Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Does these two models share the same chassis and paddle set?  The Rtek engine is the same, however, the 3650 is rated at higher HP.  Is there a REAL difference in HP?  Apparently this same engine is used in the Toro Snow Commander rated at 7 HP.  What gives?  Why 3 different HP rating for same engine?

On a related topic, how does one go about raising the HP of these 2 stroke engines?  Remove the governor and add throttle control?  How do you do that?

I haven't tested them with a tach but they sound basically identical in RPMs. Worked on the Snow Commander last night and it is definitely the exact same engine.

How much is that Snow Commander?  I'm seeing $600 for a used one in good condition in my area.  Seems a bit high. 

Seems like an interesting piece to pick up.  Those paddle set must costs about $90 in parts to replace.  Other than that, everything else seems to be very solid on that machine.

This one, bought by a friend who consulted with me and took me with him to look at it, went for $350. Apart from being very dirty (used on a grass/dirt driveway) and stored outside (some rust and fading) is in great mechanical condition with no wear on the paddles. Motor runs great but the carb was filthy (dirt enters the carb through the primer bulb if you leave them outside covered in dirt and leaves). It is BIG for a single stage - bigger than I thought. Very well built, but to be honest, I think I'd lean toward one of the 21 inchers because they use the same motor with less width/capacity to throw and they are much more "flickable". The Snow Commander (though I haven't used it in snow yet) appears to be somewhere between the flickability of a smaller toro single stage (which can be moved about like a vacuum cleaner) and the plodding, specific movements of a larger 2-stage .

I agree with you.  I prefer a smaller width with the same power.  I am not in a hurry to clear snow quickly.  I prefer the snowblower to have lots of power to move snow without feeling strained.  The Snow Commander is interesting as it is the first and last of its kind in uniqueness of design.  It is quite a sight to see in person.  Toro did went out on a limb producing this snowblower.  I applaud them for being innovative and taking risk.  However, the Snow Commander is extremely heavy and not easy to turn as other typical single stage snowblowers.  It also costs more which is why it didn't stay in production very long because of low sales.

I did some further research on the 2450 and 3650.  They both have the same auger width, same pulley and belt part numbers, so the same gear reduction from engine crankshaft to paddle.  They both use the same exact engine, with the exception of the 3650 is set to run at a couple hundred more RPM.  It's very easy to increase the RPM to achieve even the 7 HP claim on the Snow Commander.  With that said, I haven't verified that these engines use the same jets so I don't know if allowing the engine to run at higher RPM would be detrimental, as in running leaner at higher RPM.  Maybe someone can offer their knowledge on this respect. 

I'm curious to know if anyone has modified their single stage 2 stroke to run at 7-8 HP while changed the pulley down to take advantage of the additional torque while not over spinning the paddles.  I'm not sure the Toro paddle design is strong enough for this kind of power, as the center plate/bracket seems lightweight as compared to Honda HS520 or the HS621.  The Toro rubber paddles are not supported in as many places as the Honda design.  So under heavy load and higher HP, the rubber mounting holes may be ripped out since there are only 6 holes versus 9 holes on the Honda. 

The jetting on all of the snowblower r*teks I have worked on is the exact same. 47.5 pilot jet (Lawn Boys have a 37.5 which often causes a surge so alot of lawn boy guys replace them with suzuki or r*tek pilot jets), same needle/seat assembly, and same main jet (I forget the number). I don't necessarily believe that they run at a higher RPM, and if they did, simply bending your governor tab would change that. They all sound exactly the same. Also, Toro switched to the "less bolts" paddle design in recent years, so I have to assume it is an improvement - the older models had bolts the full width. The rubber is thick and fiber-reinforced like a tire, so I wouldn't worry about that much at all. Plus, if something is going to break, the auger is alot cheaper than the gearbox or crankshaft.

Changing jetting will also require air intake and exhaust efficiency improvements to gain any potential the jetting may offer. I'm certain that there would be considerable differences in engine parts if there were any real differences in power. If the machine is up to the task, adjusting the governor spring tab would be an easy route to gaining more power. I know that most two stroke engines running at 3600 rpm can handle an rpm increase with virtually no additional stress. I've got a twenty year Echo lawn mower with at 140 cc engine. I had it spinning at 6500 rpm making somewhere around 12 h.p. The engine didn't seem to mind at all. I've since set it at 4000 rpm max. which is 1200 more than factory setting. It also has a controllable throttle so I can set the speed if I want to run it slower. It cuts heavy wet grass much better at the higher rpms. If anyone is planning on adjusting their governor, they should use a tach of some sort to give them a reading of what the engine is running at wide open throttle. Mini Tachs can be had for around $25.00 USD. They're very simple to install and use. Does anyone know what rpm these R-tek engines run at in stock form?

superbuick wrote:
The Toro manual states that it is the same Rtek engine with different engine RPM for different models.  The RPM is changed by bending the tab, as  you had mentioned.  3800 RPM for 2450, 4000 RPM for both 3650 and Snow Commander.  Interesting is that 3650 is rated for 6.5 hp, Snow Commander is for 7.0 hp while both run at same RPM.  Hmm...  I guess Toro believe that you should get more on paper when you pay more.

borat wrote:
12 hp walk behind lawn mower! That is quite a hoot.  Wonder what it does to mulching.

I think I'm interested in bumping up the RPM on a two stroke engine.  Where can I find those mini tachometer? 

Yeah, the problem with all of that additional power was the additional speed. It's self propelled. That was the main reason I sped up the engine was to gain more walking speed. It was just too slow running at 2800 rpm. Now, with it set at 3600 to 4000, it's a good clip without being too fast. Here's a link to one brand of tach. Shop around, I think I've seen them close to half that price. What's really annoying with these things is that you cannot change the battery in them. They're sealed. They're supposed to last five years or so, but that doesn't impress me. Not for $40.00. http://www.jackssmallengines.com/hour_meter.cfm

I'm not impressed with the price.  These mini tach should be around $10-$20, not $40 and $60 at some places.  There's not much to them, even with a sealed battery.