Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

is this a quality product.......or would i be better off for a few hundred, going with the 28" toro powermax?

The weak point in the husky product is the auger gear case and the augers them self. Not much better than MTD the bottom of the barrel. I would get the Toro no one makes a better auger gear case than Toro.

AJ

aj what makes you say that the toro has the best gear case?Better than Ariens and Simplicity's cast iron gear case?

What the case is made of is not as important as the gears. Snapper/Simplicity uses a 1/4" shear pin. Ariens uses a prestressed shear bolt (read will break easer). Toro uses a 5/16" grade 5 bolt in their large frame Power Max Models. If you use an after market shear bolt in an Ariens and something should happen to the gear case or the gears Ariens will deny the warranty (they have special markings on their shear bolts). The Toro gear case auger shaft is 1" and is the full width of the machine & a 7/8" input shaft almost bullet proof. I'm not saying that you can't damage a Toro gear case but it is a lot harder to do. All of the other's just don't compare and that includes Honda.

AJ

My impression is that the Toro auger gear case and gear is more robust than the rest. Toro is definitely taking a different approach. I'm still not convinced that having the toughest auger case/gears makes it the best snowblower, even if comes with a Dana rear end. However, there's got to be a sacrificial part that is a weak point designed to fail so prevent damage to a more expensive and less accessible part. Or there is some slipper clutch mechanism to soften the drivetrain shock. Unless Toro decided that it their engines is the cheapest component that's easy to replace.

Do tell.

I'll take a simplicity pro anyday over a Toro.Strange....of all the stores I went to,and I spoke to the mechanics not the sales people ,no one ever said that a toro was better than a simp pro .This was at stores pushing Toros.The simp pro is also in the same ball park price wise. I put my 11570e simp pro thru hell last winter and the gear box performed superbly.But one thing I do know,my machine will never crack because its all steel...no plastic.I know I know its high tech ,cutting edge blah blah blah ,blah blah plastic.You dont see Honda or Ariens using plastic.I mean we can compare part for part.Thickness,width ,depth etc.In the end Toro is behind a few brands.Maybe someone can get all the specs on both machines and we can do an objective analysis.

mikiewest wrote:
Are you referring to plastic gear case? I haven't seen a plastic gear case on a 2 stage snowblower. Not that it can't be done.

I doubt that the Simplicity is all steel. Bucket housing, steel yes. Generally, parts that are stamped, steel yes. But a complex geometry such as gear case? Steel, No. Simplicity stated that it is cast iron. A steel gear case is either machined or cast steel, both of which are highly expensive and not cost effective (profitable) to be used on a snowblower.

I don't see a problem where Toro has chosen to use plastics. It's designed well and feels solid.

aa335 wrote:

i believe he is referring to the plastic discharge chute.  however, it is a teflon material, was developed in 1998 and has been used on the toro snowblowers since 2001.  it is very strong, and only people that don't pay attention to details would think it is a weak point in the design.  It actually makes it better than the others.  snow will not freeze or stick to it, and its been in use for the last 8 years, and i've seen no complaints of cracking.  Toro was one of the first in the snowblower business, and they seem to be the best.

that's strange because toro did have problems with their plastic in the beginning.It was cracking and there was a recall on their machines.The dealer told me.And I'm referring to the frame being steel and the chute etc.Like I said,steel doesnt crack,plastic does.And you cant convince me that the plastic chute rotator is more robust than my chute rotator/deflector.

The Toro PowerMax discharge chutes are made from HDPE and have no Teflon content. They (and other PowerMax plastic parts) were made from a different polymer material when the problems ocurred on early models.

ajallen wrote:
The term you are searching for on the Ariens shear bolts is "stress relieved", not "pre-stressed". It is an annealing process to eliminate hard spots in the steel caused by the carbon content. It provides for a very repeatable and predictable shear. The Ariens Deluxe XS and Pro gear cases can easily shear the Gr5 bolts the Toro uses. They'll also snub 13hp engines if the shear bolts fail or the augers seize to the shaft. Throw some grade 8 aircraft bolts in and this will be the case (and yes, the warranty will then be void as with any non Ariens prescribed OEM shear bolt). However, just because you can put a gun on safety doesn't mean you point it at your head when you clean it, if you get my drift. A gear case replacement will metaphorically have the same painful consequence (financially) on the off-chance something fails and the warranty is expired or voided.

That said, the Toro gear case is hardly "without equal". The comparable Ariens models (XS Deluxe and Pro) use a similar sized alloy steel gear, similar 4 lead worm, similar use of EP/GL rated gear oils (versus less capable grease), similar ~1/4" casting wall, and identical diameter 7/8" input shaft and 1" output shaft. The Ariens also has a true worm/worm gear mesh where the Toro uses a worm/helical gear setup to make it easier to manufacture. You can PM mold helical teeth, but a true worm gear has to be machined (which is more difficult with a steel gear, versus the more common free-machining bronze gear). The less-than-ideal gear mesh present on the Toro creates higher localized tooth stresses (sliding point contact instead of line contact). The Ariens also uses an asynchronous "hunting tooth" design which causes the teeth to break-in over time to mate perfectly for longer life, and, in this particular case, boosts the ratio for increased capacity (39T w/4 leads versus 40T w/4 leads). This feature also further reduces tooth stress, reduces operating oil temperature, and lessens the burden on the oil's EP additives.

The top-line Simplicity gear cases are a tier below these with 2 lead worms, relatively small diameter bronze worm gears, and smaller 3/4" input shafts (hidden under some rather enlarging plastic sleeves). If you run the math on these the load carrying capability is down ~30% when compared to the equivalent Ariens gear case. The aluminum versions go without auger shaft bushings (shafts run on the housing casting) and the cast iron versions use grease instead of gear oil. They do use a "hunting tooth" design, but with 21 teeth and a 2 lead worm they effectively reduce auger RPM's when compared to others (with equal impeller speed). Given that impellers are always the capacity bottleneck, this is less desirable. These gear cases are not known to be problematic in either version (that I'm aware of). I'm not sure about the Murray style gear boxes that go on the L1226E and the Intermediate series (and the comparable Snapper bretherin), but they're probably another tier below. The questionable application in my mind is the use of the Murray/Brute style auge gear box on the 2009 L1226E with the 14" augers (this gear box has historically run only 12" augers).

The mainstream MTD's are at the bottom from a pure specification standpoint. Very small diameter bronze gears, 2 lead worms, 3/4" input and output shafts, and grease lube with no apparent serviceability capability of the lubricant. EP/GL gear oils are far better functionally but higher viscosity grease is easier to seal which is probably why there is no fill point on these.

mikiewest wrote:
There are many variables going into making a plastic part. Having problems with plastics initially is not unusual, and expected by the designers and molders. This should not prematurely fault on plastics in general. Anecdotal failures only gives us the occurence/frequency of failures. Robustness has little to do with the material itself. There are many robust designs that are lightweight and plastic. Look around. I will leave it up to you to be enlightened or call it a day.

yes you have enlightened me.Plastic doesnt crack and is stronger than steel.Are you for real?Guess what steel doesnt crack in the initial stages or ever .I guess snowmann put u(AA) and ajallen in your places about the Toro auger gear case being better than the rest.Thats the problem AA.You think you know but snowmann does know.....

Hmmm...

I'm reading and reading... But what about the " Husqvarna?" is the 14527 as good or better as the toro/ Ariens ?

I am slightly leaning toward this unit as well over the Toro 1028OXE. The Husky has the same steering settup but with a larger engine and it a bit narrower. Even snow blowers direct like the the Husky over the Toro!

get the huskvarna 14527-XLE. its only true dealers. its a monster with all the goodies...

mikiewest wrote:

Getting a bit carried away there. Steel cracks.

Bill_H wrote:
Does not, just ask the guys that built the Titanic. :)

Has anybody seen or heard any type of feedback on these Husqvarna monsters???? I'd love to know how they perform in real world conditions and over the test of time.

FrankMA wrote:
Yea, I am interested also.   I'm still trying to figure out which 2 stage to get and with the talk of the Husqvarna, it's peaked my interest.

FrankMA wrote:
One time, at band camp, I saw it on youtube.  Pretty impressive how 2" snow just get hurled out of the chute, with power to spare.  The machine could have been placed against more challenging scenario, like when Ariens put their 2 stage Snow-Tek 24" against a Toro 210 single stage in a EOD pile battle.  The music is pretty invigorating too.    The operator was had a look of discontent, but determined like a marathon runner.

Seriously though, I did see two Husqvarna snowblowers at a local dealer.  I was coming to see a Simplicity and Ariens snowblower when I spotted these Huskies parked in a corner.  Asked a salesman what it was, and why does it have that rubber flap on top?  He said it's a new line they're carrying this year.  "No one seems interested while we have the Simplicity and Ariens here so we're going to truck it to the east coast (Dec 2010) where people would snatch this up in a heartbeat".  Two minutes later, a guy came in and took it away.

The build quality seems to be in between Ariens and Toro.   With comparable features and price, the Husq models were equipped with slightly larger engines.  It had the typical friction disc drive and 6 speeds.  The bucket height seems high, more than what would be needed for large snow storms.  I had drift cutters installed on the side and seems ready to go to work.

I was neither impressed or disappointed.  These were the 27" mid models, pricing around $1200-$1400.  The dealer didn't have the higher hydrostatic models or tracks.

my dealer said that only the husqvarna "crown" series is the real deal... he said people overlook it cus its not a USA brand name! but in fact it outperforms the toro and the areins. i bought the 14527 XLS, the XLS stands for extra heavy auger with very high speed impeller, and the very famous "hydro" drive, whice is VERY useful at the EOD, cus you can adjust the speed like no other snow blower can, also the engine is left with a lot of extra power to tackle the snow, since the engine is NOT POWERING the wheels! its only powering a hydraulic pump at the same power regardless of speed. IMO its a steel of a deal. put the fact side bi side: 305 CC B&S, hydro drive, big tires ,heavy duty auger, high speed impeller, wightbar installed, drift cutters, head light, hand warmers, turn on a dime on BOTH SIDES, heavy duty skid shows, and all the other high end stuff, fuel cut off, electric start WITH A WIRE on the machine, so no ned for a extant cord, just look at it, examine it and you will say one word: WOW!!! this beast for only $1,500 WoW!! call up my dealer Precision Mower power equipment at : 845-624-2159 and ask to talk to the owner. he will spend plenty of time answering ALL questions ask. I asked hs service guys in the back abut the upper model husqvarna, they all said its a solid beast. no wonder in poland and other nations the name husqvarna is top on the list.