Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I need help.  I took a 2 year old snowblower to a shop for repairs.  Dropped it off last spring with a mower that needed work.  Shop said they would look at it during summer after it slowed because I didn't need until winter.  They got back to me and said it needed a carburater for $50.  I approved work.  I've been trying to get a hold of them for 4 weeks.  Stopped by today and saw what kind of looked like my snowblower in a brown box.  Owner wasn't in and no one new anything about it.  They said they would call me within an hour.  4 hours later I called, got owner on phone and he said he called me an couldn't reach me.  He said that the engine has no compression and that the snowblower is worthless. 

My question... Do you have to take the engine apart to check for compression?  He said it took 1 1/2 hours and he would have to bill me $90 to put back together and it still won't work.  Or get this!  He can put out in the trash as it would cost at least $400 for an engine.  The Snowblower only cost $400. 

He also stated that I didn't put the proper mix in which probably caused the failer.

Sounds like I'm being hosed.  I take a 2-3 year old snowblower in and get nothing.

Any suggestion or advice.

Ploft

As you said. Your being HOSED. Compression can be checked without tearing down the motor. Its a ten minute job at the most.Does'nt  sound like this guy is reputable. What make and model blower are talking about. You mentioned $400.00. Sounds like a 2 stroke.

>> it needed a carburater for $50.  I approved work. 

   Hard to go broken in two years.  That’s unusual.  Did you leave gas in during the off season (plugged with varnish) or store it in a damp place (white buildup inside the carb)? 

 

>>He said that the engine has no compression and that the snowblower is worthless. 

   What did you use for oil and what was the mix?

    What’s the estimate of use in hours each season?

 

>>Do you have to take the engine apart to check for compression?  He said it took 1 1/2 hours

  Was that 1 ½ hours just for the compression test?  Or did that include evaluation, messing with the carb and the comression test?  It takes some time to unbutton those things.  I had one that to open had to start with taking off the chute before any panels could be unbuttoned.  I could see a half hour for a compression test on some of the single stages. 

 

>>$400 for an engine.

   Seems like a strapping higher hp engine like a 7hp.  What is the model of snowblower?

From the information you have provided, it would appear that you are dealing with a less than astute dealer/serviceman. Considering that you dropped the machine off in the summer and it's still in parts in a cardboard box, that should be a pretty good indicator of what type of dealer you have. On the other hand, if you have not been forthright with your instructions to the dealer and allowed your machine to be in his possession without reasonable contact on what progress he's made, you share some responsibility for your situation. A shabby dealer will have no mercy on you and you should have no mercy on them either. Get your box of parts and either bring it to someone else or try fixing it yourself. Don't know about you, but i wouldn't pay the dealer a cent for what he's done.

I had a similar problem in Massachusetts.  I took the snow blower back and repowered it myself.  bought a new engine on ebay from smallenginewarehouse.com ~ they do 'buy it now' at their list price but allow you to 'make an offer'.  I did, they accepted and I saved some bucks!  Repowering was the best experience. 

I want to thank everyone for their comments and Suggestions.

The snowblower is a Toro Gas with electric start.  It may have a 2 or 4 cycle engine. 

The repair place is telling me I can take the parts or pay $90 for him to put it back together.  I never authorized him to take it apart.  We left it at it need a carburator and for me to pick up at the End of Summer.  My fault for letting it stay there so long.  Very poor communication on his part.  Never returns my call.  I was expecting to pick it up and pay him $50 for the Carb.  Not this!

I'm thinking he used my snowblower for parts to fix something else.  So I'm going to call him out on it.  I'm going to have him put it back together and have him do it for the initial $50 check out fee.  If I have to pay $90 I will, but I will report him to BBB and Attorney General.  If he did anything unethical I call in the investigative reporters. 

Can't believe actually wants me to walk away from a 2-3 year snowblower with nothing.  I still can't figure out why he had to take the blower completely apart to replace carb.  Also can't figure out why he didn't do a compression test first.  I think he is lieing and this will make him come clean.

I'll take some blame by leaving it there this long.  I'll take blame for not getting a written estimate.  I should of known they were unprofessional by the receipt they gave me. 

I also may have caused the problem by not putting in right mixture of oil and gas or by leaving gas in.   I don't know how much damage this would cause.

Paul

Thanks Kdez,

I will look into a used engine.  I may just by a new one.  I just hate feeling like I've been taken. 

Paul

Thanks hirschallan

First to reply and your comment about engine compression helps.  I'll use it as when I speak to repair shop.

Paul

trouts2 wrote:

borat wrote:
Taking your advice and will get them to either put back together or take parts.

Thanks,

Paul

ploft wrote:

"It may have a 2 or 4 cycle engine" 

Seriously...that's a pretty important detail to know.

What did you use for oil and what was the mix?  I did a 75/25 mix of oil and gas.  But may have missed a mix.

With 2-cycle engines you mix the oil and gas together before you fill the tank.  The ratio is either 40:1 or 50:1.  I've never heard of the 3:1 ratio you mentioned.  Moreover, if you "miss a mix," the engine will likely seize, since there's no oil to lubricate the hot cylinders.

Still, by all indications, your engine did not seize, though I expect that such an oil-rich mixture would clog the carb.

It's very important to understand what kind of engine you have and what kind of fuel you should burn.  As you can see, not paying heed to these things can lead to trouble.

Overall this is an unfortunate situation for both of you.   The last thing he wants to do is halt a repair by getting to a dead end.  He’s then stuck with time in, a useless machine, a customer he know will be unhappy with some bad news and worse does not want to spend more time running up the bill to put it back together when he knows it is a dead machine. 

 

You brought him a non-running or poorly running machine which he probably evaluated as a carb issue which would be fairly reasonable and typical.  He probably would not have noticed low compression up front which is reasonable.  The smaller Toro single stages pull very easily because of compression release like no resistance but have plenty of compression.  It's fair to assume he did not know there was a compression issue when he started the carb work.  It isn’t know if exactly that happened but given the bill amounts it seems like it. 

 

He may have replaced or rebuilt the carb and had starting or running problems then realized the compression issue.  He could have then evaluated the compression and quit as going any further was pointless.  He’s now very unhappy because he’s stuck and knows you’ll be unhappy.

  

Putting the dead machine parts together would only be more expense without any purpose.  The engine is probably not apart just the case in several parts.  He may have taken off the head to check for a gasket problem or warped head.   Whatever he did it probably was some further evaluation work and not just a criminal running up the bill.   

 

Seems like you probably ruined the engine by putting in a tank full of straight gas.  For your machine that is an important thing.  A tank full of gas would probably last for three storms and running that long damaged the engine easily.

 

>>The repair place is telling me I can take the parts or pay $90 for him to put it back together.

   This is not a bad deal if I understand it right.  He’s saying take the parts and scram, no charge versus put it back together for $90.  That’s a good deal.  A better deal is ask him to toss the parts and thank him for no charge. 

 

You mentioned why didn’t he do the compression test first.   Given the problem it was more sensible to suspect a carb issue which he reasonably went for first.  He put some time in then realized there was a second issue.  That issue was a killer and him holding a bag of $#%*.

 

All in all the issue was not running the proper mix, not draining your gas then running with no mix so no oil.  You zorched the machine.  It’s reasonable he could have spent an hour between the disassembly, doing some carb work and the realizing the second problem, doing a little evaluation and stopping. 

 

Again, if the offer is just take the parts home that’s an ok deal.  Thank him.  Many dealers would charge you for the time before the dead end and add further cost if you wanted those useless parts put back together.

It would appear that the OP is unfamiliar with mechanics. Period. Not knowing the difference between a two cycle and a four cycle engine is a pretty good indicator of mechanical ignorance. Assuming that the OP mixed the fuel incorrectly or did not mix oil in the fuel at all is a little presumptive. Mixing gasoline with 25% or 30% oil would certainly not destroy the engine. I'd be surprised if the engine would run with that rich of an oil mixture. At the other end of the spectrum, it no oil at all had been added to the fuel, the chances are probable that the engine would seize in short order. There's a chance that the engine might free the piston when it cools down but, depending on damage, it might not. Accordingly, there would not be a compression issue if the engine will not turn over. Generally, a new engine that seizes will have heat deterioration on the sides of the piston. Seldom is the bore damaged unless a piston ring breaks an scours the cylinder. Being that the service man suggested loss of compression, I doubt that the engine had seized. The information provided that revealed the serviceman recommended an new carb really perplexes me. Unless the carb was physically damaged, I cannot understand why a replacement would be required. I've NEVER replaced a carb on anything I've owned or worked on. I have not come across a carb yet that was not repaired by a good cleaning or an inexpensive carb kit. I say that the serviceman is a shyster who has better skill at selecting his victims than he does repairing OPE. Get your stuff, don't pay him a freaking dime and either fix it yourself (which seems unlikely due to inexperience/lack of knowledge), or bring it to a reputable service man. Talk to people who can recommend a decent service shop. I'd love to hear a second opinion from a reputable source.

Pretty safe to say it doesen't take11/2 hours to do a compression test and certainly not worth a $90 charge.

I would like to know what make and exact model the machine is. The OP claims the unit is 2 or 3 years old. Some of the Toro 2 stroke GTS models have a 5 year GTS(guaranteed to start) certification by the manufacturer. If the shop is a  Toro Agency I would be in touch with them. Of course if  the OP ran the engine without the proper fuel mix all bets are off.  However the shop should be able to produce the seized engine.

I realize that OPE shops are not philanthropic organizations but as a matter of good will and reputation the owner needs to accomodate the OP with at least an explanation of how the situation got to this point. I also would be suspect of any shop that would suggest I leave any type of machine with them for an extended period of time. OPE shops always have a shortage of space and are generally desirous of you picking up/them delivering your machine asap. In addition when they do keep your machine it is usually outdoors in a fenced in area. Do you really want your machne stored outside for a protracted period of time? 

Marc