Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Simplicity now has gone and screwed up a perfectly reliable snowblower.Not only did they add electric chute rotator to the Large frame model; the chute deflector is also electrically controlled.Cant they just keep it simple?When your trying to clear a driveway in 30 degree temps,you dont need the doodads and the doohickeys not working.I guess B&S has a different plan than the original owner.I guess some of us just got our machines in time before they started farting them up.Hooray for the gizmos.........

I can see that there are a number of people who love to have this gizmo. Some has gone so far as to fabricate their own chute rotation and deflector using cordless drills. Will it fail when it's 30 degrees outside? Probably. When you leave your house, is there a chance that you may be "prematurely expired" in a car crash or a shooting? Probably.

Take a chance. Failures are not that bad. They are often a huge motivator to getting it right. Where's the American pioneering spirit? Have we lost all frontier to discover?

AA I'm shocked that u love gizmos soo much.Honda machines at least the ones sold in NY are gizmo-less....Thats what made them appealing to me.The money u spend on a Honda are for a great engine,hydro tranny etc etc.Not for hand warmers,electric this electric that,left and right power steering.The mechanics I spoke to say that u dont need a left and right trigger control.Its just a sales ploy.thats why I went with the simp pro.One trigger control.Look at the Honda single stage.Clean simple and powerful.Whats that little blue thing on the Toro?Looks like a little mouse that goes up and down on the handle..LOL.Give me 4 cycle or give me death but dont give me that R-Tek engine...And those Toro machines r not cheap but hey if u like all of those doo dads knock urself out.But I'd rather know that $600 spent on a honda is on what really counts... which is to gather snow and expel it well and on quality.As opposed to spending $600 on a Toro single stage.That price is for doo dads and a much cheaper engine.

Gizmos or features are intended as a convenience or to assist the operation. A snowblower is a collection of gizmos. The auger is a gizmo designed as an open helicoil with slow rotation speed to gather snow, not compact it. The impeller is a gizmo with paddles which rotates at a higher rotation speed to expel snow at a great distance. Multiple speed drive is a gizmo that allows us to efficiently match the forward speed to the volume/density of snow. Handle interlock is a gizmo that allows us change chute/deflector direction while the snowblower remains in motion. Lights allows us to see where we going at night, as well as avoid ingesting objects in the snowblower. You get the picture. You can say that the more of these gizmos are present, the greater the probability of failure. Shall we all revert to the ole reliable "metal" shovel to reduce the probability of failure down to two components? The shovel and the shoveler.

mikiewest wrote:
I actually like the left right trigger control. Although a single trigger would suffice, but you are limited to turning one way.

Again, I also like the blue quick chute on the Toro single stage. It's a little pricey for a few plastic parts and a cable assembly. However, I tried it and find it convenient and effective.

I don't have any knowledge of the R-tek 2 cycle engine. Small 2 cycle engines are fairly simple so I don't know how one can screw up making a bad one. Maybe cheap carburetor and fixed unforgiving jets to appease the EPA and CARB. I can't really say if the R-tek engine is cheap. Maybe cheaper than 4 stroke engine. Chassis built quality of the Toro seems equal to the Honda HS520, lesser than the HS621. However, I'd chose a 4 cycle engine over 2 cycle just because I like the lower noise, lower vibration, and better fuel efficiency.

I alluded to the built quality of the HS520 being less than the HS621. However, having used both, the newer HS520 throws snow better than the older HS621, and also handles better too. Lower noise, lower vibrations. The HS520 is better designed to efficiently put the power down to the auger, lighter pulley, more efficient flat belt, and better designed auger. So I can say the cliche "They don't make them like they used to". However, they made them to perform better.

mikiewest wrote:
Not exactly.

The "little mouse" just controls the chute via cable - its about the simplest thing you can imagine - less complex than gears and a knob. I've got both styles (traditional and zip chute) and the zip chute is better, hands down. Gimmicky seeming? Maybe, but when you look at the design and the simplicity, as well as the ability to fix it should it break (though there isn't anything to really break other than a cable - which is pretty unlikely), its far from a cheap gizmo.

And the R*Tek being inferior vs the little honda engine? Uh, not by a longshot. I'll keep the R*Tek for single stage use. More power, simpler, less maintenance, and less weight. Not a knock on Honda (God forbid ;) ), I love their stuff (GX engines, etc.) but some of what you posted about the R*Tek isn't spot on. I have 4 R*Teks (2 duraforces but on mowers and 2 R*Teks on snowblowers) and they're easily the most powerful OPE engines I have within that displacement range (under 250cc).

Otherwise I completely agree with you regarding gizmos - snowblowers (or anything that just needs to work, period) really aren't the place for them. I don't even really care for electric start. Today's engines are extremely easy to start, and the effort involved in getting out the cord and plugging it in is more hassle than pulling the starter handle (though the battery electric start I think is cool - no cord to plug in). The simplicity (pun intended) of the bigger Honda and Ariens 2 stages is exactly why I feel they're worth the cost. You're paying for well made, relatively basic, robust machinery that will work when you need it, every time.

My neighbor has the Toro 221 with quick chute and the R-tek engine. After seeing him use it on heavy snow on several occasions, I have to say it's a pretty gutsy snowblower. It could always use more horsepower for the end of drive pile, arg arg. However, I think it is just as good as the Honda 4 stroke of similiar age. The Toro did make quite a ruckuss of noise though.

My neighbor WORKS for Honda, so naturally all his stuff is Honda. He's got the HS520 and a 928TA. When we first moved in, he allowed me to use his snowblowers because I didnt yet have one and he was usually out plowing when it snowed, so I could do his driveway for him while he was out in return for him allowing me the use of the snowblowers.

Without question the Toro 221 is more powerful and does a better job of removing the snow than the HS520. I've used them back-to-back, both running at the same time, on the same snow. Its not my opinion - the Toro worked better. Its also a lighter weight machine. The toro isn't so much louder as it is higher pitched (2 stroke vs 4 stroke). The honda has a deeper, bassy sound to it.

The 928TA is a fantastic unit, if a bit hard to maneuver. It definitely digs in very well in big, wet, EOD stuff. However, I don't think its 2x as good as a comparably sized Ariens or Toro (it IS 2x the price!)

Thanks superbuick for your unbiased observation of the Toro versus the Honda

You effectively convinced me to buy the Toro 221 and then shoe-horn the Honda GX200 or GX240 engine into the Toro chassis.

I shall call it the Hondoro Super Snow Commander. *wink*

By the way, any reason why you have so many snowblowers at your disposal, and two Lawnboy mowers? Looks like they were stored in a time capsule. I'm jealous. You wouldn't have a Snow Commander in your arsenal, do you?

aa335 wrote:
:-)

In keeping with this thread, I got into OPE and snowblowers as a result of getting ripped off by the local small engine service place.  I grew up using snowblowers and lawnmowers as a kid but when I got my own home, I was able to use my aformentioned neighbor's equipment, and as a result didnt need to buy my own.  My Grandparents had an old single stage Toro CR20e and when my grandfather passed away it stopped getting regular maintenance.  After a few years it stopped running altogether.  I took it to the dealer/service shop to get repaired for her and 2 months and $150 later was told "we rebuilt the carb twice and it won't run, it needs a new carburetor and parts are no longer available for it.  You need to buy a new snowblower".  My father purchased a CCR2450 for my grandmother and I took the old CR20e as I got a bad feeling from the dealership/service guy (I didnt trust him) and made it my mission to fix it.  I race cars and karts so I'm fairly well mechanically inclined.  A little poking around on the internet and I found out it was a Tecumseh AH600 and I ordered a used carburetor and a rebuild kit from ebay.  Took the unit apart, read through the service manual, and realized that the unit didnt need a new carb at all - the guy never put the o-ring in where the needle seat rests - as a result it leaked fuel - something he said was the result of a cracked carburetor.  Put the o-ring in and it fired right up.  I was happy it was running and furious that the guy took my innocent grandmother for a ride.  The repaired old unit worked awesome - almost as well as the Honda I was used to.  The only thing it didn't have in abundance was power.  I mean, it had a decent enough amount, but it wasn't a stump puller.  I liked it so much that I bought a 221QR.  It was like the Honda, only better!  More power and throws the snow more efficiently (the augers on the Toro seem to be a superior shape/design)  I liked the 221QR  motor so much that I found a "non running" lawn boy on craigslist, cleaned it up and tuned/clean the carb, and got it running.  Liked that so much that I found another one on craigslist and did the same.  The 2 strokes are so ridiculously powerful and easy to work on, I've been able to expand my collection pretty quickly.  It's become a hobby for me; I'll pick up used units, clean them up, and sell them cheaply to friends or neighbors (my neighbor replaced his broken Toro with a Lawn Boy that I repaired and sold to him for a very good deal)  Lawn Boys are nostalgic to me as I love the smell and sound of them, and I remember my dad's first mower when I was a kid was a Lawn Boy.  Their light weight and awesome performance doesn't hurt either :-)

oh and that pivoting scraper on the toro 1128oxe ....was it necessary.I have heard from people where it gets stuck and now you have no scraper.Another doo dad that wasnt necessary.But hey some people love useless gizmos LOL.