Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Hi. My name is Krzysztof and I'm from Poland (Europe). I just got Ariens snow blower from my friend and after 2 hours of snow blowing machine stopped working. It was strange to me that muffler is red after few minutes and engine was not perfectly running but my friend said its normal. It was also weak for me, it went down every time I drove into 8inch of snow (not ice mountain ;) ). Today i checked spark plug, it was dirty but after cleaning it produces strong sparks. I turn round crankshaft couple of times and piston was not moving (i thing it should), i saw only one valve going up and down, i was unable to see other one cause spark plug hole is too small. When I try to start gas is going out from carburetor ( there is no air filter ?!?!?!) Please help me to identify Ariens model cause rear sticker is damaged.

Here's what I was able to read:
-engine Tecumseh
model # H70-130210D
ser 8305C
-front sticker
model# 7-10-m
serial# 26156
-rear sticker
model# 10M ?????
serial# 15192 

photos  Here

Sorry for my poor english and thanks for any help.

Serviceman: "Yes I changed the oil and spark plug, lubed everything up, and inspected the belts like you had requested. One quart of oil at $10.00, one spark plug at $8.00, and both belts needed replacement, they're $30.00 each, labour was 1.5 hours for that at $80.00./hr. is $120.00. Considering the age of your machine, I thought it best to check the points and condenser. They looked alright but considering I had the machine in the shop, I thought it would be best to change them. Let's see now..., yeah...., parts came to $19.95 and the labour was,.....ah yeah,,,....2 hrs. labour is $160.00, plus shop fee of $8.00. So, your oil change and tune up comes a grand total of only $385.95 plus taxes......" Some habits are hard to break......

The situation here is the guy has opened up his machine and taken off the stator. It would be remiss to not change the condenser and unless they looked almost new the points also. He’s doing his own work and the cost trivial. Service guys don’t nilly-willy check under the flywheel points. I have never read or heard of that as a check during service, never. What’s with the fantasy? This week I changed out the condenser and points on three old H70’s. All were running before disassembly that was done because of broken rods. It would have been numb not to change them out as they were right there and the cost so inexpensive. All were worn and partly pitted as is the case with everyone I’ve ever opened except one which had almost new points. I check them by looking.

     Yes, the cost is trivial,  the seal is being replaced,  which is have half the problems with Tec.  points.   We are not talking about Briggs points  which is have the plunger that can leak or wear also (twice as much to wear...)....  Points if they are set right and clean when last replaced will last  A LONG Time......  condensers last a LONG Time ....  I have Two Bendix magnetos on my Cessna,  each is running 6 plugs on 1 set of points.   I do more damage to the magenetos and points "checking them" per the manual then I put wear on them...  The condensers on the plane are 20 years old,  the points are about 22 years old,  And there is no need to change them untill there is a problem..  The condensor/ cap is more of a problem than the points...

     Also, the guy is in Poland,   putting together a engine that parts are getting harder to get for.  If it's a concern, replace ALL points with electronic ignition...

I don't paint engines,  I don't do valve jobs on engines that don't need it,   I don't put rings in engines "just because it's open".   Everything has a service life and everything is repairable for a cost...

100% no failure rate is overbuilt and too expensive,  I have a feeling that the points in the engine will last as long as the seal he is replaceing on the crank...

My rant,

Friiy

1.Refocusing the point:

The issue was asking how someone could tell points were or were not required by looking at a photo of the edge of a set of points.

2.Addressing the morph into maintenance philosophy:

Friiy – your point has been points last a long time so don’t replace them. Wait for failure. Fine if we’re talking about an engine being worked on for a carb or replacing a pull rope. But if the engine is being opened for some reason and the points exposed it would be irresponsible to not check the points by looking. What might be missed here is the engine the poster is working on is about 42 years old.

Just about all of these old timers I open have points that are pitted, welding or wear. If I’m in there for some other reason and the points show wear I replace them. The engines I do this type of work on are usually 30 to 45 years old, all Tecumseh with a Briggs here and there. For these older engines with a broken rods I replace the rings as a given and lap the valves. Condensers on all of them get replaced along with the points unless just about new. I don’t do general repair work for people. The work is on engines I own and will use later on snowblower bodies. It’s very typical of the older better machines for the bodies to outlast their engines. There’s a lot of great Ariens bodies with tired engines and lots of them with broken rods. If the bores meet spec they get “rebuilt”. I could save a bunch of time and money to just replace the broken part, put the thing together and sell it. The buyer would never notice anything. He’d have a running working snowblower that worked fine. What I try to do is get a machine that will last a minimum of 5 years, body and engine. When doing a fix on an engine I replace anything that might fail in the future. The same with the body.

>>For you, Friiy, “If it's a concern, replace ALL points with electronic ignition...”

Fine, that’s your take. Points are very available and can last 20 years so for me regular points are fine.

 >>I don't paint engines, I don't do valve jobs on engines that don't need it, I don't put rings in engines "just because it's open".

Some people do preventative maintenance depending on the situation. It seems you’d wait until something is broken. If that works for you fine.

 >>I have a feeling that the points in the engine will last as long as the seal he is replaceing on the crank...

The points in there could be original and 42 years old. I would not be so confident they would last another 20 but I’d check by looking.

   I  have always understood that points don't "go bad" and wear, condensers go bad, cause arching, and then ruin points..

      Always check/look at the points,  and he will have to gap them after the seal.....   but to change them for age is over kill.   The only thing I really believe is to "shot-gun" parts or maintence is a waste of money and time..  Only one problem keeps a engine from starting one day to the next,  anything else is Preventative Maintenance (which I do believe in, it's my livelihood on aircraft).. 

--But people say on this forum every day "It won't start--- I put  a new plug, wire boot, cleaned the carb, ran Seafoam, changed oil, gapped the magneto/cleaned the magnet (?), changed the fuel line, changed the points,decarbonized the head,  replaced the flywheel key, cleaned the air filter, changed the intake gasket. and now I FIXED IT"....  -----and all I want to say is,   what was wrong?.    I think such posts do nothing for the forum,  no-one learns a thing.  The poster never new what was wrong,  and the unexperienced reader thinks that is a "Fix"... 

   I 'm not building museum pieces nor am I falling in love / sleeping with equipment.. 

Problems have symptoms,  cause and effect.....

This isn't a pissing match,  just a point of view.....I have alot of respect for your posts/info Trouts and I find it refreshing to interact with you on the forum.  I hope I have not offended you or anyone else (it's not my intent, but I do like to poke fun-  we're all friends-right?) ----- It's just my opinion... 

Signed, cost effective maintence tech.

Friiy

Borat reporting in from Hawaii. Yes, I'm on vacation but I brought my laptop with me and good fortune has blessed us with free wi-fi in our condo. Nice... Quoting Trouts: The issue was asking how someone could tell points were or were not required by looking at a photo of the edge of a set of points. "... Look at the picture of the points. The points surfaces are plenty thick, indicating very little wear, flat and making perfect contact. For all intents and purposes, they look virtually new. I've seen many sets of points that looked much worse and still functioned flawlessly. I didn't tell the O.P. to ignore them. I specifically stated to inspect, clean if necessary and gap accordingly. I'd be willing to bet that those points will last as long as the engine does. I agree with Friiy. If the parts are not obviously worn or damaged and performing as intended, why change them? My neighbour at camp blew up his old 1964 Chrysler outboard several years ago and was short a motor for his boat. His kids were rowing the boat to go fishing. I had an old 1976 Johnson outboard that I stopped using a long time ago because I had bought new engines. I told my neighbour he could have the Johnson for nothing. He and the kids were pleased as could be to have a motor again. Before giving it to him, I replaced the water pump impeller, changed bottom end gear lube, put on a new fuel pump, and cleaned the carb. I popped off the flywheel and checked the points. Other than being out of adjustment, they looked fine. I did exactly as I had recommended that O.P. to do. I put the engine back together, put it on their boat and fired it right up. That engine has two sets of points that appeared to be original. To this day, the engine is running as good as new. So, what's that? 34 years on a 7000 rpm outboard motor. I'm confident that the O.P. points will be just fine.

I have to say, this is one of the best threads on here.  A lot of you guys have great experience with small engine repair, and I'm finding this extremely valuable.    Thanks very much.

I have an old, built like a tank, Snapper rear tine rototiller with a Briggs engine.  It stays in my shed and this past spring it wouldn't start.  I went through the normal diagnostic routine and discovered that it had no spark.  A new spark plug didn't resolve the issue.  So I started tearing the engine down, pulled the flywheel, and discovered that spiders had built one hell of a web all around the points and condenser.  It was a real mess.  After I cleaned everything up the points looked fine but still no spark.  For $6.24 I bought a replacement points and condenser kit, installed it, and bingo I had spark.  The problem was the condenser which visually looked good. 

As a weekend do-it-yourself guy I can tell you that getting to the points and condenser on that Briggs engine was not easy for me.  So for the nominal cost (I wasn't paying for labor) I didn't think twice about replacing any wear items behind that flywheel.  I can see both sides as I wouldn't want to pay unnecessary repair costs to fix something that was working.  But as a DIY project I can certainly see replacing hard to get at wear parts that have a nominal cost. 

So it 's a philosophical debate which means that there is no absolute right nor wrong approach.

Paul 

Didn't your Snapper/ Briggs engine have a Cover over the Points unit?  (spiders?)...

Was it the set of poionts that condenser was half the points set?... Just wondering

Friiy

friiy wrote:
Yes it has a metal cover that's attached by two screws but spiders got in it and went to town.  There were cocoon type webs the size of cotton $#%*.  I used a Briggs ignition points and condenser set #294628.  The condenser was included in the package.