Abby’s Guide > Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) > Discussions > Briggs making Toro 2 strokes.

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buttlint

Joined: Oct 14, 2002
Points: 791

Briggs making Toro 2 strokes.
Original Message Apr 26, 2005 8:10 pm

Hey guys..
This may or may not be news too anyone....but Briggs will now be supplying Toro with 2-cycle engines for thier snowblowers.
Whether these engines are just copies of the R-teks...I dont know.

Does Briggs have its own 2-cycles that they will use?..I dont know.

Does anybody care?...I dont know. (Just dont turn me over too the OPE police!)

Please excuse the quality of the letter.....You guys make of it what you will.
Letter.

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buttlint

Joined: Oct 14, 2002
Points: 791

Re: Briggs making Toro 2 strokes.
Reply #8 Apr 27, 2005 6:44 pm

Rob....Are you too cynical?

I'll show you cynical, buddy!

So lets take a flying leap into the world of cynicism.
An anonamous sales rep that works for a big-ole orange and white chainsaw company, that comes from a country that we had a war with in the the 1940's and produces over priced junk tells me:
The reason that his company are producing 4-cycle engines too put in their equiptment, is because the OPE industry is subject too the same EPA laws as the auto industry. That is...there is like a "fleet average" for emissions. They are making these cleaner 4-cycle engines so that they can still sell the 2-cycle stuff that the people really want. (The "greenies" will buy the clean stuff too offset the dirty engines that cant meet the higher standards.) That way everyone is happy....The greenies can now cut down trees, knowing that they arent fowling the air.... and the whogivesa$hit crowd can now cut them down faster with a saw that wont wear thier arms out.
Win! Win! (As sales reps like too say.)

So lets extend this logic too Toro and Briggs.
Jump back 2 years when Toro had too drop the Duroforce engine because it wouldnt meet tightening emissions. (I bet Toro wasnt really happy too loose that Lawnboy market segment!)
I may be way off track here, but.......The 2-cycle R-teks look and smell a lot like a Duraforce too me? (Please dont ask for detailed analysis on that perception.)
So...Toro is not stupid. If they cant clean up the R-tek too meet future epa regs they are SOL. There goes the SnowCommanders, 3650's and 2450's. (People like them!)
YIKES!!! What's Toro going too do? Start developing a new line of small and light 4-cycle machines and just dump another popular 2-cycle machine that people buy and buy....like the Lawnboy, Duraforce?

As long as we are careening down this conspiracy highway.....What does Briggs get out of this?
They dont have a single stage, 2-stroke engine. (They tried once.)
They dont have a premier brand name like Toro as a customer.
All Briggs has too do is meet the epa requirements for the fleet and not just for one 2-cycle engine. Perhaps they have room under the epa "salary cap".

Remember though....This "epa salary cap conspiracy theroy" was presented too me buy a Saurkraut eating, saw selling weasle that still wont admit too me that my flat times were reduced by the goose-stepping company that he works for. (Cynicism is good for the soul.)

Emmo

Joined: May 22, 2003
Points: 1065

Re: Briggs making Toro 2 strokes.
Reply #9 Apr 27, 2005 7:01 pm

Well done Watson!.........er buttlint!

Certainly sounds MORE than plausible to me.....a win/win no doubt!

Its nice to have insiders among us!

Termy

Location: Washington
Joined: Oct 24, 2004
Points: 960

Re: Briggs making Toro 2 strokes.
Reply #10 Apr 27, 2005 8:38 pm

buttlint wrote:

Rob....Are you too cynical?

I'll show you cynical, buddy! So lets take a flying leap into the world of cynicism. An anonamous sales rep that works for a big-ole orange and white chainsaw company, that comes from a country that we had a war with in the the 1940's and produces over priced junk tells me: The reason that his company are producing 4-cycle engines too put in their equiptment, is because the OPE industry is subject too the same EPA laws as the auto industry. That is...there is like a "fleet average" for emissions. They are making these cleaner 4-cycle engines so that they can still sell the 2-cycle stuff that the people really want. (The "greenies" will buy the clean stuff too offset the dirty engines that cant meet the higher standards.) That way everyone is happy....The greenies can now cut down trees, knowing that they arent fowling the air.... and the whogivesa$hit crowd can now cut them down faster with a saw that wont wear thier arms out. Win! Win! (As sales reps like too say.) So lets extend this logic too Toro and Briggs. Jump back 2 years when Toro had too drop the Duroforce engine because it wouldnt meet tightening emissions. (I bet Toro wasnt really happy too loose that Lawnboy market segment!) I may be way off track here, but.......The 2-cycle R-teks look and smell a lot like a Duraforce too me? (Please dont ask for detailed analysis on that perception.) So...Toro is not stupid. If they cant clean up the R-tek too meet future epa regs they are SOL. There goes the SnowCommanders, 3650's and 2450's. (People like them!) YIKES!!! What's Toro going too do? Start developing a new line of small and light 4-cycle machines and just dump another popular 2-cycle machine that people buy and buy....like the Lawnboy, Duraforce? As long as we are careening down this conspiracy highway.....What does Briggs get out of this? They dont have a single stage, 2-stroke engine. (They tried once.) They dont have a premier brand name like Toro as a customer. All Briggs has too do is meet the epa requirements for the fleet and not just for one 2-cycle engine. Perhaps they have room under the epa "salary cap". Remember though....This "epa salary cap conspiracy theroy" was presented too me buy a Saurkraut eating, saw selling weasle that still wont admit too me that my flat times were reduced by the goose-stepping company that he works for. (Cynicism is good for the soul.)

I like the way you put that all together lint. I learned alot from that post and now I have a better understanding of marketing ploys that are out there. Did I ever tell you about the Scotts mower manufactured by John Deer? And when you pulled up the model number on it, it came up as a Murray? Great Post!

mikefla1

Let's get it!!!

Location: Lakeland Fl
Joined: Jun 20, 2004
Points: 377

Re: Briggs making Toro 2 strokes.
Reply #11 Apr 27, 2005 9:02 pm

Hey Marashall, If you don't mind please tell ,because I have a Scotts mower produced by JD. I would not recommend to anyone. It's a long story on that one. later Mike

Exmark 48inch & Bridges 36inch walkbehind, Scotts 21 inch walk behind mower,Husqvarna trimmer and blower, Echo PE200 edger,Weedeater & Stihl HL45C hedge trimmers,Echo CS440 chain saw and a Stihl HT101 power pruner, and a El Cheapo pressure washer.

Marshall

As Long As There Are Tests, There Will Be Prayer In Public Schools. ;- )

Joined: Sep 16, 2002
Points: 7730

Re: Briggs making Toro 2 strokes.
Reply #12 Apr 27, 2005 9:04 pm

mikefla1 wrote:

Hey Marashall, If you don't mind please tell ,because I have a Scotts mower produced by JD. I would not recommend to anyone. It's a long story on that one. later Mike

Mike, do you mean me or Termy?

Termy

Location: Washington
Joined: Oct 24, 2004
Points: 960

Re: Briggs making Toro 2 strokes.
Reply #13 Apr 27, 2005 10:53 pm

If you read my review on the Scotts mower in the review section you will see I was not too happy with it either. But for 5 years of use, what you going to do?

buttlint

Joined: Oct 14, 2002
Points: 791

Re: Briggs making Toro 2 strokes.
Reply #14 Apr 28, 2005 8:50 am

There are other benefits too this marriage.....unfortunetly the benefits arent headed the Toro dealers way.

Now that Briggs is in the mix, consumers no longer have too go too the Toro dealer too have thier warrenty engine work handled.
All they have to do is head for any Briggs dealer and they can handle it.
(That's not a new thing...Lots of Toros have Tecumseh engines and have had them for years.)
But for the schmuck that sits in the back room.....(The Buttholiness in particular.) He gets an instant pay cut.
You see....there are different shop rates for each manufacturer.....
In my particular case....Toro pays $55.00 per hr.....and Briggs pays $39.00 per hr.
(There goes my plush little corner of the market.)

But dont cry for me Argentina....
I am happy too take the pay cut if it means that those savings will be passed on too the customer.
(And pigs will grow wings and fly!)

Emmo

Joined: May 22, 2003
Points: 1065

Re: Briggs making Toro 2 strokes.
Reply #15 Apr 28, 2005 9:06 am

Sorry to hear of this situation lint.........................

As usual, win/win usually only makes for a good sound bite. Unfortunately, it seems in this day and age, for anyone to come up with a win, someone has to lose.
I think in this modern era, the win/win situations have been played out, due to heavy competition. My guess is that with Briggs becoming even more of an 800lb gorilla, they too will change the landscape of OPE service, the way Wally world did to retail.

I feel for you dude...........hang in there.

Marshall

As Long As There Are Tests, There Will Be Prayer In Public Schools. ;- )

Joined: Sep 16, 2002
Points: 7730

Re: Briggs making Toro 2 strokes.
Reply #16 Apr 28, 2005 10:40 am

Lint, I imagine most of them that have a Briggs on a Toro will go ahead and take it back to the Toro dealer anyway. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Emmo

Joined: May 22, 2003
Points: 1065

Re: Briggs making Toro 2 strokes.
Reply #17 Apr 28, 2005 10:54 am

I'm assuming that Briggs is now responsible for the warranty work on their motors for Toro, and thus lint will be paid the 39.00 rate, not the 55.00 rate?

I thought Briggs was assuming the warranty role for only the snow engine powered Toro products, or is it for all Briggs powered Toro?

I'm so confused....................

This message was modified Apr 28, 2005 by Emmo

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