Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I don't really need another project this winter but could anyone tell me if this BCS tiller is worth putting some time into? Right now all I know is that the cylinder in the italian (Acme) 8hp engine does not seem to move at all. There is what smells like diesel fuel on the top of the cylinder when you pull the sparkplug.  I checked the reviews on this web page and the new models seem to have satisfied owners.  I don't really need the snowblower part that came with it. Just the tiller. Any thoughts/comments/concerns are welcome. If you know the vintage of the unit that would be of interest to me.  The tires have a few very small cracks (where the wheels sat for a long time without much air)  but nothing that would concern me.  I don't have any information from the previous owner other than it's been in the family a long time, sat in a barn in VT, and the engine is siezed up.  It uses one of those oil bath air filters.  It has three forward speeds and one speed reverse. Would an inexpensive chinese (honda knockoff) 8hp bolt right on?

With some help from the board, I found this code buried under crud on the side of the unit:
 BCS 712 7B
*55159*
DGM1471
MA 0M
Now I have no clue what these numbers mean but I think that the 712 is the model number. (Update: No these numbers mean nothing. The BCS is a model 715 produced in the late 70's or early 80's.)  And the numbers between the stars (*) is a serial number.
The clutch has some issue. It does not move when I squeeze the handle.  

HAve you taken the plug out yet?   I am wondering if there is rust on it.. ( the inside electrode... that is )

Have you checked to see if it is out of gear yet ?

Friiy

friiy wrote:

Friiy you are on a lucky streak.  Yes it was stuck in gear. It spins freely now  (maybe a little too freely?).  Hard to say how much compression but it does spin. I pulled the plug and sucked out some of the fluid that was in there. I took a small baby food jar of this fluid to my local auto parts store and they said it is  "Marvel Mystery Oil."  That stuff has a  strange yet familiar smell (kerosene?) and is not diesel as I had first suspected.  I wire brushed the plug but there was no rust  on it just the normal crud (not white or grey) and the plug also had some of the Mystery oil on it.   I have not found the electrode yet., nor do I know what one is.  Working on this motor is a little like working in the dark with all the  Italian. and the symbols on the choke, throttle and fuel valve have me completely baffled. My first impression of the Acme engine is that it is (or at least once was) very well constructed and  the  design leaves little to be desired. The pull starter is very beefy, the starter cord is made of  steel cable, and most of the moving parts seem made to last a long time.  Tommorrow I'm going to follow down some leads (thanks)  and track down an owner's manual and service manual. 

Have you determined if it's a diesel or gasoline engine?   Personally, being trained many, many,  years ago as a diesel mechanic, I don't recall seeing any diesles with a spark plug.  Usually they are equipped with glow plugs which are much different than a spark plug. 

You may want to start  putting some of that liquid wrench on the nuts/ bolts of the blower housing and carb mounting hardware....they seem a little rusty. 

The electrode is the tip of the spark plug that the spark jumps across....If it is rusty,  the motor may have had water in it or sat outside without running for quite a bit.

Start by draining the bowl on the carb,   see what comes out.... (water, rust, oil, bugs, dead mouse)

drain the tank...

make sure it has oil in it.... don't worry about changing it at this point..

with the unit in the off/ stop positon and the plug wire grounded to the frame.       Pull the motor over with the rewind and blow all that marval mystery oil out of the motor top end into a rag or something..  The piston will shoot that stuff out the plug hole like a spray bottle.  

Clean the plug with a squirt of carb cleaner and reinstall it.. Put the plug wire back on.

As you may have heard the motor only needs---spark , fuel and compression to run....

To make sure all of these are within limits for operation, this is a what I do to troubleshoot... ( do this outside)

1) Take the air cleaner off and dribble about eight to ten drops of gas in the intake to the carb..

2)  Take the engine control and place it in the start/ run postion..

3)  Try to start the engine with the pullstart (pull it about 3 times)

  B) If the engine does nothing , try a little more gas and try  to  pull start again...(only do this a few times, you do not want to cause a fire hazzard by unburned fuel collecting in the muffler and engine)

4) Did the engine pop and fire off?  If so the compression is good enough to run and it has spark.... If not it may have deeper issues spark or compression,  and you troubleshoot accordingly ..

The carb is always the first to go, it requires the most maintenance... The spark and the compression are most likely good...( solid state ignition and you have to wear out or abuse a moter to ruin compression, and that takes time )

The story most people tell with broken equipment is " It ran fine,  then next time I tried to use it,   it would not start... " ..   Not..." I was using it and it blew up  or it stopped running and would not restart."....   See where I am going with this...

Sometimes I will sit and bottle feed the engine by dripping gas in the motor.   A sample hair shampoo or dish soap bottles or a little "one shot 2 stoke oil bottle with a hole in the lid filled with gas works well ( Keep big cans of gas away from the motor running or not)..   

I do all this before I go rebuilding or cleaning a  carb on a engine I may not want to fix....

Good Luck.

Friiy

 

So.... Underdog. You say it's built better than a Fiat?

Looks like it has already out lasted  most Fiats..

Friiy

My sister bought a Fiat once.  Oh the misery....
I appreciate the trouble shooting advice. The last thing I want to do is waste time and money on a hunk of junk. I was trying to decide last night where I should start.

So I'll follow the list and see where it takes me. My only issue to start is that I cannot tell when the choke is open or closed, when the throttle is full or off, and where's the ignition kill switch anyway?  There is also a strange square box under the carborator with a button on it.  It looks like it is connected to a fuel line of some sort. But it does not look like a primer.  The transmission clutch does not want to move (see photo below).

Start by draining the bowl on the carb,   see what comes out.... (water, rust, oil, bugs, dead mouse) (1st on my to-do list)

drain the tank... (OK, This will be 2nd on my list)

make sure it has oil in it.... don't worry about changing it at this point.. (it has plenty of old oil)

with the unit in the off/ stop positon and the plug wire grounded to the frame.       Pull the motor over with the rewind and blow all that marval mystery oil out of the motor top end into a rag or something..  The piston will shoot that stuff out the plug hole like a spray bottle.  (I did this last night, it sprayed out all over my good pants) 

So:

Clean the plug with a squirt of carb cleaner and reinstall it.. Put the plug wire back on. (This is done)

1) Take the air cleaner off and dribble about eight to ten drops of gas in the intake to the carb..

2)  Take the engine control and place it in the start/ run postion.. (No clue on this one)

3)  Try to start the engine with the pullstart (pull it about 3 times)

  B) If the engine does nothing , try a little more gas and try  to  pull start again...(only do this a few times, you do not want to cause a fire hazzard by unburned fuel collecting in the muffler and engine)

4) Did the engine pop and fire off?  If so the compression is good enough to run and it has spark.... If not it may have deeper issues spark or compression,  and you troubleshoot accordingly ..

borat wrote:

Yes, it has been determined that this ACME is an 8HP gasoline engine. The engine was custom made for BCS pre-1980.  If  the engine needs to be swapped out for another make (honda, briggs, etc) you need a $200 adapter. 

The Model Number Plate is riveted onto the cylinder shroud on the oil fill side of the engine. The  ACME gas model used on this BCS 2-wheel tractors is AL 290B.
The engine has a recoiling starter with cable.
The points and condenser for ignition are located in a square box with a button on it (directly below the carburetor and muffler).
The air filter is an oil bath with a washable plastic filter element.
The fuel tank is metal with a metal cap.
The muffler is a large (vertical) canister type.
The Carburetor is equipped with a metal float bowl.

This web site that was pointed out to me was very helpful: http://www.earthtoolsbcs.com/html/acme_engine_parts.html

Being very familiar with old machines that have metal fuel tanks, I feel obligated to tell you to ensure you thoroughly inspect the interior of the fuel tank for rust & dirt.  I have five old vintage Japanese motorcycles with steel tanks.  Fortunately, they are in fairly good shape.  However, the 1974 RD350 that I'm presently restoring had quite a bit of loose rust and debris in the tank.  I pulled off the fuel spout, threw a handful of  3/8" and 1/4" nuts and short bolts (count them before you put them in)  into the tank and give a good ten to fifteen minutes of shaking and rolling around inside the tank.   Then I added half a liter of varsol and shook it some more.  Poured out all of the fluid & nuts & bolts (count them again to make sure you got them all).   Once emptied, flush with hot water a couple of times them put a garden hose in the tank and flush it some more.  When finished with that, give it one last flush with two liters of boiling water and empty.  Leave the cap open to allow water vapour to evaporate.  I left mine in a warm sunny place for a couple hours then gave the inside a couple of very long bursts of WD-40 and swished it all over the tank. 

If you don't want to do the above, scrap the steel tank and get your hands on a plastic tank from an old snow thrower.     

borat wrote:

Yes, I looked in the metal tank and there is a small amount of rust. I was going to take it off and fill it with Evapo-Rust.  The manufacturer has instructions for doing this.  But I like your idea better.  Thankyou.