Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

   Customers are coming in  asking  about bags, belts and filters for cleaners that Wal Mart sells. They were told they were discontinuing these products and want the customers to go online when they need these items. When you need a belt or anything else ,it is," I need it now", not days from now. These customers didn't like being told they had to go to another store if they had what they needed. In our area it is 20 miles in three directions for a store.

  Many small businesses have been driven out of business by this company as well as other big box stores.I feel there will be a ressurection of the Independent Vac Shops because people will find getting parts and service there is better than going online and waiting. Looking at a cleaner and seeing what it will do is better than buying online and hope it does what it is supposed to. Online sales will still be made but having the service after the sale is still important. 

You can say what you will about your favorite brand but when it gets down to buying a cleaner going to a Vac Shop is the best way.  At Wal Mart and the other big box stores they sell you what they want to sell you. At least with Vac shops you can find a wider variety of Vacuums.The Door to Door sales peolpe also have a variety. It is if the cleaner meets the needs of the consumer that they buy.

                                                                                                           Procare

procare wrote:
In the UK the story is slightly different. Many 'big box companies," such as Argos, Comet, Currys and to a latter extent John Lewis will sell what the market is getting in terms of new brands and new models. Argos deals with the budget buyer to premium, Comet and Currys offer similar whilst John Lewis actually test the products out before they put them on the shop floor. JL may have a smaller product range but they have a larger amount of accessories, filters and bags on offer compared to the other companies.

UK Private vac shops have a bad habit of hiking up the price. Yes, I'm aware they need to make a profit but not larger than the prices that are being sold at the "big box" stores hoping to get away with it or retailed prices the actual companies themselves are charging. The biggest headache for any private vac repairer is google, because any consumer can look up the spare part they need, order it online and then have it within a couple of days.

It is disappointing though that some U.S companies are discontinuing spares but its not a new thing; buyers should feel compelled to buy bulk parts such as belts and bags well before they run out of them, something that Argos are now including with some of their "exclusive' Chinese built vacuums. Electrolux also put SMS washable reuseable bags for their cylinder vacs, but the problem with Electrolux is that they are not consistent and thus don't put extra things in all of their vacuums they sell. I had to buy three boxes of bags and 2 packs of spare drive belts for my last Electrolux upright because the "new and healthy disposable high filtration bags" were constantly sold out at my local private vac shop and the drive belts were particularly hard to source too.

procare wrote:

Hello Procare:

Interesting.  I was at Wal*Mart this past Wednesday to purchase weatherstripping for my daughter and son-in-law's garage.  First time I made a visit there in months.  I checked out the vacuum aisles.  I was stunned.  The vacuum replacement parts portion was reduced in size from my previous visit and in complete disarray.  I looked for several common belts and bags and bagless filters but did not see them stocked.  I didn't really think much more than what I had read recently about a major shake-up in Wal*Mart management over merchandise inventory/supplies.  Never gave it a second thought.  You explained it.  Thanks for the information.

Carmine D.

This saddens me....  I have in the past been able to find "emergency" F and G bags for my Eurkeas, Oreck upright bags, and Hoover A bags, not to mention Eureka round belts.... though not as good as the originals, they do work in a pinch.  I guess I will be getting all my "stuff" from Ebay now and just stocking up in advance.  I guess if one vacuum gets a full bag or broken belt, I can use the 34 others until the replacement arrives :O)  Wal-mart is annoying me lately.....   they removed the fabric department (while not good quality fabrics, they also had a lot of notions they no longer carry, and it saved me a trip to Joanns when I was in the middle of a sewing project, or needed something in the middle of the night).... they have also stopped carrying my favorite organic body wash and many other things I used to buy there.... they just rearranged our entire store, and it's awful.... not organized and it takes an hour to find what I need now.  Every time I go to Wal-mart, I swear I'll never go back, but the fact that they are right across the street and open 24 hours (I like to shop in the wee hours when it's not crowded) means that I will probably go there even though they only continue to disappoint me with their foolish decisions.  Selections across the board from kitchen utensils to personal care products have been severely reduced, taking choices away from consumers, and I think that is terrible. 

Vacuumfreeeke wrote:

Or go to your local Vacshop and support your local economy

Actionvac wrote:
The problem with most shops these days is that the seller is forced to go down copy bags. You might not have this in the U.S/Canada but its rife in the UK. I've used copy bags on my Sebo and Miele vacs and 80% of the time the bags work but the filters get dirtier. In the department stores they sell the genuine article and some private shops do sell similar genuine articles but half the time copy bags are cheaper for the buyer but detrimental for the vacs.

The vac shops in a my area are awful.... they are old rednecks that are rude to gay people and they don't even what to talk to you unless you want to buy a new Riccar from them.... totally awful.  I had the same experience with sewing machine dealers when I wanted to get a sewing machine for myself and I contacted at least 10 dealers.... they were ALL nasty to me, so Amazon got 500 dollars of my money, the local economy didn't seem to want it!    I've tried to strike up conversations with some of the vac shop people because I'm a collector and I know more about vacuums than the average consumer, they were only interested in trying to extract as much money from me as possible! 

Vacuumfreeeke wrote:
When I got into collecting, I used to keep the original vacs out of use and use old ones that were refurbished or reconditioned.

I had a similar experience when I visited my friend's mum in another part of Scotland. The old man argued with me about the price of an old refurbished Hoover Junior 1980s model that he had done up "personally," and charged an astronomical price for it until I started to roll off trade prices and names of parts that he recognised from old Hoover tech speak and I could start to see the "horror' of my knowledge reflected in his face. Then he said he could drop the vacuum price down to 15% off, "just for me," to which I still didn't give in. I told him it would never sell at the price he had in the window. Three years on after visiting again, the same vacuum sits in the back of the shop, still on display, still original high price and now the original bag he had put on it (which was what I was after) is now faded and dusty. What a waste!

Hi,

The like goes on everywhere.  Purely due to brand name, an untold amount of sellers will try to palm off over-priced junk - whether refurbed, cleaned up or pulled from the trash.  I guess there are enough easily gulled buyers around as the practice has yet to stop.

Just came across a private seller today on Craig's List offering an allegedly boxed up and unused DC28 for $450.  He of course didn't fail to mention that it priced at $600 in the stores.  What he forgot is that he is not a "store" or why someone should give 450 bucks to an unestablished seller.

Venson

I suspect vacuum store owners are not interested in selling these old classics but prefer to use as displays for conversation.  Of course, for the right price, they will sell but don't anticipate a sale price.  It's the PT Barnum price if the right [read gullible] buyer comes along.

Carmine D.

Vacuumfreeeke wrote:

Funny who would of thought that when a Monopoly drives the competition out of business....service/choice/availability and more would leave town as well. Sorry that all the indies in your area are not friendlier. Maybe they are just tired of fighting the Net and big box shops they have just given up on what is actually their biggest asset, friendly, knowledgeable service. It's no excuse, just an explanation.

Wal-Mart has eliminated fabrics in many of their stores as well. They are systematically eliminating any merchandise that requires ANY knowledge of a salesperson. As fo the vacuum belts and filters, the logic is simple. If you have to vacuum NOW, and it is inconvenient to get to a vac shop, you'll buy a new vacuum. You are already in the store. It's 59.00 to 159.00. The last one only lasted a year anyway, if that. So, they figure people will buy a new vacuum, and since going to the vac shop is not a high priority once a functioning vacuum is in the house, most will not return it. It's brilliant marleting by today's cutthroat unscrupulous standard of 'screw the customer as often and as thoroughly as possible'   I have noticed the vacuum selections in Wal-Mart becoming fewer.  In some not a Dyson in sight. Price point is 159.00 on down. The low end and vacuums will continue to be the biggest sellers, and we can expect to see the mid-priced vac start at no less than 300.00 on sale, more likely 400 to 500 in vac shops.

People are still hypnotized by the bagless concept.. I visit two shops in town with some frequency. Both do huge business in Dyson repair. One shop says Dyson is their second biggest seller.. Still, with all the other Dyson outlets in town.

Trebor wrote:

Hi Trebor:

Was ist los? 

Good argument on Wal*Mart if economic times were good.  Forget the parts/repairs, buy new.  In bad times like these and into the future, parts/repairs are the key.  IMHO.

With regard to bagless, the fad is fading for high priced ones. IMHO.

Carmine D.

With some things, unless you are really down to your last few dollars, it doesn't matter. I'll give you another example. When both husband and wife work, the family eats out more/does more carry in/take out. It's not good economy, but the reality is when Mom's too tired to think about dinner, and kids need to be schlepped to activities, it happens. Just like when Mom goes to Wal-Mart to get a belt and filters for the vacuum because she needs to vacuum TODAY, when she finds no bags or filters and the nearest shop is 20 miles out of her way, she will buy the vacuum thinking to return it. Before she realizes, 30 days have slipped away. the new vacuum is filthy, and she still does not have a belt or filters for the old one. Guess what? She bought another vacuum. I promise you, that very discussion took place among the marketing strategists at Wal-Mart. And as more vac shops close, and more retailers follow suit with W/M it will be the case. Declining profits are causing the manufacturers and retailers alike to look for ways to boost profits., and the only way left is more unit sales. Watch for it. Lowe's and the rest will eliminate their bag/belt/filter sections before long. It's pathetic, but it is the way Wal-Mart and their ilk think behind that smiley face.

I think Procare's prognostication about more independent shops is may be true, but not before Wal-Mart and other BBR have wrung more dollars from their customers. Eventually, I expect W/M to evetually eliminate vacuums from their merchandise offerings completely. Having ruined the retail vac market, they will say "It's just not profitable to sell vacuums" Then we will see more vac shops, but what will they sell? Miele, Lindhaus, Sebo, Riccar/Simplicity, and rebuilt premiums, Panasonic, maybe, Sanitaire, Perfect, Metropolitan. Will they even want to touch Hoover, Eureka, Dirt Devil and Bissell? It will be interesting.Wal-Mart's ploy may prove to be a boon to Kirby and other DTD brands.

I don't see it as all that much of a tragedy.  One monkey don't stop the show and even if there's two around that doesn't mean they get to run it either.

Wal-Mart is not the only game in town these days.  I have seldom browsed or bought there as they usually have nothing I want.  (However, I must also admit bias due to W-M's rep regarding its employees.)   I have more than enough ways to acquire necessary items at affordable prices without worrying over what Wal-Mart, Target or Best Buy has got.  AND yes they're all legal.

Though chain stores have disrupted single-owned business and mom-and-pop stores in this country, I think once a gap in the area in mention appears it will be filled.  There's of course the internet and good old online buying but small brick-and-mortar business, if quick to move, might find a way to put roots in again.  Much to my surprise, I saw a vacuum cleaner repair and supply business being run at a flea market in Delaware.

People are adaptable and if need be can work out all manner of merely household necessity without looking to the great corporate teat to provide it for us.  I hate the economy as it stands but I see a good possibility in it getting people to start thinking again.

Venson

IMHO its not about vacuum parts and fabrics sales.  It's about usage of retail space and effort/time to keep inventoried.  Bags belts filters and the like are a nightmare.  I suspect fabris and their related needs are too.  Scrub them and put in its place higher profit with fewer sales.  Less work and trouble.  Can you imagine the toil to go through the vacuum parts aisles in W*M rearrange the items and then take an inventory with the hand held gun.  That space has to take one of the longest times to inventory of all the items in the store [save the fabric section].  BTW, I understand W*M is also cutting back on the fish selections and related accoutrements.  Too much trouble I was told for the amount of sales and profits associated with the fish.

Carmine D.

Wal-mart is not getting rid of their vacuum cleaner supplies.  They have plenty of supplies displayed in one section of the aisle, plus display the supplies beside the matching vacuum cleaner.  I have plenty of Wal-marts in my area which are set up the same way.  One store just remodeled and just moved the departments around.  If they stop selling vacuum cleaner supplies, that means they will end up going to Target or Kmart for supplies.  Does Wal-mart really want that?

They are not going to sell all supplies for all machines.  This has always been true of ALL STORES.  You see the same thing at Lowe's HD, Kmart and even stores that are no longer around.  Space cost money.  When something does not sell, stores will get rid of it.  When the packaging changes, they get rid of the old.  I have found some excellent deals, because of this.  Wal-mart, and other stores, are only going to sell what sells.  That is why you see the products that are in Wal-mart.  People are buying it.  People who go into this store want to buy a cheap $50 vacuum cleaner and not a $400+ dyson or a $250+ HOOVER WT Anniv. bagged upright.  The Wal-marts in my area took these HOOVERs off the self and now only sell them online.  Granted, the price for it is excellent now.  Cannot blame Wal-mart, because the shoppers want it.

Wal-mart looks for the best deals from their suppliers.  Wouldn't you do the same?  Why do you think many stores are selling one brand of bags for different makes of vacuum cleaners.  Electrolux Homecare goes to Wal-mart and says "We can give you a lower price for these bags, which would give you a larger profit, compared to the price you would pay for supplies from HOOVER, DD, Eureka, Bissell.  Wal-mart says, "let's do it"!  P & G partners w/Wal-mart to supply the WM stores.  This is true of other suppliers also.  Some have good results, while others have bad.  You see, you cannot blame WM.  If WM is so bad, suppliers should not sell to them.  If they are so bad, people should not shop w/WM.  But they still do.  Suppliers still contact them everyday to put merchandise in their store.  People still crowd the stores.  Look at Carmine who promoted WM for a long time, then put down WM for their practices.  Now he tells you that he shopped there this last week.  You see, people are still coming.

If WM, or any other store, were cutting down on their vacuum inventory, I would consider it a plus for me.  Even if they were not, it still is a plus for me.  Stores have to think how they can compete and how to be better.  Not say "poor me".  You the store owner cannot be stagnant and say "I am going to keep my store the way it was in the 60's".  You have to constantly be on the ready to change.  Do all that you can to sell, as long as it is legal and ethical.  I can recall a regional variety store from old who fell on hard times, because they did not change when WM came in.  They ended up going into bankruptsy, then making changes.  They are still around, but it would have been better/easier to change w/the times. I know of other stores who have gone out of business and WM was not even around.

Mike_W wrote:

I promoted the Wal*Mart's ability to withstand an economic downtown over other competitors.  Predicted its stock would outperform Best Buy and others in recent years.  It did both just as I said it would.  I shop at W*M several times a year usually for one or two items like bulbs and weatherstripping.  These were my most recent yearly purchases.  Occasionally I'll buy some cans of spray paint from W*M too.  As I mentioned, I know several long time W*M and Sam's employees who rose through ranks of W*M/Sam's store and respect Sam Walton's business philosophy.  They are friends of mine.  Have beem for years.  One can object, as I did, to management's treatment of employees.  Wrong is wrong.  Withholding wages is a sin that cries out to God regardless of who does it.  Still, one can respect the business/sales of the store over the competition and condemn it for its wrongdoing of employees.  At least, I can and did. 

Again, Mike I thank you for your attention and notice of me. 

Carmine D.

Mike W,

Not to be disagreeable, but I must disagree. It is not every week I am in Wal-mart, but i average probably one visit a month, not always the same one (there are FIVE Walmarts withing a 12 mile radius) In the two newest and largest Super Walmarts the vacuum selection is meager, six or seven uprights, a few stick vacs, a few carpet cleaners, and very few filters and belts, only for the models currently sold. I looked over the aisles in front and back of the display and to the sides thinking it was being moved or revamped. Nope.
In at least some of the Walmarts there is significant reduction of the skus of vacuums and related supplies.

Trebor wrote: Robert;

I said, "Wal-mart is not getting rid of their vacuum cleaner supplies".

So how many vacuum cleaners should a store have?  How many does Target  and Kmart have?  What you said is not "getting rid of vacuum cleaners and supplies". I think the WMs in my surrounding area have 12 uprights avg. 3 canisters, plus some sticks and handvacs and bags, belts, filters for all of them.  Granted, I have not gone down and counted each one. 

If they get rid of all of them, which they will not, they will be shooting themselves in the foot and bestowing blessings on Target, Kmart, HD,Lowe's and vac shops.   

Over the last couple of years, I have almost always taken a walk through the vacuum aisle of any BBR I happen to visit, of whatever stripe, home improvement, electronics, or department/discount. The average number of full size  vacuums has consistently been 15, what will fit on the shelf of an aisle. The carpet cleaners and stick/hand vacs typically are facing the vacuums, and frequently one or more end caps are devoted to vacuum display. Wal-Mart is the one store that has recently and radically cut that selection so that all of it fits on one side of one aisle.  Probably the largest part of the reason behind that is the reduction of the highest price point in the offerings to be no higher than 159.99

Lowe's and Best Buy have much larger selections, with prices approaching 300.00 for non-Dyson models. Dyson is still present at both those retailers, and they both offer canisters as well.

Trebor wrote:

Hello Trebor,

I suspect you're correct as is Procare and the information he's receiving from W*M customers who couldn't find their usual vacuum parts on the shelves.  W*M has always maintained that its typical customers shop at least once a week every week, have 5-10 items to buy, and want to spend no more than 20-30 minutes finding/buying these items and be out of the store.  W*M made a huge investment in time and money several years ago trying to ensure that customers could get the last one or two items they need in 20 minutes including the time needed to check out and pay.  

It's no wonder that since January 31 2010, after the annual W*M stockholders meeting, there have been major shakeups in W*M management for merchandizing, store operations, and inventory management.  WIth thhe reasons kept very close to the vest.

The more vacuum products you carry, the more replacement parts too you have to stock and display.  The more vacuum parts, the more shelf space.  The more shelf space, the more difficult and time consuming to arrange, sort and keep organized.  Most especially in recent years with the onslaught of pre-post bagless filters.  It's a nightmare for stores and their customers.  If the parts are out of place, require time for look ups/staff assistance, W*M customers/shoppers won't bother.  They'll leave frustrated without the needed vacuum parts.  In good times, just buying another inexpensive make/model.  Not now in bad IMHO.

Whether you cull, which W*M does regularly as all BBR stores do, or scrub completely, the result is a loss of sales [not customers in W*M cases].  W*M will still get shoppers who will most probably end up buying other products and merchandise rather than vacuums/their replacement parts.  Sure, other retailers will profit from the W*M changes.  I'm sure W*M has factored this into their decision making process already.  But, W*M has other products to make up the losses: Food, gas, clothes, furniture, appliances, electronic equipment, cards, magazines, drugs, toiletries, and the list goes on.  

Time will tell if the decision is right or not.

Carmine D.

PS:  If the decision and changes work for W*M's bottom line, and obviously it will take time to know, watch for other BBR store chains to do the same.  All bodes better for vacuum store independents who will be the winners in the end.  They will get more customers and sales, even if just vacuum parts and repairs.  Finally one more reason for dropping all if not most vacuums: The cost and expense for the loss on returns in recent years have become astronomical for BBR stores.

FWIW, Wall Street Journal yesterday carried an article about Wal*Mart in particular and several other retailers like Home Depot and Lowes who reported Qtr 2 earnings this week.  "Retailers Are Sold on Frugality, by line: Store Chains Take Cue From Shoppers As They Brace for Rough Second Half.  Several new W*M execs [installed after the management shakeup following the annual W*M stockholders meeting] talked about major changes in all W*M stores.  Some of which have been mentioned here in this thread:  Culling products, sizes, selections and staff.  The key is cost cutting and lowering expenses to improve the bottom line.  All retailers see a long protracted andf slow recovery especially for the housing market and consumer spending.  Complaints by retailers are already coming in about the lackluster  "back to school" sales usually the busiest time of the year for retail sales not counting Christmas. 

Carmine D.

Complaints by retailers are already coming in about the lackluster  "back to school" sales usually the busiest time of the year for retail sales not counting Christmas.


Having worked many years in retail, the big predictor of how lush or sparse a Christmas season would be was back to school sales. If the kids got all their fall clothes in  one swoop, Christmas presents  were luxury clothing and toys. If they got just what they needed to start the semester because it's all Mom and Dad could afford, then Christmas gifts were mainly the balance of the clothes usually purchased at the beginning of the term in better times.

Trebor

Trebor wrote:

Hello Trebor:

Some financial analysts are blaming the doom and gloom Wall Street Journal article on retail sales and the economic outlook for the sell off in the markets on Thursday and the Dow's 145 point decline.  SEARS reported financial results too the following day.  Didn't even meet the street's predictions and forecasts but came in worse.

Carmine D.

Carmine,

I view the current  economic situation as the result of a very skewed set of values. The consumer culture as we know it is less than 100yrs old. The whole concept of creating needs that can never be fulfilled was deliberately crafted and foisted on the American public, We work to earn to spend, rather than  work to live, with spending as a necessity that is sometimes enjoyable. A healthy economy was a by-product rather that the raison d'etre.

We have reached a dead end. We already have too much stuff and can no longer afford to buy more, not even at reduced prices thanks to lower wages overseas and increasing trade deficits.  We in the US live in what is essential a gated community untouched by the troubles our consumptive lifestyle wreaks upon the rest of the world. Lives used up too soon to bring us the mall, where indulgence awaits the bearers of cash, check and above all else credit cards.

Natural capitalism views natural resources, including human capital as valuable, too valuable to be squandered or misappropriated or abused, but still recognizes the value of free markets and competition. It is a way out of the mess we find ourselves in without becoming a socialist country and ever increasing government intervention.

Trebor

Trebor wrote:
The UK isn't that far off. Thanks to the internet the consumer gets a better bargain than trade who mark up prices in a fight to survive. It works in some areas and in other areas, not.

Sadly, Americans are so "stuff" oriented that our propensity to have and want more has spawned a new American industry for storage centers nationwide.  Imagine, we are so tied to our possessions we pay to store them and never enjoy.  We've confused the desire to consume more and own more with happiness.  Albeit superficial as most learn with wisdom and age.

My daughter recently drove my old Ford Exp XLT and commented how old it was.  100,000 miles and almost 12 years old.  But, still going strong.  Every two weeks it doubles in value: I gas it up. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Hi Carmine,

Despite it being quite true that many Americans are suffering from too much of a good thing, obesity being an all too common ill these days, let's not forget that those nifty storages spaces are also being used by many displaced persons. They are trying, if nothing else, to hold onto some of what they have and what they feel they may not be able to soon buy again. 

I have seen much of it here in the city and its surrounds and speak of those persons who have suffered foreclosures, those who have lost rented spaces due to their loss of unemployment benefits and no likely possibilities of work in view.  There are those as well who are working but who have been forced to take smaller living spaces due to the unaffordability of more adequate but reasonable space because of low rates of pay or fixed income.

We shouldn't forget either that here we often advocate the ownership of more than one vacuum as opposed to suggesting just one that may prove good all around for the average person.

Again a possible answer to all this is for us over-consumers to learn to say, "Uh-uh, I don't need it."  But, that's a long way off I think. Let those that can thank the Lord for money and solid medical insurance to cover their excesses. Let those doing without thank Him anyhow.

Venson

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson:

Sad but true.  Not only using the storage spaces for clutter but some, illegal as it is, live in them for lack of a place. 
We can thank the US foreclosure mess to Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, Government Supported Enterprises promoted by the likes of Senators Christopher Dodd and Barney Frank.  Home ownership was the American dream.  Now it's an American nightmare.  40 percent of Americans owned homes in pre-WW11 America.  By mid 80's, 65 percent.  Right before the housing bubble burst in 2007, the percentage was 74, the highest its ever been.  It's gone down dramatically since then.  After one home, many bought another, and another.  Using the over inflated equity in one for the down payment on another.  Washington DC sold us a bill of goods.

Back to here.  With more and larger homes, came the need for more vacuums.  With home foreclosures and less new homes built, there's less of a need for more vacuums.  Consumers are saying "no" and getting more frugal with spending.  Buy, use, and reuse.  Like the good old days.  Hence, the reason for W*M and other BBR stores cutting back on number of products, sizes, brands, staff, etc to reduce costs and shore up the bottom line. 

The Almighty should always get paid first [we use to call it tithing.  10 percent says the Bible].  Like the old poor woman in the temple who gave her last 2 pennies in the money box [you can hear the miniscule sound they made] but gave more than the rich Pharisees who put in heavy coins making big loud noises for all to hear.

Where your treasure is, there will be your heart.  

Carmine D.    

CarmineD wrote:

All I'd like is to have is enough to lend to reasonable comfort.  I don't need a powder room or extra bath, a deluxe kitchen or closets overflowing with clothes.  I can manage quite well with what I already have for the time being.  All I want is the privilege to greet the first of the month and the bills that come without shaking in my shoes.  Unfortunately, that's a problem shared everywhere it seems. 

I don't see myself as unfulfilled merely because I don't own a house.  A nice thing, yes but home ownership is, has and will always be something that only some of us may realistically hope for and there's nothi,ng wrong with that.  As well home ownership is not always everyone's cup of tea.  You can raise kids on concrete just as well you can on a grassy front and back yard  It's been done many times.

Thinking in that same vein, I would also say you need just one decent machine that fits your needs to help you get along.  Unless you've bought Windsor Castle, you merely have to pace your cleaning so that you take care of a little each day as opposed to attempting to make the whole place spic and span all in one Saturday.  Two vacuums are really only nice when there's someone else to work with the other one and save you some time. 

Best,

Venson

Venson.

The problem with saying "I don't need it" is that our entire economy has shifted to one of indulging wants rather than fulfilling needs. We have been trained to spend our way out of recession, and as I stated in an earlier post we have hit a wall where we can no longer do that. It just doesn't work. anymore. What is needed is a fundamental shift in how we view life and work, one that values human capital over excessive profit, and can endure ups and downs in profit as long as the general trend is upward. The stockholders screaming for higher and faster returns on investments have fueled the shift to foreign labor and the falling value of the dollar. The absolute disgrace of 'golden parachutes' for CEO's who have led their corporations to bankruptcy has not helped either. The solution is local industries, local economies, local.businesses. The' Small is Beautiful concept by E F Schumacher. With the world wide web there can be a plethora of specialized niche manufacturers and retailers providing exactly what the customer desires without all the Madison Avenue hype and hoopla.  There are thriving locally based communities scattered throughout the country and the world that even issue their own local scrip for currency. We have been trained to look to big government and big business to solve our problems instead of looking at the pool of talents and skills that exist locally. We CAN do it. We just need to see that we can do it, and begin.

Peace

Trebor wrote:

Trebor,

You're talking to someone who makes his own mayonnaise.  The games of life AND business are and have always been played on several tiers simultaneously and 24/7 all the way through.  In tandem with that reality, as always, "them that's got"  usually get to have the most fun while the nickel a bet guys get their thrills as best they can. I have no time to worry over what someone else is getting since what's theirs is not mine in the first place.  The real issue is whether or not I'm going to get enough of what I need. 

If someone's able to run a game on a major coprorration and get a parachute clause off of what is perceived to be his or her super star potential, more power to 'em.  The heights they may reach can be dazzling but the downward spiral so often viewed is quick and landing on your butt can be oh so very painful.

We already know that we're being played by industry and government all for the sake of money.  To me common sense says if you don't want to be played with pull some of your money off the table and begin getting a little stingy.  If I decide I don't need the flavor-of-the-day vacuum -- I don't need it.  If I'm happy enough with an HD TV you're not going to show 3-D TV down my throat unless I feel I want it.  I am not a fan of Nancy Reagan but I like to "just say no."

You may be too young to remember the bus boycotts back in the day after Rosa Parks' arrest for deciding not to give up her seat on one.  But, people objected and then decided they weren't going for it and refused to use the local buses.  They sacrificed of course.  Some people walked to work daily, some carpooled.  At the end of the day the bus company knuckled under and people of color from then on could sit wherever they chose on a public bus. 

However, no hand from Heaven swung down and knocked anyone at the bus company off the proverbial mule nor were any other type epiphanies experienced.  They simply missed the money. Missing money changes the mind of lots of men as to how they conduct business.

I don't have to have something just because someone else says so.  I'm the guy who has to pay for it and if you can't give me what I want the way I want it and when I want -- you get to keep it.  Simple as that.  I go on and find the thing elsewhere at an establishment where I believe my money wll serve people that I mght be able to respect in sense, shape or form. 

I am not as fearful of what future lurch big business may leave in me as I am of folks who feel they have no control over money they themselves have to go out and sweat for.  Life needn't be all that complicated if we refuse to allow others -- especially those wanting our money -- to complicate it.  Follow 'ol Nancy's rule -- if you don't want it, don't need it, if you know it's not good for you . . . tell 'em heck no.

Venson

Venson,

I'm not 100% sure we are on the same wavelength.  I believe it is our acceptance of a hierarchical system that devalues human labor that has created the present  situation, based on a belief in scarcity.  I liked your example of Rosa Parks.  When we as consumers unite and stop supporting corporations that pay exorbitant bonuses to executives, then those will stop. What we need to do is pay attention, When companies realize that people are paying attention to what they do, and basing buying decisions on that data, things will really change.

I choose to support local restaurants and coffee shops rather than national chains.  I had a manager at a local cafe seat me in a section other than where my favorite waitress was working.  I asked to be moved, he refused. i got up and left.  When I returned a few days later, i was seated in Lori's section, and every time I patronize the establishment, i am seated where Lori is waiting tables. I always get great service, and I tip her well.   I support a local used book reseller, both selling and buying books there.  The more we can revive our local economies, the faster we can jump start the national economy.  Small really is beautiful.

Trebor wrote:

Hello Trebor/Venson:

I do/did the same.  To this very day.  It's not just about the food/meal, it's about the eating experience including socialization. 

With the very likely possibility that a double dip rececession is in the offing, based on the latest housing data, the Mom and Pop stores/businesses will make a comeback.  The pendulum is swinging the other way: Local businesses rather than BBR stores.  I luv it.

To those who follow closely, I mentioned this back in 2005 when local city and county ordinances in Prince William County VA put instituted space restrictions on BBR store space.  The incident in particular limited a new Wal*Mart's building space to less than half the normal size.  The Prince William County board advised W*M management if it didn't like the new restrictions it could take over one of the exisiting buildings/stores that had been shuttered.  W*M looked elsewhere.   

Carmine D.

I thought this tidbit would be well served here.  With recent threads and posts about big box retailers and their wares especially in hard times, I scoped out the K-Mart Labor Day sales for vacuums and floorcare products.  Almost 400 in all on the Web site but with a twist.  The products are listed by being carried by K-Mart and/or SEARS and/or for shipping only.  Obviously, readers and viewers may draw the same/different conclusions from these findings and results.  But one thing to conclude for sure is that the times are a changing and the BBR stores are too.

Enjoy and HAPPY LABOR DAY.

http://www.kmart.com/shc/s/s_10151_10104_Appliances_Vacuums+%26+Floor+Care_View+All

Carmine D.

We talked about the changes coming from Wal*Mart here on this thread.  Here's the latest official word from the company itself. 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/WalMart-to-aggressively-roll-apf-63555426.html?x=0

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Mornin' Carmine,

Thanks for the article link.  I think we actually had a WalMart out here in Rego Park, Queens but it appears to have up and disappeared. I've never been fond of WalMart or Target.  Most of what they have is cheap stuff and I am not so enthused to jump in the car and burn gas just to save a penny or two.  It's simpler to walk the couple of blocks to my neighboring nondescript and small supermarket for everyday needs.

I did go to a Target about the size of two or three football fields out on the Island the other day just to kill some time and was sorely disappointed at what they had to offer.  The vac department was either low cost consumer brands or Dyson $#%* -- one of which pushed near the $500 mark.

This article surprised me in that it supplied an actual and accurate description of many shoppers who come to these stores.  They make do the best they can and are prepared to settle for less.  But, don't we all? However, customers out to make do are not good for businesses with execs and investors looking to live large.

Oddly enough I'm crazy about Costco.  Mine is a great big old place that poses no pretense in regard to style.  (Not a floor tile or scrap of rug to be found.) Besides my perception of easily finding worthwhile product there, maybe that's the extra thing that makes me like it.  If I want fancy-smancy, there's always Macy's and I haven't been there in years.

Venson

CarmineD wrote:

Mornin' Carmine,

Thanks for the article link.  I think we actually had a WalMart out here in Rego Park, Queens but it appears to have up and disappeared. I've never been fond of WalMart or Target.  Most of what they have is cheap stuff and I am not so enthused to jump in the car and burn gas just to save a penny or two.  It's simpler to walk the couple of blocks to my neighboring nondescript and small supermarket for everyday needs.

I did go to a Target about the size of two or three football fields out on the Island the other day just to kill some time and was sorely disappointed at what they had to offer.  The vac department was either low cost consumer brands or Dyson $#%* -- one of which pushed near the $500 mark.

This article surprised me in that it supplied an actual and accurate description of many shoppers who come to these stores.  They make do the best they can and are prepared to settle for less.  But, don't we all? However, customers out to make do are not good for businesses with execs and investors looking to live large.

Oddly enough I'm crazy about Costco.  Mine is a great big old place that poses no pretense in regard to style.  (Not a floor tile or scrap of rug to be found.) Besides my perception of easily finding worthwhile product there, maybe that's the extra thing that makes me like it.  If I want fancy-smancy, there's always Macy's and I haven't been there in years.

Venson

My pleasure, Venson.  The times they are changin.  Even for big box retail stores and their wares.

We have the market size W*M and the Super Center W*M within about 3 mile radius of each other.  The former has a sparse inventory of vacuum supplies and no vacuums to speak of save an occasional stick/hand vac for sale.  The latter is slowly reducing on-hand vacuum inventory and all their supplies.  It's been a ugly sight to see as the vacuum aisles in the W*M Supercenter gets ignored in the store's down sizing and makeover process.

Carmine D.

More on big box retailers downsizing:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/In-These-Lean-Times-Even-nytimes-799726442.html?x=0&.v=1

Carmine D.

Hi Carmine,

Thanks for the article. Bloomy's, et al, must be in trouble but so are a lot of other folks -- the shoppers. I'll waiting to see if and when the "spartanizing" tactics might eventually make a significant difference for consumers too by way of prices. The more they trim their sails regarding overhead the less we expect to pay.

In past, the higher prices at Bloomingdale's, Macy's and other big department stores might have been excused or looked past due to the stores' efforts to manufacture a kind of special atmosphere, tone I guess is the better word, but that is apparently no longer a concern to shoppers. Everybody is looking to save.

Mr. Underhill's statement about confused customers is both on and off the mark. Yes, people may get confused but why? Considering the kind of near self-service venues they're attempting to move us toward, put out as many brands as you want but in regard to appliances, electronics, etc., provide clearly legible, plain English spec sheets/signs that customers may read for themselves -- especially in stores where sales help is sparse whether or not by design. I'd also add that I've walked out of more stores because in their effort to save they've cut back on staffing at the registers. Keep me in line too long and I begin counting reasons why I can live without whatever I'd intended to buy.

The only place I've seen a remedy for this so far is at Home Depot where they have self-service checkout areas.

There's also the matter of customer confidence. I see lots of sales staff pushing product merely because its sale garners higher commissions. This does not always lead to happiness for the customer. (This appears to happen a lot with Dyson over other good bagless brands though it also seems to only work once every blue moon when price comparisons are made.)

Considering the times and the economy, its sensible that all kinds of shopping venues lose a little fat but customers should never feel they're getting the bum's rush in the process. The store will surely lose in the end.

Venson

Venson wrote:

Hello Venson

Totally agree... I also have walked out and left what i planned to purchase due to long lines and countless unused registers. Its gotten to the point where online shopping is more conveinent and less of the hassle... the bbx stores can only lose in the end on this one.

turtle

retardturtle1 wrote:



Hiya turtle,

How have you been?

Thinking on your response I can't help but wonder if that might not be what they want. You can even buy shoes online now. You just have to know your size. A mouse click will show color and provide an all around view.

I believe there are a few sites to which you may submit your measurements and body proportions for clothing buys.

I also make note that established credit is no longer necessary in that debit cards that draw directly from your bank account or pre-paid versions with usage fees are readily available. Just about anyone who wants to gets to play.

Venson

Venson wrote:

Hey Venson

Ive been good....just really busy my friend......and how have you been?

Gotta say its much eiser to order online than to deal with the hassle of the bbx store lines.....the prepaid card is and are the sign of the times.

Turtle

Bloomingdale's is owned by Macy's.  It's done well this year, better than most retailers, and improving over last year's operations.  Enjoying a sales resurgence, reduced costs and expenses, and upper end spending including on-line sales increase of 24% over last eyar.  3rd qtr 2010 profit of $10 MILLION and yearly earnings forecasts of $2 per share.  Total sales increased as same store sales increased 3.9%.  Expecting a good 4th quarter profit and with the current momentum a Holiday season at least as proportional in pricing and sales to last year.

Carmine D. 

Several retailers normally closed on Thanksgiving Day are announcing they will be open.

Retailers are changing with the consumers.  Reflecting the same mood as the customers.  Leaner, meaner, more conservative spenders.  Retailers are adjusting to them too by downsizing and getting more lean.  Good business.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Hi Carmine,

I've got nothing against leaner or meaner as long as ease and convenience for shoppers is not overly sacrificed in finding what they like or want and paying up.

Thanks for the heads-up re Thanksgiving store openings. It will be interesting to see if shopping can compete with what's usually a big football day -- a big thing for a lot of Americans.

Venson

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson:

I suspect after Church and Thanksgiving Day dinner, the men will recline to watch the football games on the big screen TV and the women will go shopping.  At least that will be the way it works for us.  In previous years, I mentioned that the ladies were up and out early for Friday sales after Thanksgiving Day.  With retailers opening on TD, less of a Friday morning sales rush.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Hi Carmine

Have to agree with you on that one ....did it one year and cant say i had fun. ..id rather have a tooth pulled. Nothing beats a full tummy and football...followed by a nap.

turtle

CarmineD wrote:

I made one of several yearly visits to Wal*Mart today to buy enamel spray paint.  The local Wal*Mart Super Center has the exact brand and color of my outdoor lawn furniture which is in need of touch up.  Swung by the vacuum aisles.  2 aisles to be exact not counting the floor space thruout the store loaded with pallets of new vacuums.  Nice array of products as usual but noticed that the parts and vacuum supplies has been substantially culled and the newly available aisle space used to display more new floorcare products:  HOOVER, EUREKA, SHARK, BISSELL and DIRT DEVIL to be specific.  The vacuum parts were organized and in their correct spaces and places.  But the amount of space that they use now is probably 1/10 of the aisle space they once commanded in this store.  Easy to keep them all neatly in their place now.  The parts and supplies are mostly if not exclusively HOOVER, EUREKA, BISSELL, DIRT DEVIL and SHARK accessories to match the lineup of the new floorcare products displayed and sold in this W*M store.

No parts for the high price bagless brand which has been culled down to a mere 2 display models collecting dust.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Hi Carmine,

Is this an indicator that the credit/debit card and the internet are taking hold?  It's one thing to go out looking for a vacuum itself and another to make a trek merely to purchase consumables.  I much prefer it to traveling all the way to a shop just  to get bags, belts or filters.  All you have to do is have the model or part number.  AND -- if you forget -- you're still at home and your cleaner's no farther than your closet if you need to re-check your info.

Venson

Venson wrote:
A lot of my friends rarely buy parts in store with cash. I tend to use my card too. Doesn't make much of a difference really unless you want lower costs by going online, and many use PayPal through EBAY direct account access rather than debit/credit card for safety. Reason I use my card is that I'm usually guaranteed, depending on the places I go to, the stores can trace the card rather than constantly having to keep the receipts. I guess this is a newer step forward, getting away from a paper friendly environment.

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson:

Not in my opinion.  It's an indicator that W*M prefers selling the new vacuum products rather than the parts to keep them going.  BTW, I should have mentioned the vacuum parts' which are in short supply find have skyhigh prices.  Two deterents: High prices and lack of the right bag/belt or filter for the customers.  Forcing vacuum customers looking for parts to buy a new vacuum instead OR if they can't find their parts and/or won't buy one of these new vacuums then make the trip to the vacuum store for another oprtion.

Carmine D.

vacmanuk wrote:

Vacmanuk:

According to all surveys done, most men in the US carry on average a mere $30 on them at all times.  Not much.  We have become a credit card using people and society. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Hi Carmine,

I think the picture has changed a little.  Since so much of payment for everyday expenditures, etc., has been facilitated the debit card has come into play.  Phone, cable, utility bills, shopping, even renewing car registration can be managed online and off without bona fide credit cards.

There's a non-interest bearing pre-paid version which, for a fee as needed, you may put funds on hold until needed and use to make online purchases even if you're credit ratings lousy.  These can be also funded by way of direct deposit set-ups. There are also debit cards granted by banks along with savings accounts  that allow for direct deposit of pay from your job or pension.  In either case, credit is not extended but, due to the card, you may use the card for all the same things you would a credit card as long as there is money in your acount.  The bright side to the debit card is the convenience it offers plus it won't allow you to spend what you don't have.  They've really caught on.

Venson

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson et al:

Here's a good article from the headline and front page of today's Wall Street Journal.  I can say with personal and firsthand experience that the article is right on for housing here in Las Vegas, Nevada. 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704570104576124502975117950.html

People are cashing out of investments, stocks and bonds, retirement accounts and so on, to purchase houses.  Then, possibly "refi" some point in the future.  With gold at such exorbitantly ridiculous prices now, the safe haven may very well be real estate, now that the bubble has burst.  All and all, very good indicatior for the vacuum industry and independent vacuum stores.  BTW, both Whirlpool and Electrolux AB reported quarterly earnings for the end of 2010 recently and as expected they were worse than the year before.  Always darkest before the dawn.

Carmine D.

FYI, Megyn Kelly [FOX news commentator] and Eric Holder, a FOX contributor and real estate expert, just updated viewers on the latest news for housing in the USA.  Megyn's home is underwater as are 23 percent of all US home owners.  They owe more than the home is currently worth.  11 percent of the US hjomes are vacant.  Another ONE MILLION homes are expected to be foreclosed in 2011 bringing the total on the market to 3 MILLION homes.  The worse in US history.  Even worse than the Great Depression.  Eric Holder held up the WSJ article I quoted above saying there are people sitting on the sidelines with access to cash ready to jump in and make a deal.  Megyn found that hard to believe.  But Eric held up the article and said here it is.

Americans are struggling.  But there are some who lively frugally and squirreled away resources who are ready and willing now to jump into the market. 

Ironically the FHA with $11 BILLION in funds to assist Amercian homeowners in Megyn's situation has had a grand total of 38 customers.  Funny how the best laid plans of a government program is no match for the simple and pure human ingenuity and economic sacrifice. 

Carmine D.

Another appliance retailer bites the dust in the current economic tsunami.  Two stores in Las Vegas closed.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-01-27/ultimate-electronics-files-for-bankruptcy-as-suppliers-curtail-shipments.html

Along with Linens-n-Things and Circuit City.

Carmine D.

I have had occasion to visit three of the six Wal-Marts in my area recently, and all of them have greatly enlarged floor care areas a double facing aisles, and one more aisle, with a improved selection of canisters. The overwhelming majority of the offerings are still bagless, but there are also more models of carpet cleaners and steamers. A big change from less than a year ago.

Trebor wrote:

Hello Trebor:

The fact that the majority of Wal*Mart vacuums are bagless is consistent with the latest move by the retailer to cull back bags, filters and belts.  Most of the new bagless models that W*M offers for sale are under $80.  Some as little at $40-$50.  Customers looking for bags, belts and filters, and not finding the particular kind they need, or seeing the high prices for these parts that are on the shelves, will opt to buy a new cheap bagless.  It's a win win for Wal*Mart.  No hassle with inventory of a plethora of vacuum parts [particularly bags] and instead a brand new bagless vacuum sale.

Carmine D. 

I concur with your conclusion, Carmine, and it means they are ripe for the plucking when the KIrby man comes to call. I rarely missed a sale when going up against  a DD/Hoover/Bissell? or Eureka

regards,

Trebor

Trebor wrote:

Hello Trebor:

So far, the latest Wal*Mart strategy is not working.  For the second year in a row, same store sales [opened one year] have declined.  Has the influx of Dirt Devil, HOOVER, and BISSELL turn away Mr. Sam Walton's loyal customers?  70 percent of Wal*Mart's clientele make $78,000 annually or less.  I suspect some of those W*M customers at the upper end of the annual wage scales don't buy into the new marketing ploys and instead head on over to the vacuum stores for the parts they need to repair/service their existing vacuums.  W*M stock dropped as did the stock market when W*M released the bad news.  Time will tell.  But clearly so far "the action alleys" as W*M likes to call its pallets of product in the aisles are not rewarding its bottom line. 

Carmine D. 

CarmineD wrote:
Costco in the UK are more or less the same. They used to sell a heck of a lot of bagged vacuums and then suddenly went cheap side with the TTi and pre TTi Dirt Devil Swift/ models under the Vax branding. A lot of them shifted but a lot of them were returned. I picked up quite a few cheapy vacuums there for clients after something, cheap and brands like AFK who are German had shockingly bad models with poor plastic and a lack of bags. Even their bagless models are total rubbish and Costco have stopped selling them. Quite surprised to see a Miele S5 Cat and Dog model last week though - maybe things are looking up. It was the only bagged vacuum available amidst bagless Chinese made cheap ones.

vacmanuk wrote:

Hello vacmanuk:

Very interesting.  This is consistent with the financial results reported by Wal*Mart this past week.  If 70 percent of W*M loyal customers have annual incomes of $78,000 [or less and I apologize for not converting into pounds or euros] then upper level income American shoppers, although in the minority, are closed out if no vacuum parts and high end vacuums are offered for sale.  Dyson tried to fill this void in W*M [plus Sam's Club] but a break down in their business relationship in 2005 stopped the dyson sales momentum.  W*M dumped dyson and took on less expensive bagless brands and models and stayed the course with them right up to now.  Dyson never was able to get a strong hold again in W*M stores.  All the spin here about dyson not caring and even better exclusive dyson models for W*M, after the reconciliation, was all wishful thinking.  Not just for W*M but other retailer chains all of which scrubbed the dyson exclusive models. 

Carmine D.

Off the Wal*Mart subject, except for tha fact that BEST BUY is using the same scaled down store size strategy, here is an article specifically about the trials and tribulations of BEST BUY stores.  Stock price down 21 percent, one of the worse performing sales for the 2010 holiday season, losing sales and profits to competitors, no longer a specialty retailer with products like Sony and Apple, savvy sales staff once its prode and joy, no longer making a diference, prices too high compared to competition, expecially amazon, on the ropes and worse yet to come.

http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/article/112269/forecast-for-best-buy-worst-yet-to-come

Carmine D.

BTW, Wal*Mart increased its dividend by 26 percent to $1.46 a share.  Paying dividends since 1974, it is like all other years an increase over the previous years' payout to stockholders.  As I said, I rarely shop there. 

Trebor wrote:
My feelings have not changed.  Walmart is not getting rid of their vacuum cleaners.  Still quite a bit available.  Why would stores have every bag, belt, etc. for every vacuum cleaner on the market?  That is bad business for them.  Leave that for the parts department of manufactuer or vacuum cleaner shops.  Take a look at Targets bags, belts, etc.

Mike_W wrote:

Latest on Walmart downsizing. Talked about on this thread and site before.  If smaller is better according to the latest management thinking then by that thinking somethings have to go/get culled and/or replaced by something else.

http://blogs.forbes.com/retailwire/2011/03/15/walmart-testing-express-c-store-concept/

Carmine D.

As I said before my shopping sprees at WM are limited to several a year for one/few inexpensive items.  I hope the women win their class suit and WM changes its ways.

"What's Old is New Again"

Walmart's creating different stores is not new to some of us.  I am old enough to remember retail stores that had different store capacities.  Rose's had different store sizes.  Grant's had different size stores.  What about Sears and Penney's.  They had their regular stores w/everything, plus very small "catalog" stores.  Sears and Penny's smaller stores were for ordering/pick up and usually had clothing.  What about Woolworth's.  Well, they created Woolco.  We also had Kresge's who created Kmart. The idea of having different size retail is not new.  Walmart is doing the same thing.

There is no need to have large stores all over the place.  I remember visiting AZ. and having to choose which Walmart to go to, because they were so close together.  Carmine has made it known that he lives in Las Vegas, Nevada.  I would suggest to anyone interested, to go to the Walmart website and click on the "store finderr" at the bottom, then enter one of the Las Vegas zip codes within a 15 mile radius.  Look at all the Walmarts in that area.  Unbelievable.  Why does everyone of them have to be the large store. They do not.  That is why some of them are those small Neighborhood Market.  

All of the stores, in my area, continue to stock plenty of vacuum cleaners, bags, filters, belts, and other floorcare.

Ironically Mike all those retailers you reference are either out of business, struggling financially and/or on the brink of going belly up.  With WM having 7 straight quarters of down sales at same stores opened, it's management is desperate.  WM's big profits traditionally are from the largest stores, not the small.  That's why WM was opening 350 Super Stores each year.  But, alas no more.  May I suggest as discussion and thought that WM will shutter its large stores in time in favor of smaller ones.  Especially in areas that are saturated, like Las Vegas.  Reason is simple.  Cut costs and expenses.   Just my opinion and observation.  But... may become reality.   At which time, if this thread is still active, I'll post so.

Carmine D.

Another major retailer may be on the bubble ready to burst:  Bed, Bath and Beyond.  It's had a bounce up due to the shuttering of Linens 'N Things in 2008 but will it last?.  BB&B may, like BEST BUY stores, be a victim of the Internet which led more shoppers to seek out lower prices at on-line stores.  Especially troublesome for BB&B whose web site has been slow to take off with only ONE percent of its company sales and ranking 154th in e-commerce.  Costs are aslo a concern.  Suppliers ship directly to their stores not warehouses and distribution centers.  Harder to cut sourcing costs. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
I am going to talk to you as Moderator now-

First, this thread was about Walmart "getting out of the belt, filter and bag business". It is not about how BB&B is doing.  We do not need to hear your periodic reports on the economy, cars, etc.  Keep on topic. 

Secondly, I am going to talk about something we have discussed before, on this forum.  Besides being off topic, you are using someone else's info and making it yours., again  I did check  and you are using an article from the Wall Street Journel Titled, "Bubble Bath & Beyond" by John Lannarone.  I have taken the liberty to underline someone else's idea, which you have used as your own.  In the one underlined sentence. you only bothered to change one or two words.

When someone comes to this forum and reads what you have said, they will think it is your idea; making you look better than you really are.  I knew better and checked it out. 

Use your own ideas and not ideas from someone else.

Mike W.
Moderator

Mike_W wrote:

I subscribe to the WSJ and have for many years.  It is even "comped" to me for my long membership.  As such, I can reuse the thoughts and ideas of those who print in the WSJ since it is in the public domain both orally and in writing.  There is no prohibition against it.  However, I do agree with Lannarone and hence the reason I excerpted his words.  In fact, the similarity with BEST BUY stores and Circuit City AND BB&B and LNT is striking, and worth repeating.  Long before Lannarone's article, I posted about the hazards of BB after the demise of CC.  When he made the same analogy, I thought it was insightful and worthy to print. 

Carmine D. 

CarmineD wrote:
Some publications do not mind reprints, etc.  What they do not want is for someone to use their words and ideas as their own, like you did.  Go ahead and ask the writer?  Ask colleges and now even high schools.

No, it is not worth repeating here.

Mike W.
Moderator

Mike_W wrote:

Like I said, I posted here FIRST about BEST BUY stores and the demise of Circuit City with the resultant jump up by BB that wouldn't last.  Lannarone made that eaxct same point in his article AFTER ME which I excerpted and printed.  He didn't ask my permission.  We're not in the educational realm where ideas and theories may be proprietary.  We're in the business world and Lannarone is promoting his ideas in the WSJ for consumption and dissemination to its readers, of which I am and have been for many years.  I make no secret about being a subscriber to Forbes, WSJ and a host of other business periodicals.  Just because I was in the vacuum business for manmy years doesn't mean I can't take a lively interest in business and economics. 

You may not think it's worth repeating.  Frankly I don't care what you think.  When a business writer foer the WSJ uses a idea/issue that I used as an analogy for his print, it gives me great personal and professional pride.  It means we're thinking along the same lines.  May not be right.  Time will tell, as it HAS WITH BEST BUY.

Carmine D.

Mike:  You got the name wrong .  It's John Jannarone not John Lannarone.  I knew when I saw and read it that it wasn't right but in the interest of quick response didn't check it.  Went back and did check.  You were wrong.   

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704101604576249152173867500.html

BTW, I oftentimes do quote the article in its entirety when I post here with the original source.  Especially if the article is long and worth the read.  I believe I have many times on thsi thread too.  This was just too short to be worth it.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Sure glad WSJ did not follow your thinking about Dyson.  For 3 or more years you said they would close the door.  You said Hoover would prevail.  Dyson is thriving and Hoover is only a name.
I was the first to tell you that you were wrong!!!!!!!!!  Please do not use my brilliant knowledge without my permission.

WTF, a quick response is no excuse for typing a name incorrectly if you ACTUALLY knew better.  I doubt that you did until you researched/

HARDSELL wrote:

Oldtimer's is setting in again, I see.  After the new DC07 pink failed miserably on my rugs, I emailed dyson in September 2006 to say its uprights would be best served with a rug height adjustment in lieu of the floating head and srubbing the clutch.  Dyson responded to me saying it would forward my suggestions to the engineering department for future consideration.  Look what's happened since.  Clutch gone.  Height adjustments on the DC28. 

A poster on this site is familiar with all the above. I forwarded my and dyson's email exchanges to him at the time.  Along with the pics of the dyson DC07 pink. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Can't get it right can you pops.  Your response has nothing to do with my comments about having better foresight than you.

Twist away. You must be screwed in the ground to your neck after all these years of twisting.

CarmineD wrote:
I think you are really puffing yourself up.  Do you honestly think you are the only one who has contacted the dyson company?  I already know of one person, who would take everything that was said on the forums and give the info to dyson.  I am sure there are others.  Plus, I am sure dyson employees have scoured the internet; in order to learn user's opinions.  Do not puff yourself up too much. 

I have some ideas, but you will not find me sending emails to dyson, other companies, or posting them here.  I will not be giving my ideas away.

CarmineD wrote: Oh no!   I got one letter wrong, in someone's name.  What shall I do?  I am not an expert.

You see Carmine, I know exactly what I said.  How do you think I knew you copied someone's writing and ideas?  I searched it and found it right?  We need to seriously contact this writer and show him what you wrote.  I think he will get a laugh.

It does not matter how long or short, you do not make yourself out to be the originator of your comment/idea.  I explained why previously.

This is not the first Carmine.  I even called someone else out for using someone's pictures, but made it sound like it was their own vacuum cleaner. Do you remember the thread?



BTW, Thanks for standing by, to correct my spelling.

Mike W.
Moderator

Mike_W wrote:

You and I are very different persons tho we share a common passion for vacuums.  I have no pride in ownership of my vacuum ideas.  I offer them freely at no cost to others.  Dyson isn't the first vacuum company.  There have been others too going back for as long as I have been in the vacuum business.  When HOOVER came from North Canton to demo its Dial to me in the early 60's, I told them the floating head [exactly what it was called then] wouldn't work on high carpets.  I was right then too.  Not surprising I was right again with dyson.  History repeats itself. 

I have even signed statements for vacuum companies that I would not try to profit if the companies used my suggestions.  I always have signed them.  Not a problem. 

When it's the truth, it's not called puffing.  That's your word for impugning me when its you who fall short in virtue.  It's called the truth.  If you recall, James Dyson and his fans argued for years [even here] against the addition of height adjustments to his vacuums.  Swearing the floating head was more practical and saying users never bothered to set them correctly anyway.  Vacuum history proves both statements are seriously wrong.  Sadly vacuum history and experience is not dyson's strong card.  So, maybe it wasn't my email that swayed his thinking and resulted in the changes I suggested.  But surely even you wouldn't argue that if enough comments like mine were received they wouldn't make the desired difference.  That's afool's argument.  Since you don't share your ideas with others, you would naturally say what you do.  I would say you are foolish in your thinking.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Again Carmine, do not puff yourself up.  You did not give this writer ideas and words.  I knew about Circuit City long before you posted it here.  It was in the news, when they first started having trouble.  It was not your prediction.  You tell the forum that you predict major appliances will be down.  Duh!  All news agencies earlier said new home sales are down and will continue to go down.  You see Carmine, they are not your predictions.  Every time the economy is bad, home sales are bad.  If people are not buying new homes, there are no new appliances to put in them.  So yes, new appliance sales are going to be down.  Whirlpool, Electrolux Group, GE,etc. will see declining sales.  It is obvious.

I am fine w/you reading whatever you want to read or subscribe to.  What you are not going to do is change the direction of this vacuum cleaner forum. You better care what I think, as a Moderator.  If you post these kinds of things, they will be deleted.

This is not up for discussion.

Mike W.
Moderator

Mike_W wrote:

Same old same old.  It's in the public domain.  It's not proprietary information.  It belongs to the readers who subscribe/read the WSJ.  Not to John Jannaronne once he publishes it.  If you contacted him, be my guest I'm sure he would laugh [at you], he would tell you that another WSJ writer RECOMMENDED BEST BUY stock in the same paper that day while he [and I] say it is overpriced just like BB&B.  See, when it comes to retail stocks and their outlooks and forecasts, there are a multitude of opinions for and against.  No one person owns the right to an opinion that is shared for others' consideration and thinking.  When they do, they charge extra to sell their opinions to investors in their own newsletters and stock pick literature.  They don't publish them in print for the WSJ. 

Carmine D.

Mike_W wrote:

There you go again.  Badge and censor threats.  Pounding your chest.  You're so predictable it's too funny. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
No Carmine, I am inventive and creative.  Look a "Procare" or someone else, who created something and had it patented.  He did not, call HOOVER and give them the idea for free.  He was being smart.  J. Dyson, or anyone else, who had a vacuum cleaner idea, did not spend hours thinking how they could make a vacuum better, then just write a company and say "Here it is for free".  I know fir a fact, James Dyson did not do that.  He wanted money for what he did.  Spend some time looking at patents.  Also read how General Electric, Westinghouse, HOOVER, etc. got started.

Mike_W wrote:

You can think what you like about who and what you are and even say so here for all to read.  I have no problem with all your grandiose opinions of yourself.  If you belief them, that's all that matters.  Just don't expect others to agree with you.  Especially me. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

CarmineD wrote:
True.  However, you need to give credit to the original writer and not be so egotistical. Try to be original Carmine.  Oops.  Bad Idea.  Your original thoughts are always biased and wrong.

Just think.  If you had any smarts we might be bowing to you rather than Sir James.  Kinda chaps your arse that you failed to reach his status doesn't it? 

HARDSELL wrote:

Well son when you were right about the LG Premalite at SEARS and called it a POS and a lemon, I gave you credit for being right and agreed with you. 

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

Not a bit.  You might feel and think that way for yourself but don't impute it to others.  I wouldn't trade places with anyone on this earth least of all him.  He can be an idiot, bowing to him just makes him an official idiot.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
You have said this before.  Sorry,  I can't remember the discussion.  Please guide us to it.

That oldtimers is setting in again.  I posted on a thread here before.  Sure you can read?

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
I can read if it is produced.  Your word that I made a statement means little since you twist the truth so much.

HARDSELL wrote:

I don't think so, or you would have seen and read already.  It's on the thread on Who makes Kenmores.  Plain as day.  Your name and post and my response.  Goes back to March/April 2008 if I recall.  Soon after the LG Premalite faded out and was no longer around at SEARS.

I enjoy responding to you here.  You give soo many opportunities to use your posts to make my points here for others to read.  Thank you.

Carmine D. 

Wal*Mart has done a 180 in an effort to reverse its lower sales percent increases for 7 straight quarters.  Looks like the inventory removed from shelves will be restored.

Enjoy:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704776304576253252673697210.html

As stated, I am not a wM shopper except on rare occasions.  But I follow retailers, even big box stores, with vacuums and vacuum parts.  And of course their financial status.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Like I have said before, Walmart is not getting rid of their floorcare, including supplies.  The article says nothing about floorcare.

Mike_W wrote:

And you were wrong when you said it.  Articles don't ALWAYS say everything.  Not enough words and room.  You have to read between the lines and use your head.  Article doesn't say fish/tanks either but those were scrubbed at many W*M stores too and we'll have to see if they are now added back.  Personal observation in concert with news articles give the complete story.  Or as I like to say, the story within the story.

Carmine D.