Forum /cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl General >> Vacuum Cleaner Forum >> I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters /cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1144683796 Message started by bonelady on 04/10/06 at 11:43am

Title: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by bonelady on 04/10/06 at 11:43am I want to go back to a reliable, cleaner with bags.  What suggestions do you have?

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by RAT on 04/10/06 at 2:38pm Vacuums aren't a one-size fits all appliance.  For a good match, you need to say more about how you will be using the machine and what's important to you.  The type of flooring in your home, your budget, and any desirable features you might like will help to narrow down your choices.  Do you prefer an upright or a canister?   Do you clean with attachments?  Is filtration important - i.e. do you have allergies to dust or dust mites?  Do you need a light weight vacuum?  Some vacuums that are optimal for cut pile carpeting, don't work as well on berber.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by seeme_vac on 04/10/06 at 2:55pm ;DRat has it right a easy way is go to a Independent vac store and tell them what you are cleaning your budget and what you want the vacuum to do and in just a few minutes they will have answered your question and you may even take one home

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by RAT on 04/10/06 at 3:06pm bonelady wrote: I want to go back to a reliable, cleaner with bags.  What suggestions do you have? If you check out Consumer Reports, you'll find that Kirby has the best reliability for uprights.  Miele and Kenmore have the highest reliability for bagged canisters.  I believe Rainbow had the best reliability for canisters.  Note that many brands were excluded from the ratings. Sebo uprights, made in Germany, tend to be very reliable.    They are also available as commercial models rebadged as Windsors.  They are very quiet, have excellent filtration, and have easy to change bags.   Unfortunately, they are on the expensive side.  They have a lifetime cogged belt.   Sears has a pretty good selection of vacuums in the under $500 range.  In fact, Kenmore models did really well in the last round of Consumer Reports testing.  Sears should allow you to test drive vacuums.  If you take one home and don't like it, Sears has a pretty generous return policy.   There are some excellent brands that are vac store only.  Brands like Miele, Lindhaus, Sebo, Riccar, Simplicity, Lux, Premium Panasonics, and so forth will only be available at vac stores.   Although you have been very dissatisfied with bagless vacuums, you should keep an open mind.   Some don't have the awful pleated filters.  For example, the Rainbow canister uses water to capture dirt, and is easy to empty.  Although Dyson's may not meet your reliability requirements (reliability has not been established in the US), they are fairly hygenic as far as bagless goes.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by dualcyclone on 04/10/06 at 4:38pm IF you had a Dyson, you would never be 'sick' of cleaning or replacing filters.  ONLY on vacuums that use INFERIOR technology (non-dyson machines) does this occur. Going back to the smelly old bag is an acceptable thing IF someone does not or can not afford a Dyson.  Bags clog, which reduce the suction just like the filters in your old cleaner.  Plus, they cost money.  Not only for the bags, but for the belts and Hepa filters TOO.  I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would want to buy bags, unless they were so rich that money meant nothing to them. If there were ever invented a car, that used water instead of gas, who would buy anything else?  Can you imagine a car dealer saying "sure, there's that car that costs nothing to drive since it doesn't use gas, BUT, you should really buy a car that uses gas, to keep the gas stations in business."  Same with vacs.  Is there any reason to use bags, belts, or filters (when there IS a vacuum that doesn't need them), EXCEPT to keep the needy vac shop owners in business.  Bags, belts, and filters are extremely high profit items.  And we wouldn't, of course, want to make the vac shop owners do without.  Now would we?

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by RAT on 04/10/06 at 5:27pm dualcyclone wrote: IF you had a Dyson, you would never be 'sick' of cleaning or replacing filters.  ONLY on vacuums that use INFERIOR technology (non-dyson machines) does this occur. Going back to the smelly old bag is an acceptable thing IF someone does not or can not afford a Dyson.  Bags clog, which reduce the suction just like the filters in your old cleaner.  Plus, they cost money.  Not only for the bags, but for the belts and Hepa filters TOO.  I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would want to buy bags, unless they were so rich that money meant nothing to them. Dual, You have already told us that you plan to make a fortune repairing Dysons in your retirement, and that you have stocked up on replacement parts.  So your comments seem a little bit disingenuous.  Do you plan to provide free belt and clutch changes for everyone who needs one?   Most bags aren't all that expensive.  I have no problem paying a $1-$2 dollars a month for the convenience of bags.   I also buy garbage bags for my trash cans.   Even with a bagless, you still have to dispose of the dirt.    I really don't mind buying bags for my vacuums.  I don't see much loss of suction in my home.    I would rather buy bags and have a nice sanitary dirt disposal than to have to deal  with the dirt released with any bagless vacuum - including Dyson.   When you empty your Dyson, all of the tiny little dust mites, the dead skin cells, the dust mite poop, pet dander, and other crap is released.  These light particles do escape in a nice little dust cloud when you empty your Dyson.

Title: DuaRe: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by tiger21 on 04/10/06 at 5:42pm Dual, Like Rat I have seen you write about doing Dyson repair.You remarked about the belts , bags and HEPA filters. If you are implying that with Dyson , one will never need to worry about filters, or belts ,you aresaying the no-no word NEVEr. I have had two Dysons in the past week with a bad clutch and stopped up filters.  Bonelady wants to get away from that.  The Dysons warrantys went out a month ago. cost paid for clutch and unstopping filter $108.00.

Title: Re: DuaRe: I am sick of cleaning and replacing fil Post by Bruce on 04/10/06 at 6:19pm tiger21 wrote: I have had two Dysons in the past week with a bad clutch and stopped up filters.  Bonelady wants to get away from that.  The Dysons warrantys went out a month ago. cost paid for clutch and unstopping filter $108.00. Another prime example of misuse and abuse by the owner. How did you "unstop" the filter? Did you replace it or clean it? Which filter was the problem? We know the prefilter only requires periodic cleaning about once every six months. If the filter requires cleaning more often the user is either over filling the dirt receptacle [most likely] or ingesting ultra fine particulates such as dry wall dust, talc, etc.   If the vacuum is used correctly, you won't see these problems, including premature clutch/belt failures. Any brand vacuum on this planet operated in the wrong hands is going to prematurely fail.

Title: Re: DuaRe: I am sick of cleaning and replacing fil Post by HARDSELL on 04/10/06 at 6:32pm tiger21 wrote: Dual, Like Rat I have seen you write about doing Dyson repair.You remarked about the belts , bags and HEPA filters. If you are implying that with Dyson , one will never need to worry about filters, or belts ,you aresaying the no-no word NEVEr. I have had two Dysons in the past week with a bad clutch and stopped up filters.  Bonelady wants to get away from that.  The Dysons warrantys went out a month ago. cost paid for clutch and unstopping filter $108.00. What other brands did you repair, How many, and what were the costs to repair them?

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by vacuuman on 04/10/06 at 9:37pm I would also say that going to a indipendant vac shop is the best way to see what good quality vacuums are available.  Like you, I also prefer bag vacuums to bagless, they are much cleaner to empty and have less maintenence.   Some brands that I have been impressed with are Royal, Simplicity, Riccar, Miele, Lindhaus, and Sebo.  These brands tend to be very reliable, and clean well.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by tiger21 on 04/11/06 at 12:01am Hardsell, Besides the Dysons, I had 3 Kirbys with broken fans. G-4,5 and6. Cost to repair $55 @.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by tiger21 on 04/11/06 at 12:05am  It seems that every problem on a Dyson is abuse and misuse. It can NEVER be a problem with the cleaner. What about the boatloads that were sent back to England. Any truth to the tale from a Lindhaus rep?

Title: Re: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filter Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/11/06 at 7:07am Bruce wrote: Another prime example of misuse and abuse by the owner. How did you "unstop" the filter? Did you replace it or clean it? Which filter was the problem? We know the prefilter only requires periodic cleaning about once every six months. If the filter requires cleaning more often the user is either over filling the dirt receptacle [most likely] or ingesting ultra fine particulates such as dry wall dust, talc, etc.   If the vacuum is used correctly, you won't see these problems, including premature clutch/belt failures. Any brand vacuum on this planet operated in the wrong hands is going to prematurely fail.   Bruce: I believe you said that you use a dyson, Miele, and Rainbow for all your regular household cleaning?  You said you dump the dyson both inside and/or outside and it takes you only 2 seconds?  Are you sure? How can that be?  How often do you use the dyson and dump it?   And you use the rexair/rainbow also?  How long does it take to dump, clean and store after each use?  Do you use the rainbow daily, weekly, monthly?  Only special occasions? How often do you use the Miele? How often do you replace the bag?  How long does it take? What is the monthly and yearly cost of bags? Which vacuum (dyson, Miele, rainbow) is the best for you as a daily user? Based on your own experience would you recommend a bagged vacuum or bagless to our poster and which of the 3 would you recommend to her?  Why? Carmine D.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by VacOMatic on 04/11/06 at 11:45am It might help,  bonelady, if you can tell how much area you vac, how often you vac, and what you vac (peet hair? carpet dander, red clay, whole lotta stuff)? Some bagged vacs deal better with fine dust and large amounts of dirt than others.   Also are you a cannister or upright person? If Cannister; Hoover 3639 for serviceable can.  Most kenmores are good.  If you want quiet then Miele Solaris.  Sanitaires' new cannister line seems promising. If Upright;  Hoover Windtunnel or the high end Kenmores or Eureka Boss Smartvac.  Some of the Royal models while Less widely available are good workhorses. Vacs to avoid; anything made by EuroPro or Vax.  Dirt Devils can clean well but are the loudest vacs there are. For shopping, independent shop will let you compare but don't be hasty. Also, while Dysons do not have pleated filters (the bane of bagless), they still have to be emptied and have their filters washed every so often.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by bonelady on 04/11/06 at 1:29pm Thanks for all the responses.  I live in a 3 story townhouse with two cats.  So, Cat hair is the major reason for running the vacuum.  I have both Berber and plush carpet and use the upholstry attachment frequently.   I got rid my  2 Hoover windtunnels about 3 years ago, because the belt broke whenever I ran over some carpet fringe or caught anything in the cleaner.  It went to the repair shop about evey month !  I bought a $300 Sharp and was always taking it apart to clean it.  I also hated the attachments.  I then bought a Bissell that emptied very easily and cleaned very well.  It has now completely lost suction, except when I use the hose. I care about weight because I move it between floors, but if I find one I love I will buy two of them.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by old-timer on 04/11/06 at 2:13pm Have you considered a central vacuum system, advantages. no bags or filters to worry about only needs to be emptied 3 or 4 times a year 5 times the suction power of a portable vacuum,no suction slow down because no bags or filters to clog, all allergens are exhausted out of the living area. can be installed in under 1 day in new or existing homes and buildings. and investment that has no depreciation, unlike portables. when your sick and tired of buying vacuums ,this is the way to go. good luck, old-timer

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by Trilobite on 04/11/06 at 3:06pm Madam, With regard to your Bissell, could there perhaps be a blockage in the floor nozzle or agitator brush failure?

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by old-timer on 04/11/06 at 3:30pm Hi Trilo, i will guarantee the belts streched out , the brush rollor stops spinning , and nothing happens. Customers buy friction belts, flat or round sometimes 12 or 20 at a time. old-timer

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by HARDSELL on 04/11/06 at 9:29pm tiger21 wrote: Hardsell, Besides the Dysons, I had 3 Kirbys with broken fans. G-4,5 and6. Cost to repair $55 @.   Sounds as if you live a pauper's life.  With such small repairs do you have and alternate source of income?

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by HARDSELL on 04/11/06 at 9:35pm tiger21 wrote:  It seems that every problem on a Dyson is abuse and misuse. It can NEVER be a problem with the cleaner. What about the boatloads that were sent back to England. Any truth to the tale from a Lindhaus rep? Most likely is from user abuse. You talk as if the others have no problems.  Must be tough trying to make a living with nothing to repair.  Sounds as if you and the Maytag man have a lot in common. I would only believe the Lindhaus rep if he said very very small boats.  I know from experience that the Lindhaus is not an excellent cleaner and is not trouble free.  It is quiet.  Perhaps that is why it is not a very good cleaner.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by RAT on 04/11/06 at 9:50pm HARDSELL wrote: Most likely is from user abuse. You talk as if the others have no problems.  Must be tough trying to make a living with nothing to repair.  Sounds as if you and the Maytag man have a lot in common. I would only believe the Lindhaus rep if he said very very small boats.  I know from experience that the Lindhaus is not an excellent cleaner and is not trouble free.  It is quiet.  Perhaps that is why it is not a very good cleaner. Hardsell, So what data/observations did you use in drawing your conclusions about Lindhaus?  How exactly did you test this Lindhaus versus other excellent cleaners?  How many Lindhaus vacuums did you assess in making your judgement about their being "not trouble free?"   By the way, have you contacted Dyson yet to find out how much they would charge you to have a belt and clutch assembly replaced, should the need occur?

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by tiger21 on 04/12/06 at 12:28am Hardsell,  I sell Vacuum Cleaners for a living. Repairs come when someone doesn't want or need to buy a new one. I celebrated 50 years in the vacuum cleaner business last Friday.  I sell Aerus Electrolux. And yes I do feel like the Maytag repairman. I keep in touch with my customers and have very, very, very few problems. All I see them for are bags and after filters. I get referrals from my customers to see new people. What about you? My Father and a Manager from long ago said take care of your customers and they will take care of you.  Oh yeah I put on brushrolls when they wear down.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/12/06 at 3:40am tiger21 wrote: I celebrated 50 years in the vacuum cleaner business last Friday.   Congratulations Tiger on your golden anniversary in the business.   Carmine D.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by HARDSELL on 04/12/06 at 7:47am Carmine_Difazio wrote: Congratulations Tiger on your golden anniversary in the business.   Carmine D. I second that.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by old-timer on 04/12/06 at 2:20pm Sounds as if you live a pauper's life.  With such small repairs do you have and alternate source of income? [/quote] Tigers not a pauper[he's not even married]............. old-timer ;D

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by tiger21 on 04/12/06 at 5:19pm Old Timer,  I am happily married. My wife has her opinions about the cleaners out there from helping repair them. She didn't think she would like it but does.  Her opinion of Dyson is ughhhh. She doesn't like them. Same with the Hoover Z. She likes the Aerus upright and the Guardian canister. It was her choice of what she wanted ,not mine.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by Bruce on 04/12/06 at 6:16pm tiger21 wrote: She likes the Aerus upright and the Guardian canister. It was her choice of what she wanted ,not mine. Well of course she does! It's the brand you sell ::)

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by tiger21 on 04/12/06 at 6:37pm  The wife and I have an understanding. If she sees a cleaner she wants I would get it for her. I have a preference for the brand I sell after 50 years of working on vacuums. So if my wife wanted  a Dyson I would have gotten one for her. She gets a chance many times to try different brands out. She has had the chance to try Dyson many times and didn't like it.  Just to let you know I believe my wife has a good head on her shoulder and can make up her own mind.  I like Chrysler products and my wife Ford. So she's got her brand and I nave mine.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by HARDSELL on 04/12/06 at 7:33pm tiger21 wrote:  The wife and I have an understanding. If she sees a cleaner she wants I would get it for her. I have a preference for the brand I sell after 50 years of working on vacuums. So if my wife wanted  a Dyson I would have gotten one for her. She gets a chance many times to try different brands out. She has had the chance to try Dyson many times and didn't like it.  Just to let you know I believe my wife has a good head on her shoulder and can make up her own mind.  I like Chrysler products and my wife Ford. So she's got her brand and I nave mine. If you ever decide on the best get a Dyson and a Lexus.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by Mike_W. on 04/13/06 at 4:45am There is no BEST or PERFECT vacuum cleaner :)

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/13/06 at 6:30am Bruce wrote: Well of course she does! It's the brand you sell ::) Smart lady!  Lucky man! Carmine D.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/13/06 at 6:44am Mike_W. wrote: There is no BEST or PERFECT vacuum cleaner :) I would say that there are better and best vacuums (or to use your word "perfect") for particular persons and their needs and likes.  When a vacuum professional matches that vacuum with the person, or the person is fortunate enough to select that vacuum on his/her own, it will be the best and perfect vacuum for them (at least for the time). With time and changes in events and circumstances, the best and perfect vacuum may change.  Frequently the staunch Kirby, Lux, and Rainbow users after decades (and even generations) will decide another brand like the Oreck is the best (it's lighter and easier to use more frequently which is an important factor with growing older).  Or as we age we just may stop using the Kirby or other family brands as often because of our age and physical ailments associated with getting older.   Hence no BEST and PERFECT vacuum even for the same person/household! My advice is don't get old. Carmine D.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/13/06 at 6:53am Getting back to bonelady and this thread, the HOOVER Z's filter is self cleaning and will last the life of the vacuum under normal household use.  This is a nice selling feature for vacuum users who are sick and tired of the time, effort, cost and mess with cleaning and replacing vacuum filters.  But they may still want the bagless vacuum feature. Ask any bagless vacuum owner/user what they dislike the most about their vacuum. The most received response will be the hassle with the filters (including the expense).  Just as our poster (and other Forum posters).  The HOOVER Z solves that problem for the life of the vacuum.   Dyson supporters on the Forum rave about the TWO FILTERS (pre-post motor) on their brand which only have to be cleaned/washed a few times a year.  And replaced less frequently over the life of the vacuum.  The HOOVER Z eliminates the filter problem of cleaning and replacing for its ONE HEPA filter altogether and does not even get a mention for it.   ??? Carmine D.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by Bruce on 04/13/06 at 1:03pm Carmine_Difazio wrote: Dyson supporters on the Forum rave about the TWO FILTERS (pre-post motor) on their brand which only have to be cleaned/washed a few times a year.  And replaced less frequently over the life of the vacuum.  The HOOVER Z eliminates the filter problem of cleaning and replacing for its ONE HEPA filter altogether and does not even get a mention for it.   ??? Carmine D. Sorry to pop your bubble Carmine. The Z's pleated filter is NOT going to last the life of the vacuum unless you consider "life" as being less than a few years at best. ALL pleated filters WILL clog with microscopic particulates regardless of how much reverse air is forced through them or how much additional mechanical agitation is applied to them in combination. Unlike the Dyson filter which is NOT the main filter for separation of debris, the Hoover Z's filter is not permanent. Hoover is deceiving its customers by making false claims of this nature.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/13/06 at 1:24pm Bruce wrote: The Z's pleated filter is NOT going to last the life of the vacuum unless you consider "life" as being less than a few years at best. ALL pleated filters WILL clog with microscopic particulates regardless of how much reverse air is forced through them or how much additional mechanical agitation is applied to them in combination. ....the Hoover Z's filter is not permanent. Hoover is deceiving its customers by making false claims of this nature. Likewise Bruce, I'm sorry to rebut your statements but .....   Based on our personal use of the HOOVER Z 400 in my home almost every day and night over the last several weeks, the HEPA filter and self-cleaning feature is working just as HOOVER claims. THe HOOVER Z is getting a double duty workout.  My dear Wife and I are selling this house and moving.  We are cleaning, painting, and doing patch up work on walls from the picture, painting and mirror holes and the like that were hanging.  I'm sanding, painting and refinishing the walls, woodwork, and floors.  We're picking up fine sanding from drywall filler. THe Z is performing marvelously. I am gifting this HOOVER Z to my married daughter who thinks it's way cool.  But not until the end of the month.  All the heavy duty cleaning should be done by then. Carmine D.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by HARDSELL on 04/13/06 at 6:59pm Carmine_Difazio wrote: Likewise Bruce, I'm sorry to rebut your statements but .....   Based on our personal use of the HOOVER Z 400 in my home almost every day and night over the last several weeks, the HEPA filter and self-cleaning feature is working just as HOOVER claims. THe HOOVER Z is getting a double duty workout.  My dear Wife and I are selling this house and moving.  We are cleaning, painting, and doing patch up work on walls from the picture, painting and mirror holes and the like that were hanging.  I'm sanding, painting and refinishing the walls, woodwork, and floors.  We're picking up fine sanding from drywall filler. THe Z is performing marvelously. I am gifting this HOOVER Z to my married daughter who thinks it's way cool.  But not until the end of the month.  All the heavy duty cleaning should be done by then. Carmine D. You are judging the filter life on a few weeks use and say it will last the life of the vacuum. Others have used Dysons for years with no filter replacements yet a few on the forum claim the Dyson filter is short lived. Are there any predjudices here?  Or is it just jabber by those who do not profit from Dyson?

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by VacOMatic on 04/13/06 at 9:01pm meanwhile, getting back to bonelady; One vac that is very lightweight, uses bags and is easy to manuever is the SEBO FELIX.  This is a german vac running $5-600 which uses a cogged belt for brushroll.  It can be used like a large handheld by detaching the powerbrush. As for the Bissell, yes, sounds like its brushchamber hose could be clogged.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/14/06 at 3:26am HARDSELL wrote: You are judging the filter life on a few weeks use and say it will last the life of the vacuum. Others have used Dysons for years with no filter replacements yet a few on the forum claim the Dyson filter is short lived. Are there any predjudices here?  Or is it just jabber by those who do not profit from Dyson? We (my Wife and I) have used the HOOVER Z for over 4 weeks.  We have given it a heavy duty household workout.  All other bagless vacuums if used like this, including a dyson, would require filter cleanings and/or washings several times during this time period.  Not the ZEE.  None. Why? Because of the fine powdery nature of the sanding dirt and debris.  ZEE filter cleans itself.  Dyson and other bagless vacuums with filters require user maintenance, either cleaning and/or replacing. Especially with the kind of usage the ZEE had over the last month. We also have a long haired English yellow lab.  When we used a dyson DC07 for a month in my home for just normal household cleaning, I had to cut off the dog hair wrap around the brushroll at least once a week and more depending on the usage and shedding.  Not with the HOOVER Z.  No hair wrap at all on the ZEE.  Why?  THe ZEE has a brush roll with a larger diameter than brush rolls used as the industry standard.  Dyson brush roll has a smaller diameter than the industry. Carmine D.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/14/06 at 3:36am VacOMatic wrote: meanwhile, getting back to bonelady; One vac that is very lightweight, uses bags and is easy to manuever is the SEBO FELIX.  This is a german vac running $5-600 which uses a cogged belt for brushroll.  It can be used like a large handheld by detaching the powerbrush. As for the Bissell, yes, sounds like its brushchamber hose could be clogged. A major drawback of the Felix for normal household use is the lack of attachments for suction cleaning.  In this regard its just like the Oreck and Simplicity Freedom Series.  If you have above the floor cleaning and carpets, you need a second vacuum to supplement the Felix. Trilobite opined that the lack of carpet suction is due to poor agitation and/or rug nozzle blockage.  Old-timer said the belt was stretched causing the brush roll to slip and lose effectiveness.  It's very difficult to diagnose by internet and long distance.  Seeing is believing. Carmine D.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by guess_who on 04/14/06 at 11:40am Hi Carmine, The Felix models do come with attachments -- a crevice tool plus a tool for upholstery. One model comes with a bare floor tool that is also an option for the others.   Also the Felix comes offering different cleaning swaths model to model.  There's a link below. http://www.allergybuyersclubshopping.com/sebo-felix-vacuum-cleaners.html#features Venson

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/14/06 at 12:02pm Venson: Excellent.  I think with advertising and the right promotions, the SEBO FELIX would be a hit. Carmine D.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by johncainltd on 04/20/06 at 3:15pm dualcyclone wrote: IF you had a Dyson, you would never be 'sick' of cleaning or replacing filters.  ONLY on vacuums that use INFERIOR technology (non-dyson machines) does this occur. Going back to the smelly old bag is an acceptable thing What can I do about the odor in the permanent filter on my DC-7?

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by old-timer on 04/20/06 at 9:19pm What type of odor, John. old-timer

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by Bruce on 04/20/06 at 10:16pm old-timer wrote: What type of odor, John. You beat me to the question old timer! In order for the prefilter to absorb a noticable odor [during operation], one would have to be either vacuuming up "stuff" that shouldn't be vacuumed or didn't allow sufficient drying time after washing/cleaning the filter. The later of course would cause mold, mildew and bactering to incubate within the filter, producing a foul odor. Like I've said so many times before, if the vacuum is operated and maintained in accordance with the owners manual there will be no odor emanating from the emissions of a Dyson. This would include emtying the dirt bin after each use if the debris is of an objectionable odor. Common sense dictates when to empty the bin.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by vacuuman on 04/20/06 at 10:49pm I have smelled Dysons that had a dog odor from picking up so much dog hair, and the same for carpet fresh, and other dirt smells.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by tiger21 on 04/20/06 at 11:39pm Vacuuman, Bruce has only one thing to say on the matter it seems. Operator doesn't follow instructions. Welcome to the real world Bruce. You can follow instructions and still get an odor.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filter Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/21/06 at 5:26am Carmine_Difazio wrote: Bruce: I believe you said that you use a dyson, Miele, and Rainbow for all your regular household cleaning?  You said you dump the dyson both inside and/or outside and it takes you only 2 seconds?  Are you sure? How can that be?  How often do you use the dyson and dump it?   And you use the rexair/rainbow also?  How long does it take to dump, clean and store after each use?  Do you use the rainbow daily, weekly, monthly?  Only special occasions? How often do you use the Miele? How often do you replace the bag?  How long does it take? What is the monthly and yearly cost of bags? Which vacuum (dyson, Miele, rainbow) is the best for you as a daily user? Based on your own experience would you recommend a bagged vacuum or bagless to our poster and which of the 3 would you recommend to her?  Why? Carmine D. Bruce: How's your memory on this?   Carmine D.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by johncainltd on 04/21/06 at 8:11am old-timer wrote: What type of odor, John. old-timer Old Timer, It smells like a full bag. It's that dust smell we all know. I pried off the cover to look at the famous lifetime filter. Not only was it was full of dust, but the gasket on the filter wasn't even properly aligned. I suppose this is how it came from the factory. And before anyone tells me that it's user error, let me just say YES,  I remove and wash  the foam prefilter every 6 months as directed . I already ordered a replacemeent filter.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/21/06 at 12:01pm johncainltd wrote: And before anyone tells me that it's user error, let me just say YES,  I remove and wash  the foam prefilter every 6 months as directed . I already ordered a replacemeent filter. Did you have the name "Bruce" in mind? :) Carmine D.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filter Post by Bruce on 04/21/06 at 1:16pm Carmine_Difazio wrote: Bruce: How's your memory on this?   Carmine D. Very Good!

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/21/06 at 2:12pm Then I presume you are uncomfortable and tentative with your own comparative knowledge and skills to rate these vacuums for the Forum?   ??? Carmine D.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by Bruce on 04/21/06 at 4:10pm Carmine_Difazio wrote: Then I presume you are uncomfortable and tentative with your own comparative knowledge and skills to rate these vacuums for the Forum?   ??? Carmine D. You should already remember and know the answer. I'm not going to waste my time explaining again to you because it would be redundant. Do the research if you're really that interested. Have you forgotten to take your Ginko Biloba today?

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/21/06 at 5:47pm Bruce wrote: You should already remember and know the answer. I'm not going to waste my time explaining again to you because it would be redundant. Do the research if you're really that interested. Have you forgotten to take your Ginko Biloba today? Bruce: Of course I know.  And you know I know.  I've known all along.   The answer is the rhetoric question in my post to you.  You can't: That's the answer.  I just wanted to give you the time and opportunity to confirm it on the Forum.  Thank you.     Carmine D.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filter Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/23/06 at 4:56am Carmine_Difazio wrote: Bruce: I believe you said that you use a dyson, Miele, and Rainbow for all your regular household cleaning?  You said you dump the dyson both inside and/or outside and it takes you only 2 seconds?  Are you sure? How can that be?  How often do you use the dyson and dump it?   And you use the rexair/rainbow also?  How long does it take to dump, clean and store after each use?  Do you use the rainbow daily, weekly, monthly?  Only special occasions? How often do you use the Miele? How often do you replace the bag?  How long does it take? What is the monthly and yearly cost of bags? Which vacuum (dyson, Miele, rainbow) is the best for you as a daily user? Based on your own experience would you recommend a bagged vacuum or bagless to our poster and which of the 3 would you recommend to her?  Why? Carmine D.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filter Post by justasking2 on 04/23/06 at 3:56pm Carmine_Difazio wrote: Interesting you are again repeating your own posts.  I believe if you go back through past posts Bruce has already answered most of these questions in one form or another in the past, however would it really matter how he answered these for you?  No matter what the answers you will continue to attack dyson he will disagree when you do.  Do you really wanthim to restate his opinions on these past comments or just looking for an argument?

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filter Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/23/06 at 8:04pm justasking2 wrote:  Do you really wanthim to restate his opinions on these past comments? Yes, I'm interested in hearing Bruce's answers to these straight forward questions in one post.  And his comparative analyses and ratings of these 3 vacuum cleaners from his personal use and perspective also in one post.  I think the Forum would benefit from his personal knowledge and the response would address the posters questions. Carmind D.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by bonelady on 04/26/06 at 12:02pm Looks like this is an interesting topic.  Well here is my update.  I bought a Hoover Empower (?).  Cleans wonderfully and I love the attachements.  After running itonce  on all 3 floors and emptying the dirt cup( Less than 1/2 full)  I took a look at the filter and took it outside to TAP it clean. I think more dust was created that there was dirt on my patio after all winter ! I am going to try to vacuum the filter with my Bissel that only has suction remaining when using the hose. It should not be this hard to clean your floors!

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by VacOMatic on 04/26/06 at 12:33pm The empower did pretty well in CU testing - what matters is if it does what you want and need it to.   Like all pleated filters, the Empowers will eventually loose suction as the fine pores get plugged up.  Using another vacuum to clean it will help retard the process.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/26/06 at 1:14pm The HOOVER EmPower has a teflon coated HEPA filter which is washable and lasts for 3 years under normal conditions.  The EmPower originally launched in June 2004 for $150 retail but are sold now for $100.  Decent performer for rugs and floors, nice features, hush mode, but still a bagless.  For the price, it's worth the money. Carmine D.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by RAT on 04/26/06 at 1:41pm bonelady wrote: Looks like this is an interesting topic.  Well here is my update.  I bought a Hoover Empower (?).  Cleans wonderfully and I love the attachements.  After running itonce  on all 3 floors and emptying the dirt cup( Less than 1/2 full)  I took a look at the filter and took it outside to TAP it clean. I think more dust was created that there was dirt on my patio after all winter ! I am going to try to vacuum the filter with my Bissel that only has suction remaining when using the hose. It should not be this hard to clean your floors! If you're really "sick of cleaning and replacing filters", I don't understand why you purchased another bagless vacuum that will require you to clean and at some point replace filters.   With any bagged vacuum, it isn't difficult to clean your floors.  If you insist on a bagless, you really should be buying either a Rainbow (possibly used) or a Dyson.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filter Post by HARDSELL on 04/26/06 at 6:52pm Carmine_Difazio wrote: Yes, I'm interested in hearing Bruce's answers to these straight forward questions in one post.  And his comparative analyses and ratings of these 3 vacuum cleaners from his personal use and perspective also in one post.  I think the Forum would benefit from his personal knowledge and the response would address the posters questions. Carmind D. We would benefit more if you got off the forum.  Maybe that is too harsh.  You can not help if you forget and ask the same question repeatedly.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by Bruce on 04/27/06 at 3:25am bonelady wrote: Looks like this is an interesting topic.  Well here is my update.  I bought a Hoover Empower (?).  Cleans wonderfully and I love the attachements.  After running itonce  on all 3 floors and emptying the dirt cup( Less than 1/2 full)  I took a look at the filter and took it outside to TAP it clean. I think more dust was created that there was dirt on my patio after all winter ! I am going to try to vacuum the filter with my Bissel that only has suction remaining when using the hose. It should not be this hard to clean your floors! I'm hoping you didn't purchase this POS hoover on Carmines account because he doesn't know what he's talking about. The fact remains that "ANY" vacuum cleaner that utilizes a pleated filter as its "main" filtering media [including the hoover z's] are going to be a mess to empty and maintain... AND more important are going to restrict and clog in a short period of time. Doesn't matter if the filter is coated with teflon, shmeshlon or any other substance known to mankind. Pleated filters are unhealthy to deal with and will require frequent replacements over their dismal and short life expectancy. There appears to be only a few bagless vacuums on todays market that do not require these costly and messy filter replacements >AND< maintain consistent suction. As RAT previously stated, the Rainbow and Dyson fall into this catagory. The Dyson in particular is the most user friendly of all bagless vacuums on the market today. It only requires "TWO SECONDS" to press the release button on the top of the dirt receptacle which in turn releases the trap door and its contents. There is NO pleated filter to maintain. By design, the Dyson is capable of removing the majority of its inhaled debris "before" it can ever reach the prefilter. The result and benefit of this technology is that the prefilter [under normal household useage] only requires an occassional rinsing every six months AND the vacuum maintains consistent air flow and suction between cleanings. Try going that long with your new hoover?? You quickly learned the mess involved in cleaning/emptying your new hoover on the very first day you used it. Now that you know what's involved, you'll eventually dread using it and postpone cleaning the pleated filter. The end result is performance goes down the toilet.   Money spent on the Dyson will be well worth the investment if you're seeking a truly easy to use and maintain bagless upright.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/28/06 at 10:33am Dyson is the highest priced bagless on the USA market.  THere are several posters who have informed the Forum of dyson issues/problems experienced during and after warranty.  You may want to read these posts to see if you have similar circumstances that may lead to the same problems. Dyson has not been reviewed yet in the USA for its repairs and maintenance.  It's due having been on the USA market for 4 years now and coming out of normal and extended warranties. Several vacuum industry pros on the Forum have also posted about their personal and professional experiences with dysons.  You should read for background and information. In the UK and Europe where dysons have been around longer than the USA, the dyson has repeatedly been rated and reviewed as requiring more frequent and costly repairs and maintenance than the average vacuums, most especially vacuums comparable in price range. Carmine D.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by HARDSELL on 04/28/06 at 7:49pm Carmine_Difazio wrote: Dyson is the highest priced bagless on the USA market.  THere are several posters who have informed the Forum of dyson issues/problems experienced during and after warranty.  You may want to read these posts to see if you have similar circumstances that may lead to the same problems. Dyson has not been reviewed yet in the USA for its repairs and maintenance.  It's due having been on the USA market for 4 years now and coming out of normal and extended warranties. Several vacuum industry pros on the Forum have also posted about their personal and professional experiences with dysons.  You should read for background and information. In the UK and Europe where dysons have been around longer than the USA, the dyson has repeatedly been rated and reviewed as requiring more frequent and costly repairs and maintenance than the average vacuums, most especially vacuums comparable in price range. Carmine D. You might possibly find a half dozen individuals who have complained on this forum about Dyson.  You will find at least as many who prefer Dyson.  Complaints are nothing compared to units sold.  Remember,  those with problems (even if not the vacuums fault) scream loudest. Do others find it odd that a few on this forum made their fortunes repairing vacuums yet they never worked on Dysons.  I have not heard of any making money on Dyson repairs.  What brands could possibly need so many repairs to keep independents in business?  Certainly not Dyson.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by vacuuman on 04/28/06 at 10:49pm We certainly have made quite a bit on Dyson repairs.  Interestingly they have all been warranty repairs too, since Dyson pays us for the labor.  One month we did just under $1,000 on Dyson warranty repairs.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by JimB on 04/28/06 at 11:16pm I to do dyson warranty's.  They sure do take care of thier customer and they have made a conscious effort to steer business to hometown shops.  I find most of the dyson business that ends up here revolves around filters not being cleaned and or brushbars not being cleaned.  Was the customer is educated we don't see them for repair again.  Although we have had our share of those who traded in for an upgraded dyson.  Now if only they come out with another new model to bring more repeat dyson fans in.   Vacuuman,   The fact that your store would sign a contract to be an authorized dyson dealer and then take shots at it as an "insider" speaks to an ugly side of this business that I can not respect.  If you do not believe it is good for your customers be honest and agree not to represent them anymore if you are the decision maker if not at least try to me a loyal employee and respect your owners decision.  I will not pretend to represent a product I don't beleive in.  It is not honest

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by ArtieV on 04/29/06 at 10:29am Carmine_Difazio wrote: Dyson is the highest priced bagless on the USA market.  THere are several posters who have informed the Forum of dyson issues/problems experienced during and after warranty.  You may want to read these posts to see if you have similar circumstances that may lead to the same problems. HARDSELL wrote: You might possibly find a half dozen individuals who have complained on this forum about Dyson.  You will find at least as many who prefer Dyson.  Complaints are nothing compared to units sold.  Remember,  those with problems (even if not the vacuums fault) scream loudest. Apparently, I fit into both categories! I described a dyson problem which was resolved to my satisfaction by a suggestion from dyson which would not be appropriate for everyone (cf. the "dyson dysfunction" thread several months ago.) But I feel that Dyson was responsive, and I like the dyson and use it regularly. "Complaints are nothing compared to the number of units sold." Agreed! On this forum I don't think we hear form a representative sample of everyday users of other vacs who have major problems requiring repair or disposal. For example, shortly after I bought my Hoover "Commercial" canister, (many years ago, which I still have and use occasionally) the foot-switch housing screw tab broke, causing the switch to disappear under the cover. That should not have happened to a switch designed to be operated by stepping on it. I repaired it myself with some epoxy, which for me was easier than lugging it to a repair shop. The plastic (or nylon or whatever) latching tabs on the attachment tubes have failed both on this machne and on my Dial, another problem not due to operator error, and which should not have happened considering the price of the machines. So the list goes on with all vacs. CR has recently issued their on-line survey which includes vacuum cleaners, which should be out in the Fall sometime. I'll be interested to see where dyson falls in the reliability ratings. It may not be as idiot-proof as some machines, but the basic care is generally so simple that I'm not concerned about the careless users.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by justasking2 on 04/29/06 at 11:22am JimB wrote: Vacuuman,   The fact that your store would sign a contract to be an authorized dyson dealer and then take shots at it as an "insider" speaks to an ugly side of this business that I can not respect.  If you do not believe it is good for your customers be honest and agree not to represent them anymore if you are the decision maker if not at least try to me a loyal employee and respect your owners decision.  I will not pretend to represent a product I don't beleive in.  It is not honest As a consumer I could not agree more.  If I were to walk into a shop that was signed on as an official representative of any company and they proceeded to talk negatively about that company, I would never be found patronizing that store again.  If they would lie to the company or enter a contract dishonestly why would I believe anything they tell me as a consumer.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by old-timer on 04/29/06 at 2:17pm How about the service centers that have customers beg them to repair their vacuums, only to tell the customer that if they supply us the parts we will repair them, Dyson is one of the few that lock out parts wholesalers from buying and distributing to the vac shops.More parts are available for euro pro than dyson right now.Mr D better get his act together and very soon. AFTER THE SALE ITS THE SERVICE THAT COUNTS. old-timer

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/29/06 at 5:50pm Artie: I was speaking more to consumers with high pile carpets and thick nap that are troubling for the dyson clutch and brush bar.  And the DC07 dirt bins that leak dust due to the poor hinge and closing gasket.   Add to these issues the regular need to cut off the hair wrap and pet hair from the DC07 and DC14 brush rolls, if applicable, and the dyson users will have their maintenance work cut out for them.  For the high prices, should dyson users really have these problems to deal with?  If you need a belt changed on the dyson, what does that cost?  $90?  And the users can't do it. Several current Forum vacuum professionals like vacuuman, Tiger21, Old-timer and Dual have consistently posted about their preoccupation to repair and/or trade dysons regularly as part of their core vacuum repair business and income, including warranty work.  The dysons are only 4 years into their tenure in the USA.   As time goes by and Consumer Reports researches  dyson vacuum maintenace costs further, more will be learned about the reliability and cost to run and maintain dysons over time.  This repair information which is currently primarily among the vacuum industry insider pros will become common knowledge for the consumers. Carmine D.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by justasking2 on 04/29/06 at 6:14pm old-timer wrote: How about the service centers that have customers beg them to repair their vacuums, only to tell the customer that if they supply us the parts we will repair them, Dyson is one of the few that lock out parts wholesalers from buying and distributing to the vac shops.More parts are available for euro pro than dyson right now.Mr D better get his act together and very soon. AFTER THE SALE ITS THE SERVICE THAT COUNTS. old-timer I agree with you that after the sale its the service that counts.  However, in reading comments by some I agree with the dyson model of only having those willing to support thier brand doing service on them.  For those "pretending" to support the brand while bragging about warrantly income I say take a good look at the type of person you want to be.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by JimB on 04/29/06 at 6:24pm Carmine_Difazio wrote: As time goes by and Consumer Reports researches  dyson vacuum maintenace costs further, more will be learned about the reliability and cost to run and maintain dysons over time.  This repair information which is currently primarily among the vacuum industry insider pros will become common knowledge for the consumers. Carmine D. Do you just make this stuff up.  I do dyson warranty service.  For the number sold there are and amazingly low number that have found themselves back for service.   Many of those who i have read at vacdealersforum.com who are industry profesionals talking in a setting where they don't have to try to spin for the marketplace are quietly surprised how few come back.  As Dyson warranty's the clutch some do come back, but usually this turns into an education on the customer on keeping the brush clear and not ignoring the dyson clutch warning sound.  As I responsibly educate on this different technology none of these come back a 2nd time and in the meantime the warranty has paid for both a customer belt change and me earning the trust of a consumer very few manufacturers can offer me that public goodwill.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/29/06 at 7:39pm I think you as a warranty dyson service guy are outnumbered 4 to 1 on the Forum.  Tiger21, vacuuman, Old-timer, and Dual are getting rich on the dyson warranty and repairs.  Dual doesn't even sell new dysons anymore, just repairs.  He said so on the Forum.  Is he making it up? I'm advocated for the majority not you.   Carmine D.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by old-timer on 04/29/06 at 7:40pm Hi JimB, as we have a mutual respect for each other as service people, how would dyson react to a customer that purchased a dc07/ dc14 that has clutch/ belt problems due to very thick or high pile carpets ,where as the problem will crop up again. would dyson refund their money? offer a full refund toward a dc15? or just tell the warranty station to handle it, and do what they see fit. or nothing? Looking forward to your reply. B.T.W this can really open up a can of worms. old-timer

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by JimB on 04/29/06 at 9:50pm Carmine_Difazio wrote: I think you as a warranty dyson service guy are outnumbered 4 to 1 on the Forum.  Tiger21, vacuuman, Old-timer, and Dual are getting rich on the dyson warranty and repairs.  Dual doesn't even sell new dysons anymore, just repairs.  He said so on the Forum.  Is he making it up? I'm advocated for the majority not you.   Carmine D. I would bet Tiger21, vacuuman, Old-timer, and Dual would like to speak for themselves if they are getting rich on warranty repairs for Dyson.  I am not sure all those you quoted run dyson warranty centers.  If they are honest with there customers and Dyson and are Dyson warranty centers I am quite confident they are not getting rich by repairing dysons.  I have read Dual's explanation of not selling dysons and as a business owner I can respect his adapting to what sounds like a very tough local economy by refurbishing trade ins to offer a quality product and a affordable price.  He has made a business decision to pay the bills but seems to refuse to throw what he considers a quality product to the wolves.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by JimB on 04/29/06 at 10:08pm old-timer wrote: Hi JimB, as we have a mutual respect for each other as service people, how would dyson react to a customer that purchased a dc07/ dc14 that has clutch/ belt problems due to very thick or high pile carpets ,where as the problem will crop up again. would dyson refund their money? offer a full refund toward a dc15? or just tell the warranty station to handle it, and do what they see fit. or nothing? Looking forward to your reply. B.T.W this can really open up a can of worms. old-timer First if it is a thick loop pile like a berber I would recomend as the carpet manufacturer using suction only and yes in this case the dyson imho would be a great fit.  If it is a high pile they would not have bought it from me as I would have said the only dyson for that would be the dc 15.  If the pile is so high it is constantly engaging the clutch then 1) the customer should have found out very quickly 2)  the original salesperson did not properly qualify the customer 3) As it should be a very new machine I would advocate a trade in at the original location and recomend the dc 15 as a much better fit for thier needs if they want to try the dyson line.  I don't see it as a repair issue as it is a machine working exactly as designed.  As for how dyson would handle it I would think they would have the same view.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by old-timer on 04/29/06 at 10:22pm Thanks JimB, great reply, isn't it always the way that your headaches are always caused by someone else, and us the service people have to always put out the fires. old-timer

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by vacuuman on 04/30/06 at 7:17pm I did speak for myself on the subject of Dyson warranty repairs.  If anyone would like to read what I had to say, my post is on the last page.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/30/06 at 8:14pm JimB wrote: I would bet Tiger21, vacuuman, Old-timer, and Dual would like to speak for themselves if they are getting rich on warranty repairs for Dyson.  I am not sure all those you quoted run dyson warranty centers.  If they are honest with there customers and Dyson and are Dyson warranty centers I am quite confident they are not getting rich by repairing dysons.  I have read Dual's explanation of not selling dysons and as a business owner I can respect his adapting to what sounds like a very tough local economy by refurbishing trade ins to offer a quality product and a affordable price.  He has made a business decision to pay the bills but seems to refuse to throw what he considers a quality product to the wolves. Having been in the vacuum sales and service business for over 40 years myself, you and others wouldn't be doing dyson warranty AND REPAIRS (not necessarily a dyson warranty center) if you were not making money.  You don't stay in the vacuum business for long that way. Vacuuman I and others who respect the truth, admire your Forum honesty concerning dyson repairs in and out of warranty.  Honesty is an excellent attribute (VIRTUE) for a business man looking to stay the course and have a long term business relationship with their customers.   Carmine D.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/30/06 at 8:29pm JimB wrote: First if it is a thick loop pile like a berber I would recomend as the carpet manufacturer using suction only and yes in this case the dyson imho would be a great fit.   Oreck is and ideal upright for berber. Carmine D.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by JimB on 04/30/06 at 9:05pm vacuuman wrote: I did speak for myself on the subject of Dyson warranty repairs.  If anyone would like to read what I had to say, my post is on the last page. I read what you said and I read how Carmine spun it (getting rich on dyson warranty repairs).  My guess IMHO is you must not be a shop owner but perhaps a hourly worker.  The reality of your $1000 in a month number is that of that about $600 to $650 of that is reimbursement for parts and shipping you paid in the front end.  That leaves $350 to $400 for a shop owner and you sound like a larger city location (Denver?).  Remember also if you are an employee your owner is paying your salary and other shop expenses for the period you are working on those machines out of that also.  Even at $400 a month which my experience would say is extremely high that would not be what most would consider "getting rich".  You can make a profit from doing warranty repairs but quite frankly the real money in warranty repairs is the consumer walking in your door that may have not otherwise.  Respect their product and treat them honestly and you could earn repeat business and referrals the real profit in warranty repairs.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by Carmine_Difazio on 05/01/06 at 6:40am JimB wrote: I read what you said and I read how Carmine spun it (getting rich on dyson warranty repairs).  My guess IMHO is you must not be a shop owner but perhaps a hourly worker.  The reality of your $1000 in a month number is that of that about $600 to $650 of that is reimbursement for parts and shipping you paid in the front end.  That leaves $350 to $400 for a shop owner and you sound like a larger city location (Denver?).  Remember also if you are an employee your owner is paying your salary and other shop expenses for the period you are working on those machines out of that also.  Even at $400 a month which my experience would say is extremely high that would not be what most would consider "getting rich".  You can make a profit from doing warranty repairs but quite frankly the real money in warranty repairs is the consumer walking in your door that may have not otherwise.  Respect their product and treat them honestly and you could earn repeat business and referrals the real profit in warranty repairs. You misquoted.  To be accurate you should say ..."getting rich on dyson warranty work AND REPAIRS"....... BTW for a professional who is reticent on your own dyson background (for fear of personal and family reprisal on the Forum) your questions and assessments are very pushy (and tacky).  (IMHO) Why are you privileged to ask and know these details about someone else's dyson business if you are not first equally willing to say what they are for you?   In my old fashioned vacuum days, protocal among industry professionals was reciprocal?  You tell me, and I'll tell you was the standard of information exchange.   Carmine D.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by JimB on 05/01/06 at 9:58am Nice try Carmine I asked no hard pushy questions just used information that was happily already given.  As for the amount of Dyson work out of warranty right now it is miniscule and no honest shop is getting rich on those either.  You are the one in the habit of asking questions that must be answered for other to prove credibility,  was that 17 questions in one post you demanded of Bruce?  Lets go back to the fact though I did not push on questions they were statements made on themselves.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by RAT on 05/01/06 at 11:12am JimB wrote: N...  As for the amount of Dyson work out of warranty right now it is miniscule and no honest shop is getting rich on those either.  ... Are we to assume that you have access to data from all Dyson authorized repair facilities on revenues from Dyson repairs, and you have data and some innate ability to categorize them as to their honesty?   I believe it was Dual who made the comment that he had purchased large quantities of Dyson replacement parts in order to make a fortune for retirement.  I believe most people recognize Dual as the Dyson expert on this forum.   So if Dual says that he expects to make his fortune doing Dyson repairs, people take him seriously.   dualcyclone wrote: Most bagless vacuums are not 'healthy' to empty.  Let's face it, even the Dyson isn't perfect.  The Air-Way is about the best (with the Air-Way allergy seals and allergy bags) there is as far as clean emptying and no dust after the bag.  ... Regarding Carmine's post, foresight has proven for me, once again, to be a great thing.  I stocked up on Dyson repair parts - over $3000 in Dyson parts are sitting in my service room - waiting.  I have tons of brush rollers, hoses, soleplates, etc.  Many people refer to Dysons as 'robot' vacuums (due to their unique look).  I figure, I'm probably the only person in the entire city with repair parts and technical know-how to fix the 'robots' and I can make a small fortune doing so.  I plan on retiring on from the profit just on brush rollers.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by JimB on 05/01/06 at 3:30pm Rat,  It does not take inside info to no that a very small portion of dyson's are out of there two year warranty it is a fact.  And yes I would stand by strongly that if you are being honest in handling dyson warranty work you simply are not getting rich.  I think only those not doing dyson warranty and trying to push another product by denigrating dyson are claiming that you can get rich from dyson warranty's.  As far as Dual he seems to feel he has the market cornered in his area I too feel my competitors closed mindeness on this new product line has allowed me a greater share of the business profit than I probably should have.  I am happy everyday that dyson has decided to strategically partner with hometown shops for service and offer margins although not great at least good enough to take some big box sales away however much of my competition are old dogs not willing to learn a new trick allowing me a bigger piece of the pie.  Everyone has different business models but I tend to think dual was speaking rhetorically when he said he was going to retire on $3000 worth of parts.  Take that literally if you choose, but my experience tells me that you and I both know those $3000 dollars of parts are not a guarantee of great wealth or a literal retirment plan.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by Carmine_Difazio on 05/01/06 at 5:55pm JimB wrote: Rat,  .... I too feel my competitors closed mindeness on this new product line has allowed me a greater share of the business profit than I probably should have...however much of my competition are old dogs not willing to learn a new trick allowing me a bigger piece of the pie... I tend to think dual was speaking rhetorically... . From Webster's College Edition Dictionary: Rich is the general word for one who has more money or income-producing property than is necessary to satisfy his personal needs. Rhetorically: Having the nature of rhetoric or artificial eloquence; showy and elaborate in style. Any more you want to add to clarify the posts on your and Dual's dyson repairs? Carmine D.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by JimB on 05/01/06 at 7:04pm No need to clarify.  I think all here were comfortable with defining "rich" and "rhetorically" on our own.  You don't need an Ivy league degree even us repair guys can figure that out on our own.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by Carmine_Difazio on 05/02/06 at 3:05am JimB wrote: No need to clarify.  I think all here were comfortable with defining "rich" and "rhetorically" on our own.  You don't need an Ivy league degree even us repair guys can figure that out on our own.   I believe the not so fragrant odor of your posts on the subject helps define the words very well for the Forum. Webster's dictionary is a wonderful tool to reduce rhetoric (with/without and Ivy league degree) into plain English.  A good sense of smell like I said helps too.     Carmine D.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by JimB on 05/02/06 at 11:28am Carmine_Difazio wrote: I believe the not so fragrant odor of your posts on the subject helps define the words very well for the Forum. Webster's dictionary is a wonderful tool to reduce rhetoric (with/without and Ivy league degree) into plain English.  A good sense of smell like I said helps too.     Carmine D. It is a shame as opposed to having a discussion or debate about the statements in my post that are specific to the machines and repairs you need constantly divert to rhetoric and insults.  I can take the insults as I am aware I am interupting your personal crusade but at least include some facts in the post as well.  I get you don't like the opinions I have or the facts I offer but which parts of my posts on dyson repairs and warranty to you disagree with?

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by Carmine_Difazio on 05/02/06 at 1:40pm I don't know where to start.  You can't agree on Webster's definitions of "rich" and "rhetoric" as they apply to your posts and Dual's posts.  It's an exercise in futility to respond to you on this subject and expect to reach a mutually agreeable understanding.   The consensus on the matter expressed by Dual, Old-timer, Vacuuman and Tiger is correct.  You are not and it is evident you are not based on your own words.  RAT presented the facts to you in the most diplomatic way he could using Dual's own words to rebut you.  You called it "rhetoric" (meaningless showy artificial words)not Dual.     Let me summarize the exchanges on the dyson repairs as simply as possible: Jim, you and all the dyson experts you can summon to support your nonsensical illogical posts can no more claim righteous authority to speak on this subject than you can claim that Dual, Old-timer, Tiger, Vacuuman, RAT, and I are all wrong and we can't.  I'll go unequivocally with the majority opinion and consensus on this one.   Carmine D.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by JimB on 05/02/06 at 2:35pm Carmine_Difazio wrote:  You can't agree on Webster's definitions of "rich" and "rhetoric" as they apply to your posts and Dual's posts.  It's an exercise in futility to respond to you on this subject and expect to reach a mutually agreeable understanding.   Carmine D. I agree with the Webster definitions, nice try at spin.  I simply stated that he was being rhetorical in his stating that his $3,000 worth of parts were going to make him rich and be his retirement plan.  In other words yes I think he was being showy in making his point.  Are you actually making the point that he is being literal and then taking it another step an claiming indeed that he is currently becoming rich out of his foresight?  Don't get me wrong I think he is making a wise move in cornereing a market in his area but currently getting rich you are kidding me.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by JimB on 05/02/06 at 2:50pm Carmine_Difazio wrote: The consensus on the matter expressed by Dual, Old-timer, Vacuuman and Tiger is correct.   Carmine D. Ok guys, Carmine apparentely feels your are all stating you are all getting rich on Dyson warranty and repairs I call it bunk as I know for a fact my sales and repair numbers for dyson and where I rank with them nationally, even though it remains a relativelly small portion of my business, who wants to debate facts? If you don't want to state numbers publicly PM me.  We probably have the same service contact at dyson and it should be simple to authenticate each others claims if we both tell him its ok. Lets here a claim from one shop getting rich on dyson repairs.  Being called out by some guy pushing Hoover fusions at Walmart while telling me he knows what is best and true for the current vacuum shop business is getting old so lets hear it.  How about you Old-timer is Carmine speaking for you.  Are you getting rich on Dyson warranty work.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by RAT on 05/02/06 at 5:49pm There's no need to nitpick nuances and word definitions.   I believe its clear that there are long term costs to owning Dysons just like any other vacuum.   Furthermore, owners should expect to do basic maintenace like cleaning the dirt cup, removing hair from the brush roll, and occasionally cleaning filters to maintain suction. If my sole criteria was to purchase a bagless vacuum that required minimal cleaning and replacement of filters, I would likely purchase either a Rainbow or a Dyson.  If you tend to accumulate hair on the brush roll, the Dyson still may require frequent hair removal.   My preference would be to just buy a decent vacuum that uses bags for dirt disposal.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by old-timer on 05/03/06 at 10:26am HI JimB, no carmine does not speak for me, I can answer for myself. I AM NOT a dyson sales or service center, are we making money on dyson for the moment,the  answer is no, because most of the machines out there are still under warranty, and should be fixed free of charge to the customer, as you well know, can i repair the machines, the answer is YES, just waiting for the major parts distribution companies to stock parts for them, I understand also a replacement non[oem] clutch and belt system is about to be released soon.I t was at the v.d.t.a. show this year. regards, old-timer

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by Carmine_Difazio on 05/03/06 at 12:55pm JimB wrote: I read what you said and I read how Carmine spun it (getting rich on dyson warranty repairs).  My guess IMHO is you must not be a shop owner but perhaps a hourly worker.  The reality of your $1000 in a month number is that of that about $600 to $650 of that is reimbursement for parts and shipping you paid in the front end.  That leaves $350 to $400 for a shop owner and you sound like a larger city location (Denver?).  Remember also if you are an employee your owner is paying your salary and other shop expenses for the period you are working on those machines out of that also.  Even at $400 a month which my experience would say is extremely high that would not be what most would consider "getting rich".  You can make a profit from doing warranty repairs but quite frankly the real money in warranty repairs is the consumer walking in your door that may have not otherwise.  Respect their product and treat them honestly and you could earn repeat business and referrals the real profit in warranty repairs. You misquoted.  To be accurate you should say ..."getting rich on dyson warranty work AND REPAIRS"....... Jim:   Looks like you are still having problems with reading and comprehension.  I told you once already and this makes it redundant. Carmine D.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by JimB on 05/03/06 at 1:53pm Carmine_Difazio wrote: You misquoted.  To be accurate you should say ..."getting rich on dyson warranty work AND REPAIRS"....... Jim:   Looks like you are still having problems with reading and comprehension.  I told you once already and this makes it redundant. Carmine D. OK Carmine, I added the "and" per your request to my posting.  It will not change the facts of the responses.  Any dyson warrant OR repair facts to share or are you still just running grammar checks?

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by Carmine_Difazio on 05/03/06 at 3:15pm I think RAT's posts to you say it all.  And the posts and reposts by the experts like Dual, Old-Timer, Vacuuman, and Tiger21 are all confirmations on the theme. I suggest time and Consumer Reports do the rest. Carmine D.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by JimB on 05/03/06 at 4:19pm Carmine_Difazio wrote: I think RAT's posts to you say it all.  And the posts and reposts by the experts like Dual, Old-Timer, Vacuuman, and Tiger21 are all confirmations on the theme. I suggest time and Consumer Reports do the rest. Carmine D. RAT wrote: There's no need to nitpick nuances and word definitions.   I believe its clear that there are long term costs to owning Dysons just like any other vacuum.   Furthermore, owners should expect to do basic maintenace like cleaning the dirt cup, removing hair from the brush roll, and occasionally cleaning filters to maintain suction. If my sole criteria was to purchase a bagless vacuum that required minimal cleaning and replacement of filters, I would likely purchase either a Rainbow or a Dyson.  If you tend to accumulate hair on the brush roll, the Dyson still may require frequent hair removal.   My preference would be to just buy a decent vacuum that uses bags for dirt disposal.   Carmine,  I know it tears you up that dyson's are not having product failures repaired at the higher than normal rate you claim, however to imply Rat's post is proof that Dyson have higher than normal failure and repair rates could be considered delesusional.  Other than the fact that Rat and I would may have slightly different opinions on his last sentence, I would agree with all he said.  Take a step back look at the facts and then make your conclusion as opposed to trying to pick a desired conclusion and see how you can bend the facts to it.  Don't be in such a rush though and give others some time to respond to my post about claiming to be getting rich on dyson warranty and repairs.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by Carmine_Difazio on 05/03/06 at 5:25pm JimB wrote: Carmine,  I know it tears you up that dyson's are not having product failures repaired at the higher than normal rate you claim.... Again you are having reading and comprehension problems.  Vacuuman made the claim, not me.  In fact he made it twice and pedicted that if the rate of repairs and failures persisted as they were, he has serious doubts about the product and its longevity.  Did you forget?   In fact Dual had no foresight at all in stockpiling dyson parts for future repairs.  Tiger21 did it and said it first on the Forum trading over 70 dyson models and parting them out for future dyson repairs.  Old-Timer is gearing up to do the same by waiting for parts suppliers to wholesale dyson replacement parts.  Did I forget anyone? Carmine D.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by JimB on 05/03/06 at 5:48pm JimB wrote: Ok guys, Carmine apparentely feels your are all stating you are all getting rich on Dyson warranty and repairs I call it bunk as I know for a fact my sales and repair numbers for dyson and where I rank with them nationally, even though it remains a relativelly small portion of my business, who wants to debate facts? If you don't want to state numbers publicly PM me.  We probably have the same service contact at dyson and it should be simple to authenticate each others claims if we both tell him its ok. Lets here a claim from one shop getting rich on dyson repairs.  Being called out by some guy pushing Hoover fusions at Walmart while telling me he knows what is best and true for the current vacuum shop business is getting old so lets hear it.  How about you Old-timer is Carmine speaking for you.  Are you getting rich on Dyson warranty work. Carmine you keep answering for other people trying divine meaning and intention from old posts.  My post sounds quite clear and I am still waiting for someome to back your claim of getting rich on Dyson warranty's and repairs.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by Carmine_Difazio on 05/03/06 at 5:55pm Didn't you speak for Dual?  Remember you said he was speaking "rhetorically?"  Are you the only one subject to divine intervention for someone else's meaning?  It's ok for you to interpret another's posts to your way of thinking?  But you rebuke me for doing it?  And I'm using the literal interpretation of their posts not the "rhetorical."   I'm still waiting for others to back your claim.   Carmine D.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by JimB on 05/03/06 at 10:45pm Anyone getting rich on Dyson warranty and repairs?  Bueller? Carmine if you want to talk dyson repair facilities or warranty facts or specific dyson repairs I would be happy to, if you merely intend to have a grammar debate go ahead and have the last word. If any of the names you are tossing around want to have a discussion on dyson repairs I would be happy to have it with them.  I would be willing to bet we would agree on more than we would disagree.  I understand I am in the minority of shop owners partnering with dyson at this point and I hope that lasts as long as possible.  Lets see a shop touting the fusion and z post that.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by Carmine_Difazio on 05/04/06 at 6:47am JimB wrote: I am in the minority of shop owners partnering with dyson at this point and I hope that lasts as long as possible.  Lets see a shop touting the fusion and z post that. Sounds like you and Dual are cornering the market in dyson warranty and repairs.  Smart move.  I would probably repair dysons too and sell only as an accomodation for people who insisted on a bagless upright vacuum. Dual is in rural Missourri outside St. Louis.  Where is your vacuum cleaner store located? PS: I'll make believe you didn't drag HOOVER into this "debate."  But if you did, don't forget the new Elite. Carmine D.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by bonelady on 05/15/06 at 3:15pm Well, I still like my Hoover Empower, but can see that I will get pretty sick of cleaning that pleated filer! Tell me about uprights with a bag, so I can just change the bag when it is full and forget about cleaning filters altogether!

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by vacuuman on 05/15/06 at 8:11pm I would love to tell you about a few bagged uprights.  I would recommend looking at the Riccar/Simplicity lines of vacuums, mainly because they have a good variety of good vacuums in most price ranges.  They also have the option of using Filtrete bags, wich filter better annd last longer than other bags.  My personal recommendation would be to not go with any of the models that don't have a metal bottom plate and brushroll.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by VacOMatic on 05/16/06 at 2:47am Welcome back, bonelady!  Wrt bagged uprights vacs using filtrettes: If the Sebo Felix we mentioned earlier is too expensive  (SEBO's are costly and will soon be more so thanks to falling US dollar): The Simplicity Freedom, while one of the loudest vacs around, cleans well and is very lightweight.  But it does not use attachments. Several of the Kenmore uprights use filtrette bags and were well rated by Consumers Union. The Eureka Boss SmartVac is a good all round workhorse, under $200.  It does not use filtrettes, though.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by Carmine_Difazio on 05/16/06 at 6:49am VacOMatic wrote: The Eureka Boss SmartVac is a good all round workhorse, under $200.  It does not use filtrettes, though. About $140 retail at all the big box retailers.  A little on the heavy side.  I believe 20 pounds.  But a warrior.  And a nice size paper bag that can fill to the brim and keep on sucking. Carmine D.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by bonelady on 05/24/06 at 2:40pm Thanks.  I'll take a look at the Eureka.  Vacuums should not be this hard !

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/10/07 at 4:30pm The May 2007 Consumer Reports features most (& least) reliable brands revealed by 950,000 readers of the products they buy and use.  The years evaluated are 2004-2006. The big vacuum winner is the EUREKA Boss Smart Vac Ultra(bagged) upright consistently selected year after year by CR as a Best Buy.  And a best seller for all the big box retailers.  At $149 before discounts it's the CR winner for price, performance, and reliability. Carmine D.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by JimB on 04/10/07 at 5:01pm CR reports reliablility rates by number of contacts with a service facility.  Thus why they rate Dirt Devil and Bissell as more reliable than Riccar and Simplicity.  Many Riccar's for example go in for a free yearly tuneup and this counts as a service visit.  Many Riccar dealers simply remind customers that Riccar owners love thier Riccar's so much they bring them in for yearly check ups.  A good analogy I read from another Tacony dealer went something like:  Which pet is more loved the one brought to the Vet for a yearly checkup or the one driven to the country and abandoned at a farm after a year.  CR's "reliability" rating would say the the abandoned after a year pet is more reliable than the one kept for years as it was never taken to the Vet.

Title: Re: I am sick of cleaning and replacing filters Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/10/07 at 7:38pm Hello JimB: I agree.  The CR survey counts a vacuum service check (other than a belt replacement) as a repair and "dings" reliability.  This is the subject (vacuum service and maintenance) of a thread on the Forum.  I responded to Mark with some very similar comments as yours.  A fine example is Oreck which provides free annual tune ups with the purchase of selected models.  CR counts these visits as repairs and "dings" Oreck's reliability.  And consumers are more likely to take an Oreck in for free annual service than a RICCAR/Simplicity for annual/biannual service with a fee.  ;) AND.....the reason I add this caveat to MY comments about CR ratings, rankings and recommendations: CR is a guide not the gospel.  It's a starting place for vacuum shoppers not the final destination.  Like air watts and constant suction for vacuum performance.  "It's just one piece of the puzzle" as you like to say.  And one element of vacuum performance as I've said for the last 5 years on the Forum. I prefer Which? reliabilty data over CR for vacuums (I posted the Web site for the Which? data on the Forum on several occasions).  Why do I prefer Which? over CR? Which? categorizes and counts the number of vacuum repairs needed (not service check ups).  This method of reporting reliability data makes a distinction between a routine vacuum service and a needed repair to correct the vacuum's operation and/or performance. Having said all this, my point in the post is to reiterate that the EUREKA Boss Smart Vac BAGGED upright is worth a serious look by vacuum buyers who shop at the big box retailers.  To CR's credit, the Eureka Boss Smart Vac is consistently rated a CR Best Buy every year.  And all the big box retailers carry and sell this model for $149 (before sales and discounts).  It has proven performance, reliability and a great price. This is ALSO the point I made on this thread awhile back.  The May 2007 CR data reaffirms my point and gave me an excellent reason to post it here. Carmine D.

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