Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

So who exactly is still making snowblowers with the best parts?I keep reading about ball bearings as opposed to metal bushings or plastic bushings etc?Is it Simplicity?Or Honda?Do they use the better more reliable parts?A store next to me is selling a left over Simplicity Pro model 28" width with the crank handle for the chute rotator not the electric rotator.Would that have the better internal parts?

I own an Ariens aprox 5years old as well as a Honda that is aprox 10 years old. At work we have a 1 year old Ariens and a 1 year old Honda. I will tell you this. The Honda will throw snow much further than the Ariens at home and work. BUT ! my Ariens is much better built then the Honda. Much more solid. Heavier metal. And much cheaper/low cost replacement parts.

mikiewest wrote:

Don't bring the name of the product into the picture when shopping.  Look for quality components on all of the machines you're comparing.   Keep track of which machine has the most complete list of quality components.  Compare the price of the machines to determine if the machine with the best components is worth the extra money.  If in fact it is more expensive.  If you're looking at a couple hundred bucks for a machine that will be less costly to repair and possibly last five or ten years longer than the others, go for it.  That's the process I used to buy my Simplicity last year.  As far as I know, they're still being built with the good stuff.   

pvrp wrote:
Yes, I agree.  Its very refreshing to see somebody of his nature replying to questions in forums.  When looking at machines to purchase last year, I was very impressed to see snowmann posts and spoke volumes towards company values. 

Don't want to spoil the jubilation of all you Ariens fans but let's not forget.  An Ariens salesman is an Ariens salesman.  Of course you're going to hear all the good stuff.  That's his job. 

What I found interesting after reading the article was that he mentioned that many of the components will either last or outlast the designed life of the machine.   My question is, what is the life expectancy of the new Ariens machines?  Will they be around in thirty years like many of the older models?    Coasteray is obviously a very  well informed individual.  His questions are  a very good outline of what he felt might be deficiencies in the newer products compared to the older units.   Not having examined an Ariens to the extent that he has, it becomes abundantly clear that very many changes have been made.  Whether they are positive changes or not is yet to be proved.  Only time will tell.   For some reason, I get the feeling that given the trend toward planned obsolescence in manufacturing these days (washers, dryers, refrigerators, etc.),  the likelihood of a "more durable" machine than the old units might be wishful thinking.  We'll have to wait and see. 

Then there's always the Chinese import.  Where do they fit into the mix? Isn't this a the heart of the quality issue? Will customers spend $1300 on a Simplicity/Ariens in tough times when they can spend half of that  on a no-name clone? And if they won't or if not enough will, is there a market for quality products?  Have snowblower technologies advanced in any way over the last 20 years?  Few would agree that snowblowers are  better/more reliable products than 20 years ago.  And the primary reason most have lost quality is due to competition.  And yet the market is only getting more competitive.  Are we in for more of the same?  Where will it end?  I have heard of China import snowblowers but this is the first one I have ever seen  ($85 FOB Shanghai):

Engine power: 9.0hp-11hp/6.6kW

• Start mode: electrical start
• Battery: 12V
• Lamp: 15W
• Working width: 70cm
• Working thickness: 54.5cm
• Weight: 115kg
• Dimensions: 140 x 180 x 111cm
• Oil type: unleaded oil
• Fuel tank capacity: 6L
• Lubricant tank capacity: 1.1L
• Gas needed per hour: 0.8L/hour
• Type of transmission: friction disc
• Type of wheel: track
• Number of gears: five forward/two reverse speed
• Turnable chute: manually horizontal and vertical
• Chute one rotating angle: 190 degrees
• Chute two rotating angle: 70 degrees
• Certification: EPA/GS
• Warranty: two years limited warranty

• Delivery Details:
  FOB Port:
  Ningbo or Shanghai
  FOB Price Range:
  US$ 85 - US$ 100
  Lead Time:
  20 - 35 days

• Package size: 119 x 78 x (78 + 10)cm
• Loading:
  • 20-foot container: 26 pieces
  • 40-foot FCL container: 60 pieces
  • 40-foot HC container: 90 pieces

85$ !!  That's actually pretty funny.  Just buy one for each storm and throw it away after.
Not only would you be ahead financially but it wouldn't take up any room in the garage.

Paul

A few videos of these Chinese GIOVANNI blowers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMLb9H-TRLw&lt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFMwAek7S3k&lt

Looks like similar model under different brand name. Also another video on this site.

http://www.zonemotos.com/souffleuses.html

borat wrote:  
Sorry Borat, I'm not a salesman, and like most folks here, my paycheck is earned doing something other than surfing the internet at night perusing these postings. I am simply interested in the opinions here and have knowledge to share to help others. There is no sales pitch in any of my postings. I've not indicated anything other than factual details and technical assistance in my 6 years on this forum (or 3 on the other). There is explanation and supporting information with everything that I've written.

That said, I'm wondering about your "sales pitch". You've indicated in several posts that your Simplicity 9528 is built better than Ariens models, but only make a general reference to "bearings versus bushings". Can you clarify to us all what you're referring to in more explicit detail?

BTW, the Ariens' life target is 20 years. The machines can surpass this requirement with great consistency and can last longer with proper care (as many legacy units have done). And yes, many changes have been made. Manufacturing technology has evolved much since the "good old days" so to speak. Cars last twice as long now (maybe not Chryslers, heh...); with good engineering there is no reason to think a snowblower cannot last as long as its predecessors even without metaphoric Muncie "Rock Crusher" tranny's and Ford 9" rear ends. 

Sometimes it seems we are all standing around a GTO Judge saying "they don't make them like this any more" when there is an Acura TL sitting right next to it that spanks it in 0-60 and the quarter mile and lasts 3 times longer (no offense to anyone who likes Chryslers or hates foreign cars, and I'm not sure where all these muscle car thoughts came from...?, and I know the TL has nothing on the looks of a Judge...).

PK

Possibly as good or better then a lower cost U.S unit. ...............

"That said, I'm wondering about your "sales pitch". You've indicated in several posts that your Simplicity 9528 is built better than Ariens models, but only make a general reference to "bearings versus bushings". Can you clarify to us all what you're referring to in more explicit detail? "

I think your post over at OPE pretty much summed up the differences between the new Ariens machines which in my view are not built to the same standards as the present day Simplicity products.  Coasteray highlighted most, if not all of the items that he seems to think were changes in manufacturing practices that do not appear to be as robust as those found in older Ariens machines and are still available on Simplicity products, such as bearings, cast iron gear cases etc. etc.  Therefore, I do not see the need to re-hash them here.  You have put forth your position that you feel the new Ariens machines will be better than the legacy products and my position is that only time will tell if in fact that is true.   From the frequent number of complaints about Ariens machines recently, it doesn't take too much imagination to see that something is amiss.   Every manufacturer that makes changes to their product by incorporating less expensive components and construction techniques will alway explain it away as "improvements".   I assume that those same "improvements" have been the cause of the decline in the durability of large appliances and other products that historically had lasted twenty year or more but now are lucky to last five years.   I've been around too long to believe that cheaper components will extend the life of any product.  I believe that many others know this as well.   

I Agree with Borat.

It's ironic with all my questions from the other forum that there isn't a dealer within 60 miles or more from my home that actually carries Simplicity snow blowers, so I can't even take a look at them any time I want, good as they seem to be, to compare them with Ariens.  I saw one John Deere cousin the other day, and that was the 1332 model.  Simplicity models probably look like that one.  At least I have their new brochure.

I suppose that somewhat explains the inquiry about Ariens, besides the fact that there are plenty of Ariens dealers in my area. I can also access Toro, Husqvarna, Honda, and John Deere, but Simplicity?  Nope, not yet.  I have always had a liking for Ariens blowers, though my only experience with them has been at my school job with the ST1032 tank (with a cab) from the early 1990's.  We should all want Ariens' blowers to have an excellent build to last a long time because it's obviously good for all of us and the industry.   It's also hard to say what Briggs will do to Simplicity/Snapper/John Deere blowers over time.  Yeah, I guess only time will tell about any company's machines. 

However, hats off to Snowmann for the very honest and detailed look inside the Ariens machines from his engineering viewpoint.  I think we needed to know this.

I'm glad this discussion has been able to traverse two forums.  We all need to know this material, and I'm not only referring to Ariens, but Toro and Simplicity/Snapper/John Deere as well.   Well, Honda, too, but they cost  too much, and don't even have Easy Turn, power steering, or a differential. 

We all just want to see high-quality machines to be made well into the future.   Here's hoping the biggies will continue in that long tradition.

Geez, $85 Chinese blowers.  Give me a break.  I think I'll go out and buy that Troy-Bilt "Storm 3090" I saw at Lowe's (heh, heh...)

Off to Los Angeles for a week.  A break from our arctic weather and coming snowstorms in this week's forecasts.  Merry Christmas, everyone!

I suspect that either a "0" is missing from the end of the price or that is the bulk shipping price. I.E. Order 1,000 and its $85 per unit to ship them FOB somewhere

I'd also like to add my thanks to Snowman for his comments. The posting on the other forum was very good.

Comment on the less expensive material debate. Sometimes it has to do with availability of materials. For instance, my parents built their house using concrete blocks just after world war II. Basement rooms were only a certain size to minimize the span of the floor joists. It took time to build but looked and was very robust. Nowadays most basements use one or more steel I beams with jack posts to do the load bearing. You end up with more open space and more "decorating" options. Its faster and less expensive to do it that way ... now. I've always felt that ball and roller bearings were "better" but I can see that a lot depends on the details of implementation as to which is actually better for a particular application. In addition when you engineer a product there are always tradeoffs, thats why space shuttles cost more than large air craft.

Borat is correct in saying time is the ultimate tester but at the same time I think Snowman has done a lot to alleviate my concerns. either way I still lust for snow machines that I am still saving my pennies for.

pvrp wrote:
I believe it was $85 for shipping.

I see it listed for $1499 here:  http://www.edamsport.com/detail/prod/19.html

jeff72 wrote:
Ah.   I knew the Chinese could make cheap copies but this was something else.

I guess I was thrown by the term FOB which means the price without shipping.

Paul  (who wouldn't have bought one anyway...)

Weather snowmann is selling or not, I couldn't care less. Actually I think its quite novel and smart of ariens if that was the case. The future of marketing and possibly even sales is the internet. Grasp it as soon as possible, I says. But aside from that.  Snowmann has provided some great information on many things and helped many people, including myself.  Helping, can also result in sales, so really its win, win.  As I said before, I think it looks good on the company weather its for sales or not.  At least we are being feed information, what we do with it is up to us. I can choose weather I agree, disagree, believe or not. 

Maybe simplicity, snapper, john deere, toro, etc.. should take note. 

These made in china snowblowers are showing up more then ebay and a few websites. There is a person trying to sell these locally here in my town. Asking $1500 for 11hp. Have to be nuts to pay that for it. Though I haven't seen it and don't care to at that price. By a craftman with a briggs for cheaper, tho I really don't care for that either. Just saying.

As for $85 - 100 price. I too believe this to be wrong. Its not the price for shipping. They never give shipping prices, you have to contact them for that.  But if you look on that site you will see that all things in that category are priced the same $85 -100.  I have also searched other manufactures of snowblower units in china and the going price seems to be $350 - 500. So I don't think you have to add a 0 either.  I not sure what is going on there, but something doesn't seem right.

I have ordered directly from china before and have had good experience dealing with them for customer service sake. The product was great as well.  Why did I order from them? Cause the product I was going to by here was made in china, I got it for less the half ordering direct and came to my door in 4 business days, I don't know if I could get something in the rest of canada that quick. I was impressed and will order direct from china again if I need too.

The shipping on these units must be high tho, as they weight enough to put the price up there.  Minimum I have seen to order is 26 units. The crowd listed in this post eariler wants minimum of 100 ordered.

The guy in vancouver selling these has several websites selling many things from china. I guess he is fully into importing.  I should say tho, you should be careful ordering some things from china, as many may not meet regulations and could cost you problems, specially if your going to sell it.  Electrical items could cause a fire, lead, etc.. Be carefull

I found out with these new china built engines they don't sell individual parts a least not the people our shop buys from, an example being if anything breaks on the carb they send a WHOLE carburetor,  a guy brought one in, the recoil spring needed replacing (brand new MTD Bolens single 21inch) they don't sell springs they just send a whole new recoil, and for cheap.

In the two years since this thread was last active, I wonder what kinds of comments anyone has about their particular experiences with Chinese engines.  I think it would be especially good to hear from small engine mechanics and dealers. 

I think reliability is directly related to use, need and conditions. If you have light to average snowfall a few times a year and perform proper maintenance then many of the cheaper snow blowers will work well. I bought my first 'new' snow blower in 96 for $900, MTD, and it is running great, with original parts. This year, I will put new belts in it before giving to my Dad. Now in my current situation, way more snow, drifting, hard packed snow, etc, I needed an upgrade. I also needed something my wife could start and use in -30, when I travel. So I went with a more expensive model, that I know is reliable. No experience with Chinese products, but Japanese are very well built and reliable. There are 20 - 30 year old Japanese models out there, still running strong!

coasteray wrote:
I think that some B&S engines are made in China now.  I recently purchased a new power washer with an 8hp B&S Intek engine on it.  I have to say that if that engine was made in China then they're doing something right.  First pull starting every time, smooth power, etc.

As far a snow blower reliability I think that the older machines were very reliable but then again they were mostly featureless machines so there wasn't a whole lot to fail.  My Ariens ST504 has never needed anything, not even an adjustment, in 20 years. Of course it was a very simple two stage and as basic as can be.  My newer Ariens 11528 has a lot more features that can go out of whack.  Headlight, remote axle lock, remote chute controls, hand warmers, etc.  So while I would be thrilled if I get 20 years of trouble free service out of it, I won't be disappointed if something needs replaced or adjusted on it.  Just so the transmission, gearbox, and engine hold up. 

Speaking of engines, what usually blows out first...the snow blower or the engine?

Paul7 wrote:

if proper maintenance and usage is performed, I would expect the motor to outlast the blower, esp with a 4 cycle!

rubinew wrote:
Especially with the cheaper build quality of the newer blowers. With an older blower -- say mid-80's or earlier -- I would say the opposite.

Bill_H wrote:

Depends on what is considered normal maintenance. For me, anything beyond Cleaning, Lubrication and Belts, and Spark Plugs is extra. I would be surprised to see a blower, even one from the 80's, go 30 years without a pully, bearing, etc, being replaced.

The problem is, most average ppl can change blower parts on their own, sometimes with a little direction. When it comes to the motor, these can sometimes be repaired with cheap parts, but can be knowledge and labor intensive.

Ex. I had a Honda CRX that had a timing belt fail premature, bent a few valves, needed a tow home. The average person would have taken it to a shop, cost around $1000 to fix. For me, it was <$200 and a day in the garage, better than before the damage.

Tthe average 4 cycle motor 'should' be good for 1000 - 1500 hours of use(likely more, just a conservative average), with proper maintenace and proper use.

With an average of 50 hours/year, that is 20 - 30 years that the motor should be good for. I would be surprised to see the rest of a snow blower go 20-30 years without some form of repair.

I'd consider replacement of wear items (bearings, belts, drive wheels, etc) as normal maintenance, along with the usual clean/lube/oil change/etc. for "us".
In regards to "average" person? I don't think the average person would be here. Most of us will get 10+years out of a machine, the average person will get  ... 8, 6? The thin sheet metal on many newer machines will rust through in 4-5 years if not taken care of. Trouts sees a lot of old machines that need repair, he could probably give us a better idea of what the average homeowner gets.

rubinew wrote:

50 hours a year with a snowblower I'll bet is way more than the average homeowner puts on a snowblower. In fact, I don't believe that engine wear is the leading cause of snowblower failure. I'd be stunned if that were true. If I had to do a guess on small engine failures, #1 would be clogged carburettor. After that, you probably see failed/failing belts and rust/corrosion damage of some sort.

tkrotchko wrote:

Oh Yes, 50 hours is way high! I just used a high number to show that even with that kind of use, the motor should outlast the snow blower.

For the record though, I did put ~50 hours on mine, Oct-Dec of 2010, but my case is extreme.If I was to guess, the average is probably closer to 20, depending where one lives.

Well Just seen Paul7 post, so I guess maybe 50 hours isn't high for some other people.

tkrotchko wrote:
I don't know about that.  I live in an area that has less snow relative to others on this forum.  We get a few 5-10 inch snowfalls plus a few times a season we'll get the noreaster that will dump 12 to 18 inches of snow.   When we get a sizable snowfall my driveway takes around 1.5 hours by the time I hit the EOD and clear the mailbox.  THEN I do the driveway for the divorced woman across the street.  Then my snow blower gets passed around between 4-5 other able bodied neighbors that don't have snow blowers...sometimes I don't see it again until the next day.  I'd guess that each snow storm results in around 10 -12 hours of use on my machine.  Four to five storms a season and I'm at the 50 hour mark.

Paul7 wrote:

Fair enough, but do you consider that "average use"? It seems that you fall into that "extreme" category that is almost a commercial use.

tkrotchko wrote:
Considering that we only get a handful of snowstorms all season I thought that it was average.  I guess not though.  It's just that I'll often read about posters here using their machines to clear one 10 inch snowfall after another.  We get nothing like that where I live.  But I see what you mean...if it was just my driveway then it would be well below twenty hours a year.

I live in central Canada.  No stranger to snow.  We get an average of 83", just under 7'  per year.  My snow blower sees approx. 20 hours of use per year.  I, on the other hand see considerably more because if the snow doesn't warrant a machine, I'll shovel it. 

I've yet to see a snow blower with a blown engine.  I've seen quite a few in the scrap yard with the engine removed but seldom if ever with a damaged engine.  Not saying it doesn't happen but one would have to be very neglectful to let an engine destroy itself.  From what I've read, the old Tecumseh Snow Kings didn't like to run low on oil and gave little or no warning when they let go.