Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

The ASA generally get two types of complaint; either a consumer who purchased a product and found the claims lacking or a competitor who believes that the advertising is false or stretches the truth to an unreasonable degree. I wouldn't say it's fair to suggest that Dyson, by making a complaint are being ungracious -  check out the number of complaints (the vast majority not upheld) made against them by their competitors over the years.

In this particular case, it depends on someone who has a commercial interest. Someone with the technical knowledge and funding to be able to make a good, convincing case against the claims being made. 

Do Dyson have a rationale, beyond merely spoiling a competitors campaign? I think they do. For many year Dyson have designed their bagless technology to make effective use of the motor. Whereas many bagged competitors have tried to make a big play by promoting the power draw of the motor, as a measure of the machine's effectiveness.  Now, this competitor is trying to justify, by some questionable logic, that lower watts can clean just as well. Would I personally sit by and watch potential market share go to a competitor who has some misleading, largely irrelevant ECO claims being made, without them being challenged? No, I would do something about it.

Carmine D.

Well, in the context of that complaint I read '39 consumers of dyson vacuums' as '39 people who allow the bin to continually fill way past the MAX marking'. I've seen people's Dyson vacuums get plugged up before now - but never in personal use, when ensuring that the bin is dumped regularly. I find no first-hand evidence that if used correctly, that the no loss of suction claim is at all invalid.

Dyson have previously demonstrated in that in dual cyclone bagless cleaner, although in general use, a tiny, tiny amount of dust particles might get through to the filter, the minuet loss of suction would be more than made up by fluctuations in the voltage / air pressure. 

Dyson's legal for the current claims are: "Dyson proves no loss of suction and pick up performance using results from IEC60312 Cl 2.2, 2.3, 2.8, 2.9, ASTM F2607, F608 and F558, and DTM755 - an independently conducted Dyson test. Dyson proves Dyson’s most advanced cleanerhead technology and engineered to pick up more dirt based on the results of IEC 60312 Cl 2.2, 2.3, 2.8, ASTM F2607, F608 and F558, and DTM 755- an independently conducted Dyson test."

However, I'd say that concessions might have to made considering reasonable use of a product - it's human nature to forget / be unaware of why you should dump regually. Hence why some recent Dyson recommend checking the filters every 2 months, down from the previous 6 months. I have a DC24 with the 2 months recommendation - but based on my own, considerate, use could go at least 18 months before needing to wash the pre-motor filter. Ideally, dual cyclone vacuums would have a shut off before any overloading could plug the cyclones - but practically, for a domestic cleaner, I'd suspect this would be very challenging and add to the handling weight.

Well..........NEVER means never.  It does not mean NEVER ...."if you follow the instructions in the User Guide."   If it did, dyson should have said so.  BTW, dyson's original filter service and cleaning instructions to dyson users stated that the filters should be cleaned every 6-9 months.  And dydon did not include the "legal caveat" you cited above which came after the ASA ruling against dyson.  As did the revised filter service cleaning schedule of 3-5 months in all future dyson User Guides. 

To wit:  dyson's claim of "lifetime belt" and "filters."  And zero costs over 5 years.  "Likely to mislead." 

Carmine D.

Electrolux added the automatic shut off and pop out feature in its paper bagged tank line in the mid 1950's. 

Carmine D.

Hi M00seUK,

The idea's quite nice but it would mean employing strategically placed dust sensors in a bagless machine.  That would probably cause a rise in cost unfavorable to most consumers and probably more maintenance issues for keeping the sensors clean.  Anyway . . .

Funny thing happend yesterday.  A salesman was explaining the difference in two canister vac models of the same brand to a mother and her teenage daughter.  When he told them that one had a full bag alert and that the other didin't the daughter asked, "Well how do you know when the bag is full?"

"You look," I said.

I am always amazed how things that are simple can so easily escape people lately.  I don't know whether that is attributable to over-hype of so-called feature advantages. 

Venson

I only know of a few people who recycle vacuum bags and I never heard of Dyson's using that as a sales campaign pitch point.  As well, for good or ill, disposable bags in the U.S. were definitely intended to be used once and then tossed.  They are a great convenience of course but disposable bags also appear to be and have been the vac industry's way of maintaining connection with end-users -- and their money. (Forgive me, I've been reading Noam Chomsky.'s Manufacturing Consent.) Due to replacement likelihood, disposable bags -- replaceable belts and two types of required filters -- generate far more continuing revenue than replacements for permanent bags.

As far as I'm concerned, suction level debates often makes mountains out of mole hills.  I do not claim that bagged machine suction does not lessen somewhat, say from week one's insertion of a fresh bag to week four when the bag is nearly full, but I strongly state that available suction in better models is satisfactory for the same tasks all along that period of time.  As for power consumption levels, I live in an old building that has my aprtments two circuit breakers down in the basement and the only access is through my landlord's office.  Trip a breaker on a Sunday or a holiday when he's not around and you have to wait 'til Monday to get it switched on again.  Thus no ironing or vacuuming with an air conditioner on, etc.  That in mind, I use the Miele(s) using several speeds and have no problems.  I do this sometimes as compromise to avoid consumption related problems and sometimes because the work at hand calls for it.  Speed switched all the way down, I can clean really light scatter rugs using the power nozzle to effect a better clean with les effort, switched all the way up I can zip over bare flooring and stairs very quickly.

As well, I have only had two vacs that had automatic power adjustment but liked both very much.  The Hoover Dimension canister that I owned started up at about mid-speed when set on "automatic" and only increased if it sensed a build up of dust in the bag or if there was a particular concentration in the area that I was cleaning.  Made perfect sense to me and was my idea of useful as far as energy efficieny was concerned.  Come to think of it, it was one of the most sensible vacs Hoover ever made.  Can't figure out why they stopped putting it or something like out.

Bagless vacuums still do not generally offer collection capacity for continuous cleaning as genrous as many bagged vacuums and require more work to keep them running properly.  I open the bag chamber of my bagged vacuum and everything I need to see (bag and pre-filter) are right there.  If the look of  the pre-filter doesn't please my eye I can change it without a lot of fuss and the bag's a breeze to replace.  My idea of heaven.  My other vision of Heaven is merely to be in that wonderful position of having just enough.  Therefore, if I have just enough suction to everyday get work done efficiently and quickly, I'm happy and hopefully duly grateful.

Last but not least, a very large part of vacuum cleaner advertising claims rely on malarkey.  I have seen this occur with generations of American vacs of all brands.  I don't think we need special agencies to protect us from madness in the vac makers' conference rooms as much as we need consumers to apply a little common sense.

Venson

If I may add my 2 cents, Venson when you do the comparison use your MIELE S7 upright with 6.76 qt dirt bag capacity [if Vacmanuk is referring to a dyson upright dirt bin capacity] rather than your S5 MIELE cann with 4.76 qt dirt capacity.    Might suggest Vacmanuk you do the same and let us know the results.   

Carmine  D.