Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Sorry Mike but if you had read the first post that our consumer friend has put, price has a lot to do with it and I'm trying to get around the more economical situation here by offering a cheaper and versatile option. Obviously if money was no object, a power nozzle on the Miele would be the best solution, but our consumer here needs a vacuum both for hard floor and area rugs at most. I'm aware of what kind of textures area rugs in the U.S are made of though - our town in Scotland was resident to a U.S naval base from 1960 to 1990 where the military families had their own furnishings, own appliances and own vacuums - one part of the town also had a large American launderette ... A lot of my American friends had sisal rugs, early Berber styles and a lot of short compacted velvet shag pile which was a total pain to clean felt or thread from since it wraps around the pile and only a revolving brush roll can get them off. Some residents who have stayed on have more modern American rugs, thicker pile, synthetic types, much better quality than the UK stuff.

In terms of the bag - Miele's paper bags were liable to burst in motors fitted with 1800 (U.S 1200 watts?) watts or more. I guess this will be different in the U.S of which certain Miele vacuums with lower wattages will be applicable. The material dust bags in the current Miele vacuums do not burst - however when they are taken out, at the base of the bin, Which UK found that some dust was left behind - this is more evident on the top of the bin lid when you open the Miele canisters and can see dust on the top below the hose/dust channel meets the bag. Miele have improved this design over the years by fitting a rubber squeegee around the perimeter of the bin area so that dust does not escape - however the user manual does point out that SAND and DIY work will decrease the suction and fill up the bag more, therefore causing dust leakage and problems to the filter on board IF the consumer ignores it. Also the filter is hardly a fail safe to protect dust and hard dirt from not entering the motor. Hoover in the UK fitted a plastic PVC coating on the backs of their motor protection filters to stop this from happening if it ever did - Miele's actual honeycomb cage that holds the motor filter in is a good obstructive design to stop nails or glass etc from invading the thin filter, but it isn't effective enough.

For the fact that the consumer here states that her daughter has allergies, I have pointed out the extra cost optional carbon based Active Air Clean filter or HEPA filter which is geared more towards pet owners. In both cases as you may know, Miele warn against pick up of sand and DIY work as they can damage both filters compared to the pleated microfilter "Super Air Clean."

I know of the SEBO design problem on the K & C series - it doesn't always happen, but down to owners who don't fit the bags properly or wait to hear the "click" when the bags are inserted. Yours truly did this when I first bought a SEBO K1 and was lucky that the holder did not break. However this is as not as costly to replace as a damaged motor on a Miele - and it can be hard for repair personnel to even touch the motor if it gets damaged - I have first hand experience of this circa Christmas 2010!

Of course at the end of the day U.S Miele canisters are available with the S4 rechargeable motorized "power nozzle" but I'm not convinced that it does a supreme effort when a mains power corded type that supplies continuous power would be better. Sadly for the S4, as far as I'm aware, there is only this option of the rechargeable battery packs OR the air driven full size turbo brush.

Since I have no clue about Simplicity - since they don't sell in the U.K - others I'm sure can add to this discussion, especially in light of the fact that OP here has specifically wondered about either SEBO or Simplicity as well as Miele as a future purchase.

So does the Sebo Felix have any bag issues?  I noticed that the Sebo Felix is on www.costco.com.  Given that you can trade the power nozzle out for a wood floor brush, it seems like a nice option for this kind of household. 

Saying "I cannot afford it" and "My husband doesn't want to..." do not mean the same thing.  I am never one to push something on someone, which they cannot afford.  There are those who would spend a fortune on a HD TV, clothes, car, etc.  When it comes to vacuum cleaners, it is "We don't need it".  I am one who believes that any vacuum cleaner is better than no vacuum cleaner.  With the OP, not everything was explained.  If the OP would have come back and said, it is not in our budget, that would be fine.  I have used this philosophy since I was a child.  I do not llimit myself and what I get.  I have told some, on this and other forums, to not just jump on the cheapest machine.  If you can, plan and save for it.  Then you will get it.  I am not one who was a stranger to hard times.  But that did not limit what I could get.  If the OP was truly having difficulties, I think that person should go w/the Miele S2.  It is still a good machine.  I would even suggest the HOOVER Windtunnel bagged canister.  There are some great deals out there for it, if you do some searching.  It may not last 20yrs., but is should not break down in 2-3yrs either. 

Miele does talk about some debris like flour, plaster, sand, etc.  Every vacuum cleaner brand, including dyson, even tells you to change the bag/empty the bin more often.  What will happen is the bag will clog up, even it the bag is not full.  I am sure that is what you probably meant to say. The amount of normal sand we have in the US is not going to clog the bag.  What they probably meant was if someone vacuumed up a cup of it, it is going to clog faster.  The whole bottom of the bag is layered w/sand; taking away the bottom of the breathable bag.  We do not need to be so extreme by worrying that the material is going to get passed the filter and damage the motor.  That does not happen often.  The new owner must read the instruction manual and follow it.  If they do not follow it, then it is their fault if their vacuum is damaged.  I have seen plenty of vacuums where bags have broken, but the premotor filter has caught it.  True, some fine dust may have gone passed the motor, but the motor survived.  Motors are not  delicate.

I did talk about the Simplicity/Riccar and believe they would be a good choice, in a very good vacuum cleaner.  Bags and filter are going to be cheaper than Meile and SEBO.  If the OP wants to know, I can give more details, since I am well acquainted w/the two brands.

The OP has come to this forum with ideas already of what they want to buy and they were asking what the best solution is. They did not mention Miele's S2, Mike and I'm surprised as a moderator and to anyone else, that it took a heck of a long time for anyone in this forum to answer back to the OP. Seems when I made a suggestion, suddenly everyone else comes into the forum straight away - after the postings were made.

I'm only relaying MY OWN experience with Miele vacuums where sand is concerned. The U.K geographically has a less sand than the U.S in general. We're more a dry or wet nation used to water, snow, high winds, less sand though in more recent times with the amount of hurricans the world is having and earthquakes, the U.K is getting the same degree of dust "in the air."

The point about the Miele with its bag shows that there is very little to actually separate the motor between the bag with the use of "just" a filter. I guarantee you that if you take out a Miele bag if garden sand/soil has been brought into the home, it doesn't always meet the bag, but rather sits underneath the bag on the base - evident when you take the bag out and look at it!

Miele motors are delicate - and it has been discussed in other forums - even professional service people know how delicate Miele make their vacuum cleaner motors.

If you are well acquainted with Simplicity, then what are you waiting for? Dive straight in - as I said in my original post, I have no experience of Simplicity since they don't sell in the U.K

To the original poster...my advice would be to buy the Miele S2 Delphi, for a few reasons: It is made in Germany and uses the 1200W Miele Vortex motor (the same as all other current Miele vacuums). It uses the larger G/N bags, which hold quite a bit more compared to the FJM of the S4. WHen you have pets, that makes a difference. Finally, it comes with an electrified hose with pistol grip, on/off switch for the power nozzle, a telescoping electrified wand, and the SEB 217 nozzle. This is a small and quiet nozzle, and while it does have soft bristles, combined with the Miele suction it wants for nothing in regards to pet hair pickup...it's very effective. It also has a squeegee-type strip behind the brushes that catches everything...it's a very effective hard-floor nozzle. The 217 is so light and quiet (and gentle) that I often connect it directly to the handle and use it for stairs or the couch. At $499.00 in the US, it's an incredible deal, unbeatable in my opinion. If you opt for spending $99 more, you can get the red Titan which adds a bare floor tool and a HEPA filter...the Delphi uses the clean air filter that comes with each box of bags, and is quite effective in my opinion. It's also upgradeable to the HEPA. I don't work for Miele, but I do have an S4 and an S2, and the S2 is a better machine in every way (bigger bag capacity, power nozzle). I hope that maybe helps you in some way.

The OP had actually considered the S2 and also considered SEBO, also made in Germany. With SEBO you get HEPA/S Class as standard and the models are far more efficient offering the floor tools with little price changes. My original feeling was to offer the OP choices of remaining lightweight for a canister since this is what they preferred and having hard floor for the majority of the time over a few spare area rugs doesn't warrant the extra expense of a powered brush in my experience. Having both the S2 and S4, I know what I prefer when it comes to quality. Here in the UK, so many different sellers are selling the base S5210 and S5211 models that it doesn't make much sense to consider the S2, one of the reasons to why Miele are still keeping the S4 in production a little longer even though the S6 is taking its place. The S2 just isn't very well made; you can see that when you open the bin door and watch the suction control bend inwards.

 The OP did mention the S2, so I made a comment. 

 

To the original poster...my advice would be to buy the Miele S2 Delphi, for a few reasons: It is made in Germany and uses the 1200W Miele Vortex motor (the same as all other current Miele vacuums). It uses the larger G/N bags, which hold quite a bit more compared to the FJM of the S4. WHen you have pets, that makes a difference. Finally, it comes with an electrified hose with pistol grip, on/off switch for the power nozzle, a telescoping electrified wand, and the SEB 217 nozzle. This is a small and quiet nozzle, and while it does have soft bristles, combined with the Miele suction it wants for nothing in regards to pet hair pickup...it's very effective. It also has a squeegee-type strip behind the brushes that catches everything...it's a very effective hard-floor nozzle. The 217 is so light and quiet (and gentle) that I often connect it directly to the handle and use it for stairs or the couch. At $499.00 in the US, it's an incredible deal, unbeatable in my opinion. If you opt for spending $99 more, you can get the red Titan which adds a bare floor tool and a HEPA filter...the Delphi uses the clean air filter that comes with each box of bags, and is quite effective in my opinion. It's also upgradeable to the HEPA. I don't work for Miele, but I do have an S4 and an S2, and the S2 is a better machine in every way (bigger bag capacity, power nozzle). I hope that maybe helps you in some way.

There is no comparison between the S4 and S2 comparing build quality and Sealed system. The S4 is a VERY well built, solid machine with a totally sealed system. I hope the new replacement for the S4 will have the same quality as the present S4 and not the S2.