Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

A famous German Vacuum soon to be available at your local Oreck Dealer.....Hummm.

Lucky1 wrote:

Hi Lucky1,

After, checking out the website, it appears that the Philips-cloned Dutch Tech canisters aren't on the roster any longer.  I'm probably wrong but would the Oreck Quest Pro be it?  It looks like Bosch for all the world save for the power nozzle which does not resemble any of the Wessel Werks PN's used in past.  Most interesting is that this 120 volt machine boasts a 1500 watt power draw.

http://www.oreck.com/Oreck-Quest-Pro-Canister-Vacuum

Best,

Venson

Re-softened up and with a slight change to the controls, the vac on the left hand side is the Dirt Devil (German country) model Allegra. Hoover's Windtunnel bagged canister is also modelled on that - and I think we covered this before. What gives the Oreck away is that the grid vents are identical as is the park stand on the bottom below the controls. The Black model is the Swan bagged cylinder SC3010. SWAN are a catalogue brand in the UK, and they've usually used Electrolux models that aren't always available in the UK, which you guys have under the Eureka tag. HOWEVER, it seems Swan also have a few Dirt Devil TTI cylinders on the go for 2011. You can zoom in to see the Swan at: http://www.littlewoods.com/swan-bagged-cylinder-sc3010/707034865.prd?browseToken=%2fb%2f4623%2c5727%2fs%2fbestsellers%2c0%2fo%2f2&trail=4739-4623-5727&prdToken=/p/prod6765392-sku11011091

Spec: 2200w. 4 litre dust capacity. Anti allergy exhaust filter. Bagged. LED display for speed adjustment. Tools in storage. Turbo brush. High efficiency with low noise. Weight 7.6kg. Obviously the weight on the Oreck may be higher with the powered brush.

You are all on to some imminent breaking ORECK news.  Interesting information.  Have to stay tuned in here for the latest.

Thanks and keep the ORECK news alerts coming.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
THIS NEWS ALERT JUST IN.  DYSON, THE MOST ENVIED AND COPIED VACUUM NOW HAS A SECOND VAC COMPANY RUNNING FOR COVER.  MOST WILL RECALL HOW DYSON FORCED HOOVER TO COLLAPSE.  THEY ARE NOW HOVERING OVER ORECK.  ORECK IS A WANNABE VACUUM MANUFACTURER THAT SELLS ITS ELECTRIC BROOMS TO THE GULLIBLE THAT FALL FOR THEIR PROPOGANDA.

IN AN ATTEMPT TO STAY AFLOAT (UNLIKE HOOVER) ORECK HAS RESORTED TO BUYING OR COPYING DESIGNS OF THE MORE SUCCESSFUL MANUFACTURERS.  GOOD OLD DYSON REINVESTS IN PRODUCTS AND EMPLOYEES RATHER THAN HOARDING THE PROFITS AS ORECK DOES.

STAY TUNED FOR MORE AS ORECK IS WASHED OUT WITH THE TIDE.  

HARDSELL wrote:

Looks and sounds like ORECK is partnering with other vacuum brands, worldwide, and models to supplement its floorcare line up both bagged and bagless units, carpet and steam cleaners, floor cleaning and waxing orbiters, and from their claims, the most popular selling air purifiers in the USA.

Once again I ask you, and anxiously look forward to hearing, what dyson has launched lately by reinvesting in products and employees?

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:
Where are you getting all this info from? Good old Dyson used Panasonic motors in the beginning!

vacmanuk wrote:

Hello Vacmanuk:

Well after the beginning.  DC17 which dyson launched in Feb 2007 used the cheapest panasonic one fan motor ever made.  An industry staple since the 1970's at the time dyson coopted it for its own use.  That was 5 years after dyson launched in the USA.  DC17 Absolute Animal, its top of the line at the time, had an MSRP of $549.  

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Sorry Carmine, I was responding to Hardsell's news about Oreck but I realise now this member is spouting rubbish. As ** IF ** Dyson were so kind to their employees - I'm not too sure UK Dyson employees took too kindly when Dyson shifted their customer response unit to other countries. My neighbour's son is a classic example. Worked for Dyson for about 8 years, went to engineer and design R&D dept and within less than a year was told that his job and others were being shifted to Asia. Oh yes, Hardsell, Dyson are so original and customary to their workers - NOT!

vacmanuk wrote:

Hi vacmanuk:

Interesting...add too what you and UK residents alreay know but some still don't comprehend here in the USA:  dyson shifted the UK dyson production to malaysia in 2000 and uses contractor people in the location to build them.  Double whammy for UK and its residents.  ORECK has stayed in the USA employing Americans with its manufacture of lightweight uprights.  Much to the credit of Dave, his family, and ORECK.

Any news about ORECK rolling out any models in any UK retailers??  Yet??

Carmine D.

vacmanuk wrote:
What is the problem with the Panasonic motor that Dyson used?  Oreck has far more motor failures.  Hey! Carmine is the one who claims that Dyson employs hundreds of engineers.  Could he be exagerating...............AGAIN?

HARDSELL wrote:

The motor costs $50 wholesale and is used in Pano's least expensive big box store models some selling for as little as $70.  Dyson used the motor in its top of the line models selling for $550. 

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

Not quite correct with your information as usual.  This is excerpted from the dyson web site:

Research, design and development

New ideas are the lifeblood of Dyson. Every year, we invest our profits back into harnessing them at our research and development laboratory in Wiltshire, UK. There are 350 engineers and scientists based there. Thinking, testing, breaking, questioning.

Again I ask you as I have many times in the past and anxiously await your response: What new products has dyson launched lately with their 350 scientists and engineers?

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
A $50 motor costs more than all the parts of an Oreck.  The Oreck sells for $800. 

CarmineD wrote:
Actually you have added nothing to show that I was wrong.  You have harped for years about the # of Dyson engineers.  Doesn't matter where your excerpt is from it has not been here until now.

I have not responded to a useless question.  Dyson has produced more in the last 5 or 6 years than Oreck has since its inception.  What does Oreck sell that they did not copy or buy due to incompetent engineers?

HARDSELL wrote:

A $50 Pano motor that's 40 years old in the industry in a $550 TOL dyson vacuum is profiteering and engineer ennui.

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

Once again not correct [as usual].  The claim of 500 engineers was a written and oral promotional claim made by dyson and Sir James when the company launched in the USA.  Dyson has culled the number and tried to keep the claim unspoken/unwritten [quiet] lately as dyson products have trickled out, been discontinued over the last 5-6 years, suffer from major defects, or just plain disappointed its users after they plunked down huge amounts of money. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
How much does the motor in an Oreck, Hoover or similar vac cost?  I suspect the luxury vacs such as Miele have an inexpensive motor also.  They just sell the parts at high prices to make buyers think they are getting higher quality.

Did you mention that the $800 Oreck uses a very inexpensive motor.  Not to mention all the problems with the brush rolls and belts on their $800 vacs.

HARDSELL wrote:

Uprights: ORECK Edge, Pilot, and Element just to name a few.  All from ORECK and made in the USA.

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

And think you bought a HOOVER Platinum bagged lightweight Power Team for $599 from BEST BUY that is made and sold as a direct copy of ORECK.  And boast about it here.  I luv it!

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
My point is that you are the one who first mentioned the 500 engineers and have done so at each opportunity.  If they do not exist you should cease the talk.

So what if they have reduced the work force.  Who hasn't with this economy.  I think Oreck never had engineers.  As I said, the money goes to those named Oreck.

I find more Dysons in local stores and when I travel than I do other brands.  Speaking of success.  Oreck was successful at getting Costco to take all those over stocks off their hands.  Next they got in Target.  Business is so good they can't seem to sell in those rip off Oreck centers.

HARDSELL wrote:

Dyson said and printed it first as promotion to boast.  Not me.  As dyson products have disappointed users, been discontinued, come up short with defects and flaws, pulled off shelves and from the market, dyson and you have taken umbrage as others like me remind you of the boastful dyson claims.

I suspect ORECK products will soon be sold in more than just COSTCO and TARGET stores too. 

The 550 network of Clean Home ORECK Centers are a plus for ORECK products going retail.  Too bad Sir James didn't follow the ORECK business model when it comes to its product parts and service.    Must stick in Sir James craw just as it does yours.

Carmine D.

Check out the scores of Which 2011 survey report - DYSON IS AT THE BOTTOM. SEBO at the top and ORECK second in the upright vacuum category!!

Regarding the 500 engineers, I was wondering if that referred to the repair techs.  Over the pond, do they refer to the guys/girls who fix Dysons as engineers?  I'm not sure the term is used the same in the US and UK? 

Severus wrote:

Hello Severus:

Scrolling up you can read an excerpt from the USA web site about the mission and motives of dyson's engineers and scientists.  Below in response to your question, I excerpted this verbage from the dyson UK web site: It reads exactly the same as the USA dyson site:

Research, design and development

New ideas are the lifeblood of Dyson. Every year, we invest half our profits back into harnessing them at our research and development laboratory in Wiltshire. There are 350 engineers and scientists based there. Thinking, testing, breaking, questioning.

Carmine D.

vacmanuk wrote:

Hi vacmanuk:

ORECK is in very good company.  Thanks for the info.  Very interesting.  Nice to see and hear that American made vacuums are holding their own with German made SEBO amd MIELE brands. 

In contrast, when you relocate to a foreign country to save 30 percent in labor costs then outsource to contractors, it's not surprising that quality tanks [no pun intended]. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
As usual you present what yu want others to think and not the truth.  I paid less than $300 at WM. 

I also brought an Oreck home from target for comparison.  I RETURNED THE ORECK.

Hoover may have copied the style but they far exceeded the Oreck performance.

LUV it too.

vacmanuk wrote:
"Dyson matches SEBO for average test score "

Where did Oreck score in use testing?  I am sure it was somewhere with the hand broom.  Since Oreck only had 3% as many reliability respondants I wonder how it would fare if it had a realistic user audience.  If they counted premature belt or brush roll failure Oreck would certainly be near the bottom.  Then again many users are embarrased to admit that they bought a failure and do not respond.

Most would prefer to drive a Mercedes, Lexus or BMW than a F-150 or Silverado.  However, the luxury rides would be pith poor performers at hauling and pulling.  Same with a vacuum.  The Oreck will not get the job done if you want deep clean carpet even though it may be a smooth push pull machine.

HARDSELL wrote:

Excellent.  Glad to hear you found new HOOVER products worthy and paid a decent price.  The HOOVER combo is worth about $250 [just like ORECK].  Glad you like these HOOVER products after bad mouthing HOOVER for so long here and saying dyson sunk it.  Apparently if you're buying HOOVER's latest ORECK copy offerings, HOOVER is still alive an doing well.

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

Dysom bottom at the ratings for reliability.  Despite 350 scientists and engineers working tirelessly to question, test, break down and rebuild.  Maybe Severus is right.  Engineers have a different meaning in dyson terms than we have here in ther USA.

ORECK rated in the tier with German made vacuums.  Way to go for USA made vacuums products from ORECK.

By the way, ORECK air purifiers are the best selling the USA.  Must be good old American engineering at work again. 

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

Not you.  You purchased 2 new ORECKS and proudly admit it and telling us on every occasion.  Apparently buying ORECK's in 2's runs in your family.   

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:
Clearly you haven't read the post - ORECK scored better than Dyson with their uprights. Which collect findings from owners and repair bills collected from private and franchise repairers. There is no info on the hand vacuums or SEBO's cylinder vacuums simply because they don't sell as many. Besides, the UK don't get the recent machines that Oreck U.S have. Also Which have found Oreck uprights to be excellent at DEEP CARPET CLEANING - better than the hopeless plastic brush rolls of the Dyson.

Please don't start quoting cars again - the moderator on here has already warned members using cars as a comparison - you can't compare a vehicle with a vacuum cleaner = period.

Interestingly enough Hardsell, the cars that you all quote have terrible fuel consumption - especially the American ones over BMW & Mercesdes, who are at least doing something about energy efficient cars. I can't see an electric F-150 - can you?

vacmanuk wrote:

I read the post and posted my sentence from it.  Where in your excerpt does it say that Oreck scored over Dyson in testing ( I have to assume this is vacuuming useage). 

Luxury doesn't come cheap.  It will be a long time before electric cars have any real value IMO.

vacmanuk wrote:

Does sound more made up than scientific.  CR must have assisted.

HARDSELL wrote:

Clearly you haven't read the post - the WHICH UK Survey rates RELIABILITY citing SEBO and Oreck as the top two in the upright catgory. Dyson is at the lower end of the table - so reliability is therefore isn't as good. They're not in a different position where their canister/cylindedrs are concerned either. CR would have NOTHING TO DO WITH THE UK either. They don't even test the models you have in the U.S - we have comparatively similar models, but not always the same. Cue the DC17 by Dyson, of which member DC18 informed Carmine that this is a U.S only model and vice versa in the UK, other models we have and you don't.

Same with Oreck = the models you have in the U.S/Canada is substantially better than what is offered in the U.K and the costs are a lot more. Similarly Miele models in the U.K are far cheaper (and the cost parts) than U.S charges. Blame the economy, not the luxury value.

The reliability data would be made up by actual reliability; amount of repairs (or in some cases very little), amount of problems and the kinds of problems would be data specific and geared to this statistic making up the survey. Performance is also factored into the survey.

WRT vehicles, a topic that a poster here has a penchant for, I trust the Moderator will permit me a slight subject diversion.  As all know here a brand that the poster here also has a penchant for [warned he would buy his daughter the car despite the recalls], is the only one which suffered a loss in 2010 sales, while all other car makers had yearly gains.  Why?  Consumer Reports would say it was due to the enormous number of recalls by that brand in both 2009 and 2010, in the multi millions.  And now again in 2011.  In the car industry, makers have made it a joke.  A new year and new round of recalls by the brand.  More than any other car manufacturer and in some cases combination of brands.  So what is the supreme brand known for quality doing about it to get it's reputation back?  Answer:  Expect next week that toyota will make an announcement naming a high level official in Japan as, get this, The Safety and Engineer Czar.  Believe it or not.  Sounds like toyota's engineers are dyson flunkies.

Carmine D.

Carmine,

  Funny thing while I was going thru some of my sights I frequent to keep up with everybody. Oreck is best known for the XL , Pilot and Buster B. But I came to find out they have over 15 models more in their commercial line , not including the Orbiter, Steamer, or Air Purifiers. Dyson doesn't have anything like them.

                                                                                           Procare

                                         

procare wrote:

Hello Procare:

Dyson and its 350 "scientists and engineers" can only wish.  When it comes to wishing to be more like ORECK, dyson's wishing is on a grand scale.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Loss in sales and still #1 seller in 2010. I know you wannabe #1 but it ain't likely to happen.

HARDSELL wrote:

As usual you believe the makers' spin, not the truth. The increased buying incentives [the best offered in the industry in 2010] and lower prices [lowest from MSRP in the industry in 2010] were the reasons.  When will you ever learn?  Watch for the announcement next week No 1 in sales.  Safety Czar!  Your posts give me more laughs than  reading the funnies. 

Carmine D. 

CarmineD wrote:

You apparently have not price shopped in the last year.  MSRP was comparable with Honda and Nissan.  Others brands did have lower MSRP.  I do the research and not simply report my fantasy desire.  If you want to compare sources let me know.

HARDSELL wrote:

I'll spare you the public embarassment.  Why? As usual you don't read and/or comprehend my posts.  Your favorite car brand offered the largest discounts from MSRP IN ADDITION to the best buyer incentives in the car industry in 2010.  That's how it was No 1 in sales ion 2010 despite being the ONLY car brand that had lower year over year sales.  Doing research is a moot point if you can't/don't/won't connect the dots. 

You're hilarious.  You condemn ORECK at every chance for offering giveaways as buying incentives then praise your favorite car brand for being No 1 in sales for doing the exact same.  I luv it!

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

I believe the BMW had the deepest discounts in 2010.  Maybe $5000 to $10,000.  You recall the BMW.  You bragged about its quality because a family menber said so.  Remember when I directed you to its high repair records?

Now get up off your rump and look at all the discounts offered on cars comparable to the Toyota in 2010.  Honda (closest competitor) offered those discounts also.   Toyota was tested against 6 of its closest competitors by a most popular auto magazine in 2010 and beat em all.  Honda was 4th.

The competition should be thankful for Toyota's problems.  Otherwise, Toyota might shut them down the way Dyson did Hoover.

BTW,  who was the fool that owned multiple Pinto flamers?

There are forums for car buffs. I'm trying to imagine posts using vacuum cleaners likened to cars in those posts. Let's stay on topic, shall we?

Trebor wrote:

Hello Trebor:

I thought the same as you.  How's this:  What do dyson and toyota have in common?  The most number of recalls in their industry.  Or, what are the most popular features available on dyson and toyota products: Haven't been recalled.  

Carmine D.

Anyway.. back to ORECK. HOPEFULLY!!

Anyone bought one of these new canisters /Pro Quest yet?

vacmanuk wrote:

Hello Vacmanuk:

I plan to order next month when it becomes available at my local ORECK Clean Home Center.  I expect at this time to have to pay the full MSRP of $499 which doesn't bother me even if the price subsequently drops.

Carmine D.

No one has the answer yet?

Lucky1 wrote:

Hello Lucky1:

Not sure ORECK is the appropriate party to make such an announcement.  Maybe it's more appropriate for the company partnering with ORECK on this venture to make the announcement since it controls the details.  What do you think?

Carmine D.

I'm not sure if it's The Oreck company actually making a specific Public announcement... it's more of a backroom concession to the Dealers they have screwed in order to quell the rising ire. Going to be a lot of angry independents (...but who cares about them).

Lucky1 wrote:

Please clarify for me.  When you say "dealers" and "angry independents" are you referring to ORECK franchises or independents [as we use the term here who carry all makes and models] or both?  If you go back to my relpy number 21 here on this thread I made a statement about ORECK's 550 store network and their attractiveness for allowing ORECK to go "retail."  From a business perspective because of the ORECK model, my statement is spot on. 

Carmine D. 

Hint hint:

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/search_10153_12605?keyword=oreck&vName=Appliances

Is this it?

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

OK here's a hint...... it starts with an "M" and it ends with an "iele"

Lucky1 wrote:

Wow.  That's huge.  About as huge as SEARS picking up certain ORECK models for sale in its stores starting next month. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

FYI:  Only model available for $299 is the straight suction.  Model with P/N won't be available until end of month [March 30 and not sure that is a good ETA date].  MSRP $400  Quest is Pano made in China.  No word yet [from ORECK] on timing for MIELE made ORECK cann. 

Carmine D.

Yeah that looks like a panosonic head looks like a hoover s3670 canister for the quest. Miele Oreck combo was all the word at VDTA.

What a pity Oreck can't make their own canisters. I know they still have the black deluxe model - the blocky rectangular one where in the U.K if you don't buy the Deluxe model, you're compromised by having no wheels and thus have to buy an optional clip on set of wheels - in my mind Oreck are the ONLY company that have this in place. If Oreck went out on a limb and produced similar canisters to what they've made like the Philips Dutch series, they'd probably do well in Europe.

vacmanuk wrote:

The ORECK Ironman and Buster canisters and compact handhelds which dual with the lightweights are ORECK made.  The Ironman comes with wheels.   If I'm not mistaken, the latest HOOVERR/TTI compact cann with lightweight bagged up dual doesn't have wheels but glides/slides. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
How interesting. As you know we don't have U.S Hoover in the U.K - only Vax now that they're under the TTi ownership. Which model are you referring to, Carmine? Any pics of this compact canister "bagged up dual" (whatever that means!)..?

Ah Carmine, I'm referring to canisters that are akin to Miele/Hoover. Not the kind that you purposefully carry.

vacmanuk wrote:

Well Vacmanuk, HOOVER refers to this model as a portable canister.   ......And ORECK calls its models like this either compact canisters and/or handhelds.  Both are used interchangeably.  It's not my terminology, but theirs and standard for the industry in the USA for the last 50 plus years.  I use what the makers/industry use and say they are. 

My feeling is wheels on such small and lightweight compact/portable canisters would make them unruly on stairwells and steps.  Both the HOOVER and ORECK, after which HOOVER copied, have shoulder straps for these compact/portable canisters.  At 5-7 pounds typically, they are made to easily glide/slide and/or be used over the shoulder and/or sit sideways on the steps.  Wheels would add unnecessary weight and defeat the purposes for which they are designed and function.  IMHO

Carmine D.

PS:  When I say HOOVER copied ORECK I refer to the lightweight with compact canister sold as dual team vacuums.  Clearly this combo is an ORECK marketing strategy that HOOVER/TTI copied.  HOOVER for many years was absent from the lightweight upright vacuum market chosing instead to source its solo sold 8 pound Ultra lightweight upright vacuum to RICCAR/Simplicity under the HOOVER brand name. 

An aside on the commentary about ORECK and full sized canns.  Not really the ORECK venue.  Lightweight uprights and compact canisters are ORECK's claim to fame.  Recall MIELE didn't make and market its own uprights for over 75 years.  ORECK just as soon not produce full size canisters for USA consumption let alone Euro market which is flooded with canisters.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Are you kidding?  Where are you getting your info?  I am sure you just run down to the nearest ORECK center and ask.  Just because they work there, does not mean they know.  I happen to know who makes this new vacuum cleaner.  ORECK sources alot of their models from different sources(not including XL & BB).

Mike_W wrote:

As I recall there was a discussion that the Quest was BOSCH made.  I added my info that it is Pano made.  If you know, then post it. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Well you see Carmine, in the UK and Europe we don't use the term canisters unless its the old fashioned round tub types U.S refers to as "Shop Vac." Even the Rainbow in the UK would come under "tank" or "canister" due to its rounded shape. In this respect, whoever copied who (and how long has the Oreck canister been out actually? The Hoover Portapower from the U.S was available in the U.K in the 1980's. )

On the basis that Miele, SEBO and Bosch all use castors which are deemed lightweight, it wouldn't add that much weight to add three wheels recessed into the base, particularly when you consider the lighter PVC plastic components around these days.

vacmanuk wrote:

O'Really?

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

O'Really?

Carmine D.
Yes really Carmine. I use the word canisters so that you guys can understand what Im talking about. The word 'cylinder" seems to confuse some people.

vacmanuk wrote:

Like hoovering your rugs?  And you say that we guys [USA] don't understand?    O'Really? 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Didn't I ask you a question?  You are skirting around it.  I did not ask for details of threads.  One person said that it looked like a Bosch.  Vacmanuk said that he has seen it before as a Swan.  He also said that he has seen other vacuum cleaners that we know as Eureka, in the US.  So that is where you say panasonic made vacuum cleaners for Eureka also.  You see,  you take info, comments, etc. from someone else and make it your.  You even put your own twist on it.   

I will post in do time.  The answer will come out and the thread will still be here.  It does not even have to be me.  I brought it to the light. 

Curiosity has got the best of me.  What about the ORECK makes it a Panasonic?  Is it the hose, cord, power nozzle?  I sure would like to know.

CarmineD wrote:
HOOVER did have some models w/ wheels that did fine on stairs.  HOOVER, Eureka, GE, etc. had straps, so that it could be carried over the shoulder.   

It would be a bad idea to "glide/slide" these small machines around. The older ORECKs,Eurekas,GE's, Premiers had hoses that would come out.  The new HOOVER is not made to pull around, because the hose is not made to withstand it.

The word "copied" is used too often on this site.  If copying were so true, then everyone copied the first electric vacuum cleaner.    ORECK chose to market their two vacuum cleaners as "buy the upright, get the compact vacuum free".  HOOVER markets theirs by saying "purchase the upright and the small vacuum cleaner".  You see there is a difference.  HOOVER  is upfront about it.

Pairing the two vacuums together is good marketing.  If the upright is sold alone today, there will be those who complain about not being able to do above-the-floor cleaning.  They would have a negative attitude about the upright.  If the upright is paired, so they could clean more surfaces, they will be happier.  Their attitude/feelings towards the brand will be positive. 

Have you heard of "the perfect pair"?  No, this is not from ORECK.  It was from decades before David Oreck started his company.  This ad phrase is from General Electric's Tidy vacuum cleaner.  It had a strap, so the user could carry it over the shoulder.  This vacuum was paired w/GE's upright vacuum cleaner, so the house could be cleaned from top to bottom.

Mike_W wrote:

I remember the GE Tidy Vac well.  Repaired and sold many.  Even some of the later GE models like it.  Thank you for asking.

Carmine D.

Mike_W wrote:

Mike W:  You just don't get it, do you.  Let me take another tact.  Whoever makes the Quest, if the company is in China as many of the sourced makers are including the maker of Quest, it's not worth $499 even with the ORECK name and network of 500 stores to back it up.  [My bad, I said $400 in my post].  For that much $ it should be USA and or German made.  Hope you get my point now.  If not ask nicely and I'll answer your questions.  

Carmine D.

vacmanuk wrote:

Hello Vacmanuk:

I have the precursor to the Hoover portapower called the Swingette.  Late 60's made.  No wheels.  Like the ORECK.  Some did come with wheels and some with wheels extra.  I preferred no wheels.  Matter of choice and preference depedning on your needs and uses.  Still works like a charm after all these years.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Yes Carmine, but you made a statement previously that Hoover copied Oreck. So timewise, when the Oreck canister appear? Isn't a case of being the other way around that Oreck brought out their portable canister after Hoover?

vacmanuk wrote:

If you read my post Vacmanuk, I said HOOVER copied the marketing strategy of a lightweight upright and compact canister as a dual cleaning team from ORECK.  If you want to focus on who made the compact canister/handheld first, I would say HOOVER since it is much older than ORECK.  Long before there was an ORECK company, HOOVER made a handheld/handcleaner called a Pixie with shoulder strap and attachments.  But that was not my point and if you gleaned that you should go back and reread.  I was referring to ORECK's marketing strategy on the dual team vacuums, not who made what first.

What started this tangent is that you said ORECK is the only maker that does not have wheels.  I said the HOOVER doesn't.  Posted a pic for you when you asked.  Mike W. gave another from over 5 decades ago that did not have wheels.  GE Tidy Vac.  Came with shoulder strap and attachments.  Slightly irrelevant since the age makes it obsolete at this point.  The current HOOVER compact [with lightweight up] is relevant to your statement. And HOOVER mimics [copies if you will] the ORECK company by not offering wheels on the sidekick cleaner.  You said you don't have those in the UK.  But later posted you had/familiar with the HOOVER portapower in the UK in the 1980's which for all intents and purposes is the same cleaner as this current HOOVER which I posted and pictured for you.  Just like the ORECK with no wheels.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
You can use this little routine of trying to make it look like someone is just not "getting it" all you want.  People see right through it, because you do it all the time.  I could stand on my head and you still would not answer.  That is okay, because you already gave answers to the forum.

Here is another contradiction. 
CarmineD wrote:
A $499 ORECK  is not worth it, if it is made in China, but you plan on purchasing it before you even take it for a test drive?  You will be so happy w/it, that you will not mind if the price drops after your purchase.

CarmineD wrote: Oh, it is very relevant to this discussion.  You remember the phrase I always mention.  You have quoted me many times.  "What is old is new again!"  I mentioned, in an earlier post that GE already used this type of marketing to sell their upright and portable-Tidy.  ORECK later markets their upright with their portable as "purchase upright and get the portable vac for free".  HOOVER comes along and markets it w/o the "FREE". 

You cannot go around and say things are copied.  There are only a finite number of ways to produce/market.  We cannot go around and say one vacuum cleaner copied another, because they are selling door-to-door like the previous company.  One company has a vacuum cleaner line, then another company comes out w/their line that looks similar.  They have made slight changes though.  There are times that these changes actually benefit the user.

A company designs a vacuum cleaner w/a swiveling hose-copied.  A company puts a hose on the front-copied  There are/were many uprights w/bags on the back, many w/ bags on the side, and many w/bags mounted in front. 

There have been products, since the beginning, that look similar.   Like I have said many years ago, this works out for the purchaser.  As long as you know there is a difference between the machines, a person could be fine w/it.  

Mike_W wrote:

As usual Mike W. you jump to conclusions that are flat out wrong.  I posted that I would order/buy when I was under the assumption it would be German made [as in BOSCH/MIELE] and at $499 to me is worth the $.  When I learned its true country of origin [China], I declined to order.  But I said I would be back to scope it out on arrival. Remember it is due in March 30.  With luck I was told.

Carmine D.

Mike_W wrote:

If you want to go way back in vacuum history, HOOVER in the late 20's/early 30's [? little fizzy on the exact years] offered the model 425 upright with dustette handvacuum as side kick for a pair. 

I also said that the MSRP of $499 for the HOOVER pair was too expensive anmd not worth the $.  Why?  Made in China.  I said the price for the pair should be $250.  Last time I checked, the HOOVER duo is selling for that price by most retailers. 

Carmine D.

PS:  Just to remind, I bought 4 XL Classics at different times directly from ORECK w/o the compact canister.  Just the upright.  For $150-$199.  ORECK stores also offer just the XL uprights on special sale days throughout the year for similar prices as these or slightly higher depending on the length of warranty.  The 4 XL's I purchased new came with one year warranty.  BTW all still working well for their users.  Long past the warranty.  Mine turns 4 years next month.

CarmineD wrote:
So, you see, you used your own words to prove yourself wrong.  ORECK was not the first to think about it.  It did not matter to me which company, as long as it proved my point.  And  you helped.

Mike_W wrote:

Yeah right.  Why didn't you think of it first instead of the GE Tidy vac.  Same old same old from you.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

I just happened to pick up the April 16, 2011 of People Magazine and noticed on page 138 in the magazine an ad for the ORECK XL Insight lightweight upright now at SEARS.  Looks like it's true.  ORECK is going retail.

Carmine D.