Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I had a honda hs828wa for 8 years and all I ever had to put into the unit was gas and oil + a few shear pins when I hit something I wasn't supposed to.  Great machine.  When I moved to my new home with a 400' driveway I figured I needed a bigger machine, and my honda was 10+ years old so what the heck.  I sold the honda for $800 (boy do they hold their value) and put that towards an Ariens that was 2 years old. 

At first I was not a fan of the Ariens, I have to say.  I wasn't prepared to have to tinker and work on this machine to make it work.  I've had problems with everthing from the electric shute not turning to augers not turning.  Belts, rehab on electic motor, wiring,  disc-o-matic/slip-o-matic, about 1/2 every time it snowed.  Some of this can be contributed to the possible impropper maintence of the previous owner, but it was a 40 yr mechanic who specialized in rebuilding clasic cars.  I saw his shop.  I don't think that's the issue.  Main issue is I expected a machine 2x as heavy to dig and scrape and push at least as good as a machine almost 1/2 its size.  It didn't.  So I kept my eye open...

Low and behold, I find a hs1132tas on craigslist for exactly what I paid for the Ariens.  I know I can get what I paid for the Ariens, so I'm going to sell it and keep the honda-BUT WAIT!!  While I'm the owner of these two snow devils I think it would be a disservice to ignore the opportunity to compare these two units, on the same driveway with the same snow.  After 2 storms this is what I've found:

I'm sick of snow.  I like Hondas, but give  Ariens their due.  I think the Ariens machine is a better choice for a majority of people, even if price is not an issue.  If you're not in good enough shape to push the Honda around, I would suggest hiring someone to do your dirveway for you because the 70yr old woman who was the previous owner had no trouble turning this beast on a grave driveway.   If you do snow removal for a living, then you already know what you like, but I'd use a wheeled machine because I could definately see the tracks wearing you out after a few long storms.  Honda throws the same snow farther, beit powder or wet snow.  No contest.  Do you need to throw any farther than 20'?  Probably not so its not importaint.

Honda pros: 

1.) The tracks are unstoppable.  I have 2' of hard snow in my yard and it can chew down to the grass (and beyond) if you let it.  If you make a few passes the snowblower will crunch up the bottom icy layers, and then just eat them up on the next pass.  This is an area I cannot do with the wheeled snowblower.  I can also get up on my truck ramos deck quite easily.  They grip, but I'm sure they will wear much faster than a set of tires.

2.) The engine is superior in 3 major points.  Its so quiet I can hear my phone ring under my jacket.  Its also uses about 30% less gas (dipstick for each blower's tank).   Much cleaner exhaust.  I dont' notice a difference in power per se.  I think both motors have more than enough power to do the job, the major problem with the Ariens being the inefficient disc-o-matic and slippery auger belt.  The last major point would be the automatic decompression that eliminates the need for an electric start.  I tried it but honestly, the lady I bought it from was 70 years old and she could pull-start it.  Ariens has it, and the necessary battery sits to the right of the chute, causing a lot of clogging.  The hydro trans. is less of a big deal than I can remember, because I got used to shifting with the Ariens.  The hydro is stronger, however.   No slipping or lack of power in reverse

3.) The balance of this machine is all towards the front, so when I'm scraping  I push down on the handles and get even more traction.  The Ariens is so well ballanced  the machine will ride up, and when you try to lift up on the handlebars the wheels then spin out.  You can ride up, level, or down.    It is vicious.

Ariens pros:

1.) This machine is very comfortable to use.  I don't have a problem pushing the track around (and neither did the 70 yr old lady I bought it from) but if I was doing sidewalks all day at a condo development I think I'd rather have the Ariens.  The remote chute and handwarmers are nice all-day features.  this is what I think this machine was meant to do, and not scrape up crusty ice or the end of the driveway.  It turns very easy (when the diff isn't locked) and the balance makes this very large machine very manuverable.  If I had to spend 8 hours a day using one and didn't have to go off-road and wasn't trying to pick up packed snow I'd take the Ariens.

2.) It moves faster.  If you have a light amount of snow (2 inches) this machine will do it much faster.  The fastest setting on the Honda's hydrostatic is about gear 3.5-4 on the ariens.   Anything over 4" however, this advantage is negated, because the 36" auger/impeller of the Ariens doesn't move fast enough (although the engine seems strong enough) to push the snow out of the bucket, and extra simply spills out the sides.

3.)  The Ariens (for the most part) seems to be easier to maintain.  They both have skinny little tubes for the handles, but Honda's are welded to the frame whereas Ariens are bolted, making repair much simpler and easier.    Slip-o-matic may not be able to push itself out of a wet paper bag, but it sure looks a lot. cheaper and easier to work on.   It should be noted however, I've never had a problem with even tighning a belt on my 10+yr old Honda and that's after more than 1,000 inches of snow.

Conclusion:

The Ariens may look like some bad boy, but does a polite job (when workingcorrectly) in a majority of circumstances.  This Honda is more specialized.   The Honda is an aggressive, snow thirsty crazy $#%* that will eat anything.  It crawls along and is only happy when eating nasty snow, and doesn't wheel nicely (tracks I guess) to and fro.   I had so much fun chewing into snow drifts with the Honda, I ripped up a piece of gutter that had come off the downspout.   It chewed it up and spit it out by the time I heard it in the auger.  Only aluminium but still pretty cool!  The Ariens cloggs on slush.   I broke a shear pin hitting a piece of wood that I'd dropped 2 month ago.  VERY EASY TO CHANGE.  The Ariens is a pin that goes through one side of the auger and out the other, and when it breaks it leaves a piece inside that you have to find (full of grease, not easy)  line up, knock out then replace.  The hondas are two bolts on the outside so when they shear off they fall out and your ready to insert another.  Honda also uses a different metal, maybe galvalume or something because there is no rust on the Honda even in place where the paint has been scraped off, but the Ariens has creeping rust in every corner.

nhmatt wrote:

Great review.  This is helpful with my decision because I had not the opportunity to try them both in actual snow conditions before purchasing.  There's just no demo for snowblowers.

I find that the Ariens of the battery in front actually puts more weight on the bucket to prevent riding up in packed snow.  However, I don't notice that the chute opening was any different with the battery being next to it.  Can you elaborate on how the battery location can cause clogging?  Perhaps this is due to the impeller/auger belt slipping or the impeller speed not fast enough for the volume of snow the bucket takes in.

In regards to the snow coming out the chute, very small amounts of it will come out at angle that doesn't want to ride up with the chute, and bumps around and dumps to the side of the chute.  I would imagine it has something to do with quantum phyics and the probability of particle movement.  Yeah, that's right.  But small amounts drizzle out, and on the left side they drop off the blower and you don't notice them.  On the right side, however, there is a battery on which they pile up, and evetually back up and clog the chute or freeze and jam the chute.  Can I stop, reach around, unclog the chute, and keep going?  Yes I can.  However,  the battery is in a stupid spot.

It's very manuverable and will do a job for clearing light snow fast, and it won't wear you out unless you have an incline (slip-o-matic works great in the showroom where its nice and dry) or need to clear packed or frozen snow.    I was not too impressed with it, but in another house on another driveway in another state I'm sure it would be fine.  Tracs are NOT a user-friendly feature on a 11hp, 32" snowblower.   You get them because you need them.   If you don't think you need tracs then get the 928 wheeled Honda, or a 11-13hp simplicity or toro.  Keep in mind, a smaller Honda will do the work of a larger machine, and unless you're partially disabled I wouldn't make your decision based on a differential (like I did)  I think Ariens were better made 20 years ago.

nhmatt wrote:

Yes, now I get it.  The snow building up around the battery next to the chute.  However, I'm no physicist so I won't ask about quantum and particles stuff.

Hmm, there seems to be a lot of complaint about the friction disk drives this winter, surprising this technology is 30 or more years old.

30 years old and it works.  The old chain drives worked great too, when they worked.  You're exactly right.  The Ariens snowblower you buy today is essentially the same snowblower you bought 30 years ago, except for some heated handles and chute that has no manual release so when it breaks you're blowin' left.

One more thing I like about the Honda:  One of the kids left a snow shovel in the backyard path and I ate the end of it with the Honda.  I never used to snowblow back there, because the Ariens simply didn't have the traction to get around, so now I'm hitting things left and right.  I shut the gas off at the carb, tipped the unit back onto its handles and cut the snow shovel out  of the bucket with a ricprocating saw.    Then replaced the shearpin, turned on the gas and kept going.  NO  SPILLING THE GAS!!!!!!!!  If you want to put the Ariens into "service position" to adjust shoes or work on something underneath they suggest you empty the gas tank, because it leaks in that position.  Stupid.s

I wasn't clear whether you decided to keep the Ariens or the Honda after spending time evaluating both models.

For me, I'm happy with my Honda HS1132.  I wouldn't mind giving up a little bit of brute force and trade for more maneuverability of the HS928 track.  The HS928 track were all sold out in November so I'm left with a HS724TA or a HS1132TA.  Seems like the 928 is the most popular model for snow removal contractors.  Tracks are not friendly for most of the time, however, a few nasty storms and a couple of tall piles makes me smile how well it attacks them.  I have side skid shoes installed and when put in scraper mode, it put so much weight on the front bucket that there is virtually no riding up on the snow. 

I've been using snow throwers for over twenty years.   I have a steep 11:1 grade driveway, 110 ft. long, 20 ft. wide for 70 feet with a 35 ft. by 35 ft. turn around at the top.  We get tons of snow and every variety it comes in.  I will get 30" or more of end of driveway snow that at times freezes a near solid shell around it.  Not once in twenty years have I ever wished for or needed a tracked machine.  Personally, a wheeled machine will work for 99% of us and will, in the long run, require much less effort to operate.   For the very, very few occasions that a tracked machine would be better, a wheeled machine will deliver years of consistently easier operation.  Personally, I feel that tracks are unnecessary except for extreme cases where traction is next to impossible for a wheeled machine.  I've never seen nor experienced such a situation where a wheeled machine couldn't get the job done.  Most people buying tracked machines don't need them.  I classify tracks as "gizmology" for most people who buy them.          

borat wrote:
A wheeled snowblower suits the majority of the people who need a 2 stage snowblower, and in a few cases a tracked snowblower is better.  Most people don't need tracks and it is a gizmo that appeals to me.  I'd like to get a few more gizmo if I could make one myself.  I've always wanted a tracked snowblower, knowing full well of it's quirks, and I'm a relative newby when it comes to operating 2 stage snowblowers.  I don' t need tracks, a middle of the line wheeled model John Deere, Simplicy, or Ariens would do just fine.  I would be fine  with a 6 HP single stage snowblower too.  Sure beats shoveling by hand.  People don't need 500+ hp Corvettes, off road capability of a Hummer, or a Chevrolet Suburban to take two toddlers around town, but these products is available for people who want them.  Whether these choices reflect the owner's respect for safety of others, environment, our natural resources is another matter. 

I've been looking at snow blowers and, having never owned one, am interested in the wheeled vs. tracked debate.  From those I've talked to and from what I've read, it seems to be pretty well agreed that tracked units are much more difficult to maneuver.  I don't expect that I would need the increased traction that a tracked unit delivers.  However tracked blowers would seem to be better in grass areas or a gravel driveway.  A wheeled unit would not seem to maintain a height as well.  Is this correct?  Would this be an advantage that I could set the height and drive the tracked blower over these surfaces without digging in.
Thanks.

rreihart wrote:

I think this is a slight advantage of a tracked snowblower.  With the snowblower tilted back, the weight balance is right over the tracks.  You can tip it forward or backwards with ease.  It is not likely to dig in, it has more of a tendency to ride up over the snow if the ground speed is too fast or if the snow is heavy.  But you can control how much skimming of the snow you want by pulling up or pushing down on the handle.  Overall, this may be easier for this application as compared to a wheeled snowblower would almost want to drop the bucket, unless you hold it up. 

I don't have experience with gravel, but for any extended operation with the bucket up, it's going to be tiresome after a while.  You may be better off adjusting skid shoes to allow higher auger clearance rather than tilting the machine back.

And the ariens track machines aren't hard to maneuver either as you can run with the axle in the unlocked position so its easier to turn around when you want to. Step on the bar at the bottom and you can lift and lock it in the up position where you can run down a gravel driveway or clear a path for the dog to go in the grass without shaving the grass. Like it was previously said, everyone wishes for something different. They all get the job done!

Coldfingers

Wheeled machines are great on grass.  I do a fifty foot path on grass behind my house.  They work well on gravel as well provided you adjust your skids correctly and do a bit of snow packing on the gravel to help consolidate the surface.  I have a buddy who had to leave town for six weeks one winter and I volunteered to take care of his driveway.  He owned a tracked Honda (HST724 I think?)  and I used it to do his driveway which was fairly large.  As sweet and neat as the Honda was, I was glad to get back to my old wheeled Craftsman.  Don't get me wrong.  The Honda could move snow very impressively.  However,  I wasn't up to moving the machine as well as it was at moving snow.  From my experience, unless conditions warrant., tracked machines are more work to use than a wheeled machine.   The cost is also a factor to be considered.  The value isn't there if there's no real necessity for tracks.  

I hear you, what I like is I can have my skids set low for the blacktop and then by lifting and locking my blower into the transport position I can go over to the gravel or grass and blow it without any further adjusting. Saves me getting out the wrenches and changing the skid setting.

Coldfingers wrote:
I remember seeing someone put a height adjuster from a walk behind lawnmower wheel just for that purpose. 

aa335 wrote:
I would love to figure out a way to rig up something like that.  Currently have skids set plenty high to avoid flinging driveway gravel everywhere but I hate leaving 1 1/2 inches on my concrete paths. 

borat wrote:

For comparison, a Honda HS928TA track model is $120 more than the HS928WA wheel model.  This is a small difference relative to the snowblower price of around $2400.  For the $120, you get the tracks, as well the hardware to to tip the snowblower forward or backwards.  I think that's pretty reasonable.  For comparison across another brand, Ariens 1332DLET track is $500 more than the 1332LET wheel model on a $2800 snowblower.  This will definitely warrant people to really evaluate if they need tracks or not.  Ariens wheel to track conversion kit costs $550 plus installation. 

With that said, it is no secret that Honda 2 stage snowblowers ranging in price from $2000 to $3000 is not the best value.  Despite of that, it is a good machine and most people who have them seemed to like them.  But if we wanted just best value, MTD offerings do that very well.

I'm with Coldfingers on this - since he's said most of what I wanted to say.

I can put my tracked unit into transport and make dog paths in the woods, and run through the mulched areas of the flowerbeds for clearing out a place for the melt to runoff onto. I also make a path completely around the garage to the back of the house for the propane man to use to fill my tank. In many of these cases, wheeled machines can rip lines in the grass where the skids hit, or get caught on sticks frozen into the ice. It also has nowhere near the tendency to climb EOD that the wheeled machines I've used have. A wheeled machine is easier to maneuver - scratch that - not easier, quicker. A powered 180 degree turn to either side is as simple as a 1 finger squeeze but is slower than you can wrestle one around by hand.
 I have a pretty good slope at the top of my driveway and when it's sunny the runoff from my garage roof hits that and once 3 PM comes it all freezes. I've often gone up and down that slope over black ice by just holding onto the handles and sliding without moving my feet; this is made possible by being able to steer with just the fingertip levers.

I could get by with either, I've had both. But if I were buying again tomorrow, I'd want another tracked unit. If I lived in a different house with a different layout, I might change my mind. I must also point out that I've not run a tracked unit that did not have independent releases for each track but that I consider that a very important feature.

Bill_H wrote:

I did this very thing a few weeks ago, holding on to snowblower while it climb.  I did wished that the snowblower could push my rear wheel drive car up that icy driveway.

What model is your snowblower that has independent release of the tracks?

Thanks for the review.  We have a very steep driveway/parking area that totals about 3,300 sq. ft.  I just replaced an aging Craftsman 10 HP 32 inch track drive with a Honda 1132TAS.  Track drive is nice on the steep bits.

I was amazed at the difference in what kind of snow the Honda will throw, without clogging.  The Craftsman clogged constantly with mildly soggy snow.  Nothing seems to clog the Honda, not even slush.  I also like the hydrostatic drive.  The Craftsman's disk slipped in reverse so badly that it has always been difficult to drag it backwards, if facing down hill at all.  The Honda backs up with no problem on hills.  The Honda is much quieter as well. 

The Honda was a lot of money, ($3079) + delivery, but so far I am happy with the performance and user experience.  This board was great for a resource in the decision process.  Anything I bought was going to have to come from a long way away since our neighborhood is a small mountain community surrounded by desert.  Dealers that carry snowblowers are hundreds of miles north.  Being able to read of others' experiences and even links to the you-tube videos was an invaluable aid in the decision process!!

aa335 wrote:
It's an old and discontinued Yard-Man. The model number is 31BH763G401 according to my manual. I know there's a series number (3 digit I think) but I can't recall it or find it, sorry.

aa335 wrote:

I've just sold the Ariens for what I paid for the Honda. It was definately a deal, even if the MSRP wasn't that far off.   I'm guessing I'll save $20/yr just on gas.  After 2 snow storms I've yet to fill it and I'm still runing on free gas left when I bought it.  Its much more efficient,  and it digs like a gopher.

Tracks are not for professionals, who would tell you no about a tough path to the propane tank, or snowblow the woods for your dog, or scrape your pavement so you don't get an ice build-up, or anything else that's going to take longer and cost more than people are willing to pay.  Tracks are for nit-picky homeowners who like it done the way they want it done.   That being said, if a driveway is straight in and out It would still be a piece of cake.  I took my blower off-road to a snomobile path 200' behind my house, and then used it to clear the skate pond. 

I LOVE my HS1132tac.  I tried the electric start just for kicks but I'm guessing that will be the last time.  There's no point with the decompression on the honda, my 8 yr old daughter can start it.    The tracks turn easy enough when you're moving.  I turn while I'm moving, because with the hydrostatic tranny I don't have to stop (like the Ariens).

nhmatt wrote:

I read in another post that you got quite a deal on a used Honda HS1132TAS.  I wished I could be as patient.  The best price for a 2 year old 1132 lightly used was $2500 in my area.  And new track models were hard to find even in late November.

I also got the electric start model, $100 more.  I figure I don't need to use it often, but if I do, it may be worthwhile (broken starter cord, bad gas, really cold temps)  Besides, it may help resale later on.  Realistically, if I had to use the electric start often, then I'm not physically fit and should not be operating this snowblower.

I used to operate a HS621 single stage that I bought for my father and I love that machine.  Now I have the HS1132TAS, I also love this beast.  When the snow gets worse, this thing just gets better.  Scraper mode is awesome, chews through ice and packed snow left by car tire tracks.  No single stage blowers can do that. 

I've broken two shear bolts, both my fault.  I have to agree with you that replacing the shear bolt nice and simple.  Step on the pedal, tilt the bucket back, spin the auger by hand and pop in a new bolt and lock nut.  Nice.  Although I don't know how tight I the lock nut should be torqued at.

Definately a beast.  I drove it up onto my deck yesterday and started clearing off 3' of packed snow.  One of the layers of ice was over 1" thick and I had to keep checking to make sure I didn't have a chair/shovel or something hiding somewhere in the crackling ice chips.   I'm scared.  Nothing stops it.

Did I read that right?  You had 3 feet of snow on your deck?  Are you in the east coast?

I hoping for some decent snowfall here in the midwest.  Just had a big thunderstorm with some flash flood, that's about it.  If this keeps up, I'm going to trade in my snowblower for a water pump and a new lawn mower.

Yeah, it was almost over the railing, so I guess that's closer to 3.5 feet.  You shovel away from the hose and don't make it over, so it just sits there till you want to get rid of it.  We've had a modereate winter of about 75".  Last year was brutal with over 120" and NO WARM DAYS SO ABSOLUTELY NO MELT!!!!!

It would be interesting to hear about a tracked Ariens.

My main concerns are:

1. Speed - I typically run the blower at the highest speed possible;
2. Ease of Turning - I do a lot of turns so I've been planning for the next beast to be a differential;
3. Transmission Efficiency -  I am concerned about the recent discomatic slipping problems. It also sounds like a major power loss, does anyone have numbers?; and
4. Traction - I have one gravel driveway that is long, steep and often times deep and/or icy, tracks look attractive any time I clear it.
   

I think there is only one person on this forum who has a Ariens tracked model.  Can't seem to recall his name.  Maybe you should start a thread to get his feedback on it.

If I can find out or remember who that is, I'll let you know.

aa335 wrote:
I've believe that would be coldfingers.

The 9526DLET is the only machine that hasn't had any complaints this year.

Paul

pvrp wrote:

Thanks Paul, you beat me to it.  Yup, it is coldfingers. 

He also has a modified Honda HS520 (6 HP) that kind of stirred my interest in making my own "Tim Allen" 8 HP/20 inch single stage snowblower.  I can see it's going to be heavier than the defunct Toro Snow Commander.  I'm going to have to learn about welding and fiberglass layup.

I've sent a pm to them and hope we will get a reply.

Need some advice from you experienced snow blowers...  I have a cabin in the woods (base of Mt. Adams in Washington st.).  We have a 1/4 mile driveway (old logging road) to our cabin.  Used to be able to hire a local to plow the drive way but two winters a go he gave up.  Too much snow for his pickup with plow attachment.  The drive goes down hill off the highway and is quite steep.  Can't find any other locals willing to plow on a regular basis.  In bad winters we can get two to three feet of snow.   Can I get the drive cleared with a Honda 32inch track drive??  How long would it take if it snowed a couple of feet overnight when I was there....? I understand it would take some time but at least I have a way to do it and would not be so dependent on others.  Last winter we let it go and had to park at the highway and snow show in...  Novel for about three times then gets old....  Any advice would be appreciated...

Ken

Any snowblower can do it.  How much time do you have?

The 1132tas is about 3 grand new.  It will push 12" of snow at about 2-3 miles per hour.  Not that fast, but in my opinion it will do it as fast or faster than any other walk-behind snowblower on the market.  I had the 36" ariens pro and wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.   I have a 400' driveway and I make 3 passes up and down so, 2400'.  That takes about 20-30 minutes depending on the depth of snow, the mailbox, cleaning off cars, path to the oil tanks, wood shed, doggie path, skate pond ect.  I could be out there for an hour 'cuz once you get going its fun.  But 1/4 mile and the road is wider than my driveway, so minimum 4 passes if you plan some turnaround spots.   That equals about 11,000 linear feet I estimate it would take me 1.5-2 hours to snowblow your drieveway......just your driveway.......everytime it snows............. 

 It sounds like you have a good excuse to buy a small tractor with a 48" snowblower attachment.  Congratulations!

Thanks for the info.  A couple of hours doesn't sound to bad.  We get up to the cabin about once or twice a month.  If I ended up with 2 to  3 feet of snow before I got to it, can I still get it cleared with the track Honda? 

 Do you know anything about Bercomac snowblower attachments for ATVs??  Apparently you can get from 48 to 60+ inch models. Would the right ATV handle the hill?

On the Honda, would the wheeled version be any faster for snow up to 12 inches? 

kenrubesh wrote:
The wheeled version would be faster on transport speed.  If you're blowing snow from 9 inches and higher, you are not likely to go full speed on either wheeled or tracked model.  Both have the same limitation, volumetric capacity of the auger/impeller, not ground speed.

kenrubesh wrote:

3' of crusty snow?  If I were you I'd clear a spot just off the road, park the car,  and take the sleds into to the cabin.    

I would definately get the trac if I was crazy enough to try it.  However, figure this:  The bucket is about 18" high, so you'll have to push into the snow, knock down the top, back up, then take another whack at it.  Your 2 hours just turned into 5.  Do you really want to spend your limited time messing around with this?  ATV would handle the hill down but perhaps not up, so for that part just snowblow down then turn around and go up.