Vacuum Cleaners Discussions |
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pereztr
Joined: May 24, 2011
Points: 3
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Miele vs Simplicity vs something else?
Original Message May 24, 2011 7:47 am |
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Everyone recommends a different vacuum--I thought I narrowed it down to a Miele canister (for my mix of hardwood and area rugs), but doing further research I found out about Simplicity and Sebo. So what to buy? The sales guy at my local shop suggested a Miele Polaris (S4 series). I'm not thrilled about spending $400, but I want to get something that is effective (my husband and daughter have dust allergies), easy to use (I'm not a great housekeeper) and will last--my husband doesn't want to buy another vacuum cleaner (haha). After reading their brochure, I called about the Miele Olympus (S2 series), which is $100 cheaper. I'm not convinced the Polaris is worth the extra $100--any thoughts? Can I add the carpet attachments to the Olympus if I need to down the road? Is it worth looking into the Sebo or Simplicity? I would have to drive an hour to a shop that sells either of those. And then there's the Panasonic--cheaper, but worth it? I appreciate any feedback I can get.
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vacmanuk
Location: Scotland UK
Joined: May 31, 2009
Points: 1162
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Re: Miele vs Simplicity vs something else?
Reply #7 May 25, 2011 6:42 pm |
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pereztr;
The main difference between the C series and the K series is the size/weight. The C series has a larger bag, plus the bags are much easier to find, since they use the same bags as the X series uprights. There are also generic versions of this bag type available. The K series bags are smaller and expensive, though the filtration quality is better. The three attachments store in the C, while two store on and in the K. The dusting brush stores on a clip, on the wand. Sometimes the dusting brush can pop off, if hit just right. It could be worse, you could have all three stored on the wand. I do not care for the three attachment clip all that much, because it makes it difficult to get in between things.
If possible, why not look at your vacuum cleaner purchase as an investment and not something you HAVE TO purchase or DON'T WANT TO purchase. I am sure you could find things your husband WANTS TO purchase and does. You want something that works for you and one that you are going to use.
If I were to choose between the Miele and the SEBO, I would choose the Miele. Parts and supplies are easier to find and there are more choices available for those supplies like bags and filters. You can get generic if you have to(after the warranty expires, of course).
I would not leave out the Simplicity brand, or its sister brand Riccar. They have some very good canisters, with good warranties. I like that their bags and filters are cheaper than the Miele and SEBO. Plus, you will find that they are more readily available. Because these two brands are owned by the same company, Tacony Corp., Simplicity bags and filters will fit in your Riccar and Vice Versa.
I have to ask what kind of carpeting you have? Do you have any animals? I ask these thing, because it help determine what kind of vacuum you need. I do not think suction-only machines clean carpeting all that well. They pick up some debris, but also leave some. Animal/human hair is harder to pick up compared to a revolving brushroll. Over time, using suction-only canisters can make carpeting look less than perfect. You need a good revolving brushroll to comb and lift the fibers, plus get up the carpet destroying debris, like sand. Think of it another way, running the palm of your hand over you hair is not going to do as well as running your fingers through your hair. Just like running your fingers through your hair is not going to be as good as using a brush. If you have indoor/outdoor carpeting or even berber, these issues are not as bad. Using a power nozzle is going to be easier than pushing a suction-only rug attachment.
Do not fret over your purchase, because you will get a good vacuum cleaner no matter what. You just have to decide what features you want/like. You may not find everything you want in one vacuum cleaner, but concentrate on what is important to you. If you are still using your present vacuum, take your time in deciding. Test drive some and get a feel for them and their features. If there's sand and grit the SEBO is better made than Miele even though SEBO's paper bags site away from the motor, stone and hard dust pick up will not do any damage (a fact for the very reason that the same bags are used in the commercial X series/Windsor upright) Miele dust bins after the bag is taken out usually have signs of dust, sand and grit that can pierce the motor filter. That's why the C, K and D series are far better. In so far as the fact that you've provided info already that you have area rugs, an air driven turbo brush will be sufficient but as I reiterated, you could buy an additional turbo brush later at cheaper cost off EBAY or even Amazon. SEBO in Europe have just brought out new material bags that have the same filtration level as the SEBO K. Of course those will appear in the U.S in time, but in the meantime as I reiterated previously and as Mike_W, the C series takes the same paper bags as the Windsor Sensor/SEBO uprights. Those are 3 layer built in filtration. You also get 7 bags or 10 bags in a box compared to Miele's 4 in a box - therefore the Miele is more expensive in bag upkeep. Returning to the older idea with the S4 though - it's a great vacuum in a small home but for larger homes, the small 3.5 litre capacity can last up to a month to a month and a half. At worst 3 weeks depending on the traffic dirt your home gets and since sand is quite a heavy article, it also takes up a lot of air once it has landed in a bag, making the mechanical dust bag indicator on the Miele give false readings. With SEBO you always get a more reliable LED indicator. The small amount of cord on the Miele S4 gets around two to three rooms, although if you have a big apartment the S4 will suffer - unless you are prepared to plug swap every couple of rooms. This is where the bigger SEBO C will suffice offering 8 to 10 metres of cord whilst the K model also has 7 to 8 metres of cord compared to Miele's 5.5 metre cord on both S2 and S4 but a much smaller bag capacity ("K" refers to the word "Kompact," in German for obvious reasons) to the "C" and newer "D" series. If you need a power brush, the price will rise dramatically. Personally I'd keep it simple ; area rugs are hardly deep plush carpet and are made to withstand loads of different types of cleaning. Air driven turbo brushes would work best on this.
This message was modified May 25, 2011 by vacmanuk
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"There is no BEST or PERFECT vacuum cleaner"
"Take care of your vacuum, then your vacuum will take care of you"
Joined: Dec 1, 2004
Points: 1683
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Re: Miele vs Simplicity vs something else?
Reply #8 May 26, 2011 2:09 pm |
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If there's sand and grit the SEBO is better made than Miele even though SEBO's paper bags site away from the motor, stone and hard dust pick up will not do any damage (a fact for the very reason that the same bags are used in the commercial X series/Windsor upright) Miele dust bins after the bag is taken out usually have signs of dust, sand and grit that can pierce the motor filter. That's why the C, K and D series are far better. In so far as the fact that you've provided info already that you have area rugs, an air driven turbo brush will be sufficient but as I reiterated, you could buy an additional turbo brush later at cheaper cost off EBAY or even Amazon.
SEBO in Europe have just brought out new material bags that have the same filtration level as the SEBO K. Of course those will appear in the U.S in time, but in the meantime as I reiterated previously and as Mike_W, the C series takes the same paper bags as the Windsor Sensor/SEBO uprights. Those are 3 layer built in filtration. You also get 7 bags or 10 bags in a box compared to Miele's 4 in a box - therefore the Miele is more expensive in bag upkeep.
Returning to the older idea with the S4 though - it's a great vacuum in a small home but for larger homes, the small 3.5 litre capacity can last up to a month to a month and a half. At worst 3 weeks depending on the traffic dirt your home gets and since sand is quite a heavy article, it also takes up a lot of air once it has landed in a bag, making the mechanical dust bag indicator on the Miele give false readings. With SEBO you always get a more reliable LED indicator. The small amount of cord on the Miele S4 gets around two to three rooms, although if you have a big apartment the S4 will suffer - unless you are prepared to plug swap every couple of rooms. This is where the bigger SEBO C will suffice offering 8 to 10 metres of cord whilst the K model also has 7 to 8 metres of cord compared to Miele's 5.5 metre cord on both S2 and S4 but a much smaller bag capacity ("K" refers to the word "Kompact," in German for obvious reasons) to the "C" and newer "D" series.
If you need a power brush, the price will rise dramatically. Personally I'd keep it simple ; area rugs are hardly deep plush carpet and are made to withstand loads of different types of cleaning. Air driven turbo brushes would work best on this. If sand and grit is getting through the Miele and SEBO bags, we have a problem. I guess we could tell the two companies, then they could improve the bags more and raise the bag prices for its customers again. I cannot see sand getting through these vacuum bags. If they did, there is a filter to help stop it. There have been bags that burst, in the past, but the motor is saved by the filter. The SEBO's bag holder can actually malfunction; causing the bag to not move up and lock into place. This creates a gap where debris escapes the bag. Believe me, I have seen it. I am not sure you are familiar w/carpeting in the USA. We have all kinds of area/roomsize rugs. It can be flat sisal, indoor/outdoor and all the way to thick plush. I was at a friend's house the other day; who has area rugs throughout his house. I remember seeing very thick rugs down his hall. The invention of the brushroll has improved carpet cleaning quit a bit. At the tijme revolving brushrolls were invented, not everyone had thick carpeting. but people purchased them anyway. The got rugs cleaner. It is true that a power nozzle will cost more, but it can be worth it. You offer up a air-driven turbo brush. That may be okay, but I do not know what type of carpeting the OP has. We do not know how much there is also. If there is as much as my friend has, and the type of rugs my friend has and what he has to pick up, then I still would suggest a power nozzle.
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vacmanuk
Location: Scotland UK
Joined: May 31, 2009
Points: 1162
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Re: Miele vs Simplicity vs something else?
Reply #9 May 26, 2011 6:25 pm |
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If sand and grit is getting through the Miele and SEBO bags, we have a problem. I guess we could tell the two companies, then they could improve the bags more and raise the bag prices for its customers again. I cannot see sand getting through these vacuum bags. If they did, there is a filter to help stop it. There have been bags that burst, in the past, but the motor is saved by the filter. The SEBO's bag holder can actually malfunction; causing the bag to not move up and lock into place. This creates a gap where debris escapes the bag. Believe me, I have seen it.
I am not sure you are familiar w/carpeting in the USA. We have all kinds of area/roomsize rugs. It can be flat sisal, indoor/outdoor and all the way to thick plush. I was at a friend's house the other day; who has area rugs throughout his house. I remember seeing very thick rugs down his hall. The invention of the brushroll has improved carpet cleaning quit a bit. At the tijme revolving brushrolls were invented, not everyone had thick carpeting. but people purchased them anyway. The got rugs cleaner.
It is true that a power nozzle will cost more, but it can be worth it. You offer up a air-driven turbo brush. That may be okay, but I do not know what type of carpeting the OP has. We do not know how much there is also. If there is as much as my friend has, and the type of rugs my friend has and what he has to pick up, then I still would suggest a power nozzle. Sorry Mike but if you had read the first post that our consumer friend has put, price has a lot to do with it and I'm trying to get around the more economical situation here by offering a cheaper and versatile option. Obviously if money was no object, a power nozzle on the Miele would be the best solution, but our consumer here needs a vacuum both for hard floor and area rugs at most. I'm aware of what kind of textures area rugs in the U.S are made of though - our town in Scotland was resident to a U.S naval base from 1960 to 1990 where the military families had their own furnishings, own appliances and own vacuums - one part of the town also had a large American launderette ... A lot of my American friends had sisal rugs, early Berber styles and a lot of short compacted velvet shag pile which was a total pain to clean felt or thread from since it wraps around the pile and only a revolving brush roll can get them off. Some residents who have stayed on have more modern American rugs, thicker pile, synthetic types, much better quality than the UK stuff. In terms of the bag - Miele's paper bags were liable to burst in motors fitted with 1800 (U.S 1200 watts?) watts or more. I guess this will be different in the U.S of which certain Miele vacuums with lower wattages will be applicable. The material dust bags in the current Miele vacuums do not burst - however when they are taken out, at the base of the bin, Which UK found that some dust was left behind - this is more evident on the top of the bin lid when you open the Miele canisters and can see dust on the top below the hose/dust channel meets the bag. Miele have improved this design over the years by fitting a rubber squeegee around the perimeter of the bin area so that dust does not escape - however the user manual does point out that SAND and DIY work will decrease the suction and fill up the bag more, therefore causing dust leakage and problems to the filter on board IF the consumer ignores it. Also the filter is hardly a fail safe to protect dust and hard dirt from not entering the motor. Hoover in the UK fitted a plastic PVC coating on the backs of their motor protection filters to stop this from happening if it ever did - Miele's actual honeycomb cage that holds the motor filter in is a good obstructive design to stop nails or glass etc from invading the thin filter, but it isn't effective enough. For the fact that the consumer here states that her daughter has allergies, I have pointed out the extra cost optional carbon based Active Air Clean filter or HEPA filter which is geared more towards pet owners. In both cases as you may know, Miele warn against pick up of sand and DIY work as they can damage both filters compared to the pleated microfilter "Super Air Clean." I know of the SEBO design problem on the K & C series - it doesn't always happen, but down to owners who don't fit the bags properly or wait to hear the "click" when the bags are inserted. Yours truly did this when I first bought a SEBO K1 and was lucky that the holder did not break. However this is as not as costly to replace as a damaged motor on a Miele - and it can be hard for repair personnel to even touch the motor if it gets damaged - I have first hand experience of this circa Christmas 2010! Of course at the end of the day U.S Miele canisters are available with the S4 rechargeable motorized "power nozzle" but I'm not convinced that it does a supreme effort when a mains power corded type that supplies continuous power would be better. Sadly for the S4, as far as I'm aware, there is only this option of the rechargeable battery packs OR the air driven full size turbo brush. Since I have no clue about Simplicity - since they don't sell in the U.K - others I'm sure can add to this discussion, especially in light of the fact that OP here has specifically wondered about either SEBO or Simplicity as well as Miele as a future purchase.
This message was modified May 26, 2011 by vacmanuk
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"There is no BEST or PERFECT vacuum cleaner"
"Take care of your vacuum, then your vacuum will take care of you"
Joined: Dec 1, 2004
Points: 1683
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Re: Miele vs Simplicity vs something else?
Reply #12 May 27, 2011 8:32 pm |
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Sorry Mike but if you had read the first post that our consumer friend has put, price has a lot to do with it and I'm trying to get around the more economical situation here by offering a cheaper and versatile option. Obviously if money was no object, a power nozzle on the Miele would be the best solution, but our consumer here needs a vacuum both for hard floor and area rugs at most. I'm aware of what kind of textures area rugs in the U.S are made of though - our town in Scotland was resident to a U.S naval base from 1960 to 1990 where the military families had their own furnishings, own appliances and own vacuums - one part of the town also had a large American launderette ... A lot of my American friends had sisal rugs, early Berber styles and a lot of short compacted velvet shag pile which was a total pain to clean felt or thread from since it wraps around the pile and only a revolving brush roll can get them off. Some residents who have stayed on have more modern American rugs, thicker pile, synthetic types, much better quality than the UK stuff.
In terms of the bag - Miele's paper bags were liable to burst in motors fitted with 1800 (U.S 1200 watts?) watts or more. I guess this will be different in the U.S of which certain Miele vacuums with lower wattages will be applicable. The material dust bags in the current Miele vacuums do not burst - however when they are taken out, at the base of the bin, Which UK found that some dust was left behind - this is more evident on the top of the bin lid when you open the Miele canisters and can see dust on the top below the hose/dust channel meets the bag. Miele have improved this design over the years by fitting a rubber squeegee around the perimeter of the bin area so that dust does not escape - however the user manual does point out that SAND and DIY work will decrease the suction and fill up the bag more, therefore causing dust leakage and problems to the filter on board IF the consumer ignores it. Also the filter is hardly a fail safe to protect dust and hard dirt from not entering the motor. Hoover in the UK fitted a plastic PVC coating on the backs of their motor protection filters to stop this from happening if it ever did - Miele's actual honeycomb cage that holds the motor filter in is a good obstructive design to stop nails or glass etc from invading the thin filter, but it isn't effective enough.
For the fact that the consumer here states that her daughter has allergies, I have pointed out the extra cost optional carbon based Active Air Clean filter or HEPA filter which is geared more towards pet owners. In both cases as you may know, Miele warn against pick up of sand and DIY work as they can damage both filters compared to the pleated microfilter "Super Air Clean."
I know of the SEBO design problem on the K & C series - it doesn't always happen, but down to owners who don't fit the bags properly or wait to hear the "click" when the bags are inserted. Yours truly did this when I first bought a SEBO K1 and was lucky that the holder did not break. However this is as not as costly to replace as a damaged motor on a Miele - and it can be hard for repair personnel to even touch the motor if it gets damaged - I have first hand experience of this circa Christmas 2010!
Of course at the end of the day U.S Miele canisters are available with the S4 rechargeable motorized "power nozzle" but I'm not convinced that it does a supreme effort when a mains power corded type that supplies continuous power would be better. Sadly for the S4, as far as I'm aware, there is only this option of the rechargeable battery packs OR the air driven full size turbo brush.
Since I have no clue about Simplicity - since they don't sell in the U.K - others I'm sure can add to this discussion, especially in light of the fact that OP here has specifically wondered about either SEBO or Simplicity as well as Miele as a future purchase. Saying "I cannot afford it" and "My husband doesn't want to..." do not mean the same thing. I am never one to push something on someone, which they cannot afford. There are those who would spend a fortune on a HD TV, clothes, car, etc. When it comes to vacuum cleaners, it is "We don't need it". I am one who believes that any vacuum cleaner is better than no vacuum cleaner. With the OP, not everything was explained. If the OP would have come back and said, it is not in our budget, that would be fine. I have used this philosophy since I was a child. I do not llimit myself and what I get. I have told some, on this and other forums, to not just jump on the cheapest machine. If you can, plan and save for it. Then you will get it. I am not one who was a stranger to hard times. But that did not limit what I could get. If the OP was truly having difficulties, I think that person should go w/the Miele S2. It is still a good machine. I would even suggest the HOOVER Windtunnel bagged canister. There are some great deals out there for it, if you do some searching. It may not last 20yrs., but is should not break down in 2-3yrs either. Miele does talk about some debris like flour, plaster, sand, etc. Every vacuum cleaner brand, including dyson, even tells you to change the bag/empty the bin more often. What will happen is the bag will clog up, even it the bag is not full. I am sure that is what you probably meant to say. The amount of normal sand we have in the US is not going to clog the bag. What they probably meant was if someone vacuumed up a cup of it, it is going to clog faster. The whole bottom of the bag is layered w/sand; taking away the bottom of the breathable bag. We do not need to be so extreme by worrying that the material is going to get passed the filter and damage the motor. That does not happen often. The new owner must read the instruction manual and follow it. If they do not follow it, then it is their fault if their vacuum is damaged. I have seen plenty of vacuums where bags have broken, but the premotor filter has caught it. True, some fine dust may have gone passed the motor, but the motor survived. Motors are not delicate. I did talk about the Simplicity/Riccar and believe they would be a good choice, in a very good vacuum cleaner. Bags and filter are going to be cheaper than Meile and SEBO. If the OP wants to know, I can give more details, since I am well acquainted w/the two brands.
This message was modified May 27, 2011 by Mike_W
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vacmanuk
Location: Scotland UK
Joined: May 31, 2009
Points: 1162
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Re: Miele vs Simplicity vs something else?
Reply #14 May 28, 2011 9:07 pm |
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Saying "I cannot afford it" and "My husband doesn't want to..." do not mean the same thing. I am never one to push something on someone, which they cannot afford. There are those who would spend a fortune on a HD TV, clothes, car, etc. When it comes to vacuum cleaners, it is "We don't need it". I am one who believes that any vacuum cleaner is better than no vacuum cleaner. With the OP, not everything was explained. If the OP would have come back and said, it is not in our budget, that would be fine. I have used this philosophy since I was a child. I do not llimit myself and what I get. I have told some, on this and other forums, to not just jump on the cheapest machine. If you can, plan and save for it. Then you will get it. I am not one who was a stranger to hard times. But that did not limit what I could get. If the OP was truly having difficulties, I think that person should go w/the Miele S2. It is still a good machine. I would even suggest the HOOVER Windtunnel bagged canister. There are some great deals out there for it, if you do some searching. It may not last 20yrs., but is should not break down in 2-3yrs either.
Miele does talk about some debris like flour, plaster, sand, etc. Every vacuum cleaner brand, including dyson, even tells you to change the bag/empty the bin more often. What will happen is the bag will clog up, even it the bag is not full. I am sure that is what you probably meant to say. The amount of normal sand we have in the US is not going to clog the bag. What they probably meant was if someone vacuumed up a cup of it, it is going to clog faster. The whole bottom of the bag is layered w/sand; taking away the bottom of the breathable bag. We do not need to be so extreme by worrying that the material is going to get passed the filter and damage the motor. That does not happen often. The new owner must read the instruction manual and follow it. If they do not follow it, then it is their fault if their vacuum is damaged. I have seen plenty of vacuums where bags have broken, but the premotor filter has caught it. True, some fine dust may have gone passed the motor, but the motor survived. Motors are not delicate.
I did talk about the Simplicity/Riccar and believe they would be a good choice, in a very good vacuum cleaner. Bags and filter are going to be cheaper than Meile and SEBO. If the OP wants to know, I can give more details, since I am well acquainted w/the two brands. The OP has come to this forum with ideas already of what they want to buy and they were asking what the best solution is. They did not mention Miele's S2, Mike and I'm surprised as a moderator and to anyone else, that it took a heck of a long time for anyone in this forum to answer back to the OP. Seems when I made a suggestion, suddenly everyone else comes into the forum straight away - after the postings were made. I'm only relaying MY OWN experience with Miele vacuums where sand is concerned. The U.K geographically has a less sand than the U.S in general. We're more a dry or wet nation used to water, snow, high winds, less sand though in more recent times with the amount of hurricans the world is having and earthquakes, the U.K is getting the same degree of dust "in the air." The point about the Miele with its bag shows that there is very little to actually separate the motor between the bag with the use of "just" a filter. I guarantee you that if you take out a Miele bag if garden sand/soil has been brought into the home, it doesn't always meet the bag, but rather sits underneath the bag on the base - evident when you take the bag out and look at it! Miele motors are delicate - and it has been discussed in other forums - even professional service people know how delicate Miele make their vacuum cleaner motors. If you are well acquainted with Simplicity, then what are you waiting for? Dive straight in - as I said in my original post, I have no experience of Simplicity since they don't sell in the U.K
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"There is no BEST or PERFECT vacuum cleaner"
"Take care of your vacuum, then your vacuum will take care of you"
Joined: Dec 1, 2004
Points: 1683
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Re: Miele vs Simplicity vs something else?
Reply #15 May 29, 2011 2:30 am |
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The OP has come to this forum with ideas already of what they want to buy and they were asking what the best solution is. They did not mention Miele's S2, Mike and I'm surprised as a moderator and to anyone else, that it took a heck of a long time for anyone in this forum to answer back to the OP. Seems when I made a suggestion, suddenly everyone else comes into the forum straight away - after the postings were made.
I'm only relaying MY OWN experience with Miele vacuums where sand is concerned. The U.K geographically has a less sand than the U.S in general. We're more a dry or wet nation used to water, snow, high winds, less sand though in more recent times with the amount of hurricans the world is having and earthquakes, the U.K is getting the same degree of dust "in the air."
The point about the Miele with its bag shows that there is very little to actually separate the motor between the bag with the use of "just" a filter. I guarantee you that if you take out a Miele bag if garden sand/soil has been brought into the home, it doesn't always meet the bag, but rather sits underneath the bag on the base - evident when you take the bag out and look at it!
Miele motors are delicate - and it has been discussed in other forums - even professional service people know how delicate Miele make their vacuum cleaner motors.
If you are well acquainted with Simplicity, then what are you waiting for? Dive straight in - as I said in my original post, I have no experience of Simplicity since they don't sell in the U.K
I did not realize we had to respond so quickly. I have mentioned here before, that I do not feel I have to come on here and post every few hours. I really do not think 24hrs. is a"heck of a long time". Do not worry about it.
The OP did mention the S2, so I made a comment. OP also mentioned Simplicity, so I made a comment. If the OP wants to post again, and inquire, then I am only happy to give input.
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