Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Bought this Ariens 11528DLE last year, in January. For some reason, the forward and reverse drive will stop working. The friction wheel is fine, and there is no adjustment for the belt. I brought it to the local Ariens dealer, and of course, they could not reproduce the problem. They were nice enough to look inside, clean the wheel that the friction wheel drives with brake cleaner. Next snow storm, same thing, one pass down the driveway, and it stops. The dealer says, never heard of this one, maybe water is getting inside.

Paid lots of money for a machine that is touted as one of the best, I wish I could figure out why it is happening. Any suggestions???

Thanks

Brian from NH

Brian

I have been fighting Ariens with the same issue for at least two years!!.  Am very frustrated with them and the product to say the least..  They recently had a dealer install a baffle to try and prevent water from getting inside the drive system and I had it installed but with not much luck.. Last storm it worked for a while but then the drive stopped again.. If you look at my issue and the threads, a gentleman (snowmann) has offered some suggestions.   Ariens has produced a baffle to help stop the water from leaking in.. however it's not more than a "L" shaped piece of metal that bolts around the engine and pto.  I had taken it back to the dealer I bought it from 3-4 times with no trouble found until the next storm comes around..  Snowmann offered suggestions as to look at the tension adjustment, contaminated drive plate, cleaning the friction wheel and making sure the baffle was installed correctly.. All great suggestion which I have done.  I'm still confused as to why Ariens has not stepped up to the plate and admits that they have a problem with this model and make it right with their customers !!!  I wish I could be more help but like I said.. I'm still fighting with them to make it right..

gbb

Loss of drive soon after you start blowing can be caused by keeping the machine in a warm garage. When you start throwing snow there’s often a cloud of fine ice particles floating in the air and they will find there way into the drive housing where they come in contact with the drive disk and melt because the disk is warm. Water on the friction wheel / disk will reduce the torque to the wheels, but not to the point where you will notice unless you are pushing into a drift. However, depending on the outside air temperature, the friction disk cools off and the film of water turns to a film of ice with nearly zero friction and the drive stops working.

Assuming you have a warm garage, the solution is to put the machine outside for a while before you start throwing snow. If it’s really cold, maybe just ten minutes to cool the friction disk off so that snow hitting it won’t melt and then refreeze.

Even without a heated garage you can run into this phenomena if you use the thrower long enough and hard enough in conditions that allow the friction disk to warm up past freezing. As long as you keep going you only experience the reduced torque of water on the friction wheel / disk, but If you stop for a while, the water freezes and now you have no drive when you come back from your break, even if you left the engine running.

This phenomena depends on many factors including the kind of snow, air temperature, and how warm the machine was to start with. That’s why dealers can’t reproduce it and why many of their other customers with the same machine don’t report the problem.

If you don’t think that’s the problem take the belt housing cover off and look for holes or gaps in the plate that separates the belt housing from the impeller. The impeller shaft bearing is mounted to that plate by bolts and if one is missing or if there’s any gap in that plate snow may be blown into the belt and drive housing.

Nice explanation Mac!  I never thought of that happening.

Now I'm wondering if a spritz of alcohol would cure it, by both deicing and drying, and then evaporating leaving nothing. Theoretically, it could even help cool the plate back down. I'm not sure if it would evaporate fast enough in the cold and I'm too lazy to look it up.  Anyway, I'd be tempted to try it if I had that problem.

Bill_H wrote:

Spraying alcohol on the friction disk is problematic for several reasons. First, how do you do it without taking the bottom panel off? Second, alcohol is highly flammable and a mist of alcohol is explosive only needing an ignition source. Third, alcohol allows water to mix with oil, which is not something I would want on the internal workings of the drive system. Some sort of electric heat would be better, either intense light or heated air. Then again, the problem can usually be avoided by letting the machine cool off before starting to throw snow.  Honda avoids the problem altogether by using hydrostatic drive.

Brian....Warm garage, cold garage... outside.... bottom line is this machine should work either way...period...It's a poor design and doesn't work .. I had the baffle put on and it still has issues....I  had a Signature machine for 10 years made by Noma ( a fraction of the cost)  and kept it in the same spot in the garage where my Ariens machine sits now...Never had a problem other than normal maintenance.   If only the Ariens 11528DLE  would work as well as my old one.. .At least I could count on it moving when I put it in gear..  My patience is almost gone!!

bob1031 wrote:
Any chance of showing us a picture of the inside of your machine, the
friction disk and drive plate in particular ?  I had a similar problem but
after leaving the machine indoors for a couple of days to dry out and
setting the tension on the drive engagement cable to just a bit more
than what is specified it regained its traction.

Paul

Hello again, here is where I am with the machine. I contacted Ariens and they want my dealer to put a baffle on my machine, just like Bob1031. Of course, I will do this, even though it did not work for Bob1031. I have a feeling that this will be a big waste of time, but if I don't go along with it, Ariens will say they did what they could do.

Mac, I keep the machine in an unheated shed, they same place that I have kept my John Deere snow blower for the past 15 years and with no problems. The John Deere has the same set up with the friction plate. There is absolutly no reason for this problem. Cables have been adjusted and friction plate cleaned a number of times. I just hope I can get some satisfaction from Ariens, but after reading Bob's post, I am not feeling too good about that.

Brian NH

We have a year old 11528 LE at work and it does the same thing.

I wonder if someone made a bad choice on the type of compound that should go on the friction disk. The harder it is the longer it will last but the less friction you will get. Softer equals more friction but faster wear. While water can lead to some problems it is part of the working environment and should not cause a problem. Colder temperature would also cause the material to harden but a little bit of usage should "warm things up". Cold is also part of the working environment so again it shouldn't be a problem. Its a design decision and it sounds like they pushed the envelope to far in the hardness direction. 

Have any of the people with the problem put their machine up on a block to get the wheels off of the ground, pull the bottom plate(s)off, and fire it up to see what's happening?  I know it's something I wouldn't want to do at 15 below zero but if the machine isn't working, you have to take a look inside to watch the relative mechanical components and how they interact.  There might be some oil on the surfaces or insufficient contact force.  If the problem is intermittent, i.e. works when cold but not when warm, run the machine until the problem begins then inspect.   This is a long shot but is there a chance that the rubber ring might be slipping on the wheel?      

My experience points to the first gear being too high which puts undo stress
on the contact between the rubber and the plate, either while blowing snow
or moving the machine on an incline.   Any kind of water getting on the plate
would just make things worse.  I wonder if the new texture recently added by
Ariens to the drive plate's surface has anything to do with this as I haven't
had any problems with the completely smooth aluminum drive plate on my
10 year old Ariens (though its first gear is also lower).

This and the fact that because first gear is too high when dealing with deep
heavy snow  you have to engage/disengage the drive constantly.

Nobody with the tracked DLETs seems to have problems, and they have a
40% gear reduction on 1st gear compared to the DLEs.

It may also be due to sloppy parts assembly.  The drive plate on my old
Ariens is mounted on a sliding cylinder with ball bearings at each end
whereas the new plate is mounted on a swing plate that's just attached
to the frame.

Paul

brjl wrote:
I wasn’t sure if you kept your machine in a warm garage or not.  I only mentioned that as a possibility as your description of the problem is what happens to a machine kept in a warm garage under the right conditions.  When I say warm, I don’t necessarily mean heated.  Some people have insulated garages which can hover above freezing.  That’s not your case, but there is a reason for it.  It could be the material the friction wheel is made from as nibbler stated.  I wonder if the rubber from an older model that doesn’t seem to have the problem would work in the 11538DLE.  Maybe Ariens changed suppliers and the rubber part of the friction wheel has more plastic and less rubber in it.  You would think Ariens would be hard at work trying to solve this issue rather than taking the hit on their reputation.

Mac, you hit the nail on the head, you would think that Ariens would be hard at work to fix this problem, but it doesnt seem so. You cant believe how recommended Ariens was when discussing a choice of snowblowers at work and on the internet. Best machine ever made. My dad had a 13 horse Ariens back in the 70's, and of couse, I got the most use out of it as part of my chores. That thing was a monster and nothing could stop it. I thought I made the right decision by choosing Ariens, but maybe not.

Brian NH

I think that we'd have to give Ariens a chance to do something about it if
there is indeed something to be done.  I have not seen the issue mentioned
for last year's models so it could be something new, and winter just started.

Paul

pvrp wrote:

You are right Paul, I am giving them a chance, I guess the frustration of pushing the machine, after spending a lot of money for it, is hard to take. I can tell you, the dealer that is helping me with the problem is not the dealer I bought it from, but they willing to help me in any way they can, really good people and I know it is not their fault.

Brian NH

I'd have more than a bit of a problem waiting for Ariens to find a fix.  It's a fairly new machine,  manufactured by a company, that in the minds of many ,is thought of as being one of the best.    If their product fails to the extent that it will not work, someone had better be loading another machine (of any brand) onto a truck and be delivering it to me to use while my machine is being repaired.    Not sure if the owner is shoveling by hand or has been fortunate enough to have a neighbour helping him.  Either way, I'd be mighty p!ssed if this was happening to my new Simplicity and I'm expected to "wait" for the manufacturer to figure it out .   

What I would do is place the machine in the service position. (follow your manual)

Remove the cover exposing the drive wheel mechanism. With some WD-40 spray on the metal tube in which the disk drive wheel mechanism is guided (rides) on. The drive disc movement when squeezing the drive handle is maybe 1/4 inch but my guess it is binding just enough to prevent the springs from applying adequate pressure to allow enough friction between the rubber disk and metal drive disk.

That would cause problems in both forward and reverse. This is a guess, but I like to do things that are cheap and easy to do first.

I had a problem that was very close to your problem with my 1136DLE. Snowmann gave me the fix and it worked. Never a problem since. My problem was slightly different as binding occured in both engaging AND disengaging in forward and reverse.

http://www.snowblowerguide.com/manuals/ariens_snow_thrower_manual_1.pdf

mech12 wrote:

Ok, I'll bite, looks like my manual.

brjl wrote:
Brjl, this is not your manual. 924,XXX platform went out of production in 2004. Your's and Bob1031's are completely different machines.

Also, NewJerseyBT's problem is not the same as your's, so don't try to replicate his fix. He has the 924,XXX platform machine. Transmission is very different.


PK

Snowmann wrote:

Thanks Snowman.

Brian NH

My machine is back in the shop after speaking with Ariens.  It's in for diagnosis....again?  Geeeze I wonder what the problem is..Spoke with Ariens tech service and not much help there but I have to at least go through the motions - again in order to keep their eye on the problem.   It sent and email to the technical service person to try and get a loaner since I'm out a machine in the middle of winter but no call back.... In speaking with tech service, I asked the question of "What if they don't find a problem,,, then what and the answer was that they will send parts to rebuild the drive... I did find out that they initially tested the drive system with a rough surface drive pulley and then switched to a plated pulley which slips...Hmmmmmm...I pulled off the belt and bottom cover and cleaned the thing all up before the last storm.. put a rubber gasket inside around the belt cover and baffle and then duct taped all around the belt cover and any open hole in the unit where water could get in..  It looked beautiful.  Nice and silver and orange ... I'm giving them one last chance and then my next service call will be to someone in the legal profession.

bob1031 wrote:

Bob, I just had my baffle installed at the dealer and I spoke to the tech that did it. He has been fixing machines for years and told me that even though he has never heard of this problem, the baffle is not going to fix what is happening. But, like you, I am going through the motions.

Brian NH

Brian

Dealer put in a new textured drive plate yesterday and I'll be picking it up tomorrow.  Said the old one was the zinc coated plate which was very slippery.  If your machine is still in the shop, I would have them call Ariens and have them expedite the part and have them put it in for you.. It's at least worth a shot.  Snowmann had given me a part number of p/n# 526027.   We'll see what happens when the next storm rolls in...  !!!

bob1031 wrote:
526027 is the number in the current parts manual.  When were the bad ones installed ?

How can you tell if you have a good one or a bad one ?

Will Ariens issue a recall for this ?

Paul

bob1031 wrote:

Thanks Bob, I will be sure to call Ariens about the drive plate, it makes much more sense than that stupid baffle that they put on my machine. Please let us know if the new plate was the fix for this problem.

Brian, freezing in NH

Maybe we need to get snow tire versions of our drive wheels for machines equipped with the B&S engine.

brjl wrote:

Actually, the baffle is extremely effective (if it is installed correctly and not damaged or modified at installation). Every slippage issue I've encoutered or heard of (which has been almost Briggs-exclusive) has been rectified by the baffle alone except bob1031. Hopefully the peened plate will get him squared away. It hasn't been necessary in combination with the baffle in my experience and is much less effective as a stand alone measure.

I would also caution against home-made solutions (the crankcase gets very hot and could start a fire and anything that would interfere with the belt drive and drive plate could make the unit unsafe). Not to mention it could make the problem worse if the root cause of the water infiltration is not understood correctly.

I owned a very similar unit with a smooth plated drive plate and no baffle for 3 years without a problem. It was Tecumseh powered though. The Briggs equipped track drive models 926021, 022, 023 are equipped with the peened plate and the baffle and would be the units that demand the most from the friction disk (they have the highest traction and most weight , which outweighs any benefit from a smaller drive wheel). I've not seen a problem on any of these models, so that's a good indicator of what you should see (I've operated and worked on those models as well).

The protective baffle is standard equipment on 926,XXX units made for the last 2 years, and there was only a small number of units in 2006 that were Brigg's powered. Your units (brjl and bob1031) are in that category. I believe there is a service letter  that describes what is needed if slippage is encoutered with such models. Any Ariens dealer should be familiar with it.

Keep us all posted on the results of your repairs.

PK

Snowmann wrote:

Snowman, I hope you are right, and it looks like I may find out tomorrow, calling for five inches. If it does work, I know I will be dancing the jig and I can put this post to rest.

Brian NH

Snowmann wrote:
Would a new 9526 DLE, with a Techumseh engine, received by my dealer early December 2008  have
the "peened plate" ?  I have the better baffle / pulley cover.

Paul

pvrp wrote:
Yes.

I have the 926004 model with the Techumseh motor and am having the exact same problems.  The unit is a 2005 and I have had problems with the drive since day one.  I had it in the shop two times the first two years of ownership and they never fixed the problem.  The first year they replaced the friction disk, the second year the pulley assembly.  The third year Ariens blew me off and wouldn't respond to the problem, and the dealership didn't know what to do.  It started acting up again the last snow we got.  It was a whooping two inches of fluff and the temperature was in the single digits. After 10-15 minutes the drive wasn't working, and then after pushing it up the driveway through two passes it pick up again.  I finished the driveway, and pulled the belt cover, and saw nothing.  I tipped it into the service position and opened the bottom plate, and saw some ice but not on the plate.  Either way some sort of moisture is getting in there from somewhere.  Hopefully the baffle will work.  Does anyone have a picture of the kit they can post?  I ordered one, but I have no idea when it is going to come in.

fabianfledge wrote:

Damn Fabianfledge, I feel for you, I have been pushing my 11528DLE for the past year. Just had the baffle installed and used it for the first time, never stopped once. The machine is working like it was designed, finally. I do not know if the baffle will fix yours, because it seems like a Briggs and Stratton problem, but hey it is worth a try.

I would like to thank everyone who responded to this thread. I just hope that the machine continues to work properly, the snow today was 5 inches of light powder. The real test will be the heavy stuff.

I will say, I am more than disapointed in Ariens. To have machines out there that have a known problem, and not sending out a recall, is irresponsible. The dealer that helped me was certainly not at fault, they never heard of the problem, which is a problem in itself, Ariens should have alerted all of the dealers.

Ariens, sent the baffle to the dealer and the dealer fixed it. This is after a year of having the issue. Ariens knew exactly what the problem was when I called them. There was no apoligy, no offer of a loaner, no nothing. I would expect that if a company values repeat customers, they would have made this right. I do need a new lawn tractor and last year I was looking at Ariens, but not anymore. I do want people to know that I am very happy with the way the dealer handled the situation, very nice people.

Again, I want to thank people who tried to help with this issue. This is a great forum.

Brian NH

Brian,

  My snowblower has the same problem as yours, but mine didn't do it everytime I used it.  They do make a kit for the Techumseh engine, so there must be an issue with them, just not as bad as the Briggs maybe.  I am praying it will work.  I know how you feel about Arien's lack of support.  My snowblower was bought at an Arien's dealer and they never heard of the problem.  The snowblower warranty paperwork was all turned in to Ariens, why couldn't they let us know about the problem? What other problems are there that we don't know about? My family has had Ariens forever.  My dad still uses a 1967 model, and it works great.  If the baffle doesn't fix the problem I guess I will try and trade it in, and my next snowblower will not be an Ariens.

I posted a rant on the "John Deere 1130 SE" thread that deals with this.

The short version is that it seems to me that the root cause of the problem is that the friction disk, as implemented, needs to be dry. The problem is that the blower works in an inherently wet environment. The traction system clutch/speed control should work in a wet environment.

At the same time it is good to "hear" from Snowman that newer models at least have a work around in place to alleviate the problem.

I just received the baffle kit for my model.  It really isn't designed to prevent the water from getting in, it just diverts it like a rain gutter.  I will install it and see what happens.  Hopefully this is the fix I have been waiting for.

fabianfledge wrote:

Try it out, you are right about the water being diverted, and so far it has worked for the past two snow storms. I took the cover off and looked at it for the first time yesterday. Two plates, water runs down the first plate, and hits the second plate. Water ends up running off both sides of the snow blower. So far, so good. I hope you have the same result.

Brian NH

brjl wrote:

??? Actually the 11528DLE water baffle is one plate (any 926,XXX series model). The 921,XXX models are two plates. I hope the dealer put the right one on your machine or it probably won't work right.

PK

Snowmann wrote:

Oh boy, I really needed to hear that, I guess I better do some checking, thanks Snowman.

Brian NH

I installed the kit today.  It wasn't difficult.  I just have to wait for snow to see if it works.  It may take several blowing sessions to determine if it is fixed,  but I will post back to let you know.

fabianfledge wrote:

Was it two pieces?

Snowmann wrote:
Snowmann,

Should a 926002 Ariens 11528LE with a Tecumseh engine need the baffle kit...or is it mainly for machines built with the B&S engine?

Thanks.

brjl,

  My model number is 926004 and has the techumseh engine.  It was a one piece baffle.

Paul7,

  Mine has the techumseh and has the same problem.   Ariens makes baffle kits for Briggs and Techumseh equipped blowers. It just doesn't sound like the Tecumseh blowers happen as frequently as the Briggs machines.  My drive systems acted up on mine three times in about 20 snow blowing sessions this season so far.  A lot of it depends on what type of snow you are blowing , and if it gets all over the snow blower while you are doing it.  I am hopeful this is the fix I have been waiting for.

I will tell you I had an ariens old 1986 ish model 1032st and had drive issues also I have never owned another one I have a new JD1130se now that replaced a toro 1332 powershift which I have not gotten rid of yet it has motor issues not oil consumption or anything carb and governor issues ,if the jd doesnt straiten up it will be sold and will rebuild the toro because when it runs right it will blow better than any blower I ever had would have bought another toro but for the price they are a little crazy $2000 for a 28 inch machine  

Funny thing, I was thinking about selling my Ariens and getting something better, but, with reading the posts on the forum, is there anything out there that is made well, or are all of these companies turning out cheap units? Seems like the good names out there have been taken over by other companies and everything has gone to s#!t. My Airiens is not even close to the quality of my father's late 70's Ariens.

 Is it better to just buy a cheap unit and replace parts as needed?

Brian NH

If I had to do it all over again I would probably looked for an older Ariens and spend the money to rebuild it.  It would probably still be cheaper then the $1600 I paid for my 926PRO.  I bought the Pro because it was supposed to be "built like Ariens used to build them" but that is not the case.  It does appear like everything else....they don't make them like they used too.