Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Why must Ariens always try to give the appearance that you are getting more with their snowblowers?????For instance,Toro power max 1028OXE has a 305cc B&S engine.But Ariens has a" 305cc Ariens Polar Force Engine by B&S on their  Pro 26"Am I missing something ??I doubt B&S manufactures .a special polar force engine for Ariens lol.Also they have an ice drill manual chute control translation ...chute rotator and they have an (xs aluminum gear box )translation....aluminum gear box....Memo to Ariens your not fooling anyone into believing that yours is better  lol....That's what I like about Toro and Honda they keep it simple and their products speak for themselves....

mikiewest wrote:

Hi Mikie!

No insult or argument intended but that's exactly what B&S does for all the manufacturers. The engines are built according to the specifications ordered by the machines manufacturer be it Ariens or Toro etc. That is why if you look up the serial # on an OEM engine in the B&S engine catalog you will rarely if ever get an exact match. Most of the differences revolve around the shaft diameter and design as well as how the shaft is keyed. In the past  manufacturers stipulated cast iron bore or aluminum bore as well as other inclusions such as a gas shut off,electric start,alternator, remote throtle,fixed throtle etc..

As far as Aluminum gear boxes they are not all created equal. Compare the ones on the mid 2000 Simplicitys,Toros and Ariens  with the ones on the MTDs of the same era.It is obvious they are not all the same. Dig a little bit deeper and you will find the gear material and design as well as seals and bearings vary greatly.

Ariens is a good product and in my opinion a great company. I say this after experiencing their modification kits on my fathers 2005 926LE. They recognized two problems with the unit's design and came up with mods to address these issues. These kits were supplied to me free of charge. No insistance on me bringing the unit back to the dealer or treating me like I didn't have a clue. No denial of the existance of the problem. A simple phone call and the retro fit kits were on the way.

In addition are there any other manufacturers who allow a senior executive (Snowmann) to participate on these forums? I own a Toro Commercial grade mower which is a great machine. That being said try and get Toro to respond to any concern you might have. They have the worst consumer relations attitude I have ever experienced. 

Marc 

Maybe you missed my point.If you go to b&S website ,it's a  cc engine and rated in ft lbs.Ariens always tries to jazz it up.What the heck is a ice drill manual chute control??It's a chute rotator.And yes there r differences in aluminum gear boxes.But just state it as an aluminum gear box.The XS doesnt mean its beefier.And why does toro and Simplicity just state its a B&S engine??Only ariens pulls this crap.And if Ariens had great engineers,they wouldnt be modifying their blowers every 2yrs.If they had sound engineering,it would stand the test of time like Hondas machines. 

I agree with you Mikie.  Ariens is starting it again since it's almost snowblower sales season.  Their product line for snowblower spans from really cheap Big Box store to Simplicity equivalent.  They have everything to compete with MTD to Simplicity and Toro, which I don't agree that they should spread them out so thin, but that's just my opinion.  How is that possible?  Offer product with price ranges that can appeal to everyone's pocket, and confuse the non-critical consumers with vague features to give them a sense of value.  Just like GM in the mid 80s that slap emblems such as EFI, ABS, OHV, and Euro on their otherwise boring family cars.  Ariens is playing the same game.  Fluffy buzz words that means little to consumers.

As long as they make sales, they will continue to confuse consumers.  However, I can see that the brand erosion in Ariens.  I don't see them as having any better products than Toro's line up, despite having as much as 20 times available model configurations to chose from.  I find their product utilitarian, but otherwise boring.  Take that with a grain of salt, snowblowers are typically utilitarian and boring by nature.  There's nothing ground breaking or unique except the AMP electric products.  Maybe that's why they want to spice up their products marketing fluff.

Sorry if I offend Ariens fans.  I don't have any negative feelings towards Ariens products.  But I think they are resting on their laurels and milking the brand too long.

Mikie &aa-It's hard to enter into a discussion of this kind without sounding condescending,arrogant or self important so let me  say that is not my intent and I trust you will take my word for it.

The reality is that displacement and torque ratings (cc&ft. lbs.) don't make engines the same. How is a manufacturer to indicate their engine is different from a competitors if the engine is produced by the same vendor and has the same displacement?

Is the language used to describe the chute control a little flamboyant? Perhaps, but you & I are "into " snow removal at a different level than 99% of the rest of humanity. "Ice auger" to my mind simply indicates that the chute control will work even in iced up conditions. If you ever owned a machine where this wasn't the case you have no idea what a "pita" that is. More importantly how is a manufacturer to indicate a difference in their machine other than to bring it to the attention of the consumer by using language that says"Hey,look at this". 

I am far more offended by Toro's fairy tale of not having shear pins and insisting that their gear box will survive anything. They simply put the pins in a non traditional place in the drive system and call them by another name. Their "Game Boy" plastic chute control has evolved into a machine that is more plastic than steel. I for the life of me can't understand why this has been accepted as being a good thing. Yes it works ok in powder conditions but try it on a Cul De Sac in the North East where the plows leave the EOD in what ammounts to an icy glacier 10' wide. There -not so good. The plastic dosen't hold up.

I know this  comment is going to bring rain but having purchased a Honda for my Brother In Law as a house warming gift and both using and working on it I would never buy another. The engine and drive are first rate but the chasis is under designed for use in areas  as described above. They also refuse to change the design so that it is comfortable for an operator over 5"8"tall and the charged for handle extensions offer very little in the way of relief. Tracks are great until you have to make a turn and wrestling one around a garage is no fun. Users with gravel drives have complained forever about them digging in and Honda's response has been to offer an accessory set of skids(extra charge) with reportedly mediocre results.This brings us to their wheeled machines which have no differential available  and for what you get are perhaps the lowest value of any unit on the market.

I don't think Ariens units are perfect but do appreciate the fact they produce a machine for every user from budget to Pro. They also keep parts availability current for units that are ancient by OPE standards and are available everywhere, They also provide after market parts through their Stens subsidiary which is a great alternative for those of us trying to keep antique machines of all brands running.

I could continue but run the risk of being labeled an "Ariens Toady". Let me close by saying  because they  sell their budget lines through box stores where set up and service is suspect their reputation has taken a hit. I am sure they are aware of this but weighed against the current forces in the market  they have determined it necessary to stay in business. Who am I to question that decision? The market will dictate the wisdom of their decision and from what I understand they are doing pretty well.

Please excuse the rant,

Marc

"game boy plastic chute'..I like that lol.....

The sad part is that Ariens spent decades building top notch machines , developing a very good reputation and loyal following.   Now that they've stooped to throwing together sub-Ariens quality machines, it will tarnish their hard earned reputation.  They'd be wise to pull a Chinese style marketing trick and change the name of the cheap machines to Errens. 

well mm maybe you haven't been on the ariens website recently.The sno tek uses "strong polymer chute".I will bet  my house that toros polymer chute is way more durable than ariens.But I guess pt barnum was right.So there is a market for those machines....

Just for my own curiosity, I looked at Arien's updated website.   They no longer have the THF chute (Taller Higher Farther).  The chute is no worse or better than other metal chutes of recent snowblowers.  No need to make big hoopla over nothing.

Just to ease anyone's angst about aluminum gear case, Arien's is XS heavy duty gear case.  :)  Not sure what the XS stands for (maybe Xtra Special) , but heavy duty seems reassuring tough.  :)  I'm sure that after someone claims their cast iron gear case is heavy duty, aluminum may appear inadequate.

In fairness to Ariens though, there's nothing wrong with aluminum gear case.  The durability of the auger drive system depends on more than just the material of the case. 

I'm sure that manufacturing, sales, and parts support are doing fine, but Ariens should reconsider revamping the marketing department to inject some reality and sophistication in their marketing media.

mikiewest wrote:

C'mon Mikie-Apples to apples. The Sno Tek line isn't meant to compete with the 2 stage Toros but rather to be a less expensive alternative.

May I suggest we agree to compare units from the  different manufacturers that are at the same price point. 

Marc

mml4 wrote:  
Marc,

Not to start any flame wars, but I'll say as I see it in case someone is contemplating on getting a shiny new Honda to consider carefully.  Having owned Honda's biggest two stage (HS1132), I can safely say as much as I am impressed with it's snow removing capability and the power, quietness, and smoothness of the engine, it is the machine that gives me frustration in handling as well.  The steering could use differential trigger lock in which you let one side of the tracks free wheel while the other is powered.  The side skids should be longer and wider to allow the bucket to float over pavement or road surface irregularities. 

As far as the handle height, I find it is perfect for me.  However, the handle could use another 5 inches further back behind the rear wheels and spaced wider apart to give me more leverage.  Toro has this just right, IMO.  Push the handle down and the bucket just rise effortlessly.  Push the handle left and right and the bucket changes direction instantly.  I also like Toro's "gameboy" QuickStick chute control, despite being plastic.  It is quick alright, but has nowhere the precision of a geared chute control. 

If and when Yamaha markets and sells their snowblowers in the US which offer these features that makes it more friendly, I'd gladly trade in the Honda for a Yamaha.  Honda hasn't seen serious competition lately so they won't listen to customers and change a thing.  Rest assured, the Honda you buy in 2005 is the same as one in 2010.  The Honda kicks butt when it comes to throwing snow where you want it.  But it also demands physical and mental concentration so that it doesn't start taking you over and dragging you along for a walk.  It is a 250 lb mechanical bulldog.