Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Have you seen the junk they are now selling on the Home Depot website?It's called Sno-Tek by Ariens.It's being described as a value machine lol.Ariens will do anything to be known as the Co. that sells the most machines.They have forgotten about quality and it's all about sales.

I'd hold my opinion until I see it in person. I'm not too fond of Ariens marketing but I'll keep an open mind. In today's economy, everyone's got to make a buck and stay in business. It's a bold move and a risky one for Ariens to market this value product line. Die hard Arien's loyalist will balk at this one, while uninformed buyers with only brand recognition are likely to buy one since it appeal to their budget.

Personally, I think its a good move that might save their reputation. They've sucked for so long now, they might as well jump the shark completely. It was a huge mistake to sell to the big boxes in the first place, because most people don't understand the whole dealer "this amp goes to eleven" theory. 95% the same parts.

If they can pay the bills with these crappy things, maybe they can get back to making real machines.

http://www.abbysguide.com/ope/discussions/40370-0-1.html

btw...not defending them but if they made a machine that would last 20+ years...well, uhh...wouldn't they go out of business long before then?...I mean they need to keep selling stuff right...also would not the price be astronomical.  I do look forward to the review of the sno teck though....

People are willing to pay more for quality.Thats why I bought a Simplicity Pro.Also I think a company wants a good reputation for quality and reliability.Thats how you get repeat customers and also recommendations.I told my brother to look at anything but those Sears machines.He got himself a Simp. So thats how they make $$

...and if he did not need another blower for 20+ years SImplicity would have long been out of business....but I bet Sears would still be around. I am not defending it...just saying people would rather spend 1/3 less with the expectation that it lasts 8 - 10 years....or it seams thats the way things are going....hence all the brand names at the box stores...

mikiewest wrote:

Unfortunately many more people are willing to pay less for low quality..

which is what the big boxes count on..which is why we have so much low quality junk made in china..that sells great..

Scot

Anyone who supports the the philosophy of producing poor quality for less money is following the lead of numerous domestic manufacturers, of which, many are on the ropes. Is this how we built our nations? Is that the philosophy that launched the U.S. to the forefront of world manufacturing dominance? Please. Our nations were built on our reputation for building quality products, mass produced for reasonable prices. Throwing together cheap crap, with built in obsolescence and pre-determined expiry dates is a recipe for failure. There are numerous North American manufacturers that can attest to that. You can only build and sell junk for so long. Someone will see that there is an opportunity to fill the void and will step in to capture that piece of the market with a better product. Unfortunately, it will likely be a foreign company and the product will be better and cost even less. Building inferior products, may, in the short run, bolster manufacturer profits and put smiles on the faces of dealerships up to their necks in broken down machines charging $82.00/hr. (still can't get over that). Even the most inexperienced consumers will eventually learn that spending a few bucks more to have a machine that spends more time working than being worked on, is worth the premium. People will pay more for a premium product if it's available. It's becoming evident that all of the domestic manufacturers are taking the short cut to easy profits. Sooner or later, we'll only have Honda and Yamaha to provide us with quality products. When that happens, I suspect the Chinese will challenge their piece of the market as well. Take good care of your old Ariens, Toros and Simplicitys. It's not too likely that you'll be seeing domestic snow throwers of that build quality again.

That's just it:  No one is going to spend $85/hr to keep a machine running when you could buy a new one every three for what it would cost to keep a decent one running. 

80% or so of people in the snowblower market can get by with an 8hp/24 inch snowblower.  That's 80% of the market.   Everybody else is not the market.   Instead of greaseable bearings/gears and strong transmissions, it makes sense for manufactures to use plastic bushings and 30-40 year old disc/belt designs.  Then every 3 years the homeowner is back buying a snowblower for full retail when the pos (which they treat like a pos) won't start.    They sell a new machine instead of a new shear pin.   This I can understand, because $500 every 3-4 years makes more sense than $2000 every 20 years BECAUSE THE NEW MACHINES WILL NEVER LAST THAT LONG!!!!!!!!!

What I hate is the idea that pro models are worth a 50% premium over their lesser bretheren.  Honda doesn't make a cheap machine, so they're the exception. ( Do I think my snowblower will last 20 years? I won't have it that long.  My last honda was a 828wa, over 10 years old and I sold it in 2 days for $700.  If I can find a nice skid steer for under 8 grand that 1132tas is going up on craigslist....Shhhhhh...don't tell the wife!) 

If I had 30' of flat asphalt to deal with, I'd be using the cheapest piece of junk I could find (in May of course) instead of pretending my Super Deluxe Pro model of the same thing was really all that much better.   

It's not only how long will the machine last but how many trouble free years will one have with the machine.I looked at the troybilts sitting at Lowes and they look like crap.I guarantee you my machine will have less problems due to the fact that I dont have plastic this and a flimsy looking auger gear case.Look at those 4 piece auger blades...very flimsy.So I might have to take my machine to the shop but it wont be for a long time.Even if I change the spark plug every year in addition to oil change and lubing,what does that come to $6/yr?I am not a mechanic and just by watching a  a video on how to change a friction disc,I feel confident I can do it.Which wont be for a long time.

Not everybody has $1500 to $2500 for a almost perfect pro snowthrower. If the nuts and bolts don't fall off like my neighbors Craftsman did or the plastic chute hood doesn't crack from ice impact and the engine keeps on running and the controls don't jam and the drive disc doesn't slip and the machine lasts 12 years instead of 30 you still have a product worth purchasing that reflects this economy. When and a big "IF" things get better in 4 years then go for a better piece of equipment.
Many small businessmen that I have spoken to are "holding their breath" in a "wait and see" mode in order to evaluate if they can afford to stay in business if the mandatory government health insurance becomes law. As an aside, if you intentionally refuse to purchase the approved gov't plan there is a $250k fine and/or 5 years in a Federal prison. In a word, many businesses are scared. SO....the less expensive machine may be your only choice if you need to preserve your wealth and still get the job done. It may seem that I went off on a tangent from OPE equipment but this issue and other political issues are closely tied to purchases such as this and need to be considered. IMO this company has positioned itself perfectly by hedging their bets.

Hi Guys!

The very fact that we post here means we are a little "nuts" when it comes to these machines. Most people feel snow removal is a pain in the a$$ as opposed to an opportunity to have some fun. That being said the vast majority of the population is not willing to spend major $ on something that may not be used at all in a given year. Ariens has to serve the market in order to survive and it appears the market is budget machines sold through big box stores.

Example-My 2 stage unit is an 8HP Tecumseh Powered  24" TroyBilt made for TroyBilt by Bolens before MTD owned those brands. It weighs 290 pounds,has a cast iron auger gear case with bronze gears,hand warmers,true differential system,massive bushings and bearings throughout,light , electric start and came with a seven year warranty. It listed at $1499 and was purchased from a local OPE dealer for $999 when he got stuck with 20 out of 24 units he took in .  It didn't snow much for two years hence his excess inventory. Tecumseh,Bolens,Troybilt and the OPE dealer are now all out of business (I don't consider the present MTD manufactured Troybilt and Bolens to be anything more than imposters playing off the reputation of once fine equiptment.). The neighborhood that the OPE dealer was in now has a Lowes,Home Depot , Costco,Sams Club,Walmart along with the Sears that was there before.

My point is consumers decide what manufacturers will produce and where they will be sold. We as enthusiasts are a shrinking percentage of the market  and it appears manufacturers can't be profitable by just catering to us.

No one forces you to buy the cut rate machine-The pro models are still available although it is sometimes difficult to find a convenient  dealer.

As far as respect for Ariens- I respect the fact they are finding a way to survive after losing their main engine manufacturer and having to buy engines from one of their competitors for their Pro units. I also repect them  for finding a way to compete against the budget machines that are flooding the market. 

Marc 

I'm a bit confused here. How do Honda and the other Japanese manufacturers manage to maintain consistent high quality and stay in business, decade after decade?

Ariens had built a reputation of having machines built like a tank.That's not true anymore.Especially when u have machines like the sno tek on the floor at home depot.They can build whatever they want ,to quench the thirst of the ill informed consumer but they still have lost my respect.And if u think I feel sorry for the small business who probably pays his employees half on the books and half off and doesnt report all his earnings to the IRS and writes off his personal car for business use etc etc...I dont.The regular citizen just gets shocked at how much comes out in taxes every week out of his check.

borat wrote:

Not sure if I am correct but I always viewed the Honda in relation to the Snow  market the way I view the Porche in relation to the automobile market. Essentially a niche unit with a very small market share.

They also sell most of their units in Japan where the American manufacturers have to contend with the protectionist Japanese import policies.

Marc

mml4 wrote:

Regardless. The point is that they've been making top notch machines for decades and have never compromised quality just to stay in business. I'm really having trouble understanding how building inferior products will lead to sustained business success? I'm not an economist nor do I have an MBA. What I do know however, is that if I do poor work, sooner or later, I won't be working at all. Being that the domestics are already dropping their production quality, using more and more Chinese components, what's to stop the Chinese from moving right in there to capture their entire market share? Thus putting the domestics out of business? The only trump card that the premium domestic manufacturers had was their build quality. If their lesser machines are no better than a Chinese machine selling for a couple hundred less, who will buy them?

borat wrote:

That's my point- It appears the industry can find purchasers for the low end machines but finds resistance for high end units.

Long Island N.Y where I live used to get enough snow every year to warrant having a dependable quality snow blower. For the past 5-10 years almost no appreciable accumulation at all. Three years ago dealers were unloading machines in January all over the Northeastern US including the big box stores  for up to  50% off list.  Now it seems those consumers  willing to buy a machine for the most part want something cheap just in case it does snow. It appears the "market " is not willing to plunk down a whole lot of $ for something they probably won't use very much. Implicit in that decision is the mindset that quality is not that important for something that will see little use.

Marc

Why do people buy junk?  Because money doesn't mean anything to them.  Wait untill the currency falls apart and the junk starts costing money, then we'll start buying quality again.

Why do people buy junk?  Because money doesn't mean anything to them.  Wait untill the currency falls apart and the junk starts costing money, then we'll start buying quality again.

It seems to me that U.S. manufacturers have dropped the ball a bit in their own marketing.  I just bought my first blower a couple of weeks ago and didn't really know much about them.  I saw the Troy Bilts at Lowe's and was tempted to get one.  I had thought they were a quality manufacturer, not realizing that they were bought a couple of years ago by a company that cheapened the brand quality-wise to push them in quantity at big box stores.

Well, I always prefer to buy from local small businesses and so I next stopped at the local OPE shop.  He carried Simplicity and Ariens, and I could see right away that they were better quality machines.  At that point I didn't know about the specific technical things that make Ariens so good, like its 14" impeller, the bearing on the auger shaft, etc.-- the stuff that snomann lists on his posts.

True, the Lowes blowers had more bells and whistles at the same price-- things like headlights and handwarmers-- but I wanted a machine with intrinsic build quality, not a crappy POS with plastic chutes that would break or flimsy augers that would bend.

I went on Ariens website and they really didn't get into the reasons their machines were technically better than the MTB style ones.  They discussed their reputation for quality, but really gave no details.  I think that if you are going to sell against companies that appear to give more value for the buck, based on size and features, then you need to tell people why your basic machine that costs $200 more than the loaded no-name brand is actually a better value as an investment.

Ariens does still make a good product but if you want your machine to last as long as mine (1969 ariens) then you will not find one at big box store you will have to go to a  local small buiness and pay thousands for the best units what you see at home depot is not what you can get from you local supplier.I think my Dad paid about 1,400 for this unit new.

That is all on that

I would like to know if anyone have been able to free up a stuck metering rod on a tecumseh carb I think this ethonal gas is attracting water and sticking the rods on the carbs

when they set for awhile.

.

In a recession no one should begrudge Ariens for doing what they have to do in order to remain a viable independent company...and not suffer the fate of Simplicity and be bought out by a small engine manufacturer.

Paul7 wrote:

Well, I assume we can apply that same logic to the rest of the manufacturing in North America. We all can readily see what the results are when we build lesser quality automobiles. Why would that example be different from anything else being built to a lesser quality than what we had appreciated in the past? Compromising quality is a step backward. How can anyone possibly substantiate that inferior quality is a good thing? I don't get it. And when does the "build cheap" trend stop? Do we all continue to buy inferior products and allow manufacturers to continue building cheap machines to the point that they work for a month before needing repair? I've said it in the past, the Japanese don't have a problem weathering difficult times and continue to supply the market with consistently high quality products. By accepting sub-standard products, we are going back to the "good enough" syndrome that was rampant in our auto sector over twenty years ago. It's thinking like that, which permitted foreign countries to infiltrate our markets and dominate the auto industry as we know it today. Sometimes, the consumer can be his own worst enemy. Anyone who accepts mediocrity over previously well built goods is contributing to the ultimate demise of that industry. it might not happen over night. But rest assured, it will happen. Demand better!

borat wrote:

VERY WELL SAID !!!!

I bought an Ariens 1332 DLE last season (Dec 2008) after doing what I thought was quite a bit of research.  I bought my unit at a small store not the big box store and paid a lot of money for it comparatively speaking.  What I have found is that I am really disappointed with the controls, so much so that I actually sent the company an email.  As I don't have a heated storage area to put my blower in after using it, unless the temperature gets above the freezing point my controls don't work.  The  chute height adjust won't move and the chute won't rotate the culprit of course being that the cables are frozen.  I can spend just as much time messing around with the chute as I do actually blowing snow.    I phoned the dealer where I bought the machine and complained about this problem and his solution was to remove the cables and bring them inside after blowing... I don't think so. 
Another annoyance that I have found is that the blower is pictured in the brochure with a heat shield over the muffler.  Well it appears that last years model doesn't have a heat shield.  Normally this would not be a problem I imagine, but as I spend so much time fussing with the cables I invariably put my gloves on the blower and they melt to the muffler.  I've ruined two pairs of gloves like this and you would think I would have learned the first time but you get so frustrated that you forget.  Nobs have fallen off the controls and the deflector for the muffler has fallen off. 
I will concede the fact though that it does move a lot of snow with relative ease but it's all of the little nagging things that cause me so much grief while I am  trying to blow snow that leave that bad lasting impression. 
If anyone out there has a solution to the bicycle cables freezing please I would like to know about it.
Ariens never did respond to my email as well.

Try blasting some WD-40 into each end of the cables if possible. The objective is to get the WD-40 into the cable to minimize the amount of water that is in there. For your information the "WD" in WD-40 stands for water displacement. It's important to get a good splash inside the cables. Get into the habit of spraying the cables and see how that goes.

borat wrote:
Borat, I think that there is a difference between the snowthrower market and the automobile market based on where you live.   Consider this...I live in a area where I can go two years without ever needing to start my large snowthrower.  We just got 10 inches of snow in SE PA today and this is the first time in years that I needed to start my large 2 stage Ariens snowthrower.   (For the last few years all I needed was my smaller single stage Ariens 722...and on some years I didn't even need it) However someone living in the North American snowbelt or Canada needs a machine that's built well enough to handle 10 snowfall with a much greater frequency.  If manufacturers only built snowthrowers with premium components, top of the line engines, cast iron everything, and engineered to exacting standards then I'd be forced to buy a lot more machine than I need...and for a lot more money than I may want to spend.   I can get by for many years with an MTD POS if I wanted to, while you really need a snowthrower that can take a much more frequent workout...and that's the difference.

As for how the Japanese can product quality and thrive while we can't all I can say is that I once worked for a German company where long range planning was 20 years...just like the Japanese.  I now work for an American company and long range planning is 3 months...or until the next earnings update to the investment community. 

MM42, there is no excuse for knobs falling off the machine that you bought.  And there's REALLY no excuse for Ariens not replying to your email.  I became an "Ariens man" years ago when their customer service was tops in the industry.  It's troubling to learn that it's fallen off that much.

Paul7 wrote:

Not buying that argument. The point is that the manufacturers are not only supplying low grade, inexpensive models, even their premium products are being built to a lesser level of quality. I have no problem if a company wants to make a cheap snow thrower for the "occasional user". However, when their so called premium units start to show signs of compromised quality and prices remain high, I certainly do have a problem with that. No excuse for building lesser quality products and still demanding top dollar for them. So, companies that cannot develop a business plan longer than three months can use that excuse to build cheap? I don't get the connection. Sounds to me that any organization with a three month plan doesn't have a plan. That sounds more like shoe string survival. As I've said in the past, a company can rest on it's laurels until enough loyal customers realize that their loyalty is not being rewarded with the quality products they had once appreciated. Customer, by customer, day by day, week by week, their market will slowly evaporate. When that happens, even China won't be able to save them.

borat wrote:
Ever hear the expression "penny wise but dollar foolish"?  It's the same thing.  I've seen US corporations do the craziest things just to make their numbers for a quarterly earnings call.  Things that did not contribute positively to long range strategy.  One US corporation I was with years ago sold off their only growing company just to meet their earning projections for the semester.

As far as the quality not being what it should on American made premium snowblowers...I can't explain it.  If I had to try, I'd suggest that the American made top of the line machines are less expensive than the top of the line Hondas or Yamahas.   But the fact they're less expensive isn't a good explanation because I feel that any American snow thrower labeled as a Professional model should be able to take a beating and be free of the nuisance problems that I've read about on this forum.

The reduction in build quality has made me hesitant for a while. I just got tired of fixing the little things getting worn out on a 36 year old blower. It's a rather small 24" / 5HP re-labelled Gilson. But it's built like a tank. bent & pressed plate verus stamped sheetmetal, Bearings versus bushings, Cast Iron gearcase versus pot metal. The impeller alone is an exercise in overkill, yet it got bent ingesting a 2x4. However, even bent, it continued to function for many years. I doubt any current impeller would fare as well. But to get anything built as solidly today I'd have to spend $3000 to get even close.
I doubt my next blower (Ariens ST30LE or Poulan PR1330ES) will lat as long.

Thanks for the tips on cable freezing, I'll have to keep that in mind.

I just recently saw a video of those old snowblowers.  Looks like they can gobbles a lot of deep snow and have high volumetric capacity.  However, the throwing distance was fairly short, looks like the most was about 10 feet.

I don't think I want something built as tough as these older snowblowers.  I rather trade off toughness for more performance/efficiency.  Not that I need to, but there may be occasions when placing snow in the neighbor's driveway may be entertaining.

This post is for screen name MM42  I may have a trick that could fix your cable problem.You may have to wait till next season to try it but if you can get the cables dry on the inside or get a new set of cables so you could have a spare set. Let the cables soak in automotive antifreeze use antifreeze straight uncut., if you can see the antifreeze is compleatly thru the cables you shuold be good for a year of two. Using lube may work, but oil and water will still freeze inside the cable.