Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Notice the absence of the Dutch Tech canisters? The presence of the Edge, which was supposed to have been an dealer exclusive? So much for integrity. Oreck dealers fared betetr when Dave was at the helm.

CarmineD wrote:
Yes, I am trying to get you to answer questions and not give us nonsense.  

Mike_W wrote:

Same old same old from you. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
I suspect Carmine, that you're trying to gloss over the fact that whoever makes whoever's machines, Oreck is going to shine superior regardless. End of the day, Oreck can only survive on their hand held portable canisters - ones that they probably produce themselves. If they're a small company then I can see why they would go with other mass brands to make portable pull along wheeled canister vacuums. Whether or not they are made in China has nothing to do with perceived quality - Miele's S4 vacuums can attest to that.

vacmanuk wrote:

No vacmanuk, not at all about holdin ORECK over others. I said for $499 a China made canister [cylinder] as is the Quest even with the ORECK name and backing is not worth the money.  The straight suction model is $299 which as I said is the only model right now available in my area.  Pano, EUREKA, HOOVER and others make the same/similar models as the straight suction Quest under their names at a fraction of the $299 price.  With components like hose and wands and attachments that are same same as the Quest.  Even motor specs and features like the cordwinder.  At that price [$499} I would prefer/buy a USA made/German made cann.  I have also said before here many times that a MIELE made cann in China should not be the same price as a German made MIELE and if so I would pass it up.  Not worth the same $.  That's me, others like you and Mike W. and his fondness for high priced panosonics are entitled to spend your money as you wish.  Mike W. once here called the halo, a China made $499 upright with one year warranty, a good performer despite its high price and weak warranty.  I posted here that retailers' sales people carrying the halo were getting commissions to push it: $50-$100 per sale.  It went belly up in short order and Nick Garcia [halo founder] sold the rights to ORECK after other vacuum makers turned him down.  Mike W. called that one wrong unless of course he was getting commissions on the halo sales.  Don't know for sure just my opinion and observation.  He never mentioned it here.  It's an important sales point and so I did.  Maybe he didn't know.  Give him the benefit of the doubt. And not say he was not up front. 

Carmine D. 

I would add as discussion too that perhaps the S4 is being made in China for MIELE because MIELE plans to scrub the line eventually.  Again, just for discussion as is the subject tab on this site and thread the last I saw/read.  Not as fact unless it turns out to be the case.  And it may.  hard to verify right now.  I don't know it as a fact yet BUT offer as opinion FOR DISCUSSION and it may at some future time become fact and then I'll post it so.

Yes but how does the vacuum perform?

For your info, Miele's original S4 models were made both in China and Germany. It had nothing to do with the model being taken out of production.

vacmanuk wrote:

I didn't say it did.  I offered it up for discussion.  What I said MANY TIMES HERE is a China made MIELE is not worth the same price as a German made MIELE. 

In addition to performance you have to factor in quality and labor costs.  In my way of thinking China made quality is not on parity with German and the labor costs in China [slave wages without the guilt] are not either.   

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
It looks like you came back and changed some things.  I did not recall seeing my name so much.

Yes, I did call the Halo a good performer.  Now, where does that correlate w/not agreeing to the high price or the "weak" warranty?  Anyone can think the Rexair Rainbow is a good machine, but not like the DTD price.  Or, not like the way it is sold, but enjoy using the vacuum cleaner.  A person who knows about vacuum cleaners should talk about many aspects of the machine and everything associated w/it; no matter if it is good or bad.   Anyone reading/hearing about it should be able to understand what is being said, w/o bias. 

Reread my review, in the review section, again Carmine.  I believe I made reference to ORECK and even the HOOVER  Elite.  Everything I said was true.  I could see you making a comment if I had said something like, "You have to get this machine, because it is worth it at any price.  It is even made in China and the price includes a generous one year warranty.  But I did not say that, did I?.  I even talked about the germ-killing capabilities, which I also discussed on the forum.  You failed to mention that.  I am sure, in your mind, I said the germ killing feature will work really well and that everyone will like using it.  Plus, they will use it properly.

You say that the company went "belly up" and I "called that one wrong".  Really?  I did not know that I was responsible for every company I talk about.  I did not know that every person in the world will/should be listening to me.  I gave a good, thorough evaluation of the Halo, but I cannot help how a company markets their product.  You give me too much credit.

In a Halo thread, you said that I got it wrong.  The first company got it wrong, but ORECK came to save the day, because they know how to market it for a niche market.  I tried to get you to explain that reasoning, but you did not.  Now, we are seeing how that is working out.  Actually, the Halo has been off the website for a while now.  It did not just happen.  They are not selling.  They should have marketed it better. 


If some of the "old timers" of the forum recall, I do not tell others to purchase expensive machines.  TOL Panasonics were very good when I recommended them.  When I recommended Rainbows, I told them to go to ebay or visit vac shops in their area.  I did not tell them to call the Rainbow dealer.  Carmine, when you complain about the high price of a particular machine, really think who you should be blaming. Think about it.

I'm not going to re-quote your post.  It's long winded.  I'll just make a few points:  You gave the halo 4 out of 5 stars.  That speaks for itself.  ORECK bought the rights because it was a competitor.  It was a smart move by ORECK.  Marketing it and selling was not ORECK's reason.  ORECK never even pushed the halo.  Just watched it fade away.  What about the sales commissions on halo?  How did you miss that one?  Rather important fact IMHO. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
First, I will address you Carmine.  Like you said, it is only your opinion. 


Now, I want to address this to other business owners.  Would you go out and have something made, so you could market it; knowing that you did not want the product to sell?  I sure would not.  That is not good business for me.

If Halo is competition, then it is a threat to ORECK.  If Halo is a flop, then it is not competition to ORECK, therefore not a threat. It would be pretty stupid and unwise of ORECK to take the Halo and spend a great fortune to market it, if they did not want it on the market. All ORECK would have needed to do is let it die in Halo Technology's hands w/o spending a cent.  Another option would be to purchase the rights and hold onto it, so no other company becomes a "Competitor".

As I have said since the beginning of time,  ORECK purchases  other vacuum cleaners, puts his name on it and sells them for an even higher price.  The Halo is just another example.  Whirlpool was his first.

Mike_W wrote:

Your argument is flawed on its face because you have no idea of the amount associated with the purchase of halo by ORECK.  Obviously, ORECK felt it was in their best business interests to buy the UV-C technolgy in the form of the halo product and sell off the existing inventory while holding the rights to the UV-C technlogy at least for a set period of time certain.

Carmine D.