Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Have you seen the junk they are now selling on the Home Depot website?It's called Sno-Tek by Ariens.It's being described as a value machine lol.Ariens will do anything to be known as the Co. that sells the most machines.They have forgotten about quality and it's all about sales.

Anyone who supports the the philosophy of producing poor quality for less money is following the lead of numerous domestic manufacturers, of which, many are on the ropes. Is this how we built our nations? Is that the philosophy that launched the U.S. to the forefront of world manufacturing dominance? Please. Our nations were built on our reputation for building quality products, mass produced for reasonable prices. Throwing together cheap crap, with built in obsolescence and pre-determined expiry dates is a recipe for failure. There are numerous North American manufacturers that can attest to that. You can only build and sell junk for so long. Someone will see that there is an opportunity to fill the void and will step in to capture that piece of the market with a better product. Unfortunately, it will likely be a foreign company and the product will be better and cost even less. Building inferior products, may, in the short run, bolster manufacturer profits and put smiles on the faces of dealerships up to their necks in broken down machines charging $82.00/hr. (still can't get over that). Even the most inexperienced consumers will eventually learn that spending a few bucks more to have a machine that spends more time working than being worked on, is worth the premium. People will pay more for a premium product if it's available. It's becoming evident that all of the domestic manufacturers are taking the short cut to easy profits. Sooner or later, we'll only have Honda and Yamaha to provide us with quality products. When that happens, I suspect the Chinese will challenge their piece of the market as well. Take good care of your old Ariens, Toros and Simplicitys. It's not too likely that you'll be seeing domestic snow throwers of that build quality again.

That's just it:  No one is going to spend $85/hr to keep a machine running when you could buy a new one every three for what it would cost to keep a decent one running. 

80% or so of people in the snowblower market can get by with an 8hp/24 inch snowblower.  That's 80% of the market.   Everybody else is not the market.   Instead of greaseable bearings/gears and strong transmissions, it makes sense for manufactures to use plastic bushings and 30-40 year old disc/belt designs.  Then every 3 years the homeowner is back buying a snowblower for full retail when the pos (which they treat like a pos) won't start.    They sell a new machine instead of a new shear pin.   This I can understand, because $500 every 3-4 years makes more sense than $2000 every 20 years BECAUSE THE NEW MACHINES WILL NEVER LAST THAT LONG!!!!!!!!!

What I hate is the idea that pro models are worth a 50% premium over their lesser bretheren.  Honda doesn't make a cheap machine, so they're the exception. ( Do I think my snowblower will last 20 years? I won't have it that long.  My last honda was a 828wa, over 10 years old and I sold it in 2 days for $700.  If I can find a nice skid steer for under 8 grand that 1132tas is going up on craigslist....Shhhhhh...don't tell the wife!) 

If I had 30' of flat asphalt to deal with, I'd be using the cheapest piece of junk I could find (in May of course) instead of pretending my Super Deluxe Pro model of the same thing was really all that much better.   

It's not only how long will the machine last but how many trouble free years will one have with the machine.I looked at the troybilts sitting at Lowes and they look like crap.I guarantee you my machine will have less problems due to the fact that I dont have plastic this and a flimsy looking auger gear case.Look at those 4 piece auger blades...very flimsy.So I might have to take my machine to the shop but it wont be for a long time.Even if I change the spark plug every year in addition to oil change and lubing,what does that come to $6/yr?I am not a mechanic and just by watching a  a video on how to change a friction disc,I feel confident I can do it.Which wont be for a long time.

Not everybody has $1500 to $2500 for a almost perfect pro snowthrower. If the nuts and bolts don't fall off like my neighbors Craftsman did or the plastic chute hood doesn't crack from ice impact and the engine keeps on running and the controls don't jam and the drive disc doesn't slip and the machine lasts 12 years instead of 30 you still have a product worth purchasing that reflects this economy. When and a big "IF" things get better in 4 years then go for a better piece of equipment.
Many small businessmen that I have spoken to are "holding their breath" in a "wait and see" mode in order to evaluate if they can afford to stay in business if the mandatory government health insurance becomes law. As an aside, if you intentionally refuse to purchase the approved gov't plan there is a $250k fine and/or 5 years in a Federal prison. In a word, many businesses are scared. SO....the less expensive machine may be your only choice if you need to preserve your wealth and still get the job done. It may seem that I went off on a tangent from OPE equipment but this issue and other political issues are closely tied to purchases such as this and need to be considered. IMO this company has positioned itself perfectly by hedging their bets.

Hi Guys!

The very fact that we post here means we are a little "nuts" when it comes to these machines. Most people feel snow removal is a pain in the a$$ as opposed to an opportunity to have some fun. That being said the vast majority of the population is not willing to spend major $ on something that may not be used at all in a given year. Ariens has to serve the market in order to survive and it appears the market is budget machines sold through big box stores.

Example-My 2 stage unit is an 8HP Tecumseh Powered  24" TroyBilt made for TroyBilt by Bolens before MTD owned those brands. It weighs 290 pounds,has a cast iron auger gear case with bronze gears,hand warmers,true differential system,massive bushings and bearings throughout,light , electric start and came with a seven year warranty. It listed at $1499 and was purchased from a local OPE dealer for $999 when he got stuck with 20 out of 24 units he took in .  It didn't snow much for two years hence his excess inventory. Tecumseh,Bolens,Troybilt and the OPE dealer are now all out of business (I don't consider the present MTD manufactured Troybilt and Bolens to be anything more than imposters playing off the reputation of once fine equiptment.). The neighborhood that the OPE dealer was in now has a Lowes,Home Depot , Costco,Sams Club,Walmart along with the Sears that was there before.

My point is consumers decide what manufacturers will produce and where they will be sold. We as enthusiasts are a shrinking percentage of the market  and it appears manufacturers can't be profitable by just catering to us.

No one forces you to buy the cut rate machine-The pro models are still available although it is sometimes difficult to find a convenient  dealer.

As far as respect for Ariens- I respect the fact they are finding a way to survive after losing their main engine manufacturer and having to buy engines from one of their competitors for their Pro units. I also repect them  for finding a way to compete against the budget machines that are flooding the market. 

Marc 

I'm a bit confused here. How do Honda and the other Japanese manufacturers manage to maintain consistent high quality and stay in business, decade after decade?

Ariens had built a reputation of having machines built like a tank.That's not true anymore.Especially when u have machines like the sno tek on the floor at home depot.They can build whatever they want ,to quench the thirst of the ill informed consumer but they still have lost my respect.And if u think I feel sorry for the small business who probably pays his employees half on the books and half off and doesnt report all his earnings to the IRS and writes off his personal car for business use etc etc...I dont.The regular citizen just gets shocked at how much comes out in taxes every week out of his check.

borat wrote:

Not sure if I am correct but I always viewed the Honda in relation to the Snow  market the way I view the Porche in relation to the automobile market. Essentially a niche unit with a very small market share.

They also sell most of their units in Japan where the American manufacturers have to contend with the protectionist Japanese import policies.

Marc

mml4 wrote:

Regardless. The point is that they've been making top notch machines for decades and have never compromised quality just to stay in business. I'm really having trouble understanding how building inferior products will lead to sustained business success? I'm not an economist nor do I have an MBA. What I do know however, is that if I do poor work, sooner or later, I won't be working at all. Being that the domestics are already dropping their production quality, using more and more Chinese components, what's to stop the Chinese from moving right in there to capture their entire market share? Thus putting the domestics out of business? The only trump card that the premium domestic manufacturers had was their build quality. If their lesser machines are no better than a Chinese machine selling for a couple hundred less, who will buy them?

borat wrote:

That's my point- It appears the industry can find purchasers for the low end machines but finds resistance for high end units.

Long Island N.Y where I live used to get enough snow every year to warrant having a dependable quality snow blower. For the past 5-10 years almost no appreciable accumulation at all. Three years ago dealers were unloading machines in January all over the Northeastern US including the big box stores  for up to  50% off list.  Now it seems those consumers  willing to buy a machine for the most part want something cheap just in case it does snow. It appears the "market " is not willing to plunk down a whole lot of $ for something they probably won't use very much. Implicit in that decision is the mindset that quality is not that important for something that will see little use.

Marc