Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Hello.

This may be a stupid question, but I am having troubles figuring out how to remove the wheels. Nowhere in the manual does it tell you how to do so. It mentions removing the wheels in one section about friction disc replacement. This model has a differential and maybe it makes it harder, unsure.  On the outside of the wheel there is a lock clip that I can remove, but it doesn't seem to release anything. I am guessing its there to hold the wheel in place, but it doesn't give any slack with it gone.  Could it be rusted on? There seems to be quite a bit of rust coming from around the wheel, main reason why I would like to take it off, to grease it up a bit.  The is also a triangle type mount bolted on to the main box chasis (rake/bushing?), this mount has three bolts in it.  I tried to remove these nuts thinking maybe it needed to be loose for the wheel to come off and of couse all the bolts cracked off VERY easily.  So now I have no choice but to get the wheel off so that I can get the cracked off bolts out of that bracket (rake/bushing) and put new ones in. This machine is only one year old and its rusting like no tomorrow. I have taken care of most rust now and the wheels are last to take a look at.

Hope somebody can help me get the wheels off..

Cheers
Goofie Newfie

The only thing holding the wheels on are the flat clips on the end. They need to be slid straight off. Careful on the right side so you don't slide the short tube axle right out of the differential. If they were not anti-seized well at the plant you may need to use penetrant (WD40, PB Blaster, etc).

Thanks Snowman;

I had a feeling it was seized up.  Going to pick up a can of PB Blaster tomorrow and give that a shot. Sounds like great stuff.  Once I get it off, maybe never seez will do the trick, to ensure it doesn't happen again. 

Cheers
Goofie Newfie

Argggg.... Almost regreting ever trying to take the wheels off. Here's a update.  for two days I have been spraying pb blaster in towards the axle from the front around the rim. Can't really get any pb in from the back around the bushing/rake, due to it being so tight.  I have tipped the snow blower on its side to let it run down the axel and it has, its ran out inside the chasis and collected into a rag I had in place. been spinning the wheel to make sure its going all around the axle.  The color of the pb blaster is yellow going in and super dark coming out.  So its eating either rust or grease off something. Looks to be rust to me.  Anyway, after two days of doing this and trying to take the wheel off at random times through out, nothing.  I have occasionaly been hiting the wheel from the inside with a piece of wood and hammer, even tho I know this is not good practice. Just trying to loosen it up a little.. Nothing, haven't moved a bit, nada, nothing. Same as where I started. So today, I took more aggresive approach towards it and got a blow torch and trying heating the rim around the axle.. Being super careful not to heat to much for the tire (air out).  That didn't work. So I tried heating the axle itselt and shocking it with cold water.. Nope, that didn't work. 

So I am super annoyed with this tire now and its really starting to dampin my ariens experience. I cannot believe the amount of rust that I had on the friction plate, axle, etc... How little grease was on it from factory and now the tire is seized beyound believe.  One year old machine, shouldn't be like that.

I know I have been told that this tire should just slide off with the clip removed, but after days at it and no movement at all, it make me wondering if I am missing something.  On the tire rim itself, on the circle of the rim that is on the axle, the is a little square hole.  What is this hole for? Greasing or is it a release of some sort. After having so much trouble I cannot get away from thinking there is a tool to shove it there to release the tire from the axle.  

Hope somebody can spread some light on that little hole and maybe give some more ideas on how to remove this tire.

Cheers
GoofieNewfie

Sorry to hear of your troubles.

I have no experience with Ariens.  I do have experience with other machines though.  All wheels that I've seen are held by a quick release pin on one/both sides or a quick release on one side and a bolt on the other.  When I bought my Simplicity last year, I pulled the wheels, painted the axles with Tremclad rust paint then liberally greased them up before putting the wheels back on.   Road salt will take it's toll quickly on unprotected parts.  When I do my driveway, I usually do the road end first then do the rest of the driveway.  That way, most salt is cleaned off the machine while clearing fresh snow. 

Not having a chance to look at your machine, I'd venture to say that your problem is most likely corrosion.  From your previous posts, it would appear to be a pretty bad case.  You've done pretty much everything that can be done to free up the wheel.  There are no bearings in the wheel so heat won't damage anything there.  There are probably bearings in the housing that the axle passes through.  You might want to make sure that you don't direct too much heat there.  Personally, I'd continue with the heat application around the hub near the axle.  You'll probably burn off the wheel paint but so be it if it's important to get the wheel off.   Put a wet rag around the axle behind the wheel to help keep it cool.  Keep heating and tapping with a hammer.  Keep the rag good and wet.  Don't want to start a fire under the fuel tank.   Is your machine still under warranty?   

Hi borat.

Thanks for your response. Since my last post, I have been out at it the whole time, after alot of work I manage to get one wheel off, the right side with the short axle.  Still nothing on the original wheel I started with.  I haven't heated it enough to burn the paint, but I have had it pretty hot. I do have a rag on the axle and keep it wet at all times.   Yes, my machine is under warranty at least I hope so. Its only one year old, warranty is three years. My problems are that now I to have tremclad on the axle inside and I am wondering if they will complain and tell me my warranty is void because of it.  Second, I have a car. Have to pay for it to be picked up and brought back. $20 each way.  Thrid, if it wasn't grease properly before, how can I know it will be again. I would like to get it off myself if possible and do it to my satisfaction.  Forth, My machine came with three years service included.  I didn't bring it in for the first one yet and I am wondering if that causes problems with my warranty. If so, going to really tick me off considering I have to pay $40 a year to keep my warranty going when they only do the simple things I can do at home. Grease and change oil, etc...

Maybe I should call them and ask these question tho, but scare to know as it may be to late. 

If I can't get this wheel off tho, I will probably pay the money to bring it over and see what they have to say. Funny thing is tho, if I didn't do this service myself I probably would never have know the wheel was siezed and in the future I would have no chance at fixing it.


Borat, you put tremclad on the axle under the wheel rim? Wouldn't it scrap off as you put the wheel on and off? I have it inside the housing on the axle, but planned on putting never seez on the axle under the rim, if the tire ever comes off.  Which would be better I wonder? I have had great experience with never seez.

Cheers
Goofie Newfie

The portion of axle that runs in the wheel is not painted.  Not that it would really matter.  There was enough clearance on my machine to slide a painted and  greased axle in with ease.  Same should have been true with yours before the corrosion problem.  I suggest you apply more heat.  If the paint isn't burning, the wheel isn't getting that hot.  Heat &  tap with a hammer.  It will break loose.  When you get it off, jack the machine up, start it and put it in gear.  Get a strip of emery cloth or sand paper and loop it over the axle to let the axle run inside the loop.  Slide the sand paper back and forth to keep more grit where you need it.  Get a wire pipe cleaner and run that inside the wheel to get as much rust out of there as possible.  I usually cut the end of the handle off the pipe cleaner and put the pipe cleaner in a drill.  That way the spinning action will do a better job quicker.  Grease everything up real good and put the wheels back on.    

If I am going to get the rim hot enough to burn the paint, should I remove the tire from the rim so that it doesn't melt?

The heat shouldn't radiate to the tire if you concentrate the flame just around the hub.  The objective is to have the heat expand the hub.  Try not to heat the axle.  Keeping the wet rag cool behind the wheel will help that effort.  Try to keep the rag away from the back of the hub.   You might want to deflate the tire while doing this just in case the heat effects tire pressure.   

Thanks Borat;

I am after heating it up enough to burn the paint now and still no give.  I am giving up on it and bringing it to the dealer. No choice, snow soon and this needs to be done.   I do have another question tho, in snowmans post to me, he advises me to be careful with the short axle on the right side. Making sure not to pull it out of the differential. My question is why? If I pull it out will it not go back in or will it cause damage of some sort? I am thinking I would like to pull it out so that I can put some never seez on between the short axle and the axle under it.  After all this rust, I can't seem to justify stopping at just the wheel when the short axle could easily rust on to the axle under it. So if I pull it out, what are the consequences?

Cheers
Goofie Newfie

Man!  Sound like that wheel is welded on.  You're making the right move bringing it into the dealer.  Timing might be bad though.  They might be busy putting new machines together and preparing other customer machines. 

goofienewfie wrote:
No worries about pulling the axle out of the differential as long as it goes back together the way you found it. There are some thin wall bronze bushings in that axle that are not so readily apparent. I could see someone pushing one of those out upon reassembly and not notice it.

PK

Hi all, new member here....

goofienewfie, I've been reading your posts with interest as I currently have a new Ariens on order.
Now I'll be sure to take the wheels off and grease the axles before using it.

If you don't have it already, here is the parts manual for your machine :

    http://apache.ariens.com/manuals/00660300.pdf

For some reason it doesn't show an exploded view for your 921003 machine but I'm presuming
that it's similar to the  926003 on page 12 (that 926 is probably a typo).

Now that you have one wheel off it should be possible to remove the other wheel by sliding it
out of the machine with the long axle attached (or is the short axle stuck to the long axle ?). 
If you do this with the machine opened you can catch the pieces as they fall off the axle and keep
them in order.  Then you can mount it in something like a bench-mounted vise, not tightened in
the vise but with the wheel resting on the vise jaws, and beat on the end of the axle to drive it out
of the wheel.  Heat the wheel like you've been doing beforehand (stick something underneath
to catch the axle).

I don't see what a dealer could do that you can't do yourself,  given that you seem to be fairly
mechanically inclined.  There is your warranty to think about I guess.  Your transportation
charges should be reimbursed by Ariens as I read in another post somewhere.

Keep us posted, problems like this always end up getting solved, it just may take some time
as you've noticed.

Here's your owner's manual if you don't have it :

   http://apache.ariens.com/manuals/00660400A_ENG.pdf

Paul

Hi Borat;

Yes, this wheel is on there good, welded would sum it up perfectly.  As for the dealer being busy, I would assume that your probably right, although I bought my machine this time last year and they had many machines on the floor ready to go. They never really starting moving them until the first snow fall, which is due soon. Then they went nuts.  When I bought this machine, I asked about their service as it was a major concern and he told me their service is top notch and even went as far as to say that they will fix it on the spot while I wait. I don't know if I will ever get to test that tho as I have to have it picked up and delivered. If I had my own pickup I would definitly test that statement.

Hi Snowman;

Thanks for the insight and the warning. I have been studying the assembly on the parts radar site and I have took notice to those thin wall bushings.  I am always careful to take notice of things as they come off and go on. As long as attention to detail is required, I think I will do fine with ensuring that this unit goes back together properly.


Hi Pvrp / Paul;

Welcome to the forum. Glad to here you getting a new ariens. A side from my recent troubles with the wheel and rust inside the chassis, I have been mostly please with the performance of snow removal. I too wish there had been a post similar to mine when I bought my unit as I would have done the same as what you are going to do. Remove the wheels and grease liberally. Some of the problems I have encounted with this machine are. The chute cables were not adjusted properly and some days the teeth of the gear wouldn't lock and the chute would vibrate freely in any direction the engine or wind wanted to move it.  The Chute rotation and deflection cables would freeze and were unless for about 5 minutes each time I started the machine.  Major rusting inside the axle chassis and even the friction plate. How little grease were on moving gears, such as the differential, chute control, etc..   The most obvious right now, the wheel being rusted so much it cannot be removed without major trouble.

Things that I still have to look into are. The belt is loose, so much that it eated a small corner off the plastic shield that was covering it. The chute rotation handle in the control area always hits the frame when I push it to the left. The right side has tons of clearance.

With this all said, I am still happy I bought the ariens as I feel it is well built/solid. Just some tweaking needs to be done.  I don't consider myself mechanically incline, in fact this is probably the most I have ever gotten my hands dirty with when it comes to machinery. But its my first major investment that I feel I can tackle. I mean a lawnmower is not that much fun, lol.. A car is to expensive for me to even think of touching.. lol.. Tho I do some maintenance on it. Oil change, plugs, wires, etc..    Lucky for me I have a shed that lets me work on this and have limited tools. This machine has been excuse to buy a few things here and there.. Weeee :)   But for somebody that doesn't have access to that stuff, I would imagine they may be a little ticked with this machine. Or maybe they wouldn't care, as it works fine really. It blows snow perfectly.  Without getting your hands dirty you wouldn't know the belt was loose or the tire was wielded on, or rust on the axle.  All you would probably know was that the cable freezes and you have to wait for the machine to warm up to melt it or vibrate it free. Minor annoyance probably for some.  The real problems for most wouldn't be unitl the belt broke or the machine rusted enough to cause problems for needing the wheels off. Then they would be in for it.  I guess I am being a little proactive and getting things ready for problems that may arise.

Thanks for the parts manual, I didn't know that exsist. I was always loggin online to look at the parts radar site.  The axle and wheel section looks to be exact as mine and I too suspect its a typo. The great thing about that manual is that I can print it off and the images are much larger then the parts radar site.

Thats for the idea of removing the whole axle. Truth be known I was thinking the same thing and wondered why nobody suggested it. This was another reason why I was thinking that I shouldn't touch the differential. Maybe something bad would happen if I removed it off the axle. lol.. See I told you I wasn't that mechanically inclined.  Tho, I couldn't seem to get my mind off the fact that it should just slide on and off and that it should all go back together nicely with proper care. Now that snowman has confirmed it and you also bought up this idea, I will definately try this before I bring it to the dealer.  The short axle appears to be moving freely and not rusted, so I should be able to remove the whole axle. Once I get that off the machine, I cannot see me not being able to get that tire off. Some really nice smacks hopefully will free it up and best of all I don't have to worry about the bushings and differential for heat and vibration purposes.

Again, thanks for the information and ideas.  I hope to share a few as I learn them :) .  I am thinking I will start a new post when this is done, with some of the things I have learned summed up for a new owner or a newbie to the whole thing.  I also have a idea to stop the cables from freezing. Not sure if it will work and it may be laughable. But then again, I am Goofie Newfie.. haha.  But in concept I think it may work.  Will test and see, will post idea and results and soon as this wheel problem is fixed.


Cheers All
Goofie Newfie

Just a footnote : it would probably be a good idea to put a piece of hardwood between the end of the axle
and whatever you're hitting on it with to avoid damaging the axle.

Paul

WoooooooooooooHoooooooooooooooo!

Wheel is off.. Thanks Pvrp.  I did just what you said. Removed the axle and smacked it out. Now to clean these parts up and put it back :)  Only problem I ran into was the roll pin. I never had a punch, so I ran off to get one, tried other things first, but nothing worked like the punch.  I did wonder how hard it would be to get back in tho. Not looking forward to that part, but none the less. Wheel is OFF! Yipppeeee :)

Inside the wheel and the axle it was rusted quite bad and felt like a very ruff sandpaper. Glad I caught this now. Soaking it in so pb blaster right now to cut off most of the rust before some light sanding.

Thanks to all the helped, certainly gave me the confidence and knowledge to get this done.

Cheers
Goofie Newfie

goofienewfie wrote:
Good news !  Roll pins aren't hard to re-install though it looks like the pin is up against the side of the box which
may mean using the punch to drive it back in which can be a bit awkward.  I don't know what size punch you bought
but it's easier on the pin if the tip of the punch is bigger than the pin.   The pin is a spring and its ends are a bit
tapered so as long as you line it up properly before tapping on it it should go in ok.  It's a lot easier when you can hit
on it directly with a hammer.

Just out of curiosity, how rusted are the clips that hold the wheels on ?  I really don't understand this design,
it just seems so flimsy to me.  Sure the clips do the job on the showroom floor but how long will they last in hard
work in salt saturated street slush ?  In comparison, my 1999 Ariens 1024 has four half-inch bolts holding
each wheel on.

Paul

pvrp wrote:
The roll pin is right up against a washer that is tight to the box, I have two size punches, the one bigger was definitely better.. Not much room to work at the roll pin, but I am sure I can get it back in. Just not without some hassle tho, always the way :)  I have the axles and differential all back and assembled, but its not %100 percent complete. Having trouble getting the bolts out of the rake that I original broke off trying to remove the one wheel.  All three are snapped off and rusted pretty good in there. Have broke off two screw extractors trying to remove them. Only one bolt left without a broken of screw extractor it in right now.  Any tips on removing them. The screw extractors I am using are a reversible drill bit type. I have seem another that are almost twisted square / diamond shaped without any drill grooves. Wonder if they are better?  About to give up on that and buy a new rake, don't imagine it will be that expensive.  The nylon bushing inside is in great shape and the heat didn't seem to do any harm to it.

As for the clips, they seem to be in great shape. Aside from being covered in rusted grease, they are good. Maybe the rusted grease helped :)  The concept seems to be ok, Not sure in the long haul. I am sort of glad that it was these clips as the bolt would probably caused more problems for me, according to the rust I had to deal with.

lol, $9.95 Cdn for the rake shaft.  Would have been better to just buy that originally. Cost me same price for screw extractor kit.  Oh well, least I still got three more sizes left to crack off some other time. :)

I ran into the same problem last weekend on my 3 year old 926DLE Pro.  I thought it would be a good idea to take the wheels while it was still "new" before they rusted on.  I was too late.  The right side wheel came off with a little work.  The left side is rusted to the axle.  It will come out but it's going to take the axle and the differential and everything else that's attached to the axle with it.  I decided to leave well enough alone for now.  I just have to be sure the right side wheel doesn't rust to the axle so that I can take the axle off if it should become necessary. 

I don't know how many people  already include removing the wheels as part of their pre-season checklist but in my opinion it should be in the manual, along with a specification for an anti-sieze coating that can be applied. 

I definitely agree. This should be in the manual under yearly service. I even think how the wheels are removed should be in there as well. Even knowing now how easy it is with it well greased. But they assume that wheel removal is common knowledge in my manual. With the rust it seem to be more to it at first, but would have ease my mind knowing there was not if written in the manual, then I would know it was rusted for sure.

Cheers
Goofie Newfie