Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

I am interested in buying an upright vacuum, bagged, and I am willing to spend up to, say, $350.  It will be used, not heavily, by an older woman who has a shedding cat and is not mechanically apt.  A longish cord and an attachment for a linoleum floor would be a plus.  I'll take any suggestion, but in the absence of any I am looking at a Hoover UH30010COM Platinum Lightweight Bagged Upright Vacuum Cleaner with Canister, which is sold on Amazon.  My concern with Hoovers in general is that according to CR they are highly repair prone.  Anybody have experience with this model in particular, recent experience with Hoovers in general, or any other suggestions?

eliot3 wrote:

The model that you mention was sold by BEST BUY with the companion compact canister for $400 then $300 then BB stopped selling in the stores, at least.  I was not impressed overall by it.  Tho CR rated it in its number 2 spot for uprights.  Has some very nice features.  I believe the cord length was 25 feet on the upright.  Not sure if you consider that "longish."  The model also receives the Carpet and Rug Institute seal of approval.

I have and use HOOVER WT and TEMPO models.  Cord lengths are 21-25 feet.  Excellent rug performers.  Consistently rated highly by CR.  Retail $90-$250.

For your budget, definitely shop at your local vacuum stores.  Should have several brands/models that perform well with better reliability ratings.  Possibly display/demo models that come with original warranty.  Take the lady user along and let her test and try for suitability.

Carmine D.

eliot3 wrote:

I have been using the Platinum combo for several months.  Some of the prior vacs that I used were Kirby, Royal, Dyson, Oreck, Panasonic, Hoover bagless (3 different series).

I have been pleasantly surprised at the performance of the Platinum.  Cord is ample at 35'.  Although the bags are large this vac fills them quicker than others I have used.  A  good indicator that dirt is being removed from the carpet.  It is light weight and feels featherwieght when using.  So far no issues with the quality.  The hand held is an excellent performer with superior suction.

Bags are not cheap and not overly abundant.  I would prefer it to be quieter.  I have had to remove the sole plate and clean under it. IMO this should not occur with the use that I have given it.  It has not affected performance and hopefully will not.

The brush can't be turned off.  I use the hand held on non carpet floors.  Having the hand held gives it an advantoge over Hoover uprights with no brush stop switch.  The WT Hoovers get low scores on reliability.  I have not used one for years so I can only report what I read.

The Platinum has the Hoover name, however I doubt it is a true Hoover design.  All vacs have their quirks.  I can't say that I have found one and I highly recommend the Platinum. You should at least try one at home. Just purchase from a store with liberal return policy.

HARDSELL wrote:

You like to ask questions and get answers.  Now let's reverse roles for a change.  I have several questions for you:

1. Which of these above mentioned brands/models were you using just before the purchase and use of HOOVER lightweight bagged platinum?  
2. How long were you using? 
3. How much square feet of rug are you typically vacuuming?
4. ..and how often did you vacuum with these vacuums before the HOOVER lightweight and how often do you vacuum now with the HOOVER lightweight bagged Platinum?

Carmine D.

From the Reviews Tab at the topof this page.  A review of the HOOVER lightweight bagged Platinum by lazaruspup once a regular poster here.  Many of the reviews and industry consumer authorities, like CR and CRI, give this HOOVER high marks.  I think there are valid reasons this combo was relatively short lived in the big box retailers.  When it comes to lightweight uprights with companion canisters, ORECK has a lock on the market.  Hard to detrone a king with 45 years of reign with heirs apparent to the throne.    

http://www.abbysguide.com/vacuum/reviews/388-0-1.html

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

1. Kirby and Royal - 2 - 3 years.  Hoover Whisper less than 90 days. Brought an Oreck home to compare with the Platinum.  Returned the Oreck within 3 weeks.

2. see 1.

3. Approximately 1200 sq ft

4. Ususally vacuum weekly or more if needed.  No change in frequency with Platinum.

HARDSELL wrote:

Perhaps the reason you are filling bags so much and so quickly is due to the vacuums you were using prior to the HOOVER lightweight bagged platinum.  Not working properly?  Not adjusted properly to rug heights?

BTW, you say HOOVER WT are rated poor for reliability.  I'm not sure what your source of this information is from.  You owned 3 but didn't provide your own experience with their reliability just what you read.  What was your experience.

BTW, I've owned an used 4 WT/TEMPO products in the last 4 years and have gifted 3 away.  Prices ranged from $60-$140.  All are still in use.  I've repaired/service all at l;east once during this time.  Only costs are bags, filters [inexpensive] and belts.  Nothing else in 4 years.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Adjustments were set properly.  I was not aware that the Fusion and Whisper are WT's.  Where is that info?  My sister has a Fusion that I bought her.  It has fallen apart in less than 3 years.  My experience has not beeh with WT's.  Tempo is not a WT.  Why did you buy 4 and gift each away? 

Motors, brush rolls, switches seem to be the only problems with the WT series.  Seems as it the wheels are ok.  What did you repair on each Hoover? I never had repairs performed on my vacs is 3 years.  Also, you claim to use at least a half dozen vacs.  Repairs on a vac used 1/6th of the time is not so good.

CarmineD wrote:

Hi Carmine

I myself never really saw the kirby or the royals as deep cleaners.....ive used them in commercial-residential...shop setting and wasnt really impressed...yet with the tempos riccars pans, ect all left a better deep clean and better over all grooming..

I have some tempos/wt in service at some of the county accounts [5yrs] in use...and all have done very well holding up under the abuse they take everyday...still a deep cleaner to date. and easy, inexpensive to service/maintain.

Had seen and heard some really good things about the whispers...dyson like perf with tempo type cleaning/grooming ....wonder about the dislike? the panasonic...hmmm?

I got to use the hoover platinum bagged for a cpl days at home.....loved it. cant say enough about its great performance. wish id had one......would like to know about exact like/dislikes of each unit tho...knowledge/curiousity nothing beats user exp...

turtle

HARDSELL wrote:

I bought a HOOVER Z, HOOVER WT, HOOVER TEMPO made in Mexico and HOOVER TEMPO made in China.  I purchased the HOOVER WT first for our new LV home and new carpets when we first moved in in August 2006 [$140].  Outstanding rug cleaner.  Not so good on floors even tho it has a barefloor setting.  20 pounds got to be too much to push around every day.  Church needed a vacuum with OBT, I gifted WT away in April 2007 after buying the new ORECK XL, which I still have and use.  WT is still going strong for the Church.  HOOVER Z was $100 new from HOME DEPOT in Nov 2007 and I donated it away new to the Church for the 2007 holidays.  I bought it because I had a Z previously for 6 months in 2006 in our home in VA and liked it.  Couldn't resist the price tag [$100] which Venson mentioned here.  Still going strong for the Church.  The TEMPO's [2] to compare a HOOVER/MAYTAG TEMPO with a HOOVER TTI China.  [$75 and $55 respectively] Same same in every way.  You can read my reviews here on the reviews page for the WT and 2 TEMPOS.   Again, I donated the China made TEMPO [newest bought] to the Church.  Still going strong for the Church.  Since I didn't use the new Z after I bought it, but donated away, I didn't write a review here.  If I did, I would have said for $100 it was an offer I couldn't refuse. 

I vacuum daily and have for the last 12 plus years [dog sheds daily year round so no choice].  Dog dies, I still vacuum daily: Habits are hard to break.  Alternate between ORECK [if I'm vacuuming the floors too] and TEMPO if not vacuuming the floors.  ORECK is the best on my floors.  I have about 700 sq feet of wall-to-wall rugs and 1000 sq feet of tile [not counting garage].  Plus assorted area rugs through the house.  I replace the paper bags in both uprights every 2 months and they are never ever even half full to the line for changing.  Daily vacuuming is the key.  Doesn't give the surface dirt time to imbed into the carpet and matting onto the floors.

I would never recommend vacuuming 1200 sq foot of carpet with an ORECK let alone just once a week. Not the best size wise [nozzle head] for all that carpeting.  Takes too darn long to do a thorough job. 

BTW, you said that HOOVER WT's were rated low in reliability and when pressed cited motor, brushes and switch problems.  I asked you for the source of that information.  You didn't answer.  Gave some nonsensical response. The motors and brushes in the TEMPO and WT are the same.  On some of these models, the switches too.

Carmine D.

retardturtle1 wrote:

I agree.  I suspect they were bought and used after using a dyson DC07 for several years.  So those rugs were filled to the brim with years and years of built up deep down dirt.  Especially if vacuumed just once a week.  The reason that a HOOVER with WT technology, even a lightweight, would fill the extra large bags quicker than the others used before. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Do you think you can escape that dig?  The Platinum followed a Kirby, Royal, Hoover Whisper and some in between.

I replaced approximately 250 SQ Ft of carpet with wood flooring.  The carpet had been vacuumed wit the DC07.  The installer said he had never removed carpet ot that age that did not have filth under it.  I only vacuum weekly because we do not have animals in the house.  We do not track in sand or filth.  Most times shoes are removed at the door.  Remember the Orek had a chance and failed (twice).  My carpet always receives compliments for looking clean and visitors are always surprised to learn its age.

Perhaps you could reduce your vacuuming if you left the filth outside.  Of course the BS would still follow you throughout.  How do you dehydrate it enough to vacuum daily?

HARDSELL wrote:

Just as I said in my post above. If it's a dig, you dug the hole yourself and fell in it.  Thank you very much for your honesty.   

A rug can hold its weight in dirt and still look clean to the eyes even for years.  You said that the HOOVER bagged lightweight [with WT technology] which you are using for several months is filling bags more often and more quickly than all the previous vacuums you used.  Why?  I told you so.  The previous brands and models are not working properly and/or not adjusted correctly.  Turtle gave you another reason.  The proof of all the dirt left behind in yours rugs by these other vacuums is in your new HOOVER bags [with WT tech].  Also proof that WT technology even on a new lightweight HOOVER model is the gold standard of rug cleaning.  The reason in part Consumer Reports consistently rates HOOVER with/w-o WT technology as the best in uprights.  ORECK is a contender at just 8 pounds but a very distant second. 

My review for the ORECK XL is also on this site.  I like this ORECK model so much I bought 3 more and gifted them to family [with needs and wants that are matched by the ORECK XL].  See, simple and easy when you know what you want and need.  When you don't, you are hard to sell.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

For your benefit I should have worded differently.  The installer was surprised at the lack of filth under the removed carpet. I did not say the Platinum removed more dirt than the DC07. 

I read your XL review.  Means nothing since I used two that failed.  Of course you have already established that you do not like deep clean carpet so the Oreck is satisfactory for you.  BTW, A single yard sale that I shopped at today had 3 Orecks for sale.  I believe they were being replaced with some brand that starts with D.

HARDSELL wrote:

You got it right the first time.  I wondered and asked often here why you sold the dyson after using just 2 years if you liked it as much as you said so.  You finally provided the answer below.  Thank you for your honesty.  I highlighted. 

A deep rug cleaner like the HOOVER WT will remove the dirt other vacuums leave behind even in the matting and under.  BUT.. you will have to vacuum thoroughly.  HOOVER suggests 7 passes forward and back for best results.  I suggest doing this 7 pass method with daily vacuuming for at least 7 consecutive days.  Why?  If you've vacuumed once a week routinely for 5 years with vacuums that leave dirt behind [as you say], it will take a rigorous vacuuming routine to get the rugs back to normal clean.  Like the ORECK tho, with the smallish nozzle head on the HOOVER lightweight bagged [even with WT tech] it's going to take you a darn long time to vacuum 1200 sq feet every day with 7 passes back and forth.  At the end, change the bag and go back to once a week and as needed.  Monitor and track your bag usage/replacement.  If the 7 daily vacuum days works, it will save you money on bags in the future.   Let me know the result.  Always happy to serve and assist.  But.. you have to get over your ego and id and listen and follow my instructions.  Or, you are still going to be hard to sell.  Your choice, not mine.  You can have it the hard way or the easy way.  It's your time and money. 

HARDSELL wrote:

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Hi eliot

Personally if it was me I'd save up and go for a SEBO. Having just visited www.ebay.com I can see there are quite a few Sebo models on there under the $350 mark and whilst the X4 model is heavier than Oreck, it has a lighter gliding aspect thanks to its electronic head; the machine can also clean hard flooring without marking and doesn't need a Lino tool - I regularly use my X4 on hard floor lino and no damage ever occurs. Given that there's a pet involved the Sebo X can accept other tools such as a mini turbo brush for above the floor cleaning. If the owner intended has to clean cushions or anywhere where the animal is going above carpets you would need to consider a vacuum cleaner that has optional tools and a hose to deal with this - none of Oreck's models have a hose on board unless you consider the much more expensive Oreck Pro commercial upright model and that weighs more than Sebo's basic X4. Over the lighter XL, whoever owns it will have to do bend down to the floor and undo a screw to replace the drive belt - on the Sebo uprights, push a button and the brush bar pops out - the machine is fitted with a lifetime drive belt.

Another alternative is the Sebo Felix or Windsor Axcess which is the same machine in the U.S Starter prices are usually $400 which is a bit more than the asking price. Generally if reliability is what you are after and little to go wrong the older SEBO X1 Automatic or X4 should suffice. U.S models under the Windsor tag go under the name of " Windsor Versamatic." The Versamatic models on EBAY.com are well priced whilst the X4 has slightly more power (check out 300427569260 on Ebay.com from a seller based in Maine for example)

Windsor Versamatic                                                                                                                                                                     Sebo X4

eliot3;

The HOOVER UH30010COM is a very good upright that does a very good job of getting at that deep down dirt.  I do like this.  It is comfortable to use and does not require alot of strength to push/pull/hold.  The handle is also very comfortable.  It does have a long cord, so there will be less moving of the plug, as the user vacuums.

I would not follow what CR says, because they get it wrong. You can read, from my posts, that I do not use what they say.  What I have always told people is to use it to see/compare the features of some models.  They do not even have all of the  brands available.  That right there makes it a bad guide, because the potential vacuum purchaser may be missing out on a very good vacuum cleaner, if it is not listed. 

If you are going to get the HOOVER, I would suggest that you take your time and look around.  I know that you can find this model, for alot less, in other places.  You can find it for alittle over $200.00.

HARDSELL wrote:
HARDSELL;

This was a good reply to the OP

CarmineD wrote:

Hi Carmine

I started the above 7 pass meth today.....i had been doing the up and bak method, twice a day...everyday,, so im anxious to see what turns up in a week.

Will do the 7 pass in the morning...single up and back at night after dinner..as usual.

My full routine of carpet cleaning is vacuum twice daily...everyday and use the spin scrub hoover to shampoo/re-rinse  every change of the season...that and a central hvac hepa filter change every 45 days keeps the wifes allergies at bay...pollen has been awful down here in the south over the past couple years....record setting.

And thank you for the tip....i hope you dont mind.

turtle

Mike_W wrote:

Thank you Mike.

retardturtle1 wrote:

Turtle.

You and Carmine can get help for the OCD.  

retardturtle1 wrote:

Have at it.  Keep me posted.  I'm sure you'll find the rugs looking better both before and after you shampoo too by using this 7X7 procedure.

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

How about this one Mike W?  Need help deciphering the childish  acronym? 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Is there something wrong with saying What Tomfoolery?  If you have to vacuum the area 7 times you need a better vacuum. 

HARDSELL wrote:

My favorite:  A soup question.  No more wrong than ID-10-T.  Oftentimes, it's not the vacuum brand/model that is at fault when rugs fill with deep down dirt, but the way it is used.  Or, more appropriately in your particular case, the lack thereof.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

The soup question has you in a stew. 

If you home is so filthy that you have to vacuum an area 7 times daily you have more than vacuum problems.

A good tool reduces labor.  That is why Dyson costs more than the electric broom that you use.

HARDSELL wrote:

Better to be in a stew than in a stupor.

Anyone, even an amateur, can do the job with the right tool, it takes a skilled craftsman to do it without.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Dyson builds a tool to do the job right the first time.  That leaves the operator time to do useful things.

THe craftsman is James Dyson.  Oreck is a relic and lost in today's world as evidenced in the slump in sales.  Do you still wash your clothes in a stream and beat the dirt out with a rock?  A true art.

HARDSELL wrote: Oh yes Hardsell - w h a t e v e r - Dyson may have got his tools right but his washing machines went belly up and they have yet to make another appearance despite the poor reliability of the last ones sold.

CarmineD wrote:

Will do....very light sand colored carpet throughout....easily picks up any and all stains/dirt you name it....no shoes in house but sometimes it cant be helped.

Shampooing the carpets and sofas every 3mos really makes a diff in wifes allergies and in keeping everything fresh and looking brand new. Im looking forward to seeing the results of what ive left behind.

turtle

HARDSELL wrote:

Like these tools:

1. The Ball barrow [aka discontinued wheel barrow]. 
2. Airblade [aka hand drier for $1400]. 
3. AirMultiplier [aka 10 inch fan for $300]. 
4. Ball vacuum [DC15 for $599 and discontinued after one year.  DC18 Slim for $469 and discontinued after 2 years.  DC24 for $399 and TBD.  DC25 for $500 plus with a free dyson handheld and free Dirt Devil rug cleaner]. 
5. Waterless dish washer [patent pending for 3 years and still counting]. 
6. Contra rotating washing machine [aka a washing machine costing 2X the normal price that was pulled off the market after 1 year for lack of sales].  
7. Robotic state of the art pristine DDM plant [aka UK-China business partnership which recently shuttered].  

The craftyman is James Dyson.  Useful things in today's world to meet the problems of the future.   Tru r teest!

Carmine D.

retardturtle1 wrote:

Sounds like a perfect plan of action. 

Carmine D.

vacmanuk wrote:

I was amazed dyson actually sold 1900 in 2004 before he pulled it off the market.  Then, I learned he actually gave each of his employees one free. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Thank you all for your responses.  We wound up getting the Hoover, and from Amazon even though that's likely not the cheapest source, because if something goes wrong Amazon will take it back

HARDSELL wrote:

Sir James Dyson, 2006:  "Vacuum bags will become collectors' items." 

What happened?  DC07, DC11,  DC15,  DC18,  DC21 ....the actual collectors' items.

Crow

Carmine D.

eliot3 wrote:

Enjoy your new HOOVER bagged Platinum lightweight and compact canister. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Carmine;

You really do not have any room to finger-point.  The ice is getting thinner.

eliot3 wrote:
Congrats on your new  purchase.  The HOOVER should perform very well for its user.

"Take care of your vacuum, then your vacuum will take care of you"

Mike_W wrote:

Nor do you!  No ice in the desert.  That's one of the reasons I moved here.

Carmine D.

Mike_W wrote:

It's not a good/bad guide per se.  It's a guide, period end of story.  How one uses it determines it worth.  If it is used as a starting point to acquaint and familiarize the uninformed vacuum buyers and users, then it is a good guide.  If it is used as a 'gospel' it is a bad guide.  My feeling is that the experts in the field are the final and best source of advice ALWAYS.

Disgree with your argument that CR include all the vacuum brands to be a good guide.  It would be a tome rather than a magazine and have to be called Consumer Repose because it would put readers to sleep.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Carmine;

I am so glad that you disagree w/me.  I have no objection to you continuing to do so.  Love it!

I will be responding to your last post, but I have to get back to work.  I will put together something really good for people to "chew on".

Mike_W wrote:

I find the CR results to be entertaining and somewhat useful.  There certainly are limitations, particularly since the vacuums are only tested on medium cut pile carpeting.   A suboptimal vacuum on medium pile carpeting may do an excellent job on low pile carpeting.  Who knows if the results are generalizable to other carpeting types.  I have also commented that the filtration scores are of very limited value, since almost every vacuum receives an excellent score for filtration.  If we are to believe Miele's advertisements and anecdotal evidence from allergy sufferers, we would presume that the filtration of Miele's is better than that of a Dirt Devil Featherlite Bagless.  However, the emissions scores are the same on these vacuums. 

I don't know much about Rainbow vacuums, but given that it is curious that they can be one of the worst vacuums for cleaning carpeting when they are sold by in home demonstrations in which they have to perform well enough to convince a consumer to part with over $2000 dollars.

Reasonable criticism of CR's methodology is good, because it forces them to improve.   I think it's fairly good for eliminating choices, but not necessarily for finding the best choice.

CarmineD wrote:

I will say it again, CR should only be used as a way to compare some vacuum cleaner’s features.  For countless years, I have found evaluations inaccurate.  These have been mentioned in past years, like saying one machine made by a manufacturer “feels heavier” than the same machine under a different brand name.  I have read comments from others, who could not understand why their vacuum scored low.  I have also heard the same thing when people post comments on CR’s website.  There are inaccuracies.

 Severus,  it is fine if you think CR is good reading.  I think it is quite funny reading sometimes myself.  I read it, but I do not read it for the same reasons you might.  I need to know what they are printing in regards to vacuum cleaners, so that I can comment when someone says a particular machine was highly rated.  Or, if a vacuum cleaner did badly in the ratings.   Vacuum enthusiasts wait in anticipation of the vacuum issue.  I noticed that you were the first to post a thread on its arrival.

A vacuum salesman/repairman should not be using CR for their business.  What I mean by that is that they should not be following what CR recommends, to promote their business.  Look at it this way, hypothetically, CR evaluates vacuum cleaners and the top choice is Aerus.  You, the Aerus salesman tell your customers,  “Look, CR even promotes the Aerus machine as the number one choice.  They know what they are talking about.  What a great magazine.”  A year goes by and CR does not give a favorable evaluation of the same Aerus.  The salesman then says CR magazine is a worthless piece of junk.  The same customers have heard the salesman after both CR issues.  What is the customer to believe?  The customer is going to think the salesman does not know much about vacuum cleaners, or his product, if he has to rely on CR to sell or back up his product.  A good vac salesman will be able to use his knowledge to sell.

If a salesman is selling a product, he should tell someone about the product and not that CR rates it “number two” or “thirty”.  The only time that I have ever used CR’s scores is to use it against someone.  It happened on one of the vacuum forums, when a person said they follow CR religiously.  That person put down one product and exalted another.  I showed that person the one that was put down was rated higher than her praised one.

Carmine, only using a few samples limits choices when shopping for a vacuum cleaner. We are talking vacuum cleaners in the U.S. and not the world.  CR is a U.S. publication.  What is worse, Good Housekeeping usually has a smaller selection.  For the longest times, people did not know what a Riccar or Simplicity was.  I highly promoted these two brands, because they were durable, good quality, good performing machines.  Yet CR did not always test these brands until more and more people heard about them. 

Carmine, not everyone knows that “experts in the field are the final and best source of advice”.  That is why they turn to CR and shop at big box stores. BTW, not everyone is an expert.  That is why people should visit a few places and not just one.

CR over recent years typically tests and rates big box store brands more often than the indy and d-t-d brands.  I opine because more vacuum buyers gravitate toward these brands and models with their pervasiveness in all the big box stores.  Usual price ranges for these big box brand vacuums are $50-$250.  Exception is dyson.  If vacuum buyers are more discerning, and have budgets in the $250-$350 and more for their vacuum purchases, local vacuum stores are the best source of brands, models. 

It's not about a one time vacuum purchase, it's about a business relationship.  CR doesn't look at it that way and sadly probablt can't.  Most vacuum buyers don't.  CR caters to the mass marketed brands and models.  For these reasons, in addition to the reasons already provided, makes it a guide not the gospel.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

I think CR has more than proved that by its allowing consumer reviews.  Most are not "expert opinions" but food for thought.

Venson

Venson wrote:

Thank you Venson.  Something to chew on.

Carmine D.

Mike_W wrote:
Certainly you have a different motivation for reading it than I do, given that you are in the business and I am a consumer.   I would agree with you that it is foolish to promote CR rankings.  Rankings depend on whose included and who isn't.   However, the total scores and individual scores are invariant to who's included.  Assuming that the tests are relevant to your situation, then they are valid for comparison purposes.

CR tests are valid, fair, and repeatable.   They use solid experimental designs that ensure that each vacuum has the same opportunity to perform.   Obviously the user reviews are helpful supplements.  Based on the CR reviews, I would have no idea that the Dyson DC07 failed on some carpet types.  I'm not sure what vacuum would be best if I had deep shag carpeting. 

If I had to recommend to a consumer how to use the ratings, I would say to see if the vacuum has an overall score of 61 to 80, in which case its considered a very good vacuum - these are CR's top tiered vacuums.   If you have bad allergies, look elsewhere for advice because CR's emissions scores don't discriminate at a level that is helpful. 

If you tend to pick up a lot of fine dust, the CR results may be of limited value given that tests are conducted with empty bags.   I will leave it to experts to say what vacuums work better on low pile carpeting, berber, and shag, since CR only tests on medium pile cut pile carpeting. 

CR's ratings will be debated forever.  However as a not-for-profit organization that I have no memory of hearing of using its position or name  for the purpose of self-aggrandizement, I don't recall CR ever consenting to use of its recommendations by vendors in the first place. 

Does anyone know if or when Consumer Reports stopped "policing" use of its recommendations by sellers or vending entities to push. product?  They usually took such vendors to task or court over it.  In past CR highly frowned upon the practice and still does unless policy has been changed. 

I had a friend who worked for CR at some point in time and she informed me that the organization took all it set its hands to quite seriously.  Use of CR ratings by vendors to garner sales is an issue kindred to the re-use of disposable vacuum bags.  People are told not to do it but go ahead and do it anyway.

Venson

CR's ratings mirror GHI and Which? in the UK; consumers generally check to see what is rated as the "best" and move onto buying the products. Id hazard to guess that only a select few will continue to read the features further on with the way the Internet delivers information.

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson:

CR has not changed.  CR, owned by the nonprofit Cinsumers Union, forbids companies from citing its respected awards in their ads.   CR's annual auto issue [April 2010] recommended slightly more than one out of every four GM models the magazine evaluated.  David Champion, CR's director of auto testing, says it buys the vehicles it tests from dealers.  "We do not want to be beholden to the manufacturers in any way," he said.  " We don't want to be seen as selling our names to manufacturers."

Contrast this with Consumers Digest which sells its awards usage to makers to advertize.  Consumers Digest chose 15 GM cars and trucks for its 2010 "Best Buy" awards.  Then GM paid the magazine fees for the right to mention those awards in its ads.   CD says its typically asks $35,000 for the first award and $25,000 for each subsequent award.  CD has a different business model than CR.  Fees for its awards are one of its main sources of revenue.  Its magazine has no subscribers, runs no ads and is only available in certain bookstores and retail shops.   

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Thanks for the verification Carmine,

Say what you want about it, that's why I like Consumer Reports.  Were it a publication funded by the manufacturers of product it reviews I'd be highly skeptical about making use of it.  As CR strives to keep itself set apart from that kind of nonsense, I never need to always agree with its recommendations but have still found it a good tool for shopping as I find most of its advice relatively sound.

Best,

Venson

Venson wrote:
CR  is far from perfect, but it has the most comprehensive data available.   Certainly it doesn't pick up on issues like some vacuums not functioning properly on wool carpeting.    However, that is why user and professional reviews are also helpful. 

Severus wrote:

Hi Severus,

If wool carpeting was in very high demand I believe CR would probably give the matter deeper thought if brought to their attention or of bigger issue.  However, how many people are buying wool especially now?  It's an extremely pricey material that most people look at, and positively adore but then ask the sales guy, "Um, can you show me something that runs a little bit less?".  From what I've seen, wool's just great but nylon with a good, dense weave is the next best choice.

I have never known any decent vacuum that had problems on wool carpet.  If Berber or looped pile is the issue, my first thought is to either go for an upright with brushes as soft as possible or to consider very frequent vacuuming with a straight suction machine to help preserve the distinctive look it was bought for.

No, CR is not perfect but it helps everyday people who are not overly informed as to what's available and how it should work in the process of doing its job.  CR has done wonderfull things for me.  It explained basic things that go beyond brand or make.  Did you know that half the battle with dishes is won if you have the water temperature to your dishwasher at the proper temperature.  (If that's difficult to achieve the next best thing is a machine that can boost its wash temerature.) Dishwashers depend upon high alkalyne detergent and water teperatures hotter than our hands are meant to endure to work well.  That in mind, to the benefit of many CR helped dispel notions that a humble $300 dishwasher couldn't hold its own against te bells and whistles on a 1,000 buck model.

Another example -- Forget wattage draw, merely the way a blender jar is designed can make all the difference in performance in a low wattage blender and one that can pull a truck..

That said, over the years I've seen CR as very helpful in helping regarding vacuum choices along with many other items especially where one might have been led to spend more thinking there was automatic advantage by way of higher price.  Whether they're walking around on silk or olefin, CR's users are generally people who haven't the time to ponder long over the purchase of just a vacuum. That's why it's still popular both as a hard copy periodical and online Where else should they go?

Venson

One brand and model is consistently cited by both Consumer Reports and Consumers Digest as a Best Buy is the EUREKA Boss Smart Vac bagged upright which retails between $120-$140 depending on retailer.  Hard to beat for the price but a tad on the heavy side.  A model that has been around for quite awhile.  At least 10 years by my memory and perhaps a few more than that.

Carmine D.

eliot3 wrote:

My grandparents had an Oreck that they loved. It was lightweight and for their needs (no pets), did a great job. I have no experience with Oreck so maybe someone else can chime in on this. The Oreck XL Silver Power Team is $349.00 on their web site. The Oreck XL Classic Power Team is $289.95. Melanie

catlady wrote:

COSTCO is offering the ORECK power team now thru June 13 [?] for $240.  ORECK is the iconic lightweight brand.  Good quality, excellent service and parts support from its own stores nationwide.  I own and use the XL Classic upright for the last 3 years and bought 3 more and gifted away to others who use and praise them.  Considering the COSTCO purchase as an upgrade with thoughts of donating mine away.

Carmine D.

PS:  You'll appreciate this Melanie.  ORECK and the US Humane Society offered a special in April 2007 for buying the ORECK XL Classic upright only at $150 with free shipping.  I bought and liked it.  Then bought 3 more for the same price and gifted.  My wife/I use our ORECK every day/every other day for both bare floors and rugs.  Still as good as new and works perfectly.   Belts and bags are the only expense.  Belts are $2 and take a minute to install.  Bags are $12 for 8, year supply and takes 2 months before I replace [using another upright/vacuum in addition to the ORECK].

"You'll appreciate this Melanie.  ORECK and the US Humane Society offered a special in April 2007 for buying the ORECK XL Classic upright only at $150 with free shipping." 

Very cool!

For general carpet dust pick the Oreck XL is good; for pet hair though forget it ; the thin spine at the back often clogs with pet hair and the Oreck's motor isn't strong enough to put the clog into the bag!

vacmanuk wrote:

I have never had this problem or any other clog with my XL Classic.  Never in 3 years plus of constant usage.  Tho my yellow English lab died recently, she shed year round and hair was a constant issue for house cleaning.  Her hair was comparable to that of a golden retriever.  Oftentimes she was confused for a retriever.  Dog hair was never ever a problem for the ORECK on floors or rugs.  In fact, never even hair wrap on the brush roller.  All dog hair, save some that stuck to the brush end caps, always made their way to the bag.

My daughter uses an ORECK too.  Like us, she has a yellow lab, but American breed.  Shorter hair than the English lab breed.  No problem for the ORECK on floors and rugs.

Carmine D.

PS:  Recall ORECK and the US Humane Society typically sponsor promotions for ORECK vacuums.  I can't believe that the two would partner on these offers if there was even a iota of truth that pet hair would cause clogging. 

catlady wrote:

Bless you for what your doing....Catlady

The orecks have a no risk return for 30 days.......if you dont like it for whatever reason you can get your money back.

In that time you can run it hard and see first hand for yourself if it does what you want and need it to do....

The oreck could possibly be the in-between vac to help lighten the load on the s-7.... if not happy with the perfpmance and results over a couple weeks you take back for a full refund....nothing to lose.....id say its worth a try.

turtle

 

retardturtle1 wrote:

Catlady's home pet shelter poses a definite challenge for any and all vacuums full size and lightweight.  An ORECK upright used as suggested would fare well if kept up with belts and bags at usual intervals.  I opine any one who has the patience and heart for all these furry friends can muster the effort to change a $2.00 belt every 4-5 months and bag when needed.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Hi Carmine

Well my 7x7 test is over.....im happy with the results.....i cut the bag open and found about 2 weeks worth of dirt/hair/ tiny bit of carpet fuzz....about a 1/4 bag is the norm every 2 weeks doing the up and back method twice a day....1500sqft..not incldg -kitchen/restrooms /carport.....the carpet has a softer feel to it...as soft as contractor grade gets....but will be shampooing with the hoover spinscrub this week since summer is here....so we shall see.

The vacuum i used was a panasonic 585 w/triforce system..xcept ive swapped out the brushstrips for 6 of the riccar comm 8925's...for that agressive clean...as it does a better job overall.

I plan on redoing the 7x7 test as soon as i go thru and check out the radiance that was gifted to me....just to see what comes up?..at worst case ill have really clean carpet so its worth the time to me...but your suggestion works on the 7x7....you can see and feel the diff....well worth the time and effort.....great tip and thank you.

turtle

retardturtle1 wrote:

Hello turtle:

Nice vacuum to use for the 7X7 procedure.

Often recommended the 7X7 method to persons buying vacuums who were w/o a vacuum or using a poor performing rug cleaner and groomer.  This process restores carpets back to normal clean.

Also recommended to persons shampooing their carpets either themselves or professionally.  The more deep down dirt you remove before shampooing, the better the rugs after shampooing.

Carmine D.

MC-UG585

Performance Plus Platinum Upright Vacuum with HEPA Filter and Motor Protection System