Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I'm looking into a snow blower/thrower.  I live in upstate NY (near Albany) and would estimate we get about four to five storms a year with about 8".  There are the rare NorthEasters that may drop 15" every three or four years.

My driveway is on about a 3 degree grade, one car length in width for about thirty feet, then it opens up to about three car lengths wide (in an L shape) for about twenty feet.

Is a single stage thrower too small, or will it work but just take more time to clear the snow?

I see CR reviewed models recently and liked the single stage Toro CCR-2450 which I can get online (free shipping, no tax) for $537 at SpeedWaysales.com.

The two-stage model they liked was a Craftsman 88790, which Sears has on sale for $949.

I would love to hear what people think about the two-stage versus one-stage, especially if you live in the Northeast near Albany, and what models you think are the best.

Lastly, I HATE maintenance, and the Ariens web site scared the bejeesus out of me with their maintenance section (You must tighten the drive belt after 20 hours of usage.  Then in the drive belt section it says, "Be careful, if this is not done right you may be injured or killed").  

SnowRemover wrote:
Someone came here with an agenda.

Hi...

Answering a few of your points/questions...


"No one can show any statistics that the Craftsman is less reliable, it's all "word of mouth"..."
That's what is given here... "word of mouth" advice/opinions... mostly from experienced snowblower users... some from experts... some from others...

"Many people state their Craftsman is running great at 15, 20 or more years. "
Same with other brands...
... but like most any outdoor power equipment... today's machines are not built the same... a close inspection will reveal some of the differences...  some are obvious... like plastic discharge chutes...


"And if I buy an Ariens at HD, they don't service it, so I have to go to a local dealer who wants $1,049 for the Ariens that HD has for $900."
Buy it at the Depot if you want... any Ariens dealer will service it... possibly other OPE dealers too...

"Ariens is just too confusing to buy, too much maintenance without "risk of death",..."
"The Ariens is only a 3 year limited warranty -  requiring "The purchaser must perform maintenance and minor adjustments explained in the owner's manual." or the warranty is voided AND I have to haul the unit (not exactly light) to a service facility for repairs."
Is the Craftsman blower maintenance free ?
Dealers usually offer pickup/delivery for a fee...

"Ariens dealers won't let me return the unit if I don't like it (Sears will)..."
This is a plus... how about Home Depot taking a return ?

"... for $150 I can get a 5 year "in home" protection plan with unlimited service calls ..."
I suggest you read the fine print... ...and ask what the guarenteed turn-around-time is...
I doubt this plan includes "normal maintenance and wear items" that you dislike about the Ariens...


Deliberate often... decide once...

I know it's not EZ deciding...

Please let us know what you choose...


Dave...

Marshall wrote:
I did not come here with an agenda.  I came hear to ask people their opinion.  If simple questions like how do you move the snow thrower without finger controls is something that can not be answered, but the next sentence is "Sears is crap, Consumer Reports doesn't know what they're talking about, take my word and buy the Ariens", what should I be thinking? 

Don't confuse lack of a cohesive argument on some (not all, some) members posts with me having an agenda.  I can still be turned, if someone can articulate (and maybe provide some reliability links) with why the Craftsman is not all it is cranked up to be.

      SR,

     I like Murray or MTD machines for where I live. However if I lived in heavy snow country,

I would buy Ariens, Toro, or a Simplicity Blower. Which ever brand I chose, I would buy their top of the line!!! 

Just my 2 Pennies worth!

                                               Fred 

Dave_in_CT,

Me: No one can show any statistics that the Craftsman is less reliable, it's all "word of mouth"..."
You: That's what is given here... "word of mouth" advice/opinions... mostly from experienced snowblower users... some from experts... some from others...

And I whole heartidly agree.  So saying, my Ariens has been running great for 30 years is wonderful.  But when I also read, the Craftsman are not as reliable, but this person isn't a Craftsman owner and can't point me to one shred of evidence, I have to question their reason for doing so.

On reliability you questioned plastic discharge chutes...
I've heard others say the paint chips off the steel and it rusts.  I've yet to hear someone saying the chute broke.

You said: Buy it at the Depot if you want... any Ariens dealer will service it... possibly other OPE dealers too...
Good Point, thanks.

You said: Dealers usually offer pickup/delivery for a fee...
Not if I don't buy it from them (Home Depot).

Me: "Ariens dealers won't let me return the unit if I don't like it (Sears will)..."
You: This is a plus... how about Home Depot taking a return ?
Another good point.

Me: "... for $150 I can get a 5 year "in home" protection plan with unlimited service calls ..."
You: I suggest you read the fine print... ...and ask what the guarenteed turn-around-time is...
I doubt this plan includes "normal maintenance and wear items" that you dislike about the Ariens...

The guy across my street has a Craftsman and they have a 48-72 hour turn around time.  If he fails to maintain the unit, the unit is still covered by their warranty - unless he fails to add oil.

Thanks for the good pointers.

SnowRemover wrote:
By coming here and posting a question, YOU empowered the forum into a postition of superiority.  Do you usually ask questions of those whose opinions or knowledge you don't respect??!!



SnowRemover wrote: Emmo wrote: Any unit with the pin-lock system, regardless of make, will be more difficult to maneuver than one with power steering or a differential.

Most get along just fine with the wheel pin lock out.   Only one wheel drives the unit allowing the other wheel to spin freely allowing you to turn it around with minimal effort.  You would pin both wheels for that "Huge dump".  Others pin both together all the time and just man-handle it.  It is much easier to man-handle on snow or ice covered surfaces as opposed to a dry showroom floor  or driveway.

Guess I wasn't clear enough!

You have been all over the place in terms of blowers. You came here looking at a Toro single stage 2450 and a $950 Sears unit.  You've talked about spending $1300 on a Toro 828XLE.  I suggested an Ariens  926 DLE (Which is a Pro model and is heavier built)which many members have been purchasing for about $1350 and that makes me a jerk?


SnowRemover wrote:
Guess what......until JD Power starts rating them, we're stuck with C.R.  That doesn't make them right.  I trust personal experiences, friends, neighbors, co-workers far more than CR.  They all use things in the real world for extended periods of time. CR doesn't.  My .02!

NONE of us told you to buy  the "Lexus" (well Hickster did, and it wasn't a bad suggestion ie the Honda)  but since you do live in snow country and didn't want to be bothered by maintenance (let alone a breakdown) we were trying to steer you away from the "Cavalier" and at least get you into "Toyota" territory.

Sorry for all of the bad advice!

I'm done.

We are to provide you advice, we did. You don't like it or if it's not what you expect, we're sorry. How about using common sense and looking at these machines in person if you don't believe, it should not be thrown back on us to prove a negative of which is clearly seen in person.  

Go forth and ye shall see.

Marshall,  

                       Amen brother!!

                                                                      Fred

Marshall wrote:
That's all I was asking for, and for the most part I got it.  Everyone one this forum was fine until I posted this:
I'm down to two models - the highly rated Craftsman 9hp two-stage for $949, or the not so highly rated (by Consumers) Ariens 8.5hp, on sale at HD for $900.

After that,  EMMO responded "Now many others will prefer the Ariens,  better built, longer lasting, all steel construction, backed by a consumer concerned company."

Interesting because while Sears will fix it in my house for 5 yrs, Ariens requires me to bring it back to the dealer.  And the statement better built got me to thinking "How does he know?".  Should I be slammed for asking the next obvious question - who is this person and what data/information do they have to support his argument?

ChrisS pipes in and says "The Crafstman unit you are looking at is made by MTD.  We have beat this horse to death over on the old forum so I will summarize, it is not the machine for a person who lives in a snow belt. "

Once again, why is he saying this.  Can he point me in the direction of unreliable Craftsman?  I sure can't find any Craftsman owners (any more than Ariens) on this site who are complaining, so he is obviously getting his information somewhere else.  However, it is also common for people who own a particular brand to downgrade anything with similar/more features at less cost, proving to themselves they made the right purchase decision.

Jonathan joins in saying " I agree that the Ariens is the way to over the long haul in the Albany area."
Once again, WHY!!!

Then I ask " OK, if I go with the Ariens, how do you turn the unit around?"
Emmo responds "Any unit with the pin-lock system, regardless of make, will be more difficult to maneuver than one with power steering or a differential."

So it seems, if I'm going to get less with an Ariens, reliability is the final determinant.  I'm cool with that, but now tell me, where this lack of Craftsman reliability comes from?

ChrisS again pipes in to say "If your wife is going to be using it then look at the Honda 724 WA/TA's which are lighter or one of the smaller Ariens or Simp units.  They will still be hard to turn for her but will be small enough for her to handle also.  The 926 DLE Emmo mentioned is THE machine and she will be able to turn it with it's differential easily."

So it seems, if I want an easy to handle Ariens, I need to get a $1,400 unit - out of my price range.  I'm back to comparing the $1000 Ariens with the $1000 Craftsman.

Dave_in_Ct was nice enough to state: "You can "muscle" the machine to turn sharply... ...or......use reverse & forward to turn it in smaller increments with less physical force...
...or... easier yet......keep going forward while turning in a wider arc that you/she feel comfortable with..."

I really appreciated that, because now I'm leaning more heavily towards the Craftsman, but who wants a product that will break after a couple of seasons.  No matter how easy it is to handle, its going nowhere if its broke.

DantheMan chimes in with "I would recommend the Ariens over the Craftsman for your area and would rather go to an Ariens dealer( not Home Depot ) and get the 926 DLE."
WHY, WHY, WHY!!!  Can people at least back up their opinions?

I respond back asking "No one can show any statistics that the Craftsman is less reliable, it's all "word of mouth", yet I can't find any more posts about Craftsman problems than Ariens or any other company.  Many people state their Craftsman is running great at 15, 20 or more years. "

ChrisS sophmorically replies  " OK Snow, Then get the Craftsman."

Jonathon, on the other hand, makes a simple valid point "That said, if your gut tells you to go with the Sears and service warranty, I'd go for it."

Emmo gets all defensive and says " You asked and we replied,  I guess our collective knowledge and experiences don't add up to yours. Enjoy your Consumer Reports special."

MountainMan made a good point specifying some of the work he's done on Craftsman.

Marshall accuses me of coming here with an agenda.

Dave_in_CT makes some good points, but if I save the money at Home Depot, I lose the support from the Ariens dealer (the pick up at my home support, which he won't put in writing).

Emmo attacks back saying "Do you usually ask questions of those whose opinions or knowledge you don't respect??!!"

To which I reply, I ask questions to gain more information.  I don't know you people, so how can I respect you?  I want to see if you make a point you can back it up.  Otherwise, I have to conclude you are NOT someone I respect  and the information you bring is, at best, questionable.

I came here to get information.  As soon as I tried to delve deeper into your collective knowledge, most of you turned to attacking me.  Maybe they should rename abbysguide to AriensGuide, it would make a lot more sense.

SR,

        I feel slighted!!  You left me out of your " Tirade".

I said if you live in heavy snow country, buy the Ariens, Toro, or Simplicity.

Also said buy their top of the line machine.

What other advice do you need!

                             Fred