Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I know that this has been brought up many times before, but I wanted to hit this one again.  Most know that Tecumseh is now bankrupt and there are no engines available and there are no plans to make any more engines at this point.  It doesn't mean that they will never make any engines, but right now nothing is for sure.  Ariens was always a proud user of the Tecumseh snow king line of engines.  How would you feel about buying an Ariens with a Tecumseh engine in it right now?

I was in Home Depot this weekend and saw the latest batches of the 927LE.  These new units came with Briggs Snow Max engines that produced 13.5 foot pounds of torque and sold for $1050.  .  The Ariens web site does not reflect this change yet.  I think the Snow King engines are very nice units that have proven themselves in the field or in this case the snow.  The other reason to use Tecumseh for Ariens was always a marketing way to differentiate themselves from products put out by B&S, including the B&S name plate, John Deere, and Simplicity to name just a few (I'm sure there are many more).

When I think of snow engines I personally think pretty simplistically.  I think of the Tecumseh, B&S, Honda and the many Chinesse engines no matter who's name plate is on the sheet metal.  Would love to hear your comments.

Rick

I would put money on it that there will be third party vendors, but at what price?  They are going to do it to make money from people that don't have any other choices.  I just don't know if this is in the Tecumseh engine buyer's best interests.  It has me wondering and that is the reason for the post.  The truth is, in the current economic environment with companies going out of business left and right, there are no guarantee's no matter who's engine you buy.

Clay wrote:

The "invisible hand" will guide the prices to what's appropriate.  If the prices are too high, that will encourage more companies to jump in and get a piece of the pie.  

Clay wrote:

While B&S purchased Simplicity and Snapper in 2004, and while Simplicity currently makes the John Deere snow throwers, B&S doesn’t own John Deere.  It's not one of their name plates.

As for Tecumseh, the engine and power train division was acquired by Platinum Equity in November, 2007. The parent company is the real Tecumseh, but they don’t sell small engines any more, They are traded on NASDAQ and reported a 9 million profit in August, 2008.

The Platinum Equity owned Tecumseh is now known as the Tecumseh Power Company and still seems to be in business and making engines. Do you have any information to the contrary that you can link to?

MacLorry27 wrote:

Good points all.  I am more on a fact finding mission and want to know the real story than having to have any factual infomation to offer myself.  I have read many times on various boards and heard from various snow thrower sales people that Tecumseh was out of the engine making business, but MacLorry seems to say something different.  I'll check the link out that you provided and physically call the company and see what I get out of them as long as they are in the US to call. 

I was on the phone with Ariens this morning and trying to get information out of them was very difficult indeed.  The customer service rep that I spoke to said that they were manufacturing current orders that were not filled this year with B&S engines, ( I saw that with my own eyes at Home Depot).  She also said that the decision has not been made, (which I hear as "Not available to the public yet") on which engine will be used in the 2009 product line.  I sent them an email asking for information in writing.  When Ariens received it, they said that the response should be within 2 days.  I'll try to update this post when I get information back from them, IF they provide any useful information.  If the engines are not currently available, they are producing machines with B&S power plants instead of Tecumseh engines, I wonder how they plan on servicing warranty work.  These are all just concerns and I make no clain of any inside info.  I'll call Tec Power Company and follow up.

Rick

Wow, was that UGLY.  5 phone calls, in a short time frame and trying to navigate the automatic system.  Each time it would end up telling me to contact a local service center and then hang up on me.  I got this phone number from a service manual. 

TecumsehPower at 1-800-558-5402 or 262-377-2700 The 1-800 number kept giving me this message:  "Your call cannot be completed at this time", read into that what ever you want.  Could be my phone service carrier, could be the number is disconnected.  I did get through to the automated system with the 262 number but never made it through the maze.  I even tried to get a company directory or making up an extenstion number, the company directory you had to spell someone's name so I put in a sta and nothing came up and then they cut me off.  I tried extension 0, and 100 to no avail. 

Anyone know of a different number with a live person that I can talk to about the current state of their business.  I have heard so many different things from different dealers, I think half the time they make stuff up or are repeating some rumor that isn't fact.  I would like to talk to someone at the company itself instead of a dealer.  Any ideas?

I'll try another series of calls and see what happens. 

Rick

Update, after spinning my wheels a lot today I finally was able to contact a real live person.  They work for Central Power Distributor's in Wis and I found them listed in the regional listing for Tecumseh power here:  http://www.tecumsehpower.com/frameset.php?page=CustomerService/ServiceLocator/index.php

The guys that I talked to Said "They are no longer in business and they will never make any more engines" .  I asked him to repeat that and he did. He said that "someone could buy that part of the company but they are not making engines now.  He said, don't worry about parts and warranty but when pushed on the subject of getting replacement parts down the road the Tec distributor had to admit that it could be difficult once the current part supply is gone until third party vendors kicked in.  I'm just confirming my own believe's that right now given the choices, a consumer is probably better off to buy one of the other engines available if all things are equal. 

Rick

Good info.  Thanks.  I would hope that with all the Tecumseh engines in use that 3rd party vendor would be all over replacement parts.

Clay wrote:

Ok I called Platinum Equity at 310-712-1850 in Beverly Hills, CA and talked to a guy named Mark. Tecumseh Power is one of their holdings and he told me they shut down engine manufacturing at the end of 2008 and that it’s unlikely they will ever start up manufacturing again. However, you can buy some parts on-line directly from the Tecumseh Power web site.

Would I buy a new snow thrower with a Tecumseh engine? Probably not as I would be concerned about any warrantee work. However, I’m not too concerned about the equipment I have that does use a Tecumseh engine, other than I might buy a few air filters and spark plugs for them.

Sad to see Tecumseh go the way of the dodo bird and with Honda and now Yamaha selling snow throwers, how long can American brands compete?

"Sad to see Tecumseh go the way of the dodo bird and with Honda and now Yamaha selling snow throwers, how long can American brands compete?"

With the recent down turn in product quality of a couple of prominent snow thrower manufacturers in order for them to enter into the box store market, and the continued consistent quality of Honda and now Yamaha, I'd say the plan for self destruction is pretty much set for domestic manufacturers.    Look at the auto sector in Detroit.  Their arrogance and hubris allowed them to keep their heads in the sand for almost 40 years.  The writing has been on the wall for at least that long and finally, they've pulled their heads out  just in time to read the bad news.   A loyal customer who learns that the new machine they have just purchased is not nearly as robust as the one of the same brand that they are replacing, will not be coming back for another one.  In addition to that, he/she will not be giving the new machine very good reviews when it starts to break down.   The logic of compromised manufacturing quality eludes me. 

And....I don't buy the "advanced more efficient productions methods" smoke screen either.  Cheap is cheap, plain and simple.   

Clay wrote:
First of all I don't think Tecumseh went bankrupt.  I believe they were bought out by an equity fund who just
threw that division in the garbage once they got their hands on the parts they were interested in.  This kind
of thing bothers me more than any possible decrease in quality that may be happening in the industry.

When I bought my new Ariens in November / December I knew that Tecumseh was finished but I bought
the machine with its Tecumseh engine anyway.  I have no experience with B&S engines but the Tecumseh
10hp L-head on my old snowblower has lasted ten years without requiring anything other than oil changes
so I felt pretty confident about the new one doing the same.

Paul