Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I don't really need another project this winter but could anyone tell me if this BCS tiller is worth putting some time into? Right now all I know is that the cylinder in the italian (Acme) 8hp engine does not seem to move at all. There is what smells like diesel fuel on the top of the cylinder when you pull the sparkplug.  I checked the reviews on this web page and the new models seem to have satisfied owners.  I don't really need the snowblower part that came with it. Just the tiller. Any thoughts/comments/concerns are welcome. If you know the vintage of the unit that would be of interest to me.  The tires have a few very small cracks (where the wheels sat for a long time without much air)  but nothing that would concern me.  I don't have any information from the previous owner other than it's been in the family a long time, sat in a barn in VT, and the engine is siezed up.  It uses one of those oil bath air filters.  It has three forward speeds and one speed reverse. Would an inexpensive chinese (honda knockoff) 8hp bolt right on?

You may want to start  putting some of that liquid wrench on the nuts/ bolts of the blower housing and carb mounting hardware....they seem a little rusty. 

The electrode is the tip of the spark plug that the spark jumps across....If it is rusty,  the motor may have had water in it or sat outside without running for quite a bit.

Start by draining the bowl on the carb,   see what comes out.... (water, rust, oil, bugs, dead mouse)

drain the tank...

make sure it has oil in it.... don't worry about changing it at this point..

with the unit in the off/ stop positon and the plug wire grounded to the frame.       Pull the motor over with the rewind and blow all that marval mystery oil out of the motor top end into a rag or something..  The piston will shoot that stuff out the plug hole like a spray bottle.  

Clean the plug with a squirt of carb cleaner and reinstall it.. Put the plug wire back on.

As you may have heard the motor only needs---spark , fuel and compression to run....

To make sure all of these are within limits for operation, this is a what I do to troubleshoot... ( do this outside)

1) Take the air cleaner off and dribble about eight to ten drops of gas in the intake to the carb..

2)  Take the engine control and place it in the start/ run postion..

3)  Try to start the engine with the pullstart (pull it about 3 times)

  B) If the engine does nothing , try a little more gas and try  to  pull start again...(only do this a few times, you do not want to cause a fire hazzard by unburned fuel collecting in the muffler and engine)

4) Did the engine pop and fire off?  If so the compression is good enough to run and it has spark.... If not it may have deeper issues spark or compression,  and you troubleshoot accordingly ..

The carb is always the first to go, it requires the most maintenance... The spark and the compression are most likely good...( solid state ignition and you have to wear out or abuse a moter to ruin compression, and that takes time )

The story most people tell with broken equipment is " It ran fine,  then next time I tried to use it,   it would not start... " ..   Not..." I was using it and it blew up  or it stopped running and would not restart."....   See where I am going with this...

Sometimes I will sit and bottle feed the engine by dripping gas in the motor.   A sample hair shampoo or dish soap bottles or a little "one shot 2 stoke oil bottle with a hole in the lid filled with gas works well ( Keep big cans of gas away from the motor running or not)..   

I do all this before I go rebuilding or cleaning a  carb on a engine I may not want to fix....

Good Luck.

Friiy

 

So.... Underdog. You say it's built better than a Fiat?

Looks like it has already out lasted  most Fiats..

Friiy

My sister bought a Fiat once.  Oh the misery....
I appreciate the trouble shooting advice. The last thing I want to do is waste time and money on a hunk of junk. I was trying to decide last night where I should start.

So I'll follow the list and see where it takes me. My only issue to start is that I cannot tell when the choke is open or closed, when the throttle is full or off, and where's the ignition kill switch anyway?  There is also a strange square box under the carborator with a button on it.  It looks like it is connected to a fuel line of some sort. But it does not look like a primer.  The transmission clutch does not want to move (see photo below).

Start by draining the bowl on the carb,   see what comes out.... (water, rust, oil, bugs, dead mouse) (1st on my to-do list)

drain the tank... (OK, This will be 2nd on my list)

make sure it has oil in it.... don't worry about changing it at this point.. (it has plenty of old oil)

with the unit in the off/ stop positon and the plug wire grounded to the frame.       Pull the motor over with the rewind and blow all that marval mystery oil out of the motor top end into a rag or something..  The piston will shoot that stuff out the plug hole like a spray bottle.  (I did this last night, it sprayed out all over my good pants) 

So:

Clean the plug with a squirt of carb cleaner and reinstall it.. Put the plug wire back on. (This is done)

1) Take the air cleaner off and dribble about eight to ten drops of gas in the intake to the carb..

2)  Take the engine control and place it in the start/ run postion.. (No clue on this one)

3)  Try to start the engine with the pullstart (pull it about 3 times)

  B) If the engine does nothing , try a little more gas and try  to  pull start again...(only do this a few times, you do not want to cause a fire hazzard by unburned fuel collecting in the muffler and engine)

4) Did the engine pop and fire off?  If so the compression is good enough to run and it has spark.... If not it may have deeper issues spark or compression,  and you troubleshoot accordingly ..

borat wrote:

Yes, it has been determined that this ACME is an 8HP gasoline engine. The engine was custom made for BCS pre-1980.  If  the engine needs to be swapped out for another make (honda, briggs, etc) you need a $200 adapter. 

The Model Number Plate is riveted onto the cylinder shroud on the oil fill side of the engine. The  ACME gas model used on this BCS 2-wheel tractors is AL 290B.
The engine has a recoiling starter with cable.
The points and condenser for ignition are located in a square box with a button on it (directly below the carburetor and muffler).
The air filter is an oil bath with a washable plastic filter element.
The fuel tank is metal with a metal cap.
The muffler is a large (vertical) canister type.
The Carburetor is equipped with a metal float bowl.

This web site that was pointed out to me was very helpful: http://www.earthtoolsbcs.com/html/acme_engine_parts.html

Being very familiar with old machines that have metal fuel tanks, I feel obligated to tell you to ensure you thoroughly inspect the interior of the fuel tank for rust & dirt.  I have five old vintage Japanese motorcycles with steel tanks.  Fortunately, they are in fairly good shape.  However, the 1974 RD350 that I'm presently restoring had quite a bit of loose rust and debris in the tank.  I pulled off the fuel spout, threw a handful of  3/8" and 1/4" nuts and short bolts (count them before you put them in)  into the tank and give a good ten to fifteen minutes of shaking and rolling around inside the tank.   Then I added half a liter of varsol and shook it some more.  Poured out all of the fluid & nuts & bolts (count them again to make sure you got them all).   Once emptied, flush with hot water a couple of times them put a garden hose in the tank and flush it some more.  When finished with that, give it one last flush with two liters of boiling water and empty.  Leave the cap open to allow water vapour to evaporate.  I left mine in a warm sunny place for a couple hours then gave the inside a couple of very long bursts of WD-40 and swished it all over the tank. 

If you don't want to do the above, scrap the steel tank and get your hands on a plastic tank from an old snow thrower.     

borat wrote:

Yes, I looked in the metal tank and there is a small amount of rust. I was going to take it off and fill it with Evapo-Rust.  The manufacturer has instructions for doing this.  But I like your idea better.  Thankyou.

friiy wrote: No spark.  I do not think that the engine is sending an electrical current to the spark plug.  I unskrewed  the spark plug from  the top of the cylinder and then I hooked it back up to the spark plug wire.  Then I pulled the starter.  I watched the spark plug carefully and I did not see any spark.  Is this the proper way to check for spark? The wire that goes to the spark plug comes right out of the side of the crankcase.  Something inside of the crankcase that generates the electrical current may not be working.  That or the fact that the kill switch is smashed.  Something is preventing the spark plug from sparking.   I event tried a new plug just fo hoo haa's amd turned out all the lights so that it would be really dark and easy to see a spark on the plug.

Disconnect the kill switch from rest of the tiller,  keep the wire from tuching anything..,(kill switch wire)

The kill switch is most likely grounding to the frame keeping it from making spark... (   the kill switch is smashed against the frame and grounding out)

put the plug back in the engine and start it with some fuel...

Friiy

You have to ensure the spark plug is grounded out against the machine somewhere.  As long as the plug is resting against something metal on the machine it will be grounded.  You might want to secure it somehow.  It's tough to watch for a spark while pulling on the pull start and having the spark plug jumping around.  Take a bare piece of copper wire approx. eight inches long.  Wrap one end around the threaded portion of the spark plug and clamp (vice grips) the other end to a ground point on the machine.  If the machine has an off/on switch or a carburetor linkage activated engine cut off switch, you might want to have a good look at the contact points and wire connections.  If you suspect the switch, by-pass it with a piece of wire.  Also, that machine is fairly old and despite the fact that it's a good, solid piece of equipment, the electrics can be weakened over time and more-so if left out in the elements.  Personally, if you have continuity with the electrical system, I'd suspect that the points just need to be cleaned.  If you have access to the points, get one of those fingernail emery boards (like a fingernail file but made from cardboard/sand paper) and put it between the points allowing the pressure of the points spring to put pressure on both sides of the emery board simultaneously.  Clean the points up and give it another shot.  When testing for spark, do it in a poorly lit area.  The spark isn't exactly a bolt of lightning.  Good luck.

Lets not get him changing the timing or ripping into the points yet....   My guess is that the machine has a fairly good cover over the points mechanism that is weather resistant... much like my Koher..  My Koher has been in the elements since 1976, and I have changed the points once  (just because they are old)...  never because of a problem... 

I would recommend leaving the points alone until you try disconnecting the kill switch..   These points are made of the same material as the ones on my old bug , old, old Ford, old  Porshe and my old Hondas.  But they are not firing as many times as a car,  plus the unit only runs a few hours a week tops...

Besides the best test of a Magneto or secondary coil is a Magneto Tester,  otherwise the putting it in the engine is the best....   The dialectric resistance of the air in the cyclinder changes during the compression stroke..   I can get a Mag spark to jump 3 inches in a vaccum, and .035 under 18 psi..

Just food for thought.

 Put the plug in and try to start it...

Good Luck

Friiy