Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Here's the details of a trademark that Dyson has filed for a to-be-launched project, the 'Digital Slim':-

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/types/tm/t-os/t-find/t-find-number?detailsrequested=C&trademark=2552353

As usual, the trademark covers a multitude of product categories. Personally, I'd reckon the most likely candidate is a 'slim' upright vacuum, with a 'digital' motor. Dyson have used the 'slim' name before - on the DC18. The upright range has long been missing a product with digital motor. I would also be good if by slim, they mean as thin in profile as the DC03 - which could be hung on the wall and take up next to no space inside a storeage cupboard:-

The major downside was it's small, weedy motor. But if replaced with a similar model using a digital motor, it wouldn't have that same issue.

Venson wrote:
Ah, so the rationale is that a relatively low-powered, cordless vacuum won’t always have enough suction on carpet to remove all surface debris and thus requires a brushbar. I’d imagine if carefully calibrated, the effectiveness of this could fall between dislodging for surface pick up and not the carpet pile itself.

I remember that James Dyson said once (about the DC16 handheld) that they were surprised to learn that a proportion of people were using the cleaner for general maintenance cleaning about the house. It appears, to better fit this use, they’ve increased the run time (with the DC31) and now, fitted a powered head, on a wand, with steerable wheels. It might well only satisfy a niche in the market, but as said, the investment in product development appears modest.

M00seUK wrote:
I'd say the rationale is offering buyers something better than a mechanical sweeper and that effectively is what the cordless dust busters with a stick and a moving brush roll are trying to emulate here. The next big step is to develop something Karcher already tried years ago; develop a wet brush model that picks up dirt or water on floors. I like the versatility that the brands are offering with so many different attachments to extend cleaning cycles with a dust buster on the hand - but it isnt exactly new - its just moving the game on a bit. The Americans reversed the design theory offering a hand held with a permanent brush roll and mains cord with extendable pipes and other attachments in the form of the Dirt Devil handy but one could argue it's mains powered only and restricts a "clean-anywhere" approach without a plug socket. Black and Decker know more about any other brand with wet pick up dust busters and could develop their interest further.

It's been proven that battery run times for these cleaning products diminishes when a revolving brush meets resistance from carpeting vice straight barefloor cleaning.  It would be interesting for a consumer, since dyson won't, to test the DC35 run times for both cleaning situations.  First in the barefloor cleaning mode.  Then in the carpet cleaning mode.  Measuring DC35 run times and noting the time differential. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Always good to have the numbers for evaluation purposes. Here are the runtime figures from Dyson for the DC35:-

• 15 minutes on high power (28 aw - constant)

• 13 minutes when using the motorised brushbar (1,400 RPM)

• 6 minutes when using max power mode (65 aw - constant)

That all sounds reasonable for the small to mid-sized house this type of cleaner would be marketed towards.

M00seUK wrote:
Excellent performance but how is it judged? Picking little dirt up on hard floors or a lot? Surely if a carpet has a lot of surface dirt, then performance may struggle. Its all very well if its mains powered but since its cordless is there a secondary motor that is independently running the brush bar? Otherwise if its picking up a lot of dirt, then surely the power is going to run down by the amount of dirt the brush bar has to cope with picking up?

M00seUK wrote:

These numbers give only a partial time differential.  This provides the diminished battery run time with the brush roll engaged with 28 AW of power.  Loss of 2 minutes.  The missing piece of information is the battery run time with 65 AW and the brush roll engaged.   At a minimal, one would believe 2 minutes lost.  This leaves a run time of 4 minutes.  Since brush roll usage on carpet surfaces cause increased resistance to the motor operation, 65 AW would be a normal mode.  At 4 minutes of usage, and the price of the product, users would have to be emotionally tied to DC35 to discount the drawbacks in short run time. 

Carmine D. 

CarmineD wrote:

Hello Carmine, I cannot directly answer all your queries as I'm simply reporting the information as presented. Going by the documentation for the similar Dyson handhelds, it suggests the max power mode of 65 air watts is only for occasional use, as needed. I don't even know if the auxiliary power for the brushbar is enabled in max power mode?

The charts below appear to illustrate that even at the lower setting of 28 air watts, the overall performance of the Dyson is more than competitive compared to the other lightweight, cordless vacs on the market.

M00seUK wrote:

Kudos for trying M00seUK.  It's safe to say that dyson produces a powerful hand held.  The issue with its handhelds [from DC16 up thru DC35] has always been run time by the batteries especially now under stress.  This motor run time comes more into question with a revolving brush roll due to the resistance caused by carpet cleaning.  The latter is the point I'm making and I think Vacmanuk too for DC35 slim whatever it is. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Agreed - It's also a point that we'll be able to better clarify based on inital user testing / reviews.

M00seUK wrote:

Yes, agree which is the bases [at least for DC16, DC30, and DC31] for my concern on the meager run times for these dyson hand helds.  DC35 stats just give the full picture for run time at 28 AW with brush roll.  At first glance from dyson stats, it looks like DC35 increases run time at low speed over DC30 and DC31 to 15 minutes from 10.  Impressive?  BUT wait, actually dyson reduces the AW rating on DC35 at low speed from 38 AW in DC30/31 to 28 AW in DC35.  What will this AW reduction do to user perception of the powerful dyson handhelds [based on previous DC30 and DC31]?  Diminish it?  Yes, obviously to me.  Making the high speed even more preferred on DC35 even required now especially with the brush roll since the standard AW at low speed is reduced.  So, 6 minutes at high speed becomes ...????  Don't know from dyson.  Dyson is mum on the issue.  Have to wait and see?  No.  The answer is crystal clear [at least to me]. 

What dyson has done, IMHO, is to gerry rig two seperate products [a hand held and revolving brush] into one supposedly unique product by using "spin" [like reducing AW to show increase run time at LO speed ONLY].  The reason, my opinion, is to market DC35 slim as a new and superior product performance wise over previous same brand and other models but not expressly saying so with all the relevant data.  Instead relying on customers to buy and use first to determine its effectiveness.  One would have to be emotionally tied to this new product/dyson brand to pay the high price and discount the proven drawbacks of the meager past dyson battery run times for its handhelds [the core component of the DC35 slim].  If dyson customers fall for the hype and hawking, mission accomplished.

Carmine D.