Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Hello All.

Here are my few complaints about my Ariens 1130DLE snow thrower. Over the last few weeks I have been getting my snowthrower ready for the years to come. After realizing how much it rusted in just one year, I figured it was best to start sooner then later.  I am super glad I started this now as some things haven't been easy. Like the removal of one rusted wheel to the axle. Anyway, won't rehash that here as its in the other post about it.

Here are my complaints. I really don't see why they should even be a issue with such a well built machine.  My first complaint is lack on anti seeze on integral components that should be easy to remove for maintenance.  Today I spent some time taking off the attachment pulleys (two bolted together for dual belts). I did this after reading how hard it could be to remove after a few years of operation. Things like gear pulleys, heat and hammering to remove it, seem to be common.  So why not anti seeze it?  Maybe they do, but after getting mine off today, certainly no indication it was done on mine. Granted mine wasn't that rusted and came off without much trouble, but it was rusting. Few more years and I am sure I would be in the same boat as the rest when it comes to tough removal.  So why not the few extra dollars to anti seeze these components?

My second complaint.  All the rakes that hold the bushings are screwed in with self tapping bolts. When you purchase the rake there is no thread in it, so you screw in the bolts which grab into the rake. I cannot understand why the rakes would not have threads? Why not a bolt with a nut on the end? Why is this a issue for me? Well I cannot seem to back out a bolt without snapping off the head. Then, I am stuck either purchasing another rake or trying to removing the broken bolts, which isn't easy.  I cannot understand why these rakes are not made so that they can come off easier with better bolt system. If somebody here has a trick on removing these self tapping bolts, please let me know. PB blaster does not seem to help at all. Just as a note, the rake is $9.95 and the bolts are $1.45 at my dealer. So with three bolts in each, it doesn't take much to need $15 in parts for just one rake.  With two on the auger, it will run me over $30 to get it out if I want to anit seeze it.  At least when I put it back together I can use bolts/nut. But would be nice if there was a thread in the rake.

That is it. These seem to be minor issues that ariens could easily rectify to make these machines easy to maintain. 

Cheers
Goofie Newfie

borat, I wasn't really being pretentious, though it may have come
across that way.  It probably was a bit of a challenge, but mainly
just some rooting for the home team.

I've come to the realization that snowblowers aren't really for the
average person, which may account for their apparent slide towards
extinction.  The fact that they are getting cheaper and cheaper,
therefore requiring more and more maintenance certainly doesn't
help the situation.

Take for instance the requirement that the oil be changed on a new
machine after 2 hours of operation.  How many new owners would
know how to do this ? (especially since when you go to remove the
plug/cap it's the entire pipe that unscrews and then you need visegrips
and, well, it's a real pain).  But I can't see someone paying a dealer to
come over and work on the machine after a couple of hours, and if
it was bought in a big box store there is no one to come over.  Once a
year maybe, and even then most people wait for the thing to break
before seeking help.

I think the handyman (I've yet to meet a handywoman) may be on
the way out as well, at least in my part of the woods, and you more
or less have to be one to take care of outdoor power equipment.

So maybe we'll all be forced down the Honda path where you pay
a fortune for the machine then pay a fortune to have it maintained
by a dealer, just like a car.  I don't think the cheap snowblower can
survive as a disposable commodity, they're just too expensive for
that.  Unlike something like a lawnmower.  The snowblower of
yesterday could be treated like a lawnmower because it lasted,
and could be fixed for a reasonable price when it broke.

The problem with the Honda route is that  we're not all rich enough
for it, and like I said before I don't find fancy mechanics well suited
for hard work.  So maybe we'll be forced to go back to hiring the
local kid on the block if we can drag him away from his computer ?

Paul

I've participated in another thread where it seems that the current Ariens cast Iron gear case has pretty well the same internal parts as the aluminium one. Those parts seem similar to the original aluminium case as opposed to the cast iron one. In particular the two rolloer thrust bearing seem to be missing. Do you know if Simplicity has done anything like that?

nibbler wrote:

Are you asking me if Simplicity have removed the thrust bearings (normally found the cast gearbox) from their aluminum gear box internals?  I don't know for sure but, if I were a betting man, I'd say probably.  The gear boxes are likely outsourced.  If they buy from the same source as Ariens & Toro, I'd venture to say it's the same set up.   Under normal use, the more robust aluminum  cased gear boxes should hold up.  My of Craftsman had them and they never failed in a combined twenty years of service.   However, as some have previously posted, heavy duty cast iron gear boxes and more robust internals will withstand the "beyond normal use" punishment.   That's the difference between a ten year service machine and a twenty or thirty or beyond year service machine. 

Unfortunately, we can readily see the downward sliding curves of cost and quality.  They go hand in hand.   What I find particularly irritating is the illusion that some of the premium brand names are trying to pull over on the consumer.  They still flaunt their superiority reputation, demand prices that at one time reflected true quality but no longer deliver the goods they did, even a mere ten years ago.  They want top dollar for a mediocre product.   Those of us who are familiar with and have had good experience  with these "top brand" names had developed a trust and loyalty toward their products.   While the loyalty of many remains, many of the products no longer deserve it.     

borat wrote:
Thats what I'm beginning to worry about. What really concerns me about the whole thing is the essentially cosmetic change of the outter covering. If the internals are the same then in my mind the performance will be almost identical.

nibbler wrote:
I'd say it's the other way around.  I think you're talking only about the gearcase but the issue is
more general than that.  On the outside, apart from the ridiculous square auger outlet, the machine
(and the gearcase) looks to be just as solid and well put-together as always.  If you look closely
you'll see places where they've cut corners but overall the machine looks pretty good.

It's on the inside that things have gone to hell.  Where there used to be massive bearings there
are now bushings, and not some thick bronze bushings that would probably be ok but these flimsy
thin plastic things (I haven't seen what the bushings look like in the gearcase).  And lately they've
even gotten rid of some of the bushings so there are no longer any replaceable bearing surfaces
in those places.

Things work fine at the beginning, it's what happens down the road that is questionable.
Problem is bean counters don't usually look very far in that direction.  I mean, where's the
profit if the machine lasts for twenty or thirty years ?

Paul

 I mean, where's the profit if the machine lasts for twenty or thirty years ?

The profit in the above is garnering respect of the consumer and capturing market share for having the best product of that type out there.   Ariens did that.  They established their huge market share on the phenomenal reputation of their machines.  Snapper/Simplicity and Toro did the same but didn't quite market their products as successfully as Ariens.  Their machines have always been as good as Ariens but sales never achieved the market share that they truly deserved.   Toro is not as far off the mark as Simplicity/Snapper is when it comes to marketing their snow throwers.  Toro also have chosen to down grade their machines while still advertising their legendary reputation for durability.  I don't think Toro has slid as much as Ariens, but the writing's pretty much on the wall when you see their products in big box stores.  Seeing a particular model selling for nearly half it's original (pre-big box store) price  is usually a tell tale sign that something's been compromised.   I figure it's only a matter of time before all of the domestic snow thrower manufacturers follow suit.  Hopefully not, but I think it's inevitable.  Now that Simplicity/Snapper is subsidiary of Briggs & Stratten, I suspect their "modernization" will happen sooner than later.  I predict that Honda will be the last to fall.  Japanese manufacturing pride and culture will resist  compromising the quality of their products despite the possibility for loss of sales.   They had to fight too hard and long to establish their reputation for reliability and are keenly aware of it's true significance.  They are also aware that they can charge a premium for their machines and there will always be a niche market for long lasting low maintenance snow throwers.     

End of sermon.    

I wrote :

>  I mean, where's the profit if the machine lasts for twenty or thirty years ?

to which borat replies :
Ah, the good old days...  Judging from the history of the Ariens company, found at :

      http://www.ariens.com/corporate/aboutus/history.aspx

we probably have Dan Ariens to blame (I bet he went to business school, and if
not his VPs certainly did  :-)

The problem as I see it is that the business world has replaced the idea that a good
product is something that is well made and preforms well, with the idea that a good
product is something that can generate a maximum of profit - at the expense of quality
and performance if necessary.  A good product is something that sells, not necessarily
something that works and lasts.

Unfortunately for us they don't teach mechanics in business school.

I can't see this philosophy lasting forever. I wonder when the decision was made to
sacrifice quality for quantity.  It would be interesting to know if there could have been
a sustainable point on the chart that was reached by maintaining quality, lowering
production and increasing prices instead of lowering quality, increasing production
and lowering prices.  I suppose there'd be a problem if it turned out that they would
have had to charge $10,000 for a Pro model.  I was expecting to pay close to $3000
for my 9526 (I paid something like $2400 for my 1024 back in 1999) and was surprised
when I found out the price, thinking it was a pretty good deal.  Until I found out why.

Here's an article that sort of describes what happened to Ariens :

     http://www.mrotoday.com/mro/archives/Cover%20stories/AriensON03.htm

Paul

Thanks for the article Paul.

While on another snow blower and lawn mower forum that many of you probably know of, I posted a long list of questions about Ariens snow blowers in regard to gear boxes, as well as  bearings and bushings.  Check out the good information in the thread.

Yeah, I noticed that post yesterday morning and was to tired to reply. That information is great and would be nice if all manufactures listed the changes in that manner. Guessing its inside knowledge that they don't want other manufactures to know, but its sure nice to see change reasoning.

Yesterday morning I was debating on copying and pasting it here for others to see. May be better then redirecting people. Just a thought.