Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I had a honda hs828wa for 8 years and all I ever had to put into the unit was gas and oil + a few shear pins when I hit something I wasn't supposed to.  Great machine.  When I moved to my new home with a 400' driveway I figured I needed a bigger machine, and my honda was 10+ years old so what the heck.  I sold the honda for $800 (boy do they hold their value) and put that towards an Ariens that was 2 years old. 

At first I was not a fan of the Ariens, I have to say.  I wasn't prepared to have to tinker and work on this machine to make it work.  I've had problems with everthing from the electric shute not turning to augers not turning.  Belts, rehab on electic motor, wiring,  disc-o-matic/slip-o-matic, about 1/2 every time it snowed.  Some of this can be contributed to the possible impropper maintence of the previous owner, but it was a 40 yr mechanic who specialized in rebuilding clasic cars.  I saw his shop.  I don't think that's the issue.  Main issue is I expected a machine 2x as heavy to dig and scrape and push at least as good as a machine almost 1/2 its size.  It didn't.  So I kept my eye open...

Low and behold, I find a hs1132tas on craigslist for exactly what I paid for the Ariens.  I know I can get what I paid for the Ariens, so I'm going to sell it and keep the honda-BUT WAIT!!  While I'm the owner of these two snow devils I think it would be a disservice to ignore the opportunity to compare these two units, on the same driveway with the same snow.  After 2 storms this is what I've found:

I'm sick of snow.  I like Hondas, but give  Ariens their due.  I think the Ariens machine is a better choice for a majority of people, even if price is not an issue.  If you're not in good enough shape to push the Honda around, I would suggest hiring someone to do your dirveway for you because the 70yr old woman who was the previous owner had no trouble turning this beast on a grave driveway.   If you do snow removal for a living, then you already know what you like, but I'd use a wheeled machine because I could definately see the tracks wearing you out after a few long storms.  Honda throws the same snow farther, beit powder or wet snow.  No contest.  Do you need to throw any farther than 20'?  Probably not so its not importaint.

Honda pros: 

1.) The tracks are unstoppable.  I have 2' of hard snow in my yard and it can chew down to the grass (and beyond) if you let it.  If you make a few passes the snowblower will crunch up the bottom icy layers, and then just eat them up on the next pass.  This is an area I cannot do with the wheeled snowblower.  I can also get up on my truck ramos deck quite easily.  They grip, but I'm sure they will wear much faster than a set of tires.

2.) The engine is superior in 3 major points.  Its so quiet I can hear my phone ring under my jacket.  Its also uses about 30% less gas (dipstick for each blower's tank).   Much cleaner exhaust.  I dont' notice a difference in power per se.  I think both motors have more than enough power to do the job, the major problem with the Ariens being the inefficient disc-o-matic and slippery auger belt.  The last major point would be the automatic decompression that eliminates the need for an electric start.  I tried it but honestly, the lady I bought it from was 70 years old and she could pull-start it.  Ariens has it, and the necessary battery sits to the right of the chute, causing a lot of clogging.  The hydro trans. is less of a big deal than I can remember, because I got used to shifting with the Ariens.  The hydro is stronger, however.   No slipping or lack of power in reverse

3.) The balance of this machine is all towards the front, so when I'm scraping  I push down on the handles and get even more traction.  The Ariens is so well ballanced  the machine will ride up, and when you try to lift up on the handlebars the wheels then spin out.  You can ride up, level, or down.    It is vicious.

Ariens pros:

1.) This machine is very comfortable to use.  I don't have a problem pushing the track around (and neither did the 70 yr old lady I bought it from) but if I was doing sidewalks all day at a condo development I think I'd rather have the Ariens.  The remote chute and handwarmers are nice all-day features.  this is what I think this machine was meant to do, and not scrape up crusty ice or the end of the driveway.  It turns very easy (when the diff isn't locked) and the balance makes this very large machine very manuverable.  If I had to spend 8 hours a day using one and didn't have to go off-road and wasn't trying to pick up packed snow I'd take the Ariens.

2.) It moves faster.  If you have a light amount of snow (2 inches) this machine will do it much faster.  The fastest setting on the Honda's hydrostatic is about gear 3.5-4 on the ariens.   Anything over 4" however, this advantage is negated, because the 36" auger/impeller of the Ariens doesn't move fast enough (although the engine seems strong enough) to push the snow out of the bucket, and extra simply spills out the sides.

3.)  The Ariens (for the most part) seems to be easier to maintain.  They both have skinny little tubes for the handles, but Honda's are welded to the frame whereas Ariens are bolted, making repair much simpler and easier.    Slip-o-matic may not be able to push itself out of a wet paper bag, but it sure looks a lot. cheaper and easier to work on.   It should be noted however, I've never had a problem with even tighning a belt on my 10+yr old Honda and that's after more than 1,000 inches of snow.

Conclusion:

The Ariens may look like some bad boy, but does a polite job (when workingcorrectly) in a majority of circumstances.  This Honda is more specialized.   The Honda is an aggressive, snow thirsty crazy $#%* that will eat anything.  It crawls along and is only happy when eating nasty snow, and doesn't wheel nicely (tracks I guess) to and fro.   I had so much fun chewing into snow drifts with the Honda, I ripped up a piece of gutter that had come off the downspout.   It chewed it up and spit it out by the time I heard it in the auger.  Only aluminium but still pretty cool!  The Ariens cloggs on slush.   I broke a shear pin hitting a piece of wood that I'd dropped 2 month ago.  VERY EASY TO CHANGE.  The Ariens is a pin that goes through one side of the auger and out the other, and when it breaks it leaves a piece inside that you have to find (full of grease, not easy)  line up, knock out then replace.  The hondas are two bolts on the outside so when they shear off they fall out and your ready to insert another.  Honda also uses a different metal, maybe galvalume or something because there is no rust on the Honda even in place where the paint has been scraped off, but the Ariens has creeping rust in every corner.

borat wrote:
A wheeled snowblower suits the majority of the people who need a 2 stage snowblower, and in a few cases a tracked snowblower is better.  Most people don't need tracks and it is a gizmo that appeals to me.  I'd like to get a few more gizmo if I could make one myself.  I've always wanted a tracked snowblower, knowing full well of it's quirks, and I'm a relative newby when it comes to operating 2 stage snowblowers.  I don' t need tracks, a middle of the line wheeled model John Deere, Simplicy, or Ariens would do just fine.  I would be fine  with a 6 HP single stage snowblower too.  Sure beats shoveling by hand.  People don't need 500+ hp Corvettes, off road capability of a Hummer, or a Chevrolet Suburban to take two toddlers around town, but these products is available for people who want them.  Whether these choices reflect the owner's respect for safety of others, environment, our natural resources is another matter. 

I've been looking at snow blowers and, having never owned one, am interested in the wheeled vs. tracked debate.  From those I've talked to and from what I've read, it seems to be pretty well agreed that tracked units are much more difficult to maneuver.  I don't expect that I would need the increased traction that a tracked unit delivers.  However tracked blowers would seem to be better in grass areas or a gravel driveway.  A wheeled unit would not seem to maintain a height as well.  Is this correct?  Would this be an advantage that I could set the height and drive the tracked blower over these surfaces without digging in.
Thanks.

rreihart wrote:

I think this is a slight advantage of a tracked snowblower.  With the snowblower tilted back, the weight balance is right over the tracks.  You can tip it forward or backwards with ease.  It is not likely to dig in, it has more of a tendency to ride up over the snow if the ground speed is too fast or if the snow is heavy.  But you can control how much skimming of the snow you want by pulling up or pushing down on the handle.  Overall, this may be easier for this application as compared to a wheeled snowblower would almost want to drop the bucket, unless you hold it up. 

I don't have experience with gravel, but for any extended operation with the bucket up, it's going to be tiresome after a while.  You may be better off adjusting skid shoes to allow higher auger clearance rather than tilting the machine back.

And the ariens track machines aren't hard to maneuver either as you can run with the axle in the unlocked position so its easier to turn around when you want to. Step on the bar at the bottom and you can lift and lock it in the up position where you can run down a gravel driveway or clear a path for the dog to go in the grass without shaving the grass. Like it was previously said, everyone wishes for something different. They all get the job done!

Coldfingers

Wheeled machines are great on grass.  I do a fifty foot path on grass behind my house.  They work well on gravel as well provided you adjust your skids correctly and do a bit of snow packing on the gravel to help consolidate the surface.  I have a buddy who had to leave town for six weeks one winter and I volunteered to take care of his driveway.  He owned a tracked Honda (HST724 I think?)  and I used it to do his driveway which was fairly large.  As sweet and neat as the Honda was, I was glad to get back to my old wheeled Craftsman.  Don't get me wrong.  The Honda could move snow very impressively.  However,  I wasn't up to moving the machine as well as it was at moving snow.  From my experience, unless conditions warrant., tracked machines are more work to use than a wheeled machine.   The cost is also a factor to be considered.  The value isn't there if there's no real necessity for tracks.  

I hear you, what I like is I can have my skids set low for the blacktop and then by lifting and locking my blower into the transport position I can go over to the gravel or grass and blow it without any further adjusting. Saves me getting out the wrenches and changing the skid setting.

Coldfingers wrote:
I remember seeing someone put a height adjuster from a walk behind lawnmower wheel just for that purpose. 

aa335 wrote:
I would love to figure out a way to rig up something like that.  Currently have skids set plenty high to avoid flinging driveway gravel everywhere but I hate leaving 1 1/2 inches on my concrete paths. 

borat wrote:

For comparison, a Honda HS928TA track model is $120 more than the HS928WA wheel model.  This is a small difference relative to the snowblower price of around $2400.  For the $120, you get the tracks, as well the hardware to to tip the snowblower forward or backwards.  I think that's pretty reasonable.  For comparison across another brand, Ariens 1332DLET track is $500 more than the 1332LET wheel model on a $2800 snowblower.  This will definitely warrant people to really evaluate if they need tracks or not.  Ariens wheel to track conversion kit costs $550 plus installation. 

With that said, it is no secret that Honda 2 stage snowblowers ranging in price from $2000 to $3000 is not the best value.  Despite of that, it is a good machine and most people who have them seemed to like them.  But if we wanted just best value, MTD offerings do that very well.

I'm with Coldfingers on this - since he's said most of what I wanted to say.

I can put my tracked unit into transport and make dog paths in the woods, and run through the mulched areas of the flowerbeds for clearing out a place for the melt to runoff onto. I also make a path completely around the garage to the back of the house for the propane man to use to fill my tank. In many of these cases, wheeled machines can rip lines in the grass where the skids hit, or get caught on sticks frozen into the ice. It also has nowhere near the tendency to climb EOD that the wheeled machines I've used have. A wheeled machine is easier to maneuver - scratch that - not easier, quicker. A powered 180 degree turn to either side is as simple as a 1 finger squeeze but is slower than you can wrestle one around by hand.
 I have a pretty good slope at the top of my driveway and when it's sunny the runoff from my garage roof hits that and once 3 PM comes it all freezes. I've often gone up and down that slope over black ice by just holding onto the handles and sliding without moving my feet; this is made possible by being able to steer with just the fingertip levers.

I could get by with either, I've had both. But if I were buying again tomorrow, I'd want another tracked unit. If I lived in a different house with a different layout, I might change my mind. I must also point out that I've not run a tracked unit that did not have independent releases for each track but that I consider that a very important feature.