Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Dyson has this week released details of their end of year 2009 performance and generally paints a positive picture. Highlights include:-

• Despite the recession, global sales for the company increased 23% to 770m GBP
• Operating profits more than doubled from 90m to 190m GBP
• The Dyson Air Multiplier is a top seller in Australia; within 6 weeks, representing 64% of the market for desk fans, by value.
• In the UK and US markets, the updated 'ball' range represents more than half of the Dyson cleaners sold.
• In the UK, the company has a total market share for vacuum cleaners, by value, of 40%.
• Dyson is the market leader for vacuum cleaner sales (by value) in the UK, US, Canada, Australia, France, Belgium, Spain, Switzerland, Ireland and New Zealand.

Looking ahead, the company talks about new product launches scheduled towards the end of 2010 - a fair number of which (my speculation) are likely to continue the trend of offering a completive advantage by using digital motor technology. Ironically, a technology originally developed for use in their full-size vacuums, while all current models continue to use traditional motors.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/dyson-profits-double-thanks-to-rd-investment-1983841.html

http://www.themanufacturer.com/uk/content/10603/Dyson_cleans_up

http://www.managementtoday.co.uk/channel/Entrepreneurship/news/1006022/sales-vacuum-dyson-gadgets-cost-worth-paying/

http://www.eurekamagazine.co.uk/article/25296/Dyson-doubles-operating-profits.aspx - note: this has the statement 'The company has also confirmed plans to launch a robotic version of its bagless vacuum cleaner' - dunno if that's significant, but I haven't seen it reported elsewhere.

M00seUK wrote:

At one time [2005/6] dyson boasted 43 percent of the new vacuum market share in the UK by units.  Things have changed.

Excerpted from the article verbatim:

"The company employs 2,500 people worldwide, exports to 49 countries and is the market leader in Dyson in the UK, US, Canada, Australia, France, Belgium, Spain, Switzerland, Ireland and New Zealand."

What does it really mean?  It doesn't say anything.

It doesn't say "vacuum cleaner sales [by value] " M00seUK.  You added that in your bullet with the parens.  A little editorial license, perhaps?

Here's a quote you missed:

"But there were also some blind alleys once the company had become a worldwide success. In 2000, Dyson launched the world's first "dual drum, counter rotating" washing machine. But consumers' response was lukewarm and after three, unprofitable, models, the lines were discontinued. Meanwhile, Dyson's first robotic vacuum cleaner never made it beyond the trial stage. Billed as "the vacuum cleaning system of the future", the DC06 was too heavy and too expensive for production without further development."

Didn't Sir James credit sales of the contra rotating washers at 5000 units in 2004 before he pulled off the market.  But sales authorities and industry reporters could only account legitimately for 1900.  Sales puffing?

BTW, how many fans are sold in Australia starting in October for the next 6 weeks?  It's June now.  Who cares what the sales are in the autumn into winter season.  Like marketing fans in the USA in March.  It's still winter.  Fans don't sell in the USA until summer season unless they are a novelty and the rich with more money than sense just have to be the first to get one.  Tell us what the dyson fan sales are at the end of the summer season compared with the competition.  Then, I'm all ears.

I love your enthusiasm.  With words and unaudited numbers, actual and slightly embellished, you and Sir James can paint a lovely picture in a post and/or a soundbite.  I should add all companies paint a rosy picture right up until the time it goes belly up.  I'm not saying dyson is.  I'm saying its ALL hype.  I recall Money magazine made Global Crossing one of its top ten stock pics of the year for 2005 in its January edition.  In the spring the company went belly up, bankrupt, dissolved.  Not the only one either. 

A question for you and our UK posters.  You have told us many times in the past that dyson, as a privately owned company, doesn't have to report financial results until Nov 2010 for 2009.  That has been its past practice too for reporting.  So why is dyson doing so now so early?  Answer that, please.

Carmine D.

M00seUK wrote:
Thanks for the post!  Did you see the [viral] Air Multiplier balloon video?  http://www.youtube.com/user/DysonFilmsUS

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Well...hi Dib....kinda missed you......so glad you could join us.

Not the same without your input.....glad your back.

turtle

CarmineD wrote:

DysonInventsBig wrote:

I have indeed  - it was written up here:-
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2991620/Dyson-fan-vid-is-a-YouTube-hit.html

As of writing, 282,438 views within 6 days on YouTube - impresive. At 01:20 you can see that something in the lab on the left-hand side, that has been pixelated out

So, they got the engineers to play around for a few days, filmed the result and achieved reach that might have cost a good million dollars by traditional means.

It's 'just a fan' but seemingly a fan you can generate a fair amount of public interest in. Strange world.

Oreck and Bissell both increased their share of the vacuum market in 2009, due in large measure to advertising.

Thanks M00seUK for responding much as I would expect you to.  You never let me down.

I'm not sure I've responded every 6 months on dysons faltering sales in the US save to say that the insiders I know at the BEST BUY store that sells the most dyson product on the east coast since it launched in the spring of 2002 keeps me posted on the latest with dyson's sales.  They have been declining year over year at his store since the last quarter of 2006 giving up ground to all the competition both bagged and bagless.

BTW, my thoughts on the early release of dyson financial results are slightly differnt than yours.  Is there is a big retail deal going down soon maybe the biggest to come the UK way in years?  Does Sir James Dyson have an ulterior motive for patting himself on the back early and often now in contrast to years past when he filed yearly results 10 months after the close of the year?

Or perhap a more ominous reason? 

Carmine D. 

retardturtle1 wrote:
Retardturtle,

Thank you.  Did I read somewhere on here where you spoke of a pre-production Oreck Bagless?  Do you know what method is used to filter the fine dust?

Dyson Invents Big

"BTW, how many fans are sold in Australia starting in October for the next 6 weeks?  It's June now.  Who cares what the sales are in the autumn into winter season.  Like marketing fans in the USA in March.  It's still winter.  Fans don't sell in the USA until summer season unless they are a novelty and the rich with more money than sense just have to be the first to get one.  Tell us what the dyson fan sales are at the end of the summer season compared with the competition.  Then, I'm all ears."  [Carmine D wrote]

"I don't fully understand all your points here - your question needs a little rephrasing.
As I recall, the Dyson fan originally went on sale October 2009, which was the start of the summer season in Australia. In the UK market, I'd agree they they're more of a novelty, a status-symbol item, than representing fantastic value for money. But it hasn't stopped the likes of Bugatti from having a viable business in a similar low unit, high margin vain." [M00seuk wrote]

Hello M00seUK:

Recall is a funny thing isn't it?  Like editorial liberty.  With words you can say and mean anything you want.  But according to facts, October is no more the start of summer in Australia than March is the start of summer for the USA, the months dyson fans apparently are reported by dyson to sell so well in these countries.  Of course, it depends on what you mean by start.........

For clarification: Like all countries in the southern hemisphere (the hemisphere south of the Equator), Australia's seasons follow the sequence:

• Summer: December to February
• Autumn: March to May
• Winter: June to August
• Spring: September to November

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
You're referering to the Carphone Warehouse / Best Buy US joint venture 'Best Buy Europe' which is rolling out in the UK at the moment? As a consumer, I look forward to the prospect, as up until this move there's been very little real competition in the market.

As a key supplier, it is doubtlessly a discussion point for people at Dyson. In the UK particularly, the out-of-town retail store is where most people buy vacuums and Dyson often pay big money to secure premium space in these locations.

If it will effect Dyson's margins / selling price is to be seen. Long-term Best Buy require Dyson sales to be successful and vice versa - so long as the products are seen to be in demand. 350 new R&D positions and a rumoured modular kitchenware appliance line would certainly help in this regard.

That's not the one I was referring to [tho that's a good reason].  Isn't Wal*Mart [in UK Asda] expected to buy a host of retailer neighborhood stores and expand big time into the UK retail market?  The strategy goes against the grain that out-of-town super stores make up most of the British business.  193 small central store locations in the UK mirrors the same retail market strategy W*M has been following in the USA. 

BTW, what's the weather like there?  Here in the USA, the Memorial Day weekend is the unofficial start of summer even tho on the lunar calendar summer doesn't officially start until June 20.  100 degrees here in Las Vegas [that would be fahrenheit degrees not celsius don't want to confuse our readers across the pond].

Carmine D. 

I haven't heard a great personally on the topic, but Wal*Mart could well be planning a shake up the market. In the last 10 years their ownership under the Asda brand has been steady, if not overly spectacular. Tesco still provides formidable competition in the sector. There's been 25 large format 'Supercentres' stores built, which have livery under the Asda / Wal*Mart brand. The company's compulsory use of the Asda brand ends soon and I think it's highly likely they'll re-brand all the stores as Wal*Mart.

I guess you're referring to the recent Asda takeover in the UK of 193 small format Danish-owned 'Netto' stores? I don't think anyone knows what might be earmarked for these locations, but it's feasible that some might specialise in electrical appliance sales.

A lot of people these days do research and get recommendations on purchases via the internet. I personally don't visit out-of-town electrical retailers to get good advice - you typically won't get it. I used to work in a specialist, non-electrical out-of-town retailer. I was keen and put a number of years in to the job, but still my knowledge was patchy in many product areas.

Although the Best Buy stores are promising to improve customer service, when I go to a store, I want the opportunity to play / measure the product and take it home the same day. There's a lot of potential for a retailer the offers this service, without the frills, with a price that's comparable to on-line sales.

If they're used as local grocery stores, they could find a place in the market. I haven't driven a car in a number of years, due to a vision problem and I'm frequently dismayed at how a lot of sociality these days is built around everyone owning a car.

Weather is fairly changeable at the moment. Quite warm on Sunday - but with the rain today, no requirement for a bladeless desk fan ;-)

That's the one. 

Tesco PLC has about 30 percent of the UK retail market and is the leader.  Asda [Wal*Mart] holds 17 percent before the purchase of Netto [Wales].   In the UK Asda trails rivals Tesco and J. Sainsbury PLC in expanding into new smaller store formats. In recent years these retailers have opened scores of small markets and convenience stores in town centers and busy residential areas to benefit from a broad change in shopping habits: Shoppers many of themaging or living in small households prefer to shop frequently and conveniently rather than driving to an out-of-town location.

Asds's efforts to catch up have been hampered by Britain's tight zoning regs which make it tough to open new stores. The retailer operates mostly superstores and super centers which average 46,500 to 85,000 sq feet.  So far Asda has 25 stores at 8,000 sq feet.  The Netto deal will strengthen its retail business giving Asda a greater mix of store sizes and expand into new neighborhoods. Cost of the Netto deal is $1.12 BILLION or 778 MILLION pounds.

Wal*Mart is the world's retail leader by annual sales generating 25 percent of annual sales outside the US.  International stores are the fastest growing part of its business. Asda approached Nett about 3 months ago.  It's Wal*Mart's first major purchase in Europe in 12 years.  UK Office of Fair Trading has to approve and stores should be converted by SUMMER mid 2011. 

Did I miss anything?  Please feel free to fill in the gaps.

Now on the more ominous views for dyson's early release of financial results.  Sir James is no dummy.  He's reading the international political and economic tea leaves.  The B-P mess in the Mexico gulf will have major USA and UK back lashes in the very near and far off into the distant future.  He's trying to get a jump on the bad economic environment that will inevitably cause a major trade schism between the US and Europe [as a result of the euro] and the pound and UK due to BP.  It will get very very very ugly.  Some in the US are already talking about a US federal government takeover of BP.  What did it earn last year?  $20 BILLION. 

Dyson boasted that 2/3 of its vacuum market was the USA [2005/2006].  Tho the latest barrage of dyson PR that you posted doesn't make this claim anymore.  It has been dropping as I said since the last quarter of 2007 if my BEST BUY sources are correct.  With the BP mess, it's only bound to get worse.

Carmine D.

PS: These BB sources had it right on the scrubbing of the DC11 by dyson and the fall in price of $100 on the DC15 within months of its USA launch.  Both facts I posted about here and was heckled for right up until the time they came to fruition.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Hi DIB

I commented /inquired about it.....i know nothing really beyond that. Out of curiousity id like to see it along with the other new oreck.

Will it outclean carpets better than a sanit-comm......that id have to see.

Kinda off topic...sorta....Acouple years ago a customer said she put pantyhose material around the shroud of a dyson 7....and said it kept things clean/cleanr in the cyclones and filter...that perf wasnt affected as long as you dumped daily w/some taps to the bin ....never saw it /but she did all her own service.....wonder howd that work on the shroud....or some type of thin filter media....? just thinking out loud.....

turtle

retardturtle1 wrote:
Hoover UK had clear dust bags / sort of plastic sandwich food bags that were supposed to be used an optional cost extra to catch the dust out of their Cyclean/Cyclone/Vortex/Whirlwind bagless cyclonic uprights in the year 2000. Sort of like bin liners that fitted the bin. They didn't catch on though and Hoover UK stopped selling the bags.

Just got my July 2010 Consumer Reports in the mail.  there is a review of the Dyson Air-multiplier fan on page 9.  Also compared it so several fans ranging in price from $17 to $35.

retardturtle1 wrote:
Retardturtle,

Sounds like something my mom would do (use a nylon thinking somehow this was a benefit when in reality it’s more trouble than it’s worth).  The Dyson shrouds are the most imitated, I’d assume this means they are ‘best in class.’  The fly screen had been used by Euro Pro and the newer Fantom, but it’s a choke point and forces the user to maintain (get dusty).  Not good.  If hair makes it past the shroud then perhaps she was filling to high or airflow is interrupted (often).

Dishonest Dave Oreck loves demonstrating that it's impossible (for him and his team) to empty a bagless without getting dust everywhere and in ones lungs.  Dyson sued him twice over this falsehood.  Now Dishonest is going bagless - too funny. 


Dyson Invents Big

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Oreck has had bagless floorcare products for decades.  Most recently a compact size canister.  Dave never said bagless vacuums would be a collector's item in time to come.  I recall in print your hero said that about vacuum paper bags in 2006.  Dishonest dyson or just dumb dyson.

Carmine D.

Severus wrote:

Thanks SEVERUS.  Nice to see that CR had the sense to review at the start of the summer season [Memorial Day]. 

Carmine D.

M00seUK wrote:

Thought you might like to read the latest on bugatti from the NY Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/23/automobiles/collectibles/23BUGATTI.html?ex=1290484800&en=f4858c8bf631e842&ei=5087&WT.mc_id=AU-D-I-NYT-MOD-MOD-M151-ROS-0610-HDR&WT.mc_ev=click

Like collectible vacuums or more like dyson's comment on paper bags.  The only perceived truth is in the heads of the sayer.

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

dib,

Companies sue each other all the time.  How were the lawsuits resolved?  Please provide a link to the story of the rulings if possible.  David Oreck is a very smart man.  He also knows that it's important to protect his reputation.  He doesn't just say that bagless vacuums are messy, he demonstrates it with videos.   In a table comparing bagless to his bagged vacuums, he does use the phrase "bagless - may be messy to empty."  

I'm not sure how the lawsuit was resolved, but several videos are still on the oreck web site depicting the messiness of emptying a Dyson DC14:   www.oreck.com/upright-vacuum-cleaners/oreckxlultra_vs_bagless.cfm. 

I have no idea what led me to go window shopping this moring but in the process of making the rounds I finally got to see the "bladeless" fan on a shelf at BestBuy for $299..  Best yet, it was even plugged in.  Is it is cute?  Heck yeah!  Could I use one . . . . well . . . well . . . no!

But fortunately, just down the aisle what did I see that could change my life -- an 8,000 BTU Frigidaire air conditioner FOR JUST $199.  If I want to I can add another $60 and get coverage for in-home repair or replacement through BestBuy for the next four years.  I'm but lowly and plebian but the deal rings sweet in my ear and I swoon . . .

Moving on to vacuums -- Dyson should be beefing about the awful manner in which BestBuy allows vacuums to be used for demo and store maintenance and then returned to the shelve for display without emptying or cleaning up.  It is not helpful as far as turning on a possible buyer is concerned.  I of course have been informed that BEstBuy does not promote this kind of use for saleable stock but it appears, alas, alas, word hasn't reached my branch.

Despite the dirty, dusty (and scratched-up) state that this branch of BestBuy had set out its demo model of the DC28 in, I was able to immediately appreciate the thing that makes it a winner.  The brushroll.  The bristle tufting is set more tightly together and the "drum" is larger.   For all his far flung ideas, Jimmy D finally got something right.

Venson

Venson wrote:

Saw the fan at target....no way on this earth is it worth the cost..period.

a/c....so worth the cost my friend....years of relaxating enjoyment....money well spent as i would die and fall out without my a/c.....my youth  is to blame ive been told...? the ext warrty...in your situation is worth it...id be all over it . the security is worth it.

The 28s roller would be an after-market gift to the 7.....that and the clutch system....get rid of i say and install an aftermarket roller like the 28 and you have a beast in waiting...problem solved...and one im surprised hasnt been addressed...due to the issues at hand.

turtle

retardturtle1 wrote:

As a fan, the Dyson air multiplier is way overpriced - by several hundred dollars.  However, as a status symbol and piece of art, it's "priceless."  

Severus wrote:

A collector's item. 

Carmine D. 

CarmineD wrote:
Although I won't be buying one at the current pricing, I would consider one if the price dropped to say $50.  The danger to Dyson is that by gouging consumers on the fan, consumers might do the math and conclude that vacuums are overpriced by a similar factor.  Just to be generous, suppose that with it's novelty that the fan is worth $100:  then the fan is overpriced by a factor of 3.5.   A consumer might conclude that the vacuums are also overpriced by a factor of 3.5. 

Severus wrote:

Hi Severus,

Thinking along the lines of novelty as regards appliance buys we could well live without, the price of the Dyson fan should at best, have been a hundred dollars as you've mentioned to make it attractive to the American public.  I think that proves even more true if Dyson distributoors are going to send them to not necessarily high-end shopping venues like BestBuy, Target and Wal-Mart.  People shopping at these places are not going to them to find out how much they can spend.  They're looking to see how much they won't have to spend.

I'd expect to see a desktop fan at the present $300 price at Sharper Image, Hammacher Schlemmer or even Bed, Bath & Beyond.

Breville -- a rather pricey maker of kitchen appliances -- commands higher than usual prices but a very large part of its product is made of cast metal and has some semblance of being "heavy duty."

By the way, does anyone know how you go about cleaning one these fans periodically?  Desktop fans with exposed blades collect dust but can usually be easily dissasembled for cleaning.  I've done it many times.

The perforations allowing the entry of air around the middle of the base of the Dyson fan can be wiped clean externally and without problem but how do you get at the "impeller" to clean it and does the ring come apart for cleaning as well?

As for vacuum pricing in general, it's been way over actual cost for a long time.  Even more annoying in the pondering of it is the fact that most of what's offered is neither being made at home nor are most of the workers producing the product getting near what we'd consider a living wage.

Venson

As for Dyson a HUGE amount of the cost is for Advertising. It's not in dealer margin that's for sure.

Lucky1 wrote:

I would agree with this several years ago.  More recent years, I have not seen any dyson/Sir James advertising anywhere.  Not on TV, at least not here in the US, no US magazines, notta.  Maybe Sir James is concentrating on the UK home front or stock piling the funds he raided from Retained Earnings several years ago.  Perhaps dyson is sinking in R&D with all the new planned/pipelined products.  Haven't seen anything new yet in vacuums, the white edition of the ball model doesn't count.  Still same old same old DC25.  Last new vacuum is the DC28 in upright and DC23 in cann now going on a year and two young. 

Carmine D.

I agree Carmine. Even in the UK, Dyson products aren't normally being advertised in the press, only on TV during programmes and often late on rather than evening time when the family sit down to dinner. Dyson doesn't need advertising anymore anyway - they've already established their name and what they do. At least Dyson are doing advertising in the UK though; the last time I saw a UK Hoover advert it must have been in the 1980s for the Turbomaster and then 1990s for their Turbopower 2/3 Permabag:

Turbomaster: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xp8KqoSVHME

Turbopower 1000: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzcR6qzBJ_4

The U.S has at least a lot more advertising in the Hoover product ranges.

We still get a bit of Dyson Advertising in the NYC Metro area, probably because of demographics I would guess. Shark and their crap has by far the biggest visibility. Bissell, while not advertising often, does tend to buy some premium spots at big event TV programs. I see some electrolux (mostly appliance) and minimal Hoover or DD.

CarmineD wrote:

Hi Carmine .....unique it is. will no doubt sell at high end venues.

The display at target i noticed had no other fan on[running] or near it.But a $15 fan down a bit from it puts out the same airflow ...so its more a piece of working art that can be used but not one thats practical for the avg. person in a home where they need and use a fan/s as a suppliment to the a/c....as in our case for example...in an office it would look nice..a nice office that is, so that they would complement eachother.

As with the radiance i was gifted.....beautiful it is, but so not worth the money in my personal use view. Elegent and powerful and oh so heavy. An 8925 or pansc585...cleans and grooms just as well for a third to half the cost.....not as pretty to look at...but nice deep cleaners.

turtle

Lucky1 wrote:

Same here..guess its an east coast thing....but have been seeing alot of the swivel sweeper over the past couple weeks..guess cause its summer and all the kiddies are home....i figured id see more across the board from all the vac names.

turtle

The Air Multiplier fan offers dyson/Sir James an excellent opportunity to flaunt the inventor and company's latest in its household wizardry.  Coupled with the summer season [in the USA].  Notta yet.  Perhaps soon?  Lest the risk that SEVERUS and Venson cogently illustrate.  Consumers, especially during a prolonged period of unemployment nationwide of 10 percent, may view a 10 inch fan for $300 as exorbitantly priced.  Giving suspicion to the fact that perhaps the company's vacuums are too. 

Historically here in Las Vegas, the last dyson/Sir James TV ads here in the silver state were the ball dysons.  Several years young now and counting.  Nothing since.  The TV clips were concurrent with the beginnings of the perception that the USA and globally the economies were headed into an uncertain and unchartered difficult course.

HOOVER, since vacmanuk mentions, last advertised with a flurry and frenzy for the Platinum collection.  Both TV and magazines. HOOVER walked the red carpet with the Oscar stars for the Paltinum collection. 

ORECK, a favorite of a particular poster here, is still going strong with advertising on TV, newspapers etc.  No let up.  Trebor and Procare correctly point out that ORECK has increased market share in 2009 and poised to do likewise 2010.  Ask myself/yourself why the difference?  Why does ORECK stay the course with advertising while others fade?  Especially if we are to believe the ORECK detractors here who claim it offers the same 40 year old products and market strategies while others boast the industry's latest and greatest. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
I try to keep an open mind about pricing. I have to price up products for my own business - adding value and working out how much the market will take.

For the Dyson Fan At 300 USD, there's certainly a big margin between the combined component, assembly and shipping costs and the selling price. Clearly, Dyson's research and general overheads need to be factored in but, could we say that the product would still have a reasonable sales margin for all involved, if it retailed at 100 USD? In which case, Dyson would need to ask - "could we shift at least 4x as many units at this lower price point?"

However, it's not even as straight-forward as that. In selling 4x or more units they'd need have invested in a much larger manufacturing capacity and have well stocked local warehouses - with all the financial risk which that involves. They need to protect against underestimating the public demand, selling out on the first day, making eager buyers wait 3 months for stocks to be replenished, while missing out on 2/3rds of the revenue and all the publicity generated by the launch. Particularly with a highly seasonal line like this, you wouldn't get another good bite of the cherry until the following year.

If the product was say priced at 200 USD and still performing well above average, typically selling out in less than a week and making levels at the central warehouses go critically low, what options do you have to stabilse stock holding and capitalise on the unexpected popularly? Put the price up to 300 USD? You have a unique, patented product - technically, you have no direct competition and yes, you can do this. However, it would be a very unpopular move, with both retailers and the public alike.

The preferred option is to price as high as you think the market will take and keep a close eye on the initial sales figures. If demand is in check with supply, stay as you are. Once manufacturing / stock levels have stabilised and demand has started to fall, you can then stimulate sales with steady prices cuts and look to reach the next level of buyer.

Retailers can promote with offers like '33% off - was 300 USD, now 200' and in the buyer's mind they're getting 300 USD worth of product, with an extra 100 USD in their pocket. The price might go down to 100 USD eventually, by which time you've introduced a new, improved product and can sell both side by side - the latest high-tech product at an 'entry-level' and 'premium' price whilst continuing to get combined margins that eclipse the competition.

M00seUK wrote:

Hi M00seUK,

I don't see that need of a desktop fan requires all the  over-build here or the hked up price.  Yet, I also believe that if you want to sell one and then sell more in worthwhile amounts, consider what it actually is and price it accordingly. There is nothing about this fan that in the least way convinces me that it costs more than ten or twelve American dollars each to mass produce and box up for shipping.

There are venues that we refer to as schlock-shops here in the U.S.  They sell usable goods but none of great speciality or great price. We usually head for "better" stores for the fancy stuff and are more susceptible to influence by way of the type of store to pay more for what we might readily buy for less elswhere.  If, per your feeling, high volume sales may not be of issue and the possibility of this machine's speciality is intentionally being posed to justify price then I think the purposes of all involved are better served by placing the fan in high-end stores like Neiman-Marcus, Bloomingdalse or even Macy's where people with the wherewithal to drop a few hundred bucks on small items are far more likely to be found.

Where is the logic in placing a $300 fan in venues where entire air conditioners are selling at two-thirds the price and far more powerful fans sitting right besided it can be had for one-tenth the price?  Selling speciality items has not only to do with the product itself being sold but where you place it for sale. Presentation means a lot.

Target and Wal-Mart could carry the very same stuff as Tiffany and Company but to what end?  The quality of jewelry sold at Costco is not the same as at a high-end vendor and most people who happen to make a purhcase there do not have the same expectations or make the same execeptions in regard to price as they would if, as an example, they walk into Harry Winston's.

If I walk into an everyday venue, as needed and with no particular urgency of purchase involved, I'm already programmed to think forty bucks or so for a desk fan or blender, maybe $300- 350 for a vacuum cleaner, maybe four to six hundred bucks it there's a good sale on TVs.  That is not written in stone as like everyone else I'm willing to go higher if I see product that appears to genuinely merit its price.  Nonetheless, I don't think that reflects my thinking alone and I don't think it aids Dyson much.

If Dyson's belief is that people everywhere are going to love the fan so much that they'll drop $300 wherever they happen to see it I think they need to think again.

Best,

Venson

Hello M00seUK:

I would agree partially and possibly with some of your arguments IF dyson fans were a year round seller like vacuums with peaks and troughs for consumer demands. 

Certainly this is not the case with fans.  Fans are a seasonal seller.  The sales market is at most 30-60 days during the summer season. For example, in Las Vegas, May & June would be the peak months for fan sales with falling off demand in July and August [clearance for clearing shelves for back to school items which tends to be the peak sales season second to Thanksgiving-Christmas-New Year's]. 

All the arguments about stocking shelves with accurate product quantities, shipping trends and costs to tweak warehouse inventories/supplies are moot points for fans.  3 months is the sales season every year barring unforeseen and prolonged Indian Summers.  Tops is 4 months even in the hottest of climates in the USA like Las Vegas.  After that time, it's a done sales deal and the item disappears until the next year's summer season.  Which to my way of thinking makes advertising the Air Multiplier more critical and relevant now rather than later in the USA.  Although it's been for sale since March, and as you say, and if we believe you, is a unique product without competition, it means $300 10 inch fans are more likely a candidate for an advertising media blitz.  Yet, so far at least, nothing done to put the latest and greatest in front of the US buying market.  Who, if we are to taken in by your points, would be running to the stores in unprecedented numbers at this very moment to buy up all the inventory $100-$200 dyson 10 inch fans.   Not in the throes of the worse Recession since the Great Depression of the 1930's in the USA.  With 5 percent of the homes in the US in foreclosure, 11 percent in arrears, and 10 nationwide unemployment.  I know its even worse on your side of the pond. 

Carmine D.

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson:

Agree.  To my way of thinking, dyson/Sir James in good times and bad, can't decide if it should market itself as a niche seller or mainstream seller.  As with vacuums, its mainstay, dyson is and always will be, if its existing brand remains unchanged, a niche market and products company.  Based on the products and prices.  True to its form and content, dyson fans are no different than its vacuums.  [Making SEVERUS' point that consumers associate overprice of its fans with overprice of its vacuums a real risk for advertising].  Dyson fans are very much in the same vein as its vacuums.  Niche sellers.  Period, end of discussion.  From both a product and price perspective.  On this point alone, if there is agreement, all M00seUK's fan points above fall apart.  While they may sound convincing in a Forum post/company sound bite, they are all moot.  Contrarily, your points about dyson, its products, and the current state of consumers' spending, are right on the money.

Carmine D.

Hi,

I haven't shopped at Macy's in years.  Lots of nice stuff that I can get elsewhere for less. At one point in time it had its own charge card but I don't know if the like is still in existence.  Posessing a Macy's charge card was sometimes an some an excuse not to shop around.  Guess they carried your balance longer than most.

In any event check out -- http://www1.macys.com/search/index.ognc?SearchTarget=*&Keyword=dyson

The prices on Dyson vacuums and acoutrements are way up there but I don't think anyone's complaining 'cause it's Macy's.  However, I did not find the Dyson fan.  The site offers no desk top fan at higher than 90 bucks.

Hammacher-Schlemmer, a great place for those with flights of fancy, does have the bladeless fan along with a variety of other brands and models.  Among them HS lists a $40 model as the best desktop fan.

http://www.hammacher.com/Search/Default.aspx?query=fan

Bed, Bath and Beyond is offering the DDyson fan in two colors --

http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/SearchSKU.asp?order_num=-1&&LIMIT=0&COLOR=0&RNT=0&BTSmode=false&BRAND=162&BRND=0&RN=&IPPsearch=72

Though I thought the fan would be a sure-shot for Sharper image and Nieman-Marcus it appears to be in neither's listings.

Venson

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson:

Interesting findings.  Thank you.

• Macy's carries dyson vacuums BUT not the Air Multiplier.  Raises questions.
• H/S carries Air Multiplier BUT not dyson vacuums. Understandable.
• BB&B carries dyson vacuums and Air Multiplier.  As would be expected.
• Sharper Image and NM both don't carry vacuums and no Air Multiplier.  Understandable for vacuums.  Raises questions for Air Multiplier absence. 

Not sure what the implications and conclusions are other than those already discussed above.  I certainly can see the retailers which carry dyson vacuums also carrying the Air Multipliers too.  Why?  I suspect, regardless of all the posts above, that dyson would encourage its current retailers to accept and sell the Air Multipliers at no risk.  How?  At the end of the summer season, the unsold dyson fans could be returned for dyson credit toward other merchandise like vacuums. 

You're absolutely right.  Sharper Image and Nieman Marcus are ideal retailers for dyson's Air Multiplier.  If I can read the tea leaves on the conspicious absence of dyson's fans at these retailers I'd say both don't think much of the item/pricing and/or both.  Here's where advertising and media blitz campaigns are useful for dyson's Air Multiplier.  If consumers see it and it attracts their interest, as you said, customers of Macy's, H-S, and N-M would probably inquire and possibly the stores would be more likely to carry and sell them.  I suppose the dyson media people would say their target market would see Air Multipliers on YouTube and facebook.  That might be true.  But, realistically the old rich are more likely to be customers of retailers like Macy's and Neiman Marcus and more likely to buy there if at all. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote June 1, 2010:

It's beginning to happen.  June 10, 2010.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Add-on sales are always important in retail, allowing you to pitch further products after the buyer has made their decision on the main purchase. Dyson and the retailer could get great millage here by offering the Air Multiplier at a discounted price, when brought at the same time as a Dyson vacuum cleaner. Given the large sales margin on the Air Multiplier product, this could be an effective way to promote both lines whilst gaining increased revenue per customer.

Nah, Dyson should offer free accessories with the fan like different rings to colour match your room of desired use.

IM told that there's going to be news released very soon from DYSON.

vacmanuk wrote:

Hi vacuumanuk,

If its the following, well  . . . http://www.dyson.com/store/fans.asp

There's now a twelve-incher, a "tower" and a pedastal model.  If "Build a better mouse trap and the world will beat a path to your door," is true -- I wish they'd make mouse traps.

Venson

Does anyone know and care to update here what ever became of the new range of stylish lights that were intro'ed by Sir Jame's son awhile back?  I believe it was M00seUK who first posted about them here.  Any news to update?

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Hi Carmine,

Haven't got a clue as to how well they're doing but they're around. http://www.conranusa.com/productdetails.aspx?cid=Table&language=en-US&pid=MLFBLUE  (Get out the smelling salts before you look at the price.)

Oh yeah -- and then they wrote . . . http://www.conranusa.com/productlist.aspx?cid=Wall&language=en-US

The hot new thing as far as lighting goes, I think, is LED bulbs.  Some vacuum makers are using them as headlights for uprights and P/Ns  but they are also appearing on the shelf in places like Home Depot.  Though about $25 a pop, they can offer light equal to standard incandescent and flourescent screw-in bulbs but run with even lower electrical draw.  I'm just waiting for a tad of mad money and all of the flourescent curlie-cue bulbs I've been using will be out of here.

Dyson doesn't appear to be either in the energy saving or money-saving vein.

Venson

Venson wrote:

Thanks Venson.  I was curious to know if these gems were still around and what the prices have become.  I guess I missed my Wife's Mother's Day opportunity for this mood setting, ambiance inspiring, environmental lighting.  HAve to wait for her birthday/Anniversary.  I never knew lights were so fascinating and interesting.  I can only imagine what my dear Wife would say if I presented to her as a gift and she learned the price.  She'd beat me over the head with it to knock sense into me. 

BTW,she doesn't care for curlie-cue lights but I have to say almost 4 years and counting.  I bought an extra supply to use and they are still wrapped and stored.  My Wife has been stockpiling the standard types.  No doubt she's waiting to replace the curlie-cues at the first possible opportunity she gets.

LED's are great addition to vacuums.  I'm a huge fan.

Carmine D.

It seems that Dyson still have the ability to surprise. We already knew that they were working on a pedestal-mounted version, but these two designs are very creative variants of the original concept. I wonder if they support Kensington lock devices? If they don't have a easy way of securing them I wouldn't like to be a facilities manager, looking after them in a workplace.

Having a remote control makes them much more compatible with portable A/C units which often have the same feature. Purchase price for both is similar. The energy efficiency / cooling of the Dyson models would be very competitive - but for very warm, enclosed spaces, the high-end ability of an A/C unit would be more effective. The Dyson 'fans' certainly create a better-looking home / working environment than using portable A/C units.

James Dyson is due to be on The Late Late show with Craig Ferguson this Thursday (24 May 2010). 'Sounds like it'll be a general chat type-affair, with the opportunity to promote these new fan models to the masses.

This will be the "hot" or as it were, cool news. Here was me thinking Dyson were going to launch yet another vacuum cleaner.

Thought I'd share this email that dyson sent to me:

 

	Our new Dyson Air Multiplier™ tower and pedestal fans are coming soon. They’re designed for larger spaces, so airflow is smooth across the whole room - without the chop-chop-chop of conventional fans.   No blades means no grilles, so they're easier to clean. Power is precisely adjustable using a dimmer switch. There's also a remote control – it's curved and magnetized to store neatly on top.   The new fans will be exclusive to Dyson.com and select design stores in a few weeks. Click below if you'd like us to get in touch when you can buy yours.
	Can't say I'd buy/own one but have to give Sir James credit for perseverence. Carmine D.

A PS on the Jake Dyson Motorlight product line.  No mention of dyson as the brand name and even the use of Jake's name [his son] has no connection with dyson vacuums.  Interesting?  I recall SEVERUS mentioning that association of the AirMultiplier fans with dyson/vacuums could have a negative impact on past and future vacuum customers who may perceive the fans, and consequently the vacuums, as not just premium but overpriced.

If I recall correctly the lights have a 2-3 week waiting period.  Can it be that they are so much in demand that stores can't keep them stocked?  Or just the opposite, so little demand, stores don't keep them stocked.  Guess you can make the argument both ways depending on your perspective.

Carmine D.

A good review here of the Dyson Air Multiplier:-
http://www.reghardware.com/2010/06/23/review_gadgets_dyson_air_multiplier/

“...while in theory this sounds an improvement, I actually found it made the experience oddly artificial. I prefer the in-yer-face feeling of a wind turbine - this is more like an aircon. The airflow is more uniform from a distance, but when you're up close, it’s like you’re in some breezy vortex tunnel of wind.”

“...the Dyson has a smooth dial control for airflow which enables an output of almost unnoticeable - but still cooling - amounts. It works wonders at such a level and for those looking for a subtle breeze to take the edge off things, it's perfect.”

“Aesthetically, it's miles ahead of a traditional fan. Feature wise it's one of the best I’ve used. While the higher pitched output is annoying, the biggest thing letting this bad boy down is the price.”

I agree; get the price down to a more ‘everyday’ value and it would likely be very popular. I understand the reasons for offering premium pricing at the outset, but it looks like it might be a year or two before the average person can buy it on price, with a clear conscience.

Latest offer from dyson rec'd by email.  Not surprising since most dyson retailers have been offering the same already.

Carmine D.

As someone who is interested in Dyson technology, we wanted to let you know about our latest offer. Select machines now come with three free tools to remove dust and allergens around the home. Until July 6, 2010. Soft dusting brush Keeps delicate surfaces dust-free. Mattress tool Removes dust and dirt from mattresses and upholstery. Flexi crevice tool Cleans awkward gaps and spaces. Asthma and Allergy kit MSRP $69.99 All Dyson uprights and canisters are certified asthma & allergy friendly™ by the Asthma and Allergy Foundation of America.

vacmanuk wrote:

If dyson doesn't surprise with a new vacuum product before the end of this year, it will be the first year since its launch in the USA [2002] that it has not added at least one new vacuum to its lineup.  Making one think that the current lineup with some exceptions, like the DC14 and DC16 and perhaps a spinoff or 2 or 3 like the all white DC25 ball, are the mainstay of its future product lineup.  Yet dyson reports more new hires, better profit [we're told] than the years before, a new non-vacuum CEO in charge of day-to day operations, all good things.  But no new vacuum products? 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
We will have to wait and see. It's likely that if they *are* looking to launch kichenware products in time for the Christmas market, that a lot of their resources; marketing, certification, logistics that will be allocated towards this. It would perhaps be less important to them than minor improvements / new models in their vacuum range.

By the way, I was speaking to somebody at the weekend who works in healthcare. Apparently, the Dyson AirBlade hand drier is still not widely used in hospitals as it hasn't been pased for infection control - I presume this is currently the domain of fabric and paper towels?

M00seUK wrote:

Hi M00seUK,

It may be too pricey to be practical.  And if were talking use by hospital staff  . . .

Infections picked up during hospital stays are high here in the U.S. and disinfectant or anti-bacterials and plain old paper towels are more employed than electric hand dryers.  As well, there's the noise factor.  It's one thing to have hand dryers in public toilet facilities but another to employ them in an intensive care unit or the like.

I also took a moment to ponder if "sanitation stations" for doctors and nurses on the floor (an area for washing and disinfecting hands with a sound dampening surround to allow use of a hand dryer) would prove practical.  Came up with a blank as to room for automation as there is usually not much possibility to supply enough convenient placements for it to make the effort worthwhile.  Doctors and nurses often must travel from one hospital room to the next.  Keeping each room stocked with soap or hand disinfectant and paper toweling is much simpler and helpful to the purpose.

Venson

Venson wrote:
Cheers Venson - some good thoughts there. I'd imagine paper towels are the norm. A good business case can often be made for using the Dyson hand drier in place of paper towels - they're hugely expensive to buy, store and distribute around a building. However, the capital investment needs to be considered. Installing 4 machines in a busy motorway service station restroom might represent a good case for reducing costs + queing time. Installing at least 500 machines around a hospital would be need a major investement, although leasing and quantity discounts might help. You could install them in only the busiest sites, but I presume hygine practices are only as good as the weakest link in the chain.

Maybe the likes of Dyson need to jump through a few more hoops on this one.

CarmineD wrote:

WOW!!!! Is that cheesy or what? How does just offering cleaning TOOLS qualify as Asthma Relief! Thats stretching reality to the limit. I doubt Shark would even stoop that low...well maybe not. Pathetic. What next, Vacuum companies will add a Hand Turbo and a Charcoal Filter and then call it a Pet Vacuum.....ooops

M00seUK wrote:

Putting the cart before the horse?  I have heard that the air dryers require frequent cleanups/sterilization by humans.  Labor costs and human factor are a con for offsetting the money saved on paper towel costs/storage.  I don't presume to know for sure exactly the hygiene concerns preventing AirBlade from passing tests for infection control.  I suspect it's the dyson hand/arm drying well.  Why?  The well accumulates human skin particles in the dried water/soap residue which builds up in the dry well.  Being a haven for storing and hibernating these germs which may or may not be killed with cleaning.  Since this well is an integral feature of dyson's AirBlade, it appears acquiring the health certification, based on the unit's current design, is almost next to impossible.

Carmine D.

Lucky1 wrote:

I presume the design and function of the 3 tools allow users to vacuum surfaces which standard vacuum issued tools do not allow.  Requiring users to revert to hand dusting.  In giving users tools for the job, less dirt/dust in the home environment and on its contents.  Stretch?  Most definitely.  Tho the tools are neatly designed to serve cleaning functions.  But like all tools, use/user are often the key to their effectiveness.

Carmine D.

M00seUK wrote:

Knowing that dyson products are ALWAYS priced at a premium to existing competitors with the same products, I have to opine that dyson will enter the Japanese market first with any new kitchenware products.  Most big cities in Japan pay more for many common everyday services and products.  Japan is an excellent venue for dyson's new entries into a new market like kitchenwares.  Japanese appear to take a cottoning to Sir James too.  So all the more a reason.

Carmine D.

PS:  I suspect Japanese Christians celebrate Christmas but I don't know if it is a national celebration as in other countries and markets.

CarmineD wrote:

Putting the cart before the horse?  I have heard that the air dryers require frequent cleanups/sterilization by humans.  Labor costs and human factor are a con for offsetting the money saved on paper towel costs/storage.  I don't presume to know for sure exactly the hygiene concerns preventing AirBlade from passing tests for infection control.  I suspect it's the dyson hand/arm drying well.  Why?  The well accumulates human skin particles in the dried water/soap residue which builds up in the dry well.  Being a haven for storing and hibernating these germs which may or may not be killed with cleaning.  Since this well is an integral feature of dyson's AirBlade, it appears acquiring the health certification, based on the unit's current design, is almost next to impossible.

Carmine D.

----

Everything you've said there sounds plausible. The 'well' is one postive over traditional driers, which shoot water on to the floor - but I can see how it would need regular checking and maintaince and is likely the major issue with infection control.

I can imagine paper towels being a huge expense; 1) purchase 2) transportation 3) storage, 4) replenishment 5) disposal.... but seemingly the most hygienic method, for the moment.

CarmineD wrote:
Off the top of my head, Dyson has patents / designs for use in the following kitchenware appliances:-

• Hot water dispenser / kettle with removable reservoir
  The reservior sounds similar to the arrangement on the Tassimo drink machines, poss. with 'express' one drink heating, as seen in other kettles.
  
  
• Coffee machine
  Intergrated bean grinder / expresso dispensssor. Longer lasting mechanism. Option for milk foamer.
  
  
• Bread toaster
  Enclosed toaster, where you insert slices of bread like a cassette tape. Being enclosed is said to help with speed / quality of toasting.
  
  
• Kitchen TV / radio
  More resilient to spills than a traditional device
  
  
• Food processer
  
  
• blender
  
  
• Juicer
  Juices fruit and vegetables

Kitchen work top appliances can be *really* cheap these days. I can buy a small, practical plastic kettle for as little as 5 GBP, spend 30 GBP on a mid-range or 100 GBP on stylish model. The truely unique, added value features between these models is very limited. They're effectively a commodity, with many brands competing for your attention on the store shelf.

Going by these Dyson patents, there's two main advantages they hope to bring with their introduction 1) Use of their digital motor tech to reduce the size and offer improved functions using compressed airflow. 2) Ensure that each appliance is a common size - a cuboid, which means that two or more units can be linked together, taking up less work / cupboard space and reducing power cable clutter. Controls are flush and wiping them clean is easy.

What I think might turn out to be effective is the following senario: Price the appliances between 150 - 200 GBP, apart from the kettle, which is priced at say £75. This would make it a perfect candidate for a Christmas / Birthday gift. The recipant of the gift would be much more tempted to stay brand loyal to Dyson when considering further purchases, so they can 'clip' the cubes together and save on workspace. In my experience, people are frequently brand loyal with TV, PVR, DVD and audio equipment, but this doesn't follow through in to the kitchen work area. It sounds like Dyson are hoping to change this in the near future.

M00seUK wrote:

If the "hand/arm dry well" is in fact the dyson design flaw preventing hygiene certification, and I don't know that for a fact for sure, then at least with regard to hospital usage it is not a positive over conventional hand dryers, which sell for half the cost of an AirMultiplier.  The AirMultiplier dry well lends itself easily to direct contact by users and collects all the airborne germs teaming in wash/restrooms and toilets.  Exacerbating the infection control issue for this product.  The floor does too but users wear shoes [usually] and don't pass infectious germs along with shoes but do with hands, especially to themselves.  Both conventional driers and towels, at least for now, are more hygienic than the AirBlade.  For both hygiene and cost, conventional hand dryers trump dyson's AirBlade.  IMHO.  

Carmine D.

Lucky1 wrote:
Well, actually that's how Miele differentiate their models. Don't know about the prices in the U.S but in the UK you can buy the optional tools at cheaper cost including the filters and buy a base Miele machine to match the top specs on the latests.

So many other brands are doing the same though with pet hair tools and a HEPA filter to covet and cover the "Pet" owning associations.

Dyson products are at long last being sold in Malaysia:-
http://thestar.com.my/lifestyle/story.asp?file=/2010/6/30/lifeliving/6497471&sec=lifeliving

It's quite novel to see a regional Dyson web site, proudly proclaiming where their products are made:-
http://www.dyson.my/

From the Malaysian Star article above:-

"...that last product [AirBlade], however, does have its detractors, specifically, paper towel companies, which claim that hand dryers harbour germs."

Clearly the Kimberly Clark's of this world have a lot to lose should someone invent an electric hand drier with a completive hygiene standard. I'd imagine Dyson have engineers trying to meet that goal, but how feasible that is remains to be seen.

M00seUK wrote:

I respectively disagree with the author's statement.  Specifically "paper towel companies [which] claim hand dryers harbour germs."  The author of the article can't speak for all paper towel companies and she should have restricted her statement to dyson Air Multipliers, the subject of that particular part of the article.  Hand dryers have been around for years and years, although the AirMultiplier has only been around since 2006.  For as long as I've been on God's green earth, and I'm considered rather long in the tooth, paper towels AND hand dryers have coexisted in all public restrooms and washrooms that I've visited going back to my days of public schools.  Not AirMultipliers.  We can debate the reasons for the latter but I'm not inclined.  With touchless and motion sensor hand dryers and towel distributors, user hygiene is kept to a maximum degree for hand drying.  Except that the former may disperse germs into the air and on the floor vice the latter which confines the bulk of the hand germs to paper towels and refuse container used to dispose of them.  Contrast these two widely accepted and used options with an AirMulitplier which from the above exchanges is, based on the design of the AirMultiplier at least currently, a depository for hand/air borne germs. 

Carmine D.  

vacmanuk wrote:

Hi,

I wish it were so here but it is definitely not.  Miele sells a utility ("universal") dusting tool vaguely similar to the elongated dusting brush in the Dyson kit.  I picked a new one up off eBay for $20.00, shipping included, at a saving of about $5.00.  There is a newer version of this tool that has a neck that swivels.  A nice idea but it sells for approxomately $35.00.

Miele also offers crevice tools from about $20.00 to $30.00.  Lengths range from 6 to 22 inches.  I know the company offered a mattress tool in Europe but I haven't seen the like here.  However, the small turbo tool still sells here for about $70.00.

The SBB-300 parquet brush allows for extra swivel possibilities that actually lets you start cleaning stairs from the top landing down.  I just carry the canister clean each stair tread in front of me with no stooping involved.  BUT -- the tool costs $70.00 and I would not have one had it not come with the cleaner.

That said, price considered versus what the tools are actually good for is ridiculous.  I've had the Miele out to do the car once or twice and did an absolutely great job with just standard attachments.  Around the house the "univeral dusting brush" is fine for cleaning broad expanses of hard surfaces above the floor becauase it affords a wider cleaning swath than the round one.

In my assesmenbt the Dyson tools just like the Miele tools are made for people with more money than sense. 

Venson

Well said Venson! Ive only ever been impressed with their extension add on hose and the car clean set. Years ago someone sent me a Miele dusting brush (long handled) that they had received with a second hand Sebo X1 (obviously didn't fit, so I sent her a Sebo X1 dusting brush instead as a postal/exchange) and I couldn't wait to get rid of it after using it a couple of times. Apart from being made of thick plastic I found it to be of not much use and pretty useless of cleaning anything, favouring the standard 360 degree rotational ones you get with the uprights.

M00seUK wrote:

Dyson launched 2 new vacuum products this year, if you can call them new.  A DC33 and DC35.  Not sure the canister addition is really new as much as new to the markets they were launched in this year.  In any event, all appear variations on existing dyson themes, not really new.  Which brings me to the point of this earlier speculation by M00seUK.  What happened?  We're rapidly approaching the Christmas sales season and no word yet on the kitchenware products from dyson.  Speculation on your part as you said or the best kept secret by dyson in the history of its brand? 

WRT tepid acceptance of dyson's AirBlades, I opine that Prevention Magazine's research and findings from doctors and scientists that paper is more hygienic than hot blowing air may be the reasons.  Wherever I see the hand dryers, and I've not seen a dyson yet thou they have been out since 2006, I always see paper towels too.  I admit when I choose between the options, I always go with the paper towels not the hot air.  Defeats the purpose to use both.  No cost savings which is dyson's sales pitch.  Have to wonder when dyson will sell off that albatross. 

Carmine D. 

M00seUK wrote:

Interesting ideas but Porsche have already designed the cassette type toaster. Launched a few years ago I recall seeing it in John Lewis last year! The Siemens TT911P2 was designed by Porsche and has two sides that open up cassette style to toast the bread and automatically close through the toasting stage.




In the UK kettles are the norm, Moose but in the States they're not so common and not so cheap. I'd be interested to see how Dyson would get around the small household appliances, regardless of if they have patents or not. It may just be patents that have been put in at the design level, not necessarily to go all the way through to production stages.

M00seUK wrote:

Hi M00seUK,

So far, press releases full of "I'm gonna, I'm gonna . . ." don't carry much weight in my books. And as for the product patents, it's my feeling that had Dyson anything around to make a serious difference it would have been out by now.

I don't need a Dyson "bladeless" fan. I need a highly efficient and affordable air conditioner which, by the way, I can buy anytime I want for about the same money as I can one of Lord Jimmy's fans.

We're already inundated with with coffee makers that grind beans, and juicers and Cuisinart -- a name as big or bigger than Dyson -- has a corner on the food processor market. Also the company has done something new. They've developed a new machine that ingeniously allows for large and small tasks in a far more easy fashion and eliminated the need for spending $200 or $300 on a food processor and then finding yourself out spending another $20 to $40 for a small electric chopper.

As for robotic vacs, Dyson has been talking this up ever since I first heard the company's name. I feel there's little they can contribute in that area unless they can come up with one of the little devils that has more facility for deep cleaning.

We have begun to embrace some things European. The steam cleaner for one. It's a shame it's taken us 40 years to discover them. The electric kettle has always been around here but now can be found for as low as 20 bucks. The deciding factor deciding factor for small appliances usually being price, generally influences our ideas about necessity. When a kettle costs so much that you wonder why not just buy a complete new range instead, problems arise. As there are many, young and old, living here in small dwelling spaces due to cost/affordability issues actual time-saving small household devices that incorporate thrift by way of power usage will always be welcome.

Most of Dyson's jawing help keep the name and its alleged trendiness out in front of the public. But that's what I think it mostly is -- a lot of jawing.

Best,

Venson

Thanks Venson, I take on board you views. I personally find it enjoyable, reviewing patent filings for Dyson, just like many people do with Apple, as a glimpse as what might one day be released. With proper Robotic vacuums (i.e. not sweepers) it's generally a case of speculating what the major challenges are and how they might be overcome.

I see the Dyson 'fan' regularly in the stores, but like many, the appeal of paying a high price for something that would be used so infrequently is very hard to justify. Recent Dyson patents show they have experimented with mounting heating elements to their fan, so something like that might be more practical for the cooler parts of the world. 

The previously mentioned Dyson kitchen appliances are either due a big launch in the near future, or a huge write off. There's so many patents and the designs shown are very detailed. With many expired patents and little in the way of innovation, kitchen appliances have never been more affordable. The best chance a brand has to increase margins is to offer a chic design.  

The value you place on the space saving aspect can vary hugely. I've visited houses in Orange County with huge sweeping kitchens... and yet seen new small apartments in the city here with virtually no preparation area. Dyson does need to continue to diversify to get a reasonable return of the digital  motor tech... and Dyson won't launch a product unless it can demonstrate a new way of doing things. As said, the deep irony is that they don't currently offer digital motors on any of their mains powered cleaners....

The other angle I like from a business perspective, is making these kitchen appliances linkable / interchangeable. I can't think of many products nowadays that that successfully do this ...but I do know from playing with Transformers and Micro Machines in the 80s, that if a company gets it right, it could be very lucrative for growing the brand's loyalty.

M00seUK wrote:

Two dyson products come to mind M00seUK.......contra rotating washer and waterless dish washer.  The first was pulled off the market in 2005 under the cloud of ignominous lackluster sales with the promise that it would be redesigned and launched and the latter has been discussed here by you as early as July 2007.  Still waiting on both.  Next time you decide to read and rapture about the ever growing number of patents filed by dyson you may want to keep it to yourself.  Just a thought.

Carmine D.

HSN, Home Shopping Network, has culled its inventory of dyson products with the caveat check back again products are added frequently.  I've been doing so but note that the upright selection is limited [believe it or not DC14 is still for sale at $349 yet DC 33 the latest and greatest can be purchased at a plethora of retailers for $318].  Dyson canisters and handhelds are and have been non-existent for some time now on the HSN site.  Not what I would expect during the ramping up of sales for the holiday season. 

http://home-solutions.hsn.com/dyson-floor-care-canister-handvacs_c-hw0108_a-2699-7401_xc.aspx?prev=hp!sf!7401&cm_re=department_carousel*page1_spot3_image*Dyson_Branding&ccm=HW|2699

Carmine D.

Hi Carmine,

Sears is doing them one better by supplying the DC14 online by way of an outsourced vendor for $389.99.

Venson

PS -- Happy shoppers/not so happy store employees, a local Sears will be open for Thanksgiving. Don't know if this applies to all branches as I've discovered no info one way or the other online.

My store is open on Thanksgiving, and I cannot wait for the lack of traffic on that day. Sears is a sinking ship, and is desperate for any strategy to bring in customers and sales.

iMacDaddy wrote:

Hi iMacDaddy,

Though it's changed a lot, I'd hate to see Sears go as I have very fond remembrances of it back in the day when it had everything from fishing tackle to washboards.

However, things have changed. There probably was a time when people wouldn't have thought about leaving home to go out to shop on Thanksgiving Day. It was considered a day for family. There to, things have changed.

Nonetheless, I am a bit surprised at Sears' pricing ideas as regards floor care items. Way, way up there when so many people are being cautious with just about every penny.

Anyway, Happy Thanksgiving to you. Hope you can get out early . . .

Venson

I went by a local K-Mart today and saw that it is open 24 hours.  Also noted that there was not a dyson to be seen, not a display, brochure, and/or part like filters and tools.  Gone.  Lock stock and barrel.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Hi Carmine,

I wonder what they're doing. The K-Mart website is overloaded with Dyson vacs AND fans no less.

http://www.kmart.com/shc/s/search_10151_10104?keyword=dyson

Do chain store branches have the option to independently decide not to stock?

Venson

Venson wrote:

Hello Venson:

Yes, store managers for retailers have flexibility to stock/not to stock product in their stores as long as the brands and models are sanctioned by their Corporate Office.  In this store's case, the dyson vacuum products are being outsold by other vacuum brands and models and have been for quite awhile.  So a joint local-Corporate management decision was made to ditch in-store dysons.  In the current economy, and based on the vacuum competition, dyson vacuums on the K-Mart web site right now will probably sell as well as the dyson fans. 

Carmine D.

iMacDaddy wrote:

Hi all,

I just couldn't wait until tomorrow to ask -- who went shopping or worked in the stores this grand Thanksgiving day and what did you see?

Venson

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson:  Don't know if you are a daily hard copy newspaper suscriber.  After perusing the sales and ads, I'd say dyson was by far the biggest advertised vacuum product by big box retailers with the largest discounts offered: 25-35-50 percent from MSRP. 

Carmine D. 

CarmineD wrote:

Hi Carmine,

No need for newspapers around here. I haven't had a cat, bird or puppy for years.

I generally get my news off the net from all sorts of sources but mainly by way of the New York Times online. I also use Google for news alerts re vacuums. An interesting article re Dyson pricing in the UK appeared today. I pretty sure vacmanuk knows the skinny for real.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010/nov/25/vacuum-cleaner-price-check

Best,

Venson

This is what dyson is offering its owners on-line for the next 3 days.  Not really that good.

Carmine D.

Not displaying correctly? See email in full | Unsubscribe     We're running a special 3 day promotion on our website for Black Friday. As a Dyson owner, we wanted you to know first.     Until midnight EST on November 28, 2010, you can buy any new Dyson vacuum on Dyson.com with 15% off plus free shipping. It includes the latest Dyson Ball™ machines, such as the ultra-compact DC24 Animal, and the powerful new Dyson handhelds.     Abbreviated Terms: The 15% off Black Friday promotion will be in effect on Dyson.com from 12:01 a.m. EST, Friday, November 26, 2010 until 11:59 p.m. EST, Sunday, November 28, 2010. This offer is only valid while supplies last. This offer applies to the purchase of a new Dyson upright, canister or handheld vacuum cleaner product only. Excludes: parts, accessories, Dyson Air Multiplier™ fans and refurbished vacuum cleaner products. This offer may only be modified by a Dyson representative. Dyson reserves the right to terminate this offer at any time. Full terms and conditions are on the Dyson website.

Venson wrote:

Some details, Venson.  [Don't know if the NPD link shed any light on this].  Cyber Monday registered record returns for on line orders.  Number of people logging onto web sites hit record levels.  Compared to Black Friday, Cyber Monday on line sales were 31 percent higher.  Average order increased by 2.1% aided by increase in luxury good sales.  AMAZON was biggest winner on cyber Monday.  Wal*Mart next.  Then TARGET......  BEST BUY, KOHL's, SEARS were all in top 10. BEST BUY cyber Monday sales increased 50% and best ever.  Overall cyber Monday sales rose 19.4 % over last year which tops 14 % [last year] which was the highest in 7 years.

So based on early returns Christmas sales are off to a good start.  Too early to tell if the momentum will continue.  Retailers have offered biggest discounts in years and stretched out the sales season.  Two factors could combine to result in minimal growth at best for holiday sales season. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

I've received email ads from several big box retailers that they are continuing cyber Monday sales prices today too, on vacuums. 

Carmine D. 

Good morning all,

I was browsing the daily vacuum news alerts I'm hooked up for and came across an article about the new DC35 Dyson Digital Slim -- "the world’s most powerful lightweight, cordless cleaner."   I'm usually not all that interested in Dyson announcements but due to the manufacturer's claims -- a motor that peaks at 104,000 rpm, 22.2 volt lithium battery, anti-static carbon fiber brushes to improve dust pick-up on bare floors  (huh??), 15-minute runtime per charge and the vacuum's body being made from carbon fiber which the company claims is, pound for pound, stronger than steel -- I'm including a link so that you may make your own decisions.  Don't know whether the thing works well or not but, economy considered,  I assume we may be glad as the article says the motor department was upped by 30 employees during this cleaner's ten years of development.

http://www.thisiswiltshire.co.uk/news/8789084.A_new_magic_wand_in_Malmesbury_for_Dyson_/

Great picture of Lord Jimmy too, nearly weilding the DC35 as though it were Excalibur.

Happy Sunday,

Venson

Hi Venson:

One error I spied from reading the narrative is the run time.  Artilce says 15 minutes on a charge.  According the dyson web site the 15 minutes is in the low setting with straight suction only.  Add the brush attachment and the run time drops to 13 minutes [in low mode].  In the extra suction mode the run time falls to 6 minutes.  Dyson site doesn't say with/without the brush attachment for the high speed run time.  I noted [someone correct me if I'm wrong and missed it] that dyson foregoes the air watt rating on this gem in its official web site narrative.  Maybe it cleans by magic rather than air watts......

I  believe we had this exchange before on the thread on DC35 Slim.  But it was awhile back.  So I take no credit whatsoever for my above post but defer instead to the original poster  who posted this already.  It may have even been me since this sounds very familiar to me and my thought stream on this magic cleaning wand.

Carmine D.

PS:  The dyson site does indicate air watts for the DC35 Slim at 65 AW for high [6 minute run time]  and 28 AW for low [at 15 minute run time unless used with brush attachment and it falls to 13 minutes].  This is a degradation of air watts for DC35 in low speed compared to DC31 hand held which is rated at 38 AW on low speed BUT ONLY 10 MINUTES of run.  Dyson increased the run time on DC35 Slim over the DC31 by lowering the AW rating.  Nice twist of magic.