Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Hello Keith:

You're a good son.  I suggest you call dyson and ask first.  I'm going to opine that the repair will cost you, from dyson, $100.  Brush [$ 30 OTC about and belt replacement $5 OTC] and shipping costs.  You can do it yourself and save money.  Cost more, possibly if you need a clutch [about $40 OTC].  After 7 years, the cyclones need cleaning/blowing out.  Not sure what dyson charges for this service.  Most vacuum repairers charge $30-$50 for this cyclone cleaning service.  It's a dirty job.  After all is said and done, whether you do it yourself or have it done professionally, you have a 7 year old dyson vacuum that still won't pick up as well as most uprights on rugs [evidenced by your experience with the BISSELL].  No doubt the reason dyson discontinued these brush rolls and DC07 and DC14 models for models with better brush rolls.

Carmine D.

Interesting vacmanuk that you mention this.  I think dyson does a very good job walking its users through a step by step process of servicing and trouble shooting its products.  But .....nowhere in any of its web site narratives does dyson mention this dirt path channel.  No where.  An obvious stumpling block for rug suction if clogged.  Glad you mentioned this. Maybe a dyson employee/web site person will notice this exchange and add the step to its site.

Carmine D.

Maybe they should buy a Rainbow? 

Carmine D.

Hello Vacmanuk:

DC17 rolled out in the US in Feb 2007.  It's still on the US dyson web site with an MSRP of $449, just the All Floors model, and comes with a 5 year limited warranty.  No longer an Absolute Animal for $549 in the USA as before.  DC17 has been discontinued in the UK, I presume, because it no longer appears on the UK dyson web site.  I've heard rumors the same fate will befall DC17 in the USA, it will be scrubbed.

Carmine D.

Hello DC18 & Vacmanuk:

Thanks for the message exchange and clarification on DC17 in UK. 

WRT dyson warranty in USA, all models sold from April 2002 through August 15, 2006 came with 2 year limited warranty, including the handhelds.  All dyson models sold in the USA after August 15, 2006 come with 5 year limited warranty except handhelds and DC35 Slim.  Latter have 2 year limited warranty.  Remanufactured dysons sold in the USA from dyson regardless of model have 6 month limited warranty.

Carmine D.

Hello vacmanuk:

In the USA vacuum store owners and operators have discretion on setting prices and warranty periods on "used," "rebuilt," "reconditioned," and "overhauled" re-sold models.  I typically use the term "remanufacture" exclusively for brands and models rebuilt by the original brand maker.  These latter re-sellers have prices and warranty periods established by the makers.  Vacuum store owners can "extend" and/or "embellish" the makers' warranty period but do so at their own risk. 

When I was in business, I typically sold MY rebuilts, refurbs, and reconditioned brands and models with the same warranty that the makers' gave new.  In my day, that was usually one year for the most part.  Deciding whether to resell and/or part out brands and models is an individual and/or store policy.  I never sold "used" Rexair/Rainbows.  If I got them in on trade, I parted them out: Used them to perform repairs and sell parts.  Naturally as used and discounted from new parts' prices. 

I sold new brands and models and was a factory authorized warranty dealer for the several brands I sold concurrently.  I always kept the product registration cards for these brands and models, with the customers' approval, so IF a vacuum failed out of warranty by a short and reasonable period, I could warranty for customers without their additional costs.

Carmine D.

Thank you.

Carmine D.

Your Dad is absolutely right.  $35 to replace brush roll and belt and it should be a do-it-yourself job.  No special tools required.  Why on God's green earth Consumer Reports didn't [hasn't] taken dyson to task for this on DC07 and DC14 models is beyond me.  Not really I know the reason.  Both are discontinued now so it's a moot issue.

Carmine D.

Venson

Hello Keith:

I'm not the least surprised.  Very typical of dyson and its proclivity on over-engineering.  Hard to let go of product failures and move on in a new/different directions.  Especially if it means accepting the tried and true standards of the industry which have past the test of time and consumer confidence. 

Carmine D.

Hello Vacmanuk:

RICCAR/SIMPLICITY and others use [for many years in the industry] a fail safe switch that automatically shuts off the motor when the brush roll is under a strain and not revolving normally.  Allows the user to unclog the obstruction in the nozzle head then restart with the fail safe switch.  No clutch involved.  Haven't seen the $130 clutch on any USA vacuums yet except for dyson.  And.... I thought, until Keith told me, they were gone after DC07 and DC14.  If clutches are the wave of the future for vacuums in the USA, I'm glad I retired.  Brush rolls and belts should be a user replacement for $40 repair for both with no special tools required.

Carmine D.

Hello Trebor:

The brush roll in the Guardian is wood and extra long length.  I would recommend replacement of brush roll complete, belt and bulb for $80 even if 7 or more years old.  The Guardian will easily last 20 plus years.  As will the MIELE.  Dyson DC14 with clutch?  7 years is a good run.  I wouldn't expend $100 to fit a DC 14 with a new brush roll and belt.  I'd do exactly as Keith opined.  Resell as is and use the money on another vacuum purchase. 

Carmine D.

Hello Vacmanuk:

Are these belt/clutch set ups recent developments in the VAX/TTI models or a long standing feature?  What are the costs for repairs for belts when sent back for replacement? 

Thanks for the info.

Carmine D.

This advice is, of course, given by someone that has two American Eskimo dogs and vacuums at least once, sometimes more per day. 

Hello Vacmanuk:

You've hit the nail on the head. Why build in a $ 140 repair bill [for clutch/belt] to protect a $75 motor?  Doesn't make sense UNLESS you want to guarantee that owners replace rather than repair when something as little as a belt is needed.

Carmine D.

Hello Just:

Excellent point.  In the future, before cleaning the rugs, vacuum daily with a good working vacuum.  Vacuuming each section with the 7 passes forward and backward method.  Then, shampoo the carpets.  Some may even find that the sahmpooing of carpets may not be needed.  Just spot cleaning.

Carmine D.

I'm sure Vacmanuk that dyson is pleased by that in the UK.  Not sure the same dyson brand loyalty exists here in the USA where vacuum store owners and operators are not wedded to Sir James and his vacuum brand.  We have been told here once many years ago by a dyson employee, using dyson originated numbers as support, that the USA comprised 2/3 of the dyson market in new vacuum sales.  That's big share.  Not sure that percentage was and/or is accurate in the USA especially in recent years.  Why?  First, dyson has produced and sold alot of very mediocre vacuums at very high prices in the USA.  So there's a dyson track record.  Second, dyson has produced and sold some real lemons too, especially canns, a growing vacuum market in the USA in recent years.  Third, with the latest increases in bagless competition and clones of dyson at considerable lower retail prices, USA consumers have more options.  As in the the case of LG and even Shark, better bagless technologies [compression of dirt in the dirt bin with 1/3 fewer dirt bin dumps and/or completely washable cyclones] at the same prices and even less.  Forcing retailers to discount dysons regularly at least 20 percent off MSRP.  Something unheard of when dyson launched in the USA.  10 percent was the maximum off retail.  Finally, the sustained depressed economy in the USA, and in Europe, seeing sales of new high priced big box store vacuums wane considerable over the last 3 plus years.  With sales of lower priced bagged and bagless vacuums increasing.  As these have proved worthy contenders, whatever little dyson loyalty may have once existed for the new brand, is/has rapidly disappeared.

Carmine D.

Not exactly but very close.  Dyson has a certain brand loyalty in the UK due to Sir James.  No such here.  There are certainly more vacuum options now both bagged and bagless as good if not better than dyson performance and longevity at dyson prices AND even less.  LG, Electrolux, Shark just to mention a few.  That was not the case when dyson rolled out in April 2002 in the USA.  Dyson had a lock on the bagless market in the USA.  Not so any more.  American vacuum consumers are use to belt and brush replacements for their vacuums after 5 years at reasonable costs.  When they get a bid from dyson for the same repair, or take into the local dyson authorized repair store and hear $100 or more for the fix, they are highly unlikely to spend the amount for the repair, especially now when they have bagged/bagless options.

Carmine D.

Let's take the 3 brands and models I indicated in my posts:  LG kompressor.  Electrolux Nimble.  Shark Navigator.  And dyson's DC07 which is discontinued.  Replaced now with DC33.  Approximate MSRP: LG Luv 200 is $300.  Electrolux is $300. Shark Navigator is $180.  DC33 is $400.  usual retail about $280 [LG 200]; Nimble still $300 but I expect will sell with at least 10 percent discounts; Shark Nav $150; DC33 sells for $319.  Warranty.  LG, 6 years. Nimble 5 years. Shark 7 years. Dyson 5 years.  All bagless.  LG offers light, cordwinder, compression technology reduces bin dumps by 1/3.  Electrolux Nimble offers maneuverabilty [like higher priced dyson ball models]. Shark allows washing of cyclones.  and maneurability.  Dyson cyclones require cleaning at $30-$50 per service.  DC33 has infamous clutch.  The comparative other models do not.  So confronted with a fix of $100 for a belt/brush on a dyson DC07 considering just the other 3 available options I listed, what would a customer do?  Add to this now, that 1/3 of bagless users [according to a Consumer Reports survey] now say it is a dirty job to dump the dirt bin?  Spend $100 plus on repair, or buy new bagless with 5-6-7 year warranty and easier and less expensive brush/belt replacement than clutched dyson?  Freedom of choice.  look at other options: Less expensive HOOVER/TTI bagged/bagless.  EUREKA, BISSELL, DIRT DEVIL, all of which are $100 or less with 2 plus years of warranty. 

Or shop at a vacuum store and buy new MIELE, RICCAR/SIMPLICITY,ORECK, SEARS, Panosonic and on and on at $300 plus rather than $100 repair for belt/brush on a 5 year or older dyson? 

Carmine D.

Very interesting Vacmanuk.  Another factor that holds sway here in the USA WRT dyson repairs [in fact any/all repairs] are the vacuum repair store owner/operators.  Oftentimes customers confronted with a steep repair charge and an older vacuum will ask the store owner/operators: Is the vacuum worth fixing?  I suspect I know the answer in 4 out of 5 cases with older dysons.  I recall a dyson owner who posted here who purchased a new dyson from a big box store that failed after several months.  Dyson referred dyson owner to a local authorized dyson dealer for a repair under warranty.  When the customer got their with his defected dyson, he noticed the vacuum store sold MIELE, SEBO, RICCAR/Simplicity and other vacuum brands but no dysons.  I can only imagine what the conversation went like between the vacuum store owner and the dyson owner. 

Carmine D.

Of course I guess it all depends on the amount of charges that franchises/wherever the owner purchased the appliance from are also heaping on the charge and here, we can insert ideas of independent repairers against franchise ones. I recall having constant problems with Comet staff who wouldn't drop down a £70 charge for a replacement dish for a Sharp microwave I once owned. The oven had just passed the warranty and the company just wouldn't budge on the price. In the end I contacted an independent supplier who could get the same part at far less cost. It's the independents like this who sometimes sway buyers to go with another franchise. The warranty systems they have in the UK under franchise is called "Domestic and General," and has an average charge for an extended guarantee which often runs into problems by owners, especially when the franchise haven't looked at the existing guarantee that covers the machine the buyer has paid for, often overlooking certain conditions set by the brand warranty. Sometimes it feels like a token gesture but when buyers don't research alternatives, they then get ripped off by the franchise repair costs and could have got a cheaper deal by going independent.

BEST BUY stores have been the largest retail seller of dyson vacuums in the USA.  This chain launched dysons in 2002.  However, the Best Buy stores have taken in alot of the latest bagged and bagless competitors to dyson with much sales success, I'm told.  In large part because the high prices of dysons don't sell in the current market and economy.  I'm told BEST BUY's best yearly sales of dysons was 2006 and it's been down hill dyson-wise since.  Very similar to your experiences in the UK.  Alot more less expensive vacuum options for consumers.  Plus, BEST BUY stores are struggling financially and recently losing sales to its competitors. 

Carmine D.

1. It isn't fair to judge an older model using the more modern versions - more modern versions that have more or increased features will sway buyers from their favourite model - or the model which has stood the test of time. 7 years in my opinion for a Dyson upright is a long time. Others may disagree.
2. If you have a perfectly working Oreck upright Carmine, that needs something comparatively priced in parts cost and you've owned it for a long time - would you go out and buy the latest Oreck or stick with the old? As someone famous said "if it aint broke, dont fix it.' I think it applies the other way around too - especially if a vacuum cleaner has outlasted expectations or has gone through years of "abuse" due to the amount of traffic dirt it has picked up so far.
   
3. Even if the list of rivals you have listed is endlessly cheaper to buy, there are other Dyson models out there which are, in my opinion are better. These rivals don't have the increased cyclone wear or filters that can be left without cleaning out. The Root Cyclones are far better than the Dual Cyclone method - which companies are now catching up on. 
4. You have changed the subject around to a subjective opinion based on alternatives to replacing the Dyson DC07. The original member posted the query on whether it was worth spending that much money on repair. Yet, unless it has actually undergone the repair and continues to bust up after the repair cost has been paid for, then obviously the model should be replaced. If however it gives perfect performance, then I don't think spending $100 is really that much to complain about. Try $162 to $180 - because that's how much it cost US in the U.K on average to get a vacuum cleaner like the Dyson DC07 repaired.
   

The issue Vacmanuk for the dyson DC07 owner user is this: Is a belt and brush replacement on a 7 year old DC07 worth $100 repair.  Options like investing the $100 dyson repair cost into a new vacuum dyson or other with a 5-6-7 year product warranty has to factor into the decision making process.  No warranty with the dyson repair.

WRT my 4 year old ORECK XL Classic [this month makes 4 years] belts and bags have been the only expense.  Cost me $150 new, belts are $2 each and are do-it-yourself.  I change every 5-6 months.  Takes less than a minute.  Bags are $1.50 each.  I change every 2 months.  Brush roll is still like brand new.  At this rate, I'll have it 10 years before it may need replacement and it costs now $30 and it's a do-it-yourself repair.   Not the same as a dyson DC 07 repair on a 7 year old dyson for $100. 

Carmine D.

In the USA Vacmanuk, the only model DC07 is [was] the clutch.  For a very short period of time, Wal*Mart sold a non-clutch model for about $320 as an exclusive model.  A brush roll and belt replacement would have been a $50 do-it-yourself job.  Worth the repair money in my opinion.  Dyson discontinued. 

In the final analysis, a repair decision is a personal and individual one. 

Carmine D.

I see you flunked math. 

Carmine D.

Let me switch gears, no pun intended.  One of the clothes driers my wife and I had in one of our homes was a new SEARS Kenmore.  It was a no frills model that cost $250 in the 70's.  After 5 years, it stopped drying clothes.  I did some detective work and determined that it was the heating element.  My wife called and a repairmen from SEARS/independent appliance tech both wanted $100 for the in-home repair.  I bought the element for $19 OTC from a local parts store and installed myself.  A few more years later, the belt that drove the drum broke.  Tub wouldn't spin.  Again repairmen wanted $100 to fix ion the home.  I bought the belt for $8 and installed myself.  Over the years, the element continued to fail.  Poor design and placement.  Next time it was $39 to buy OTC.  Next time $59.  After 22 years, the element was a special order part andf the local appliance parts store was out of business.  Cost was over $100 to buy.  I chucked it, as you say, and replaced with a new drier for $400.

Carmine D.

And I was being gracious with you HARDSELL when I said you just flunked math!

Carmine D.

See there you go again making assumptions.  Local county and HOA ordinances prohibited clothes lines.

Carmine D.

Dyson also increased the retail prices of the successor root vacuums AND increased the filter maintenance times from 6-9 months on the dual to 2-3 months on the root.  What a pain and bother for users.  Almost as bad as Rainbows but not quite.

Carmine D.

Understandable.  Who would want to see Carmine's long handles blowing in the wind?

Me for one HARDSELL.  Nothing like the look, smell and feel of late fall/early winter air dried long johns.

Carmine D.