Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I know that this has been brought up many times before, but I wanted to hit this one again.  Most know that Tecumseh is now bankrupt and there are no engines available and there are no plans to make any more engines at this point.  It doesn't mean that they will never make any engines, but right now nothing is for sure.  Ariens was always a proud user of the Tecumseh snow king line of engines.  How would you feel about buying an Ariens with a Tecumseh engine in it right now?

I was in Home Depot this weekend and saw the latest batches of the 927LE.  These new units came with Briggs Snow Max engines that produced 13.5 foot pounds of torque and sold for $1050.  .  The Ariens web site does not reflect this change yet.  I think the Snow King engines are very nice units that have proven themselves in the field or in this case the snow.  The other reason to use Tecumseh for Ariens was always a marketing way to differentiate themselves from products put out by B&S, including the B&S name plate, John Deere, and Simplicity to name just a few (I'm sure there are many more).

When I think of snow engines I personally think pretty simplistically.  I think of the Tecumseh, B&S, Honda and the many Chinesse engines no matter who's name plate is on the sheet metal.  Would love to hear your comments.

Rick

I don't drive awards or publications.  I drive vehicles.  I know what my experience has taught me.  I've learned valuable and expensive lessons in automotive ownership.  Lesson no. 1:  A vehicle that needs less repairs tends to be more readily accessible and inexpensive to operate.  Lesson no. 2:  Lower initial price of vehicle is not necessarily a bargain if that same vehicle will cost many thousands of dollars more in repairs over the long run. 

All four of our Toyotas combined over a period of thirty years of ownership were  probably 1/10th as costly in repairs than one of my North American vehicles.   In addition to that, I always had a Toyota in our own garage at night rather than in the repair shop.  It's a defining moment when you get up to go to work in the morning, go to the garage and remember your transportation is in getting fixed AGAIN but the wife's old Toyota is in the garage.  You'll need a ride to work again.  After a few of these events, one begins to connect the dots....  I connected them a long time ago.

i just bought a Toro 1128 OXE with an OHV Tec engine this fall. I am very satisfied with it. I did not buy a Honda 928 WAS due to the price and the risk of repair problems with the Hydrostatic drive over time. I'm hoping Toro's straightforward drive system will turn out to have fewer and less costly repair problems.

A local snowblower dealer told me his guess is that the people who bought Tecumseh tried to sell the small engine business separately but could not find any buyers at their asking price, so they announced they were going to terminate the business. He predicted now that the business has been thrown into distress someone will come in and buy it at a fraction of its previous value as a going concern, and revive it under the same or a different name. He thought the manufacturing facilities and equipment were just too valuable to be fully scrapped and abandoned.

Bottom line, he thought Tecumseh's line of snowblower engines would be continued in some form and there would be parts and repair service for present Tec engines in future years.

Snowmann wrote:
Two years ago the Deluxe models like my 11528 featured the remote lock/unlock lever.  The 11 hp Deluxe model today has a differential.  A pretty significant difference making brand model comparisons difficult and confusing. 

As far as the cars go the Citation, Celebrity, Lumina and Impala also all came in multiple versions.   The difference being that I can still buy a Camary. 

Snowmann wrote:
Heh, reminds me of the Consumer Reports controversy for the Plymouth Horizon "Car of The Year - Unsafe?" in the late 70's.  Then Nissan' small trucks got trashed by CR for horribly expensive repair costs in minor collisions. Nissan's answer? The "Hard Body" campaign. Never fixed anything, just worked on the image and the average consumer bought the hype.  Just FYI: JD Power actually goes for 3 years on quality: http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/dependability-ratings-by-brand

Let's face it, they all suck. "Make a buck this quarter and sell another in two years" seems to be the motto. Cars, DVD players, lawnmowers, tools, phones, guns, trucks, snowblowers, whatever. The "built to last" mentality is disappearing in everything except for a small niche market that is shrinking too rapidly and getting too expensive.

I think I'm turning into a bitter old b*st*rd.

Ah Bill, I would have left this thread alone except to read it with interest until you included guns in the "not built to last" list. Some manufacturers still believe in building quality firearms. Ruger especially comes to mind...

While I work in the auto industry I have stayed out of that portion of the thread and while I shoot competively I will also stay out of that portion of the thread, but please have fun with the firearms related conversation if the powers that be don't mind.  Back to the Tecumseh portion of the thread.  What prompted this conversation is that I recently bought an Ariens with a 358 CC Snow King Tecumseh.  I returned that unit last night based on the response and information shared in this post.  While that engine started on each and every pull.  My last engine in my old snow thrower was also a Tecumseh and it is still running 21 years later.  If I can't find parts for that unit 10 years down the road that is one thing but the new unit needs to have an engine that will  have parts available not only for warranty work if need be but down the road. 

At this point something with the B&S snow max engine seems to be the best choice for me.  That L head might have never had any issues, but I just wasn't willing to gamble.

Rick

Clay wrote:
Ariens have declared publicly that they will cover the warranties for their machines.  I take this
to mean that they'll change the engine on one if they have to.

Paul

I think that they might be able to scrape up an engine over the warranty period of 3 years.  Again, my current machine is 21 years old and almost any unit will last over 10 years.  I'm not as concerned about the warranty period as I am down the road.  The other point is how can they replace the L Head when they can't even get those engines right now.  I bet, just my opinion, that if you blow an L head right now, it will have to be replaced with a Briggs.  Again, the latest machines that I saw at Home Depot from Ariens came with the Briggs snow max engines because they can't get engines.  I think that Ariens will do what ever they can to make it right and I don't doubt them as a good company.  I am concerned about the long term ride with any new unit purchased.  Just one guy's opinion.

Rick

While I never got a straight answer out of the customer service department
and they transferred me to the warranty department to ask about Tecumseh
engines and Ariens, I did send them an email.  When I sent the email, there
was a notification that said that it could take up to two days to get a
reply.  I received a return email from Ariens today, 4 days later, and this
is it:

"Dear Rick

Thank you for contacting the Ariens Company. The Tecumseh Company has
not changed in their service to the customer. Please contact Tecumseh
800-558-5402 for further information on their products.

Thank you
Tom Dvorachek
Customer Service Rep
Ariens/Gravely Co.
920 756 4352
fax 920 756 4471
tdvorachek@ariens.com "

I replied to Tom and told him that I had already tried contacting customer
service and if he actually read my email he would have seen that.  From the
original email to Ariens:

"I have concerns about long term parts availability as well as warranty
work.  I was on hold two times this morning.  Judy in Customer Service didn't want to
answer my questions and no one would pick up after over 20 minutes on
hold in the warranty department despite two calls placed."

So that's Ariens customer service, which makes me feel more confident about
investing in a John Deere with a Briggs engine instead of the Ariens with
the Tecumseh engines.

Please draw your own conclusions as this is one example with a couple of
different contacts with customer service at Ariens.  Your experiences might
very well be different with different people on different days."



Rick Ingle

Certainly not confidence inspiring now is it?

As long as sales are booming, most North American companies will seldom concern themselves with customer inquiries.  If they sell 1000 machines and one guy complains, so what?  They assume that the other 999 customers are happy.  That's the same kind of arrogance and hubris that got the Detroit Three into the predicament they're in now.  As long as they can ride on the shirt tails of their good name, despite quality and customer issues, they'll continue to do so until their sales begin to reflect customer dissatisfaction.   By then, it could be too late.