Abby’s Guide > Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) > Discussions > Diagnosing a (new to me) 2-stoke engine for trouble
Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions |
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Underdog
Joined: Oct 18, 2008
Points: 332
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Diagnosing a (new to me) 2-stoke engine for trouble
Original Message Mar 16, 2010 9:22 am |
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How do you diagnose a 2-stroke to find out if someone ran straight gas through the engine and wrecked it? I found a Toro snow commander snow thrower (see photo). I've never used a toro single stage so I thought I would snatch it up. The previous owner said that it did not run. Apparently it ran last year but not very well. Looks like it sat out in the rain most of its life. That's all I have to go on. At 24" the blower is wide for a single stage and very heavy (over 100 lbs). The 7hp engine appears to be the same InTek 2-stroke as the Toro 3650 and 2450. I noticed that it does have an electric start feature. Now that the blower is sitting in the garage, I realize how large it is. Think "single stage monster." A very odd beast, a mass of red plastic. Toro only sold these (model 38602) blowers for a few years (2001, 2002, 2003, ?) with a list price of $960 US. There was a Toro recall in 2006 for 2001 and 2002 models. This one is a 2003 model. I don't think they were very big sellers (expensive, hard to handle, too many parts). I don't have any experience with 2-strokes so this is a new adventure for me. Is there an easy way to determine if someone ran the engine with regular unmixed gas and ruined the engine? Would I notice anything when pulling the starter cord? I thought I try to rule that out first if there was an easy way to do so.
This message was modified Mar 16, 2010 by Underdog
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friiy
Location: Las Vegas, The Desert
Joined: Apr 12, 2008
Points: 600
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Re: Diagnosing a (new to me) 2-stoke engine for trouble
Reply #31 Mar 19, 2010 10:25 pm |
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I agree on alot of what you guys are saying about oils..... All 2 stokes require the same lube requirements, oil are of diffrent quality... Opti oil 2 (I remember the original)... 100:1 mix Is a GREAT oil... The problem is sloppy mixing of fuel... If you have a guy working for you that does not check the ratio of the oil to gas as he mixes it, ( mixing too little oil or too much fuel).. you may have mixed fuel that falls short of the 2 stoke engine's needs.. at about 1.7 oz per gallon, a small error gan make a the fuel mix around 140:1... When Opti oil was big news 20 years ago, I went to a few oil shows and asked some questions ... Most oil suppliers told me they could / have made their oils 100:1 or even 200:1 (some using Murcury metal) , but the consumer will not follow directions closely enough to protect the equipment, and packaging for one gallon mix containers is wasteful... Hence, a 40:1 or 50:1 ratio is widly accepted as OPE norm and hard to screw up for the end consumer. -Friiy
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borat
Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692
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Re: Diagnosing a (new to me) 2-stoke engine for trouble
Reply #33 Mar 20, 2010 10:51 am |
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At those kind of engine speeds, with proper lubrication, that engine should last forever. I've got 35 year old, vintage, two stroke Yamaha twin cylinder motorcycles that have the rev limiter set at 10,000 rpm. They can spin up to that speed without hesitation and being as old as they are, that should be a testament to their durability.
The small individual oil bottles might be appealing but you might want to compare the price of their contents to that of a quart or a gallon of high quality two stroke oil. For your application, having one two cycle machine, it might be worth while using the small bottles. However, a small plastic measuring cup or calibrated turkey baster will readily measure your oil requirements. Many two stroke oil bottles have a mixing scale printed on the rear label. It's handy if the quantities they have printed match your mixing needs. Otherwise, you'll still have to do some converting. For those with multiple mix requirements, a custom made chart would be handy.
Now that you have your carburetor sorted out, I recommend you pull the muffler off for an inspection and cleaning if necessary. Some two strokes have a fine spark arrester screen in them that tend to clog up over time. It's unlikely that there would be a need for one on a snow thrower but you might want to take a look nonetheless. I know you had your machine running nicely already so, the exhaust is probably fine. After a period of storage, you never know what what take up residence in a muffler.
Several years ago I had left my old Suzuki ATV at camp unused for several weeks. When I went to fire it up, it was reluctant to start. Very unusual for this machine. After a minute or so of intermittent cranking at full choke and full throttle, the machine began to occasionally pop. I cranked it over for a good ten seconds straight with it popping with regularity. Suddenly there was this big "kaboom" and the engine started. When the blast occurred, I saw something flying out of the back of the machine, out the garage door and onto the ground. It was a mouse nest with three half grown mice rudely scattered about in the driveway!
I'm assuming that the explosion was caused by raw gasoline accumulating in the header pipe and being ignited by flames from one of the engine pops. Either way, it certainly cleared the exhaust system.
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lenl
Joined: Feb 27, 2011
Points: 3
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Re: Diagnosing a (new to me) 2-stoke engine for trouble
Reply #40 Feb 28, 2011 12:05 am |
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It's been a year now, how's it running? I recently got a very similar unit (CCR 2450 - 38413) with the R Tek 5hp for free but the thing won't stay running. After the first time you start it, it will run under a load for several minutes and then die (can't do anything to save it like primer or choke). On subsequent startups it will die very quickly. This is why I got it for free. The guy I bought it from said it worked perfectly but was leaking gas before he brought it in for service at Acme tool. Acme found the recall with the cracked gas tank and replaced. When my friend received it, it wouldn't run. Then Acme rebuilt the carb and it still wouldn't work. The tech at Acme said that it was due to low compression ~100 psi and it should be 130. Now it's in my lap. I've pulled the carb apart and looked for anything outside of the ordinary, cleaned it and put it back together. I noticed remains of a sticker around the pilot-jet but finished cleaning the carb and replaced. It ran exactly the same, no joy. Recaling the tape remains around the pilot jet, I put a piece of tape over the pilot jet.. It worked perfectly, for about 10-15min (much longer this time) and then died again. Now it's possible the tape came off?? What did you do with yours? Did you have to tape over that pilot jet? In this discussion forum thread I've seen someone suggest that you don't have to cover the pilot jet but I've also seen in the R tek service manual that it's one of the differences between the R Tek engine and the DuraForce engine. What did you do?
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