Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

We just had wool berber wall-to-wall carpeting installed in several rooms of our home. The manufacturer recommends a suction only vacuum, without a beater bar to "avoid excessive fuzzing."
First, is a beater bar and a brush roll the same thing on a vacuum?
And second what's my best bet for a vacuum? We have 700-square-feet of wool berber carpets, 600-square-feet of laminate and 200-square-feet of tile (including stairs) to vacuum. We own two boxers (dogs) that shed short hair and live in a dusty (agricultural) area.
At the recommendation of a local shop we tried out a Miele Titan (with 217 head) with the brush roll on (they're some of the softest brushes according to sales person). We used it for a while on a remnant of our carpet and I noticed what I think is some fuzzing so I worry that with extended use we will really wear into the carpet. Is there anything with some kind of brush roll or option other than straight suction to really get the dog hair up? Or something with enough suction not to worry about it?
The Miele seemed to do a very nice job but we're struggling for an accurate comparison point.

THANK YOU!!!

MBZimm wrote:

Let me answer your questions first:

Beater bar and brush rolls are not the same but frequently used in the vernacular as the same.  The former has metal and plastic bar strips that beat the carpet in addition to brush tufts that sweep the carpet.  The latter has just brush tufts.

There is no other option to pick up dog hair [on rugs] except a brush roll.  Straight suction alone will not suffice.  Have to have a vacuum with a revolving brush [upright and/or canister with a power head and revolving brush].

"Fuzzing" is a natural phenomenon of rugs expecially wool regardless of the vacuum: Straight suction and/or vacuum with brush roll.  It will occur over the first several months of vacuuming regardless of the vacuum type.

Finally, you have an excellent vacuum for the cleaning tasks:  MIELE Titan with the mid size power head and revolving brush.  Ideal.  Not to worry.  Enjoy all four: Wool berber carpets, the MIELE Titan for vacuuming, and the two boxers.  All can live in perfect harmony in the same household.

Carmine D.

Hi Carmine,

   Thank you for your thoughts. We knew fuzzing will be an issue with any rug/carpet and actually like the look/feel but didn't want to encourage wear on the carpet with the vacuum. For great suction power and softest brush roll it sounds like we're on the right track with the mid-size head on a Miele. Any other options that might be better or come close? Spending this much I want to make sure I know what I'm getting is the best for the job.
The shop also has a silver Miele (forget the model) that was discontinued recently (shop guys says because they changed colors basicaly) but it keeps the tools inside (instead of on the hose port), has the slightly larger GN filters and the hose swivels at the handle (which is nice) but even at a small discount it's $150 more. Same head as the Titan. Any worries going with a recently discontinued Miele if for all intents and purposes it's the same vacuum as some of their current offerings?

MBZimm wrote:

Probably the Capricorn.  Excellent choice too.  Not to worry about the discontinuing model.  MIELE supports its products with parts and services forever.  Immer Besser.

Carmine D.

 

Might I add . . .

Berber's big problem is due to its being an uncut  carpet composed of relatively large loops. Revolving brushrolls whacking at the fibers that  these loops are made up of can, little by little, break the strands that compose the weave and and cause the"fuzzing" or "pilling" you mentioned.

My suggestion is this -- compromise.

Personally, I'd take the Miele and power nozzle but would also purchase an adapter to allow use of standard (generic) one-and-one-fourth-inch tools.  I'd then purchase an inexpensive straight-suction rug nozzle with a medium-firm brush strip (no serrations, no combs) from my dealer for a run over my Berber carpeting every couple of days or so and limit my use of the power nozzle to maybe once or twice a week. Miele makes a nice dual-purpose nozzle for rugs and bare floors but it costs around $75.00 and I think that's ridiculous.  (I actually bought one just to see what it was.)

If you do not have heavy trafffic on your carpet and doggy fur is you're major concern, straight suction may be fine though you may need to apply a little elbow grease here and there.  The power nozzle's purpose is to dislodge gritty dirt before too much of it sinks too far down in carpeting and does damage.  This requires vigorous action.  The heavier your traffic the more you should straight -suction  vacuum between uses of the power nozzle (also necessary) to maintain your Berber's original look.  Berber rugs are of a lucious design but suffer all the same problems all rugss do when grit and dirt become ensconced down at the backing of the carpet.  The better Miele power nozzle has several height adjustments. Set it only low enough to maintain steady contact with the carpet but no lower.

Venson

Well, I've been there with new Berber wall to wall carpets and the best thing I used for two years was a bagless upright vacuum. Not the most expensive model and something fairly basic like the Dirt Devil Dynammite mini upright. That model has a brush bar with plastic "beater" like bars. For the carpets it was superb as I was going through ONE sebo 5 litre dust bag per month plus dog hair. The beauty of bagless is that you can simply empty whenever the bin is needing to be emptied, no bags to waste and thus no money wasted.

I would definately recommend buying a cheap mini upright vacuum like the Dirt Devil first and also consider the Miele. It will be enough to get rid of pet hair alone and the fuzzing / top carpet surface fuzz. Also watch the electric brush on Miele. It may have a large floor head but the dust channel at the back can clog with fuzz, especially Berber type and that can be annoying to have to constantly clean it out.

Vacmanuk and Venson raise interesting points.  While your carpets are still new before shutting off the vacuum when you are finished cleaning, allow the vacuum to run for a minute or 2 with the nozzle/brush roll head off the carpet.  This will allow the "fuzz" and rug nap to be picked up and pulled all the way through the cleaning path into the bag.

Carmine D.

So, seems like Miele Titan at $550 is our best bet, over the discontinued Jubilee (silver model) at $750?

Is there anything as soft on berber that's cheaper??? I have little to no doubt either is a great vacuum but this is a lot for us to spend right now!

MBZimm wrote:

MIELE Jubilee S5281 discontinued:  Retails between $800-$900.  But generally comes standard with the SEB 217 too just like the Titan.  If you are on a budget, the MIELE Titan at $550 is the better value.  If not, the MIELE Jubilee for $750 is the best buy IMHO.

MBZimm wrote:
Get a mini bagless upright first and see how you fare! You can always hang onto it for emergencies or sell it on later. You'll be wasting bags with the carpet fluff you accomodate.

vacmanuk wrote:
Which mini bagless do you suggest? And although I'll go through more bags, won't I still spend less on bags than a mini vac and get the benefit of both surface and deep cleaning at the same time if I just decide which canister to go with?

MBZimm wrote:
You won't be deep cleaning when dealing with Berber in the first year, believe me! The first year your bags will contain more of the carpet fuzz than pet hair even though that's quite a trial having to deal with both. I don't own the type of dog you have - I have two Westies and the amount of pet hair plus the cat I have means one vacuum cleaner never suffices. You could buy any of the bagless types that are on the market, even a cheap Hoover upright - make sure its an upright though as pet hair and fuzz as I said before has a bad habit of clogging up electronic brush heads and Miele's electronic heads or air driven turbo brushes all have average to small dust channels which can clog with hair and carpet fluff. Deep cleaning only occurs once a carpet has settled, thus there's more of a chance getting to the fibres that need to be cleaned. This is why deep cleaning works when a carpet is washed for example - and that's another machine you may have to consider if you have pets and Berber in the long term! Dont go down the steam cleaner route. I tried that and have spent a fortune on steam cleaners - they just dont work very well on carpets unless you get a commercial grade machine and that can go into big money!

Since I'm not in the U.S I can't begin to wonder what mini bagless upright types there are but I have a feeling there are quite a few. I have used a few that are available in the U.K under U.S branding such as the Dirt Devil Vibe but the top filter on that vacuum is lousy and their better one (not sure if Dirt Devil U.S still sell it) is the Dynammite model. That is a fairly basic upright that has a twist release filter that can be messy but at least there is only ONE filter to deal with! Granted if you want clean disposal then consider other larger vacs on the market that take cheaper dust bags. Certainly from what Carmine and others have suggested a Miele would be your ideal solution but they're not cheap in the U.S and neither is the Sebo series (a brand I quite like).




http://www.hoover.com/product.aspx?model=UH70212&ds=false

Well, this one looks quite good and its fairly cheap at 159.99 dollars! It certainly sounds like it could be a good cheap alternative "in the meantime," vacuum. It may not be "mini" by dimension but it has quite a few features - anyone on here actually own this vacuum rather than rely on consumer testing?? It has brush stop action and apparently pet hair marketed tools. At the price, I'd say its not that bad = but its a pity we dont have them in the U.K Sadly the Hoover models we have in the U.K are rather old fashioned and are worlds away from the models you have in the U.S/Canada.

I'd definately recommend going bagless and down the cheap route FIRST. Just be gentle with the vac and it will take off the "top soil" fluff in the first year. Otherwise you'll be going through One or Two of the larger Miele dust bags per month which is definately not cost effective and the Miele you've chosen won't get a chance to do the job its supposed to do when you'll find yourself picking out bits of carpet fluff thanks to the smaller dust channels. Yes, whilst Miele vacuums are supposed to clean carpets efficiently, they are also built with engineering expertise (as with SEBO) that prolongs the life in your carpet.

vacmanuk wrote:

Excellent choice for the money.  HOOVER T series [2 models] bagless Windtunnel Rewind and Pet Rewind.  18 pounds.  $130-$160.  Caveat:  Recall on the cord rewind.  Rated a Consumer Reports Best Buy.

The HOOVER Web page gives an excellent description of features and pictures for this model and videos.  Sold by all the big box retailers.  With a manual rug height adjustment and brush roll shut off.  Allows use of straight suction and brush roll as needed.  If I recall correctly comes with a 2 year guaranty.  I'll check that and confirm.  That's true 2 years.

Carmine D.

The WindTunnel® Pet Rewind™ bagless upright helps you manage unruly pet hair and features an easy cord rewind, a folding handle for storage, 5 position carpet height adjustment, and the easy-to-clean Air-Powered Pet Hand Tool. There's no loss of suction* with Hoover® patented WindTunnel® technology that traps and channels dirt into the dirt cup** and minimizes scatter. It's everything you asked for and more!

• Only 17.8 pounds - light and easy to use with thorough cleaning power
• Easy-to-Clean Pet Attachments-rubber blades and rolling brushes
• Cord Rewind with 27-Foot Cord - no more winding?gently tap the pedal to activate the 27-Foot Cord Rewind and retract the cord to store neatly inside
• Intuitive Power Controls - conveniently positioned where they should be - right at your fingertips
• Folding Handle - makes storage a snap, ideal for small storage spaces
• Fabulous Filtration - Carbon Filter absorbs musty pet odors; also features a rinsable filter and high-quality HEPA filter
• 27-Foot Power Cord - vacuum a large room without re-plugging
• No Scuff Bumper - protects furniture when you can't be as careful as you'd like
• Headlight - illuminates dark corners & under furniture for thorough cleaning
• System Check Indicator - indicates when the filter needs to be cleaned or checked
• Suction Only Mode Pedal - press to easily transition from carpet to hard floors
• Easy Belt Change System & Brushroll Access - simply flip two levers to change the belt or access the brushroll
• 5 Position Carpet Height Adjustment - adjust as needed to clean all flooring types efficiently
• 8-Foot Stretch Hose - provides instant extended reach
• Limited 2-year warranty

Included Accessories:

• Air-Powered Pet Hand Tool - rubber blades collect hair and powerful suction carries it away, reducing need to clean blades
• 12-Inch Extension Wand - extends reach of the hose
• Crevice Tool - helps clean nooks and crannies
• Pet Upholstery Tool - rubber blades pull stubborn pet hair away from upholstery.

 See other WindTunnel T-Series™ uprights.

WindTunnel T- Series

*Per IEC 60312 4th Edition, Clause 2.9. Test results within accepted variability tolerance of 5%.

**On carpet, per ASTM F608

Oh My.. I didnt realise it was a best seller. I just went to Hoover.com and looked at a model that seemed good value for money. You guys are lucky. When I convert the price into UK pounds, that's about £101.04 and for that money you can't even buy a Dyson over here for that kind of cash! Infact the comparative model that even gets close to the Hoover I listed on here yesterday would be our "best selling brand," Vax (thanks to TTi and Hoover U.S Windtunnel) VZL-6013/AL upright which doesn't have half the features the Hoover has. You guys may well have seen it before under a Hoover Windtunnel deriative;

vacmanuk wrote:

Right on both accounts vacmanuk for this selection.  Consumer Reports rated the HOOVER T-Series bagless WT Rewind EQUAL to the $600 top of the line dyson DC28 with identical score of 67.  Most posters here agree DC28 is dyson's best upright to date.  Most posters here who are close followers of CR also opine that any upright vacuum with a CR score of 60 or better is a worthy performing vacuum product.

Carmine D.

So, MBZimm, let us know what you have bought!!

vacmanuk wrote:

Now let's not say about Vax (Vax USA)  Vax USA is NOT TTI; they're WORSE than anything TTI makes.  I'd rather have a Regina Housekeeper or a XXX Tandem Air anyday over Vax X5.

Eh News flash Hooverman - Vax U.S is owned by TTi. See the main profile page: http://www.vaxusa.com/

I have been in the cleaning industry for a while and not even from my own experience, I would recommend you considering a Dyson Ball vacuum since its brush roll can be turned off to protect carpets or any other sensitive surface.

Don't know firsthand from personal experience but I suspect the dyson ball models would be noisey on hard floors and ceramic tiles, especially on uneven surfaces.  I opine that constant use on these uneven ceramic floors would wear out the plastic ball surface in short order. 

Carmine D.

Ive worked in commercial cleaning places for a number of years (15+) and in all that time I've always used either SEBO bagged uprights (those BS 360s and the newer versions) or bagged cylinder vacuums like the British Numatic Henry. In both applications,you need a vacuum that can get under low furniture as well as bagging the dirt for cleanliness. When timing is against you and dirt pick up is essential brush roll on/off functions are notorious for breaking under undue pressure. PLUS, the ball doesn't go under low furniture because of its size. Dyson did have a commercial bagless upright model but it was based on the DC04 called Constant Max but had lower suction and a replaceable cord. Quite a rare model and under the "constant max" name.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LX10UoFo7j4

For those interested here are a few snippets from Which's latest vacuum cleaner tests (UK):

Dyson DC33 (new, basic upright - DC14 w/clutch, with improved DC27/28 cyclone pack and tools, and new lightweight ABS extension wand): 'This Best Buy upright vacuum cleaner from Dyson gives outstanding results on all types of flooring, and excels at removing stubborn pet hair. The filtration system is so effective that it locks virtually all of the dust and allergens away safely, so it's a great choice for those with allergies.'

Oreck XL3: '...it's mediocre on carpet, good on laminate, and poor on floorboards - where it fails to extract the dirt from the cracks.

It leaves a large rim or dust around the edge of the room as the suction only works underneath the head. This cleaner has a headlight at the front - perhaps so that you can see what you're missing.'

Vax Mach Zen: '...removes impressive amounts of dirt from floorboards, reaching deep into the crevices. It's also good on laminates and carpets, and the head gets close to the skirting to clean right up to the edges.
(TTi)

vacmanuk wrote:

Thanks VacmanUK on the Which? latest, especially DC33.  Consumer Reports has not tested yet, but appears that this "budget" model may finally make the CR hall of fame, rather than hall of shame.  Interestingly, most retailers in the USA are selling this latest and greatest dyson, which has an MSRP of $399, for 20-25 percent off MSRP at $289-$299.  For the first time in awhile perhaps a dyson worth the price.   

Carmine D. 

CarmineD wrote:

Also reinforces what I have said about Oreck for years.  $400 for a vac that will not remove dirt.  

HARDSELL wrote:
Doesnt really reinforce anything, HS. I'm already in dispute with Which having found quite a few errors in their test reviews where they are prepared to let mass produced European named products win "Best Buy," award seals where the Oreck's performance is poor. It isn't exactly black and white with this company!

vacmanuk wrote:

One of the features of note on the ORECK XL3 is a longer softer tuft of brush roll hair vice the traditional stiffer ORECK brush rolls.  Hence, I'm not surprised by the mediocre results claimed by Which? on carpets in concert with the lesser suction of a full sized upright vacuum.  The softer tufts work well on hard surfaces than on rugs.  It's a trade off [softer bristles] on rugs and edge cleaning vice the Classic ORECK's and stiffer brush roll hair.  Also, the XL3 is sold in concert with the ORECK compact canister for above the floor and edge cleaning.  Usually both at $299 or less [if you forgo the gifts provided for the in-home trial] on sale by most big box retailers in the USA who are now offering ORECK products.  And the traditional XL sells for $200 minus the compact canister.  Both sales venues, solo upright sales and big box retail sellers for ORECK products, are ORECK's latest marketing features to keep sales humming in the recession and the down USA housing market.

Carmine D.

In my opinion Dyson Models will work  for you. I know how frustrating it is to clean a wool carpet. Wool carpets are sensitive so be careful while you vacuum them.

i like rainbow vaccum cleaner.

Cleaning wool Berber carpets, laminate and tile is very tricky, anyone can't clean it simply. It is very trickier to clean this carpet, this carpets are made up of wool, so you have to give extra care while cleaning this carpet, you have to put extra precautions that will clean the wool demands, to clean this carpet make sure that buy a vacuum without beater bar, regular vacuuming is your best tool in keeping this tough. So use the best vacuum cleaner to clean to this carpet.

Brush rolls haven't had beater bars in a long time. It used to be that brush rolls had one or two rows of bristles and another row with a hard bar nearly as long as the bristles that literally beat the carpet as the brush roll turned. Great for bouncing dirt out of the nap and into the airflow where it was sucked into the vacuum. Nobody that I am aware of sells a modern vacuum with a beater bar brush roll but there are certainly plenty of older machines soldiering on out there with these old beater bar brush rolls hence the warning not to use them on your carpet. I'm not sure if considerations of carpet wear or the desire to sell quiet vacuums are what killed the beater bar. It certainly is an effective way to deep clean carpets but it was usually noisier than we are accustomed to today.

I don't know what your budget looks like, but I have the Shark Navigator Rotator at home and it works great. Costco (or Amazon) sells them for ~$200

Last year I ended up buying a Hoover Linx cordless stick vac and the Bissell Pet Hair Eraser hand vac, as I was so frustrated with our old Miele White Star. Both are decent for day-to-day touch-ups, but my Miele has now totally bitten the dust and I need to buy a new vac this week. As much as I'd prefer an upright vac, I use my hose and attachments all the time to vacuum my very textured adobe walls, furniture, crevices, lampshades, etc., etc. I've spent a lot of time this morning searching The Wirecutter and Get Cleaning Done. But, every time I check out the customer reviews there are always complaints that the rollers still get bound up with hair and have to be continually cut off. Or that the vacuums are falling apart! I found one that seemed to work well . . . as long as you got down on your hands and knees and used an attachment to get it up. I've been doing that for years with my Miele White Star and am so done with that! For a vacuum that expensive (back then it was close to $500), shame on them! Is there a vacuum out there that actually really works with pet hair on rugs and hardwood?????? I need recommendations and ones NOT to buy quickly, please. Help!

Mieles are over rated. Go to the nearest Sears and look at their Kenmore branded canister vacuums, specifically the 600 Series 81614, Elite 700 Series 81714 and Elite 800 Series 21814. The Elites are originally Panasonic designs and are the most powerful canister vacuums made. The 600 is a Cleva Industrial design. Test them against any Miele and I think you will be surprised at their basic excellence. Kenmore has almost always been about high airflow and the Elites in particular have massive airflow, more than even a Kirby. The Kirby sales guy was surprised to see my hard working Elite match the airflow of his brand new Sentria measuring them both at the hose end with his BAIRD meter. Then compare attachments, especially those on the 600 series with Miele's. The Kenny has traditional American sized attachments including an excellent horse hair dusting brush. Then look at the tiny little attachments Miele provides. Mieles dusting brush is especially frustrating as it has such a narrow cleaning path. The Kenmore dusting brush is wide. And where Miele gives you a cheap turbo hand brush that will bog on anything soft for lack of airflow, Kenmore gives you an outstanding electric motor driven Pet Powermate hand brush that almost never bogs. It out cleans any turbo tool. But if you are really determined to spend a bunch of money on a vacuum cleaner, look at Aerus Lux. Their Classic and Legacy canisters are made in the US and have been in production with very few minor changes since the late 1980s. Aerus Lux like Kenmore provides an outstanding electric motor driven hand brush called the Sidekick. These are top quality vacuums that will last decades given reasonable care. Reasonable care means using only cloth HEPA dust bags and changing the pre-motor and exhaust filters every sixth bag change. If there are big accumulations of dust in the bag chambers clean the bag chamber so the dust can't be sucked into the motor where it can clog and damage it. Suction air is what cools your vacuum motor. Anything that reduces airflow like clogged filters are dirt accumulating in the motor starves airflow and that will overheat and ruin a vacuum motor.

I have made an interesting discovery. Japan is canister vacuum heaven and their machines, though designed to run on Japan's 100 volt power (50Hz on the east side of Japan, 60Hz on the western side) work just fine on US 115 volt 60Hz house current. They can be purchased by US customers through eBay, Global Rakuten and Buyee.jp. The last two sites operate much like Amazon with multiple sellers offering products through the site. Buyee has an additional service where they will consolidate multiple purchases into a single shipment in one thick sturdy box with lots of "puchipuchi" (Japanese term for bubble wrap). You can use your US based credit or debit card or Paypal. Very clean and convenient. The Japanese market canister vacuums are cool looking and highly functional. They are also more powerful than the vacuums sold in the US. In the case of Hitachi a great deal more powerful. Their better canisters feature these interesting little power nozzles that work fabulous on soft carpets as well as on hard floors. Instead of a wooden or steel brush roll with stiff nylon bristles, they have mostly aluminum brush rolls with alternating rows of soft spongy material and soft bristles. Some even have three rows with the third row a strip of cloth. They weigh almost nothing, as light as some of the larger suction only hard floor nozzles. A few high end Japanese canisters have a setting that allows the brush roll to spin while the suction motor is off so you can wet scrub hard floors or shampoo a rug. After the shampoo dries you vacuum it up. Their hoses are lighter than anything you have experienced before, super flexible and don't kink. Most have their dusting brush built into the hose handle in a little flip out arrangement. Typical drawbacks of the Japanese vacuums are driven by their small size. Cords and hoses are short and the dust bags are small, but no smaller than a Miele FJM dust bag. You will also have to buy dust bags from Japan but those are available on eBay or Amazon and are still less costly than Miele bags. The Japanese vacuums and power nozzles are supremely quiet too. My recommendations are the Panasonic MC-PK21G or either of the Hitachi CV-PF300N or CV-PF300R (N for gold and R for red, otherwise identical). The Panasonic has 600 air watts (same motor used in the Kenmore Elite btw), compared to 510 air watts for the top of the line Aerus Guardian Platinum or 430 for the Aerus Legacy or Tristar CS series, all of which sell for in excess of $1700. The Hitachi has an astounding 680 air watts, which is more than most central vacuum motors can muster, and those motors pull a lot more than the 12 amp limit for household appliances. Hitachi has a tech paper on how they redesigned their motors to increase their efficiency through detailed fan design instead of just spinning things faster and using more power. A tad larger than the Panasonic and the dust bag is 1.7 liters vs barely 1 liter for the Panasonic. For soft carpets, area rugs and hard floors you would not go wrong buying either.

CountVacula, thanks for sharing your thoughts. You know what, I;ve tried dozens of vacuum cleaners, cause it's kinda my sphere of work, and I can say for sure that there is nothing better and more reliable in the vacuum cleaners world than model BISSELL Cleanview Swivel Pet 2252. You can look here a list, where also find this exact model. I can highly recommend it, especially if you have a lot of long hairs all around the house.

Bissell? I would buy a clean used Kenmore before spending the same amount for any new Bissell. I have a Bissell canister and power nozzle. It has much less power than any of the machines I mentioned. We have a 1982 vintage Kenmore we still use with more power than the Bissell. The Bissell brush roll is this twisted plastic thing that acts just like a loom collecting hair. Worse to me is that Bissell doesn't support their products. I cannot buy normal wear parts or filters for our Bissell canister. Interestingly Endust sells the HEPA filter for it in Canada but not in the US. I can also buy HEPA dust bags for it in Canada but not in the US. Though it has only been used less than a year the motor is showing signs of bearing wear (rumbling noise on coast down). Cheeeeep. I can get brush rolls (nice wooden ones), belts and replacement motors for the 1982 Kenny and none of these items are available for our near new Bissell. When the bearing noise gets louder I'll yank the motor and put a Panasonic motor in it, probably one used in the Kenmore Elite. Those make huge power and are durable.

If you are looking for a Best Vacuum for Wool Berber Carpets, Laminate & Tile then my strong recommendation will be the Hoover Power Scrub Deluxe Carpet Cleaner.

That's a shampooer / extractor, not a vacuum cleaner.