Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I'm looking for the best & toughest grass for use in a no sun zone of my yard. The area gets a lot of traffic, so it has to be a durable grass.

I appreciate all types that meet my needs, but also if a particular brand is better than the competition.

Before coming back to Abby's recently I posted this request for the best grass to grow throughout the web. Needless to say most respondents advised using the kind of grass you smoke, not mow.

Most seed companies have a shade mix. You are getting a pretty late start. You might want to try the week before Labor Day. How big an area? What is making the shade? If it is a tree, what kind? Did you do a soil test?

A local garden center or landscape company should really be able to help. I use two local (to me) seed companies Landreth, and Meyers. I get then at various garden centers.

You need the correct ph. It most likely can't hurt to put down some compost/topsoil mix. Seed, starter fertilze, and straw to cover (not hay, it has seed in it).

To choose a specific seed I would check with a good garden center or landscape suppy. You might not want to expect a miracle, grass likes sun.

http://www.fescue.com/

Not a bad site.

The Jonathan Green stuff is about as good as you are going to get, IMO, of the nationally branded seed.

A good local seed will be far better than any nationally branded seed you can think of. IMO.

What are your expectations? Are you trying too stop erosion? Do you want it to look real good, or will anything that is green and grass  do?

Careful, there is perennial and annual seed. A perennial seed mix might cost three times or more of what an annual seed will. Depends on what you want.

This is about the worst time of the year to plant grass.  It will start to grow just as the weather gets hot which is very stressful on the young plants.  You will have to water a lot to keep the roots (and therefore entire plant) from dying.  If you can wait until the fall, the plant will have two good growing seasons (fall, spring) to establish itself before next year's hot weather appears.  Planting now would not be cost effective.

LL

Good advise.

I do this most every year is some parts of my yard, very shady parts that get 115lb and 90lb Lab dog use. The fescue I have tried works good for looks but for heavy traffic it's not worth a damn. I switched to Perennial rye grass, it's tougher which meets my need better. Rob's right on the money about PH, a soil test is best. It could need lime, or a number of things. Might be just right?

• I rake the soil, break it up, where it's bare.
• Through down a mix of Peat/Manurer/Top soil.
• Seed it.
• Put down more of the mixture to cover it. Not much.
  
• Water
• Fertilize with a "new grass mixture". Very little hydrogen, a lot of potash and phosphate.
• Water
• Water
• Water
• Water
• Water
• Etc.
  

You might want to use a blend too. There's different blends out there for Shady Wet or Shady Dry and variations therof. I found that the ones with a high content of the Perennial rye were tougher.

Hi...

I have a similar grass situation too...

Fell for an ad on Zoisa Grass... sounds good...  "Buyer beware..." 

Bought and and planted "1,200 plugs"  ((yeah !   right !))  of it in a ~~12x40' area... thought it would (advertised to) plant twice this  area...

No results yet...  just 2-3 weeks planted... ordered more...    S U C K E R  ? ? ?  

Looks like "the hair club for men"... a hair transplant...

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If U get it... buy the expensive $25 drill bit for planting...

Mr. Nieve...    Dave___in___CT           

Dave, the Zoisa is good in sun. However, in northern areas it takes a while for it to turn green and in the fall it's amoung the first to brown. It's good for an area with long warm periods and sun. It's a tough grass when conditions are right. Give it time, keep it watered and fertilized.

Bahia works real good in the sun and shade down here in Fl.  Also St. Augustine does ok in the shade.

It will spread Dave. They have rhizomes that will spread once the heat hits the plant. They will take over, weather you like it or not.

robmints wrote:
Nothing is making the shade - yet. We're building a pool and a pool house. The pool house, according to my calculations, will create a 32 ft x 8 ft shady area. During sunrise, a bunch of trees shade the area, and the pool house will have an 8 ft overhang, shading the area from the sun at mid-day. Then the building itself will block the area during the evening.

The idea some had about later (Labor Day) I will probably take to heart, since the pool and building won't be complete until mid-July. I can live 45 days without planting grass.

We believe the kids/neighbors/family will lounge around this area during the hottest summer days and feel the area will be heavily used.

So do most here believe a mix is better than a specific type?

Thanks for the replies.

SR, I don't have a good enough handle, being in Oklahoma, on the local weather, rainfall, temps, etc. to recommend an exact blend or whatever. Maybe others know that area better than I do and can give you better advise. I would Google search the web for information on the best shade blends for your temp/weather zone. You might even find it on a site like Scotts.

Here's something I found for you, it's for Suffolk County from Cornell Coop Extension. Looks like pretty darn good info. The key is soil analysis. You might contact Cornell Cooperative Extension - Suffolk County for information on having your soil tested, if you're in that area?

SR, contact these folks.




http://www.albanycounty.com/departments/cornellcoop/programs/home.htm

Same thing, your county. 

Marshall,

That is a great link. I just called and for $2 they will test the soil, give me the results and recommendations.

Thanks again!

--SR

You bet, can't beat the price! Hope it goes well. Let us now what you end up with.

Hi SR. The advice to wait until the fall is right on. My lawn was looking pretty shabby from a crab grass invasion last year and I had hugh brown spots all over. In mid september I used a spike tow behind aerator first. Then I reseeded my entire acre with Scotts fall mix and topped it off with Scotts winterizer with weed control. The results were unreal. It came back so fast this spring and is really thick and green. The materials cost me about $225, but definetely worth it. Oh, I made sure to put down Scotts Halts with crabgrass preventer and fertilizer in April.  LOL I'd hate to lose that  battle again. And no, I don't work for Scotts, just good products. I've used other brands and felt Scotts had the best results.

                                                                                                       Kevin

LOL Kevin, if we wait past the end of Feb, it's too late to put down crabgrass preventer here. 

Scotts is the best!!

Marshall wrote:
I'm usually looking at a 12" base of snow.

12 inch base of snow

12 inch base of water here...if i had of known about all this water coming i might have put some seed in a month ago.

but its been so cold and wet i would only have mushrooms.

later chris

Top dress with organic stuff every 3-4 years or so, some chicken poop or something to fertilize, some corn gluten meal as a pre-emergent, over-seed once in a while in the fall. Cheaper, easier and better, healthier, more durable, easier to maintain lawn than any chemical based program I have seen or used. Dave_in_CT led me down the organic (with a little cheating) path, and I think it is great. Oh yeah, two more things, cut it high, and if you have a well, read the fertilzer bag that you put on your lawn and think about if you want the stuff in the bag in your water. I chose chicken poop, CGM, some organic stuff, and worm poop.

Robmints...

Thanks for the Organic plug... didn't know anyone was paying attention...

I like natural... not synthetic/man-made.. when it come to food / plants / living things like us !  

Natural/organic  DOES make a positive differnece... it does... I know this for a fact... self-proven on myself and living things...

Now... if I get closer to the natural/organic way... I'll be better off for it... I'm further away than I was 4 years ago... not a good thing for me...

...but a goal to work towards...

Small changes... big improvements !

Dave...

Dave,
You are welcome. But You get the thanks. Instead of paying the lawn service for the 3 or 5 time treatment, and killing the birds, and I think, my cats. It takes me about 2 hours a year, and usually less the $100, and my lawn has never looked better. Drought and everything. The only cheating I do is starter fertilizer if I need a patch. It's the way to go, I never have a worry about kids, or pets.

robmints wrote:
Can I fertilize with bubble gum? I'm not happy with the above choices in my water. :-)

--SnowRemover

I agree 100% organic. When i first purchased my home it was all new to me. My lawn was kind of run down so i asked questions and was pointed to SCOTTS . The first 2 years using it i had the best lawn in the neighborhood. All of a sudden i started having problems. first the grubs got bad. I called scotts and was told to use there insect controll. Didnt work ! Then the fungus took over. Called scotts and was told to use there fungus control. Within a year my lawn looked like poop and i spent over a grand in chemicals. I started online research and forum posting and was told about chemical fertz. They rob your soil of needed nutrients and cause shallow roots. They also cause thatch which leads to bugs and fungus. I purchased a dethatcher and dug deep. I then over seeded with a good quality mix. I then made the switch to Organic. First thing in the spring i fill my 20 gallon hose end sprayer with a bottle of beer and spray my lawn. a few weeks later i fill it with dish washing soap and spray the lawn. I then put down a bag of 100% organic fert. On the 4th of july i spray the lawn with beer again. In the fall i fert one more time. I cut it high and often and bag.  My lawn is as healthy as can be. no more fungus, or bugs. no poison. Use much less water and Much less money spent !

I feel sorry for you. in a few years you will be kicking yourself very very hard. your grass will look like Straw all summer and first thing in the fall. You might get 2 months of full green grass if you are lucky.  Once the zoisa takes hold, and it will, its gonna look like crap. If i were you and the stuff was just put in i would dig out every plug and dont miss one. Put some fresh soil in the holes and plant some fresh seed or sod. i have 5 neighbors all older that planted the stuff 10 years ago and let me tell you, its not a pretty sight. The zoisa is meant for florida,bermuda,california, places where you need consitent 80 degree temp or higher. Trust me when i say, remove it now before it takes hold. AND IT WILL. next year you will have green grass with a few small straw like brown patches, the next year a few more brown patches , the next year a brown lawn with a few green patches untill its all brown untill the weather hits 80 degrees then it will look ok for a month or 2 untill the weater changes and we get a temp drop and the straw is back.   Dave___in___CT wrote:

Hi Knee. With all that beer in the lawn, it must be a 12 step program.. Actually down the road I would like to research more on an organic program for my lawn. For now the Scotts has been doing a very good job.

                                                                                                                                 Kevin

I did pro lawn maintenance for 6 years back in the late 1970's early 1980's. Having handled all sorts of chemicals designed to boost this and kill that, I don't use ANY manufactured stuff on my own lawn. I'm sure it would all eventually end up in my well as it percolates down through the soil, and it is very harmfull to the "good" insects, and does not totally eliminate the "bad" insects. Organic is the way I go. It's healthier for me to handle, healthier for the lawn, cheaper to do, and I won't be drinking the whatevers that every bag and bottle I ever saw contains. If it is so safe to use, why does it have an 8 paragraph warning label about fish, wildlife, pets, spill management, washing hands, eyes if in contact, etc.

Where did you learn of the beer?

So when we say organic, are we talking about products that can be bought at a lawn and garden store and are they really cheaper? What types of products are there? Just curious.

                                                                         Thanks,   Kevin

TheKneebiter

I like your organic lawn approach !

Wow... Zoisa woahs !

My 2nd order of 1200 plugs arrived yesterday ! Now... I'm concerned... thinking... I do thank you very much for the information and advice ! More knowledge !

I don't like throwing away $100 +  of it... and hours of time to plant the 1st time... plus removing it now... hmmm....

I believe what you say... and will expect it... and may say "I shoulda' removed it then !"

I think I'll go ahead and plant some of the new stuff... but limit it to where I didn't finish... not touching the other area I planned on...  if it fizzles out... it wan't look worse than now... yes... more work... but that's OK... ( yeah... right ! )

But... I'm gonna' sleep on it for a couple nights... maybe I can re-sell it to some folks who want hair ! LOL...

Dave...

Kevin if you are looking for stuff at the garden center, Blue Seal makes some stuff. You can find a lot about organic lawn and garden care on the net. A lot. There was a guy on PBS named Jerry something that was big on the beer and soap and stuff. He had whole books with stuff like latex paint mixed with listerine to seal where you trim limbs off. I use Cockadodudledodo <sp> or better known as aged chicken poop. And corn gluten meal if I need a pre-emergent.  Lots of methods work just as good as another. And after a little while the lawn takes care of it's self almost. Good soil and good bugs, like worms  do a lot of the work for you. healthy grass keeps the weeds down.

Dave, if you are doing this for a lawn, I need to be in the anti-zoysia crowd. The rhysomes can be like a mini-bamboo, you will need a barrier (like a sidewalk)  to keep it from spreading and crowding everything else out. It can hold dirt with it's roots and is pretty durable and hearty. It does stay brown most of the year. It grows slow, but is hard to cut, and is hard on blades.

Jerry Bakers lawn book. A great book if you are into your lawn. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0345340949/102-8037479-8013740?v=glance    Marshall wrote:

Thanks Knee, I'll check it out.

Hi...

Organic lawn / plant food / most anything growing... I use powdered seaweed mixed w/ water and sprayed on w/ a hand held pump sprayer... fine stuff ! Inexpensive for the area covered and results... also shred and compost yard debris and non-meat food waste... and use it... mostly use both on the organic veggie garden and yard plantings...

Zoisa grass.. the area I'm doing is ~~ 15 x 35'... a shady slope that I drive the truck and tractor on sometimes... kills regular grass... soil washes into driveway... I dunno... brown soil ? ...or brown spreading Zoiasa ?    ...no wonder why my girlfriend made a face when she saw the Zoisa planted...! ...looks like the hair club for men ! LOL...

More Zoisa dreams tonight ! ... Phewww....

Dave...

Thanks for the tips and links guys. I was thinking maybe I could set my wife in a lawn chair in my tractor cart with a half keg, and let her go at it while I pull her around.  LOL

                                                                                                             Kevin