Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

My driveway is about 150' long, 40' wide with a pretty good slope.  I also need to go along the side of the house to maintain access to the propane tanks out back.  Trouble there is the snow and ice comes off the steel roof packing in right on the  path that I need to keep clear.  This can be tougher that the snow at the end of the driveway after the plow goes through.

I like the Honda with tracks to get through the tougher stuff.  Not sure if the Simplicity will tend to ride up on it.  The downside of the Honda is the manuverablility (lack there of) and the inability to move the machine at all when not running.  A plus for the track system might also be to climb the steps to my back deck.  It would be neat to be able to snowblow the deck, but not sure if it is realistic to expect even the track dirve to climb the 25 steps up. 

The upside of the Simplicity is it looked to be a little better built.  Purely subjective from looking at them quickly, mayby it's the big steel plates instead of the tubes normally used for handle bars that make if look heavier duty.  The Simplicity's cast iron gear case looks heavier duty and the drive mechanism seems like it might be more reliable over time (less complex and fewer parts.)  The other thing I noted at my local dealers was the directional chute control.  The Honda seemed potentially better.  Well designed mechanical system.  The  Simplicity seems more convenient with the electric control and is easier to reach.  I think as convenient as the electric system is, I would prefer haveing the mechanical system rather than look for replacement parts in an electrical set up.  By chance can anyone say if the electric chute control will ever freeze up?

I'm trying to not factor in the cost of the machine, as I hope it will last long enough not to care.  Is there really a clear winner among these two?  Is honda engineering that good that it will outlast simplicities heavy duty machine?  Is the track system worth the loss of some manuverability?  Hopefully there is no bad decision between these two, I'm hoping someone can make some more educated points on either machine to help me decide.  I hate to by one and then wish for the other.  Thanks for any insight!

Thought I would add one last thing.  My drive way is course gravel on a gravel road.  For this reason I also thought that the height adjustability of the Honda track might be better.  My Ariens always throws the rocks until there is a good base of ice/snow.  Sometimes it digs the lawn going down the side of the house as well.

I wish I could get both machines, that would be nice.  I'm prepared to bight the bullet on one anyway, but my wife would have something to say about two.  Yes the Honda is more, but not as much as I thought.  My local dealer has a pro series Simplicity 28" for $2000, and 32" for $2200.  At the local honda dealer they had a 1032" tracked for $2800, I forget what they wanted for the 28" honda, but it would ofcourse be a little less.  So in comparison the difference between the Honda and Simplicity is roughly $600.  If the honda is of better quality then I would be happy to spend the extra $600, I'm really only concerned if the auger gear box on the honda is as good or better than the simplicity, will the track drive hold up and somewhat concerned about manuevering the tracked version? 

If I could settle this issues in my mind I would happly by the Honda.  On the other hand, the only concern that I have with the simplicity is will I really wish I had the track dive when the white stuff gets hard and packed around here, and will I wish for the adjustable height of the Honda when dealing with the gravel?

The Ariens track drive (1332 DLET) is in the same price range as the Honda HS1132.  It is a very nice machine with all the bells and whistles, including onboard 12V battery for starting.  It had traction control and hand grip warmers.  I was considering the Ariens and Honda models for a while.  It was a tough choice though.  The Ariens has a taller bucket, auger diameter, and impeller.  The auger and gear case is very heavy duty.  Everything on this machine just exudes raw power.

In the end, I chose the Honda because there was more information available about it on youtube and the internet.  While there is a lot of information on the Ariens in general, very few people seem to own the Ariens tracked snowblower.  I also prefer the controls layout, lower stance, engine and hydrostatic transmission of the Honda.

If I had to do it over again, it would still be a tough choice.  If Simplicity had made a tracked model with electric chute rotation and some sort of traction differential, I would be all over it.  I just love the steel channel handles instead of the tubes and the overall solid feel of the whole machine.

I don' t think the auger gear box would be a concern or deciding factor among these great machines.  They all have shear pins for the purpose of protecting these gears.  If you want tough gearbox, consider the new Toro's.  Toro decided to eliminate shear pins because they are confident their gear box is tough enough.   Although there is some breakable link to disconnect the crank shaft to protect the engine.

I'm surprised that you have stripped auger worm gear twice within a year.  Did the snowblower pick up gravel stones but the shear pins not break?  Was the auger or bearings bind and not spinning freely?  Was there impact to the bucket side plates to cause bearing misalignment?  I find that the same failure within a short period of time means that the actual root cause (man, machine, operating condition) was not identified and corrected.  Whether these gears made to Ariens, Simplicity, or Troy-Bilt specs, it is unlikely that anyone would design and manufacture a component with a mean time between failure (MTBF) of 6 months.  That is just not acceptable at any price point.

It may be a good idea to determine the root cause of the stripped auger worm gears on you machine before dropping $2000 to $3000 on a new machine.  But if you have to, a Honda HS928TAS and a Toro Power Clear 421Q makes a nice combination to take care of your sloped gravel driveway and the deck. 

I'm a true believer in getting the right tools for the job.  I don' t know how big your deck is, but crawling tracked snowblower up 25 steps and putting yourself in danger is brave and impressive feat, but foolish.  I would have a lightweight single stage always ready on the deck rather than trekking a 300 lb 2-stage up and down those steps. 

When push came to shove I went for the Simplicity P11528E, the 28" pro series.  I went to look at the Honda this morning and tried it out.  It was the 1032, and it is a great machine.  I really liked the fit and finish of all the brackets and plates.  Love the tracks!  Then I left to purchase the Simplicity.  I didn't really care about the price difference, at least not at first.  They want $2500.00 for and Honda 928.  I'm really not knocking the Honda at all, I was impressed, but there were a few things I didn't care for.  I'll list them, seems easier that way.

-Tubular handle bars.  Wouldn't have been a thought If I hadn't seen the big C Channel bars used on simplicity.  I lifted and pushed on the honda bars to compare and wow they did move quiet a bit.  I'm sure they wouldn't break, the dealer had some older ones there and none were broken.  However, the robustness of the simplicity can be seen a mile away.  Honda chassis seem to be closer in design to the large frame Simplicity.  Although the Honda bars are welded to the chasis, not bolts to losen (good unless you did have a problem)

-Cables were nicely laid out and bunched together on the honda, nice professional look.  However, it made the simplicity look easier to maintain.  Maybe not, but at a glance there is alot to adjust under the control panel of the honda.  Also, I really didn't like the flimsy little choke pull on the honda.  I think I would break that leaning into the machine working it.

-Didn't see any grease zerks on the Honda augers.  At first I thought no bid deal I'll just take it apart, drill and tap to install a couple.  Then I thought I didn't want to pay top dollar only to have to tear it apart to do something that should already be there.  Also the smaller diameter of the auger shaft makes it look like the whole front is built a little light than the simplicity.

-Adjusting the Chute deflector.  The honda has a simple lever like most others, works but tends to move itself up as the snow blowing against pushes it.  Dealer said you can tighten it so it won't happen, but is then difficult to operate.  Simplicity seems to solve the problem by making indents that the lever locks into.

-Tracks seem great!  However, the only way to back the machine up really is put it into reverse.  This wasn't that fast when I tried it out, but similar to my experience with wheeled machines.  There are some areas Where I just pull the wheeled machines back as it's much easier and faster.  Can't do it with tracks.  When I tried it out it was snowing pretty good, 3-4 inches on the ground, and we were on clean pavement otherwise.  Made roads and parking lot a little slick.  Set the machine to the lower position, moved the hydrostatic full forward and engaged machine.  It sort of jumped at engagement, the front probably bit on the pavement alittle, and the tracks spun.  Machine stayed put until I pushed some on the bars.  This really sold me on the Simplicity, as I felt I was trading off some build quality and comfort of control layout and manuverability for the unstopable traction, only to see them spin.  I still really feel the tracks are great.  This was I'm sure not a totally fair test of there ability.  The machine was probably only unboxed and not set up properly, and conditions just right to work against it.  However, with my uneven gravel driveway which always has an ice base on it in the winter, I wouldn't be surprised to experience similar results.  Not that a wheeled one will be necessarily better in that situation either, but I couldn't compromise on everything else (in my mind) and not see a significant advantage when I tried it.

-I had spent some time with a good dealer that deals both simplicity and honda.  In short he didn't want to steer me, but felt the honda wasn't worth the extra cost.  Both machines were great and I would be happy either way.  As I said before, I didn't mind the extra initial cost.  The Simplicity was $2000.00 even, and would pay the $500.00 extra for a better machine.  As we looked at some of the older one he explained that there was pin in the hydrostatic trans that sometimes sheared.  Repair cost was over $800.00.  This included an update to the drive that the newer machines already have, and he assured me it solved the problem.  Some of the used ones were 8 and 9 year old machines that ended up getting traded and were for sale.  Owners didn't went to spend that much to repair a 9 year old machine and bought new ( the one owner we discussed replaced the old honda with a new simplicity, not that it says anything bad about honda really).  I really want to bite the bullet and buy something reliable for many years to come.  These older hondas looked to be in fairly good shape, but I understand the logic of owners that traded them instead of doing an expensive repair.  Bottom line, I don't want to have to trade a good machine because repair will likely be to costly to justify on older equipment.  Most parts on Simplicity are considerably cheaper from what I can tell.

-The Simplicity did seem more comfortable with the higher handle bars and controls.  The Honda handle bar height wasn't to bad, but I did really have to bend over to crank the chute around.  I suppose I would get use to it, and didn't really think it was that big of deal.  I did really like the smoothness of the Honda's chute crank.  One thing I'm not to sure on was the Simplicitys electric motor to move the chute.  I would rather have the Honda's mechanical set up.  I decided not to worry about it to much because I know that parts like the electric motor are simply and wiper motor, reliable and easy to replace at NAPA if need be.  The dealer assured me that they had been used reliably like that for some time, I'm hoping so.

The little things like the above mentioned chute deflector with indents to hold position are what sold me on Simplicity.  Honda seems to make products that are great, many of them are second to none, by putting so much thought and engineering into it that it's almost like engineering art work (the brackets and quality of the auger crank is really slick).  However, simple and rugged to me is they way to go for snowblowers, and even then things break.  I think, even though it may be minimal in reality, Simplicity has the edge here.  Not as fancy, but straight forward things that work.  Also most likely any repairs down the road will hopefully be easy and cheap enough to keep running it.

So, in the end, I got my Simplicity pro 28" for $2175.00 out the door delivered and serviced with tax from a good dealer.  Should be here tomorrow afternoon, can't wait!  No, I won't be trying to climb my 25 steps with it.  I am debating if it is a good idea to try it on some really hard snow ice that piled up when it got warm and is now nice and solid at 8 degrees outside.  Perhaps I should break it in on some easier stuff and forget about that pile until spring takes it away.  Any thoughts on that one?

As far as break in goes, don't be afraid to work it hard for short spells.  It's good for seating the rings.  Load and unload the machine.  Generally, a normal clearing of the driveway will be just about right providing you don't have a foot of heavy snow.   Change your oil after a couple of hours, check adjustments, belt tension, fasteners and enjoy.    

I could probably call first thing in the morning and switch to the 32" if it was much better.  I was thinking the 28" should be equal because of the narrower width, it also felt like it had a little more weight up front than 32" which I hoped would help the augers to bite in a little more.  I thought that was odd since it was smaller up front, but the dealer thought so as well as we were looking at them.

I was also wondering if others typically use the wieghts that can be added on, and/or chains on the wheels?  Does anyone feel they make much difference, or recommend to get them or not?  Also, I asked the dealer to fill it with a synthetic oil.  Seems everything is going that why so I figure why not.  They said they would pick up some Ams Oil from the dealer down the road from them.  For future use, does anyone recommend something like Mobile One or Ams oil, others?  Perhaps a particular type of grease as well?  Wish I thought of asking the dealer what grease they use, I could have asked them to switch that as well if needed.  I'm sure it will be good enough to get me started, then I'll hit with the grease gun anyway.

Great review.  I think my observations of both machines are similiar to yours.  However, I did not had a chance to test drive either machines.  I  bought mine when before there was any snow on the ground.

There's something about the clean and straightforward design of Simplicity that I really like.  The channel bars is the cat's meow.  It is solid and makes steering very precise.  The Honda is an example of thoughtful engineering.  It is complex and is expensive to fix if something does break.  The handles are tubular design, which does allow for some flex.  It is directly welded to the engine bed.  If and when it does break, it will be expensive and time consuming to replace.

As far as your observation of the tracks spinning on slick pavement, I can see that happening at full forward speed when you engage the drive lever.  The tracks overpowered available traction.  This is same as dropping the clutch at high RPM on slick surfaces, impressive wheelspin but doesn't there no forward motion.  It wasn't clear whether you had the bucket in the lowest position (scraping mode).  That would put more downforce on the front which in turn causes more resistance to the prevent the tracks from moving forward.  In my operation of the hydrostatic transmission, I would start out at a low speed and gradually increase the speed.  That's the beauty of hydrostatic transmission, you can drive it like a car.  Engaging the drive at full speed puts a lot of stress on the drivetrain, something one would not want to do often.

I don't think the Honda auger needs zerks fittings.  I checked out the assembly diagram and the auger is supported by bearings, not by a shaft that runs the whole side of each auger.  One can pump grease in there but I don't think it will help.

I actually prefer the Honda deflector control over the notches on Simplicity.  The deflector stays put and has never moved no matter how much snow is going through it.  In fact, it is a little tight now which needs a little bit of silicone lubricant to smooth it out.

On servicing the Honda on something major, I think it would require more time and labor to replace a part.  I spoke to an owner of an OPE store, he said that he had two Honda tracked machines that had oil leak.  The gasket had failed.  It took 4 hours to pull everything apart to get to the gasket and put it back together.  The cost of the repair somehow scared the customer and convinced hin to buy a new snowblower of a different brand.  I don't think it is as bad as it is presented.  These kinds of failures are rare.  The customer was probably steered into buying a new machine while the store owner fix up his Honda trade-in and turn around made a killing on the used sale.  The store owner came out ahead, made money on both transactions.  Unscrupulous but brilliant.

Enjoy your new Simplicity snowblower.  I would probably break it in gently to allow the gears, pulleys, levers to mesh nicely.  The engine will also benefit from not enduring sustained high load when new.  However, it's your machine, you can ram it into a ice encrusted snow bank if you so chooses.

Yes, it was down in the scraping mode/position when the tracks spun.  Like I said, perhaps not a fair way to assess the power of the tracks, but that is the way I have always used my wheel blowers.  I agree that engaging the drive at full speed puts stress on the drivetrain and might not be a good idea all the time on the Honda.  This is why I kind of prefer the friction disk of the simplicity.  You can do it all day long and not be concerned at all.  I don't want to have to pull a lever to adjust speed everytime I make a turn at the end of the driveway.  Most seem to feel the Hydrostatic is overkill and very reliable, but I get more nervous about the what if's when using a system the way I want puts excessive strain on it.  I know I can change a friction disk myself, and I don't think the parts to do it are much more than $30 or 40 dollars.

I really may be wrong on this one, but I would look really close to the design of the augers.  I believe the auger shaft on the honda and simplicity are supported by ball bearings at the ends.  However the augers themselves simply sleave onto the shaft and are held in place by shear pins.  The honda fits rather tightly on, and I didn't see how there could be room for any tipe of bearing.  I did not see a way to get grease between the auger blade and shaft.  I read in another post somewhere that their augers had seized to the shaft because of lack of grease.  This defeats the shear pins and caused serious damage.  Their auger assembly was replaced under warrenty luckly.  They said they tapped and drilled to install there own grease zerks solving the issue.  I asked my dealer about this, so we went and looked at the machines he had outside.  He said he thought I was right and it was a plus for the Simplicity model.  If I had the Honda I wouldn't necessarily be upset over this at all, but I definetly would be sure if this was a issue and install the grease zerks.  It's really easy to do and completely solves the issue.  Infact, even if they were actually supported by bearings, I would do this.  If nothing else the small area between the shaft and tube can't fill with water that sits there causing rust if the void is already filled with grease.  Simple solution that could make a great machine even better I think.

-----Came back to edit this post.  I was surfing around different discussions on the blowers and came accross this;

 

Re: Greasing the auger shaft assembly Reply #10   Dec 22, 2005 10:31 pm

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So it appears they have some method of getting grease in there after all.  Not sure I fully understand what end bolt they are referring to, or how it would give access to any void between the auger shaft and blade sleave?  Probably easy enough to figure out if you have the machine infront of you to look at.  Hope it helps.  Might add the grease zerks if it makes doing the job regularly easier anyway, guess I just like greasing things.