Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Why must Ariens always try to give the appearance that you are getting more with their snowblowers?????For instance,Toro power max 1028OXE has a 305cc B&S engine.But Ariens has a" 305cc Ariens Polar Force Engine by B&S on their  Pro 26"Am I missing something ??I doubt B&S manufactures .a special polar force engine for Ariens lol.Also they have an ice drill manual chute control translation ...chute rotator and they have an (xs aluminum gear box )translation....aluminum gear box....Memo to Ariens your not fooling anyone into believing that yours is better  lol....That's what I like about Toro and Honda they keep it simple and their products speak for themselves....

mikiewest wrote:

Hi Mikie!

No insult or argument intended but that's exactly what B&S does for all the manufacturers. The engines are built according to the specifications ordered by the machines manufacturer be it Ariens or Toro etc. That is why if you look up the serial # on an OEM engine in the B&S engine catalog you will rarely if ever get an exact match. Most of the differences revolve around the shaft diameter and design as well as how the shaft is keyed. In the past  manufacturers stipulated cast iron bore or aluminum bore as well as other inclusions such as a gas shut off,electric start,alternator, remote throtle,fixed throtle etc..

As far as Aluminum gear boxes they are not all created equal. Compare the ones on the mid 2000 Simplicitys,Toros and Ariens  with the ones on the MTDs of the same era.It is obvious they are not all the same. Dig a little bit deeper and you will find the gear material and design as well as seals and bearings vary greatly.

Ariens is a good product and in my opinion a great company. I say this after experiencing their modification kits on my fathers 2005 926LE. They recognized two problems with the unit's design and came up with mods to address these issues. These kits were supplied to me free of charge. No insistance on me bringing the unit back to the dealer or treating me like I didn't have a clue. No denial of the existance of the problem. A simple phone call and the retro fit kits were on the way.

In addition are there any other manufacturers who allow a senior executive (Snowmann) to participate on these forums? I own a Toro Commercial grade mower which is a great machine. That being said try and get Toro to respond to any concern you might have. They have the worst consumer relations attitude I have ever experienced. 

Marc 

Maybe you missed my point.If you go to b&S website ,it's a  cc engine and rated in ft lbs.Ariens always tries to jazz it up.What the heck is a ice drill manual chute control??It's a chute rotator.And yes there r differences in aluminum gear boxes.But just state it as an aluminum gear box.The XS doesnt mean its beefier.And why does toro and Simplicity just state its a B&S engine??Only ariens pulls this crap.And if Ariens had great engineers,they wouldnt be modifying their blowers every 2yrs.If they had sound engineering,it would stand the test of time like Hondas machines. 

I agree with you Mikie.  Ariens is starting it again since it's almost snowblower sales season.  Their product line for snowblower spans from really cheap Big Box store to Simplicity equivalent.  They have everything to compete with MTD to Simplicity and Toro, which I don't agree that they should spread them out so thin, but that's just my opinion.  How is that possible?  Offer product with price ranges that can appeal to everyone's pocket, and confuse the non-critical consumers with vague features to give them a sense of value.  Just like GM in the mid 80s that slap emblems such as EFI, ABS, OHV, and Euro on their otherwise boring family cars.  Ariens is playing the same game.  Fluffy buzz words that means little to consumers.

As long as they make sales, they will continue to confuse consumers.  However, I can see that the brand erosion in Ariens.  I don't see them as having any better products than Toro's line up, despite having as much as 20 times available model configurations to chose from.  I find their product utilitarian, but otherwise boring.  Take that with a grain of salt, snowblowers are typically utilitarian and boring by nature.  There's nothing ground breaking or unique except the AMP electric products.  Maybe that's why they want to spice up their products marketing fluff.

Sorry if I offend Ariens fans.  I don't have any negative feelings towards Ariens products.  But I think they are resting on their laurels and milking the brand too long.

Mikie &aa-It's hard to enter into a discussion of this kind without sounding condescending,arrogant or self important so let me  say that is not my intent and I trust you will take my word for it.

The reality is that displacement and torque ratings (cc&ft. lbs.) don't make engines the same. How is a manufacturer to indicate their engine is different from a competitors if the engine is produced by the same vendor and has the same displacement?

Is the language used to describe the chute control a little flamboyant? Perhaps, but you & I are "into " snow removal at a different level than 99% of the rest of humanity. "Ice auger" to my mind simply indicates that the chute control will work even in iced up conditions. If you ever owned a machine where this wasn't the case you have no idea what a "pita" that is. More importantly how is a manufacturer to indicate a difference in their machine other than to bring it to the attention of the consumer by using language that says"Hey,look at this". 

I am far more offended by Toro's fairy tale of not having shear pins and insisting that their gear box will survive anything. They simply put the pins in a non traditional place in the drive system and call them by another name. Their "Game Boy" plastic chute control has evolved into a machine that is more plastic than steel. I for the life of me can't understand why this has been accepted as being a good thing. Yes it works ok in powder conditions but try it on a Cul De Sac in the North East where the plows leave the EOD in what ammounts to an icy glacier 10' wide. There -not so good. The plastic dosen't hold up.

I know this  comment is going to bring rain but having purchased a Honda for my Brother In Law as a house warming gift and both using and working on it I would never buy another. The engine and drive are first rate but the chasis is under designed for use in areas  as described above. They also refuse to change the design so that it is comfortable for an operator over 5"8"tall and the charged for handle extensions offer very little in the way of relief. Tracks are great until you have to make a turn and wrestling one around a garage is no fun. Users with gravel drives have complained forever about them digging in and Honda's response has been to offer an accessory set of skids(extra charge) with reportedly mediocre results.This brings us to their wheeled machines which have no differential available  and for what you get are perhaps the lowest value of any unit on the market.

I don't think Ariens units are perfect but do appreciate the fact they produce a machine for every user from budget to Pro. They also keep parts availability current for units that are ancient by OPE standards and are available everywhere, They also provide after market parts through their Stens subsidiary which is a great alternative for those of us trying to keep antique machines of all brands running.

I could continue but run the risk of being labeled an "Ariens Toady". Let me close by saying  because they  sell their budget lines through box stores where set up and service is suspect their reputation has taken a hit. I am sure they are aware of this but weighed against the current forces in the market  they have determined it necessary to stay in business. Who am I to question that decision? The market will dictate the wisdom of their decision and from what I understand they are doing pretty well.

Please excuse the rant,

Marc

"game boy plastic chute'..I like that lol.....

The sad part is that Ariens spent decades building top notch machines , developing a very good reputation and loyal following.   Now that they've stooped to throwing together sub-Ariens quality machines, it will tarnish their hard earned reputation.  They'd be wise to pull a Chinese style marketing trick and change the name of the cheap machines to Errens. 

well mm maybe you haven't been on the ariens website recently.The sno tek uses "strong polymer chute".I will bet  my house that toros polymer chute is way more durable than ariens.But I guess pt barnum was right.So there is a market for those machines....

Just for my own curiosity, I looked at Arien's updated website.   They no longer have the THF chute (Taller Higher Farther).  The chute is no worse or better than other metal chutes of recent snowblowers.  No need to make big hoopla over nothing.

Just to ease anyone's angst about aluminum gear case, Arien's is XS heavy duty gear case.  :)  Not sure what the XS stands for (maybe Xtra Special) , but heavy duty seems reassuring tough.  :)  I'm sure that after someone claims their cast iron gear case is heavy duty, aluminum may appear inadequate.

In fairness to Ariens though, there's nothing wrong with aluminum gear case.  The durability of the auger drive system depends on more than just the material of the case. 

I'm sure that manufacturing, sales, and parts support are doing fine, but Ariens should reconsider revamping the marketing department to inject some reality and sophistication in their marketing media.

mikiewest wrote:

C'mon Mikie-Apples to apples. The Sno Tek line isn't meant to compete with the 2 stage Toros but rather to be a less expensive alternative.

May I suggest we agree to compare units from the  different manufacturers that are at the same price point. 

Marc

mml4 wrote:  
Marc,

Not to start any flame wars, but I'll say as I see it in case someone is contemplating on getting a shiny new Honda to consider carefully.  Having owned Honda's biggest two stage (HS1132), I can safely say as much as I am impressed with it's snow removing capability and the power, quietness, and smoothness of the engine, it is the machine that gives me frustration in handling as well.  The steering could use differential trigger lock in which you let one side of the tracks free wheel while the other is powered.  The side skids should be longer and wider to allow the bucket to float over pavement or road surface irregularities. 

As far as the handle height, I find it is perfect for me.  However, the handle could use another 5 inches further back behind the rear wheels and spaced wider apart to give me more leverage.  Toro has this just right, IMO.  Push the handle down and the bucket just rise effortlessly.  Push the handle left and right and the bucket changes direction instantly.  I also like Toro's "gameboy" QuickStick chute control, despite being plastic.  It is quick alright, but has nowhere the precision of a geared chute control. 

If and when Yamaha markets and sells their snowblowers in the US which offer these features that makes it more friendly, I'd gladly trade in the Honda for a Yamaha.  Honda hasn't seen serious competition lately so they won't listen to customers and change a thing.  Rest assured, the Honda you buy in 2005 is the same as one in 2010.  The Honda kicks butt when it comes to throwing snow where you want it.  But it also demands physical and mental concentration so that it doesn't start taking you over and dragging you along for a walk.  It is a 250 lb mechanical bulldog.

aa- Your comments regarding handle placement and balance are spot on.I have the last generation TroyBilt before MTD took them over. The machine was built for them by Bolens and is an 824. It weighs 290LB. but is so well balanced you would never imagine it was that heavy. 

Having experienced a machine with a differential I would never consider one  without it.

Another item rarely dicussed is  tires. I changed out  Carlisle Snow Hogs for a set of X-Tracs at a friends suggestion. The difference is day and night. I've had machines with chains in the past and can honestly say the X-Tracs are every bit as good. This with the added bonus of not having damage to the black top or concrete.

92 degrees here on Long Island and I'm dreaming of snow-

Marc

get ready mm hurricane ed is coming fri to L.I.

mml4 wrote:

Not necessary Marc. The Sno-Tek chute is equal or better than the Toro PowerMax chute. The main chute body is made from virgin high-end (6.9 melt index) HDPE with a -105F brittle temperature and .180" wall thickness. Most plastic chutes are .125 or .150 (the Toro PowerMax chute is however equal in thickness at .180"). Also, every attachment point on the Sno-Tek chute is reinforced with steel backing plates (also with a steel hinge and 17 steel rivets, not depicted). The deflector cap and handle are also made from steel (steel parts are shown in yellow). This is not the case on the Toro.

Along with extensive field testing, this chute was impacted 90,000 cycles with a pneumatic cylinder at -15F with no damage, then impacted repeatedly with a .50" steel ball shot from an air tank/gun at 100psi at -15F with only small surface dings resulting (air gun fixture pictured). No cracks, no shattering. The old timers here on this forum might remember that this was not the case with the early PowerMax chutes and impeller housings (~2004?).

As mentioned above, the price disparity between the Sno-Tek and PowerMax isn't small. The Sno-Tek line top to bottom costs roughly half of the Toro PowerMax line, yet still posses an equivalent (or better) chute. Mikie, in lieu of you forfeiting the deed to your house (we can't leave you homeless), please leave a dollar or two in the nearest Children's Hospital donation can when you see one ;-)

  

You are correct once again snowmann.The plastic chute is sooo good that Ariens has it on all their machines like Toro haha haaa.How do you know what tests Toro conducted on their chutes??So now you work for Ariens and Toro??Snowmann instead of your company wasting $$ on some geek in a suit coming up with fancy names ,i.e. ice drill manual chute control,THF chute(I think all companies now have machines with taller chutes LOL),Polar Force Engine...what the heck is a polar force engine??I dont know.Does anyone know??B&S doesnt know..Oh yea your geek in suit came up with that lol.Ariens should ask themselves cant we build a machine that doesnt need modifications every year??Does your company have all the engineer graduates with 1.5 gpa's??What is it, everytime your co puts out a machine ,the engineers say darn we forgot to add that piece.Oh well we will add it next yr and give it a cool sounding name lol.

Truthfully, Mikie sounds like some sort of middle or high school child. I wouldn't waste too much time trying to convince someone like him that he is wrong, it'll just turn into more childish mud slinging. I think we all acknowledge that Ariens makes a good product, and that every company has their little naming quirks to try to make something as boring as a snowblower and its components (to the mainstream) sound interesting and unique to get the sale.

well jviera thats your opinion.Its sad that u actually think that the sno tek chute is as good as toros.I guess u also work for ariens lol.And you are also privvy to toros testing of their chutes...

I have a Toro 1028 with the joystick and yeah the chute is plastic but durable and according to my local dealer they don't really break unless you hit it with something.

I can't speak about brands i haven't owned but I've seen some plastic chutes on machines in Home Depot that looked ultra cheap.

All the companies make Low, middle and high end machines. So I seriously doubt that a $200-300 snowblower will equal a $1,300 snowblower. You tend to get what you pay for.

I like everything about the Toro 1028 I have. Honda has screwed itself by not putting a differential lock on their machine IMO.

If you like Sno-Tek or whatever brand buy it. But if it doesn't work as well as other brands well.....

I like Toro, Honda, and Yamaha. Ariens has dissapointed me wit their reduction in quality from what I saw at the dealer.

Oh and they sold out of Toro before Ariens. That doesn't mean Ariens isn't good but it does offer some things the Ariens doesn't.

In that price range they  are all pretty darn good machines.

Vote with your wallet. :)

Mikie, I didnt say anything about the SnoTek machines... I simply commented on your immature posting style and the fact that a similarly priced Ariens is every bit as good as a Toro. SnoTek units are cheaper than equivalent Toro units, so you really cant compare them fairly... they have their place. I'll take the metal chute over the plastic one on the Toro, and the control on the Ariens I just feel like will work in icy conditions better than the joystick. Ive seen stories of those joysticks freezing up from time to time. I think Toro makes a good unit, as well as Ariens. Mikie's bashing of Ariens is about their naming conventions and a pitiful apples to oranges comparison between SnoTek (budget) models and Toros models which are in the price range of the higher end Ariens series.

jviera1298 wrote:

Honestly I don't see how the Toro is going to freeze up after using mine even in freezing rain. Maybe a few might freeze up but that's because water got into the cables and that can happen with any machine.It's an easy fix just spray some stuff into teh cables and the water is gone and retighten. I also disagree with the metal chute is better, it's not. The plastic sheds sticky snow better. Plastic nowadays doesn't mean cheap and breakable any more. I'll take the Toro plastic chute over the metal chutes on any brand.

Mikie boy, You are way over the top and out of your league. Chill out and find something productive to do. You hardly can make any convincing discussion other than juvenile knee-jerk ramble.

I owned two 10 h.p. Craftsman machines for over twenty years.  The plastic chute was the last of my concerns.   The first machine rattled itself to death in ten years but I bought it used from a brother-in-law and it had seen lots of hard service and little maintenance.   The second machine I bought new and put a solid ten winters work on it with no real issues other than metal fatigue cracking primarily at the welds and shearing of the drive wheel axle pins in its latter years.  The plastic chutes on those machines held up fine other than the entire chute would fall off of the first machine if I used it in heavy wet snow.   There's really no comparison between those Craftsman machines and the Simplicity I have now.  The quality of the Simplicity is heads and shoulders above the Craftsman machines and the price difference between the two was only $300.00.   From what I see, the Simplicity offers twice the machine for the $300.00 premium.   The Simplicity is an outstanding value.  Too bad they're not making them as well either.  It seems that all the domestics are sliding down the quality scale.

how does ariens track system compare to hondas?

mikiewest wrote:
A bit off-track from current topic (pun intended), but here's the link:

http://www.abbysguide.com/ope/discussions/34096-A-1.html

Also, ask coldfingers about his Ariens tracked.  I think he's the only one on this forum that still has this snowblower.

There's a $600 retrofit kit to convert wheeled to track.

borat wrote:
Or Sno-Tek??  Good call, brother!