Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

this is my mdl 31 Filterqueen

Ah yes the bagless vacuum question for the centuries.  And still today too.  Got a call last week from a youngin with one of those high price import box store bagless uprights for $600.  It's about 4 years old.  She says the "darn" vacuum smells like her big old dog and whenever she uses it in any room, even the baby's nursery, the air in the room smells like the dog.  Isn't bagless beautiful?

Carmine D.

Most likely the vacuum is just blowing the existing scent that is imbedded in the carpet, drapes, etc.  The pooch must stink.  Either wash him or put him outside.  Problem solved.

HS, nice try.  But glib answers don't solve the question for the century.  It's the bagless vacuum that stinks ALL THE TIME.  Why? There is no easy way for users to clean and sanitize the bagless to prevent it from holding and giving off pet odors during use.  Once imbedded in the vacuum, you can't get rid of it.  It's not the dog that stinks all the time.  She gets groomed on a regular basis by a door- to-door pet groomer.  The dog never goes into the baby's nursery on the 2nd floor.  But the vacuum does. The dog stays on the first floor always.  If the dog makes it up the steps, there's a locked children's proof gate to prevent the dog from accessing all the rooms on the second floor.  Including the baby's room

Carmine D.

HS:

Bagged vacuums are easier for their users [especially with household pets] to keep clean and odor free.  Bagless vacuums over time get infiltrated with and maintain pet dander and its smells.  Even with just 4 years of usage.  The high-priced big box store bagless is still under warranty as I'm told and smells like a "darn" dog.  The dog gets groomed frequently.  A bagged vacuum gets a new bag monthly.  A bagless gets and stores the odors forever.  The more users try to disguise/veil the smells, the worse the odors get.  Like manure.  Stack it in one place and it smells.  Bagged vacuum: Change the bag and good as new.  Bagless?  Stuck with smell even under warranty.

Carmine D.

I suspect those reconditioned bagged models were not under warranty like this high priced bagless.  Back in the day, cloth bags retained odors in vacuums much like the bagless of today.  A reason in part for the paper bags replacing the cloth.  Sadly, Sir James Dyson missed this cloth bag era of the vacuum industry or overlooked it in designing and selling his own bagless brand.

Carmine D.

I'm referring to new vacuum warranty periods by the original manufacturer and odors even with following manufacturer's instructions.  Pet owners should be irate to pay $600 for a high priced bagless and after 4 years haver a pet odor that permeates the vacuum and the house when in use.  The house is the same age as the vacuum.  I doubt replacing the hose with a new one on this bagless will eliminate the pet odor. [Tho it probably would in most bagged models].   I also doubt the retailer/manufcaturer will make this offer to the customer.  Sadly, the filter maintenance on this bagless is the original lifetime filter warranty with 6-9 month cleaning [2002-2007] schedule initially promulgated by the high priced bagless.  Not the 2-3 month schedule that was later prescribed by the bagless manufacturer [2007-now].  While the later short schedule may eliminate/reduce the pet odors during the manufacturers' 5 year warranty period, and may be a reason for the filetr cleaning change, I'd bet he odor is problematic after the warranty period.  The difference is that the retailer/manufacturer can put the onous solely on the owner after the warranty period and recuse themselves from any warranty coverage.

Carmine D.  

I can't think of any bagged vacuum except this $600 bagless vacuum that has the pet odor problems under warranty.  Can you?  Perhaps pet owners should avoid buying these high prioced bagless vacuums if the manufacturer/retailers don't warranty against pet odors during the warranty period.  I know this one will no longer.  I suggested to her that she contact dyson, the LV retailer, and the entity that approves the vacuum for its fresh clean air smell during usage.  Perhaps one/more will provide some consideration/remedial action with the odor issue/problems.  Especially since the vacuum still is under warranty and clearly displays the UK seal of approval.  The odor problem will only get worse with time and use.  Maybe she can recover part of her original cost/get some more normal usage out of this one until she buys another vacuum more suited to households with a pet and children.

Carmine D.

PS:  Imagine that you bought a TOL toyota vehicle for $60,000 with a 5 year 50,000 mile warranty.  Gradually you noted a toxic smell entering the drivers/passengers' compartment while the vehicle is still under warranty.  It appears to get worse and worse.  What would you do? 

Common sense tells me that any vacuum will omit odors if the odor omitting substance is left in the bag/bin.  Air has to pass through the bag same as the bin.  Hold a rag over your nose while in a port a pottie and it still smells like poop. 

If ol Rover's hair smells so foul he needs a shower. 

You can change the bag.  Good as new.  Especially if one of the many odor resitant/retardent paper bags is used as a replacement.  One of the innovative vacuum technologies for bagged vacuums in recent years.  Can't change the bin and get rid of the smell in the high priced bagless.  Can't wash/change the high priced filters that are in the high priced bagless brand and eliminate the odors.  Can't chnage the hose and dirt by-pass to eliminate the odors.  Why?  You can't remove the odors in the cyclones in this high priced bagless no matter how hard you try and regardless of what you do. 

The dog smells fine after grooming.  Just like a person after taking a shower.  Odors are gone.  Washing works for people and pets.  Not for odors in high priced bagless vacuums.  Can't give a high priced bagless a shower.  Maker's instructions tell you not to.  Water is bad for cyclones.  So what do you do?  Open the windows in the car when you drive and in the house when vacuum?  $600 bagless vacuum and $60,000 luxury vehicle.  That's common sense?  Remember the heat of July gets to 115 degress in the desert in Las Vegas.  Doesn't make sense to use the air conditioner to overcme the heat and then open the windows for fresh air.  If the heat doesn't overcome you then the dry sandy air will.  Nevada authorities cite pet owners for keeping their pets outdoors in the heat during the summer.  Same for leaving babies and children outdoors too.  Maybe common sense says the vacuum should go oustside instead.  In the trash and off to the dump where it will be right at home among the smells.  I know one bagless brand buyer who feels this way now.  Lets' see what she is told by dyson, the big box retailer where she bought it, and the UK entity that sanctioned the $600 brand for persons with allergies and breathing problems. 

Carmine D.

Would you please elaborate here on your steps and vacuum components to "maintain and clean out properly"  to prevent and overcome smells and odors emissions during usage.  Not just pet but musty dirty smells in general that are pervasive in bagless [at least from reading on-line posters' reviews and questions of assistance].  If you focus on the high priced bagless brand it will be useful.  Also feel free to quote directly from the users manual if you are familiar with it's authoritative manufacturer instructions not just experience and opinions.  Since you speak with expertise, do you have a pet[s] and use a bagless vacuum?  How long?  What are your feelings and findings. 

Same question for you HS?  You appear to be an authority on pets, smells, and vacuum odors, enlighten us on your knowledge and experience.

Carmine D.

After 50 years, I can fully understand having the lingering puke perfume smell.  Sadly, its there forever now.  I suspect it was left unused for a period of time with the smell pervasive throughout the unit.  No way to get it out now with reasonable effort and costs. 

Carmine D.

1. Clean the brush roll, especially if it has pet hair and threads wrapped around it.
2. With an antibacterial cleaning cloth with bicarb of soda soaked in to continually wash out the dust channel. Depending on what vacuum you have (and for me its Sebo here) so its dead easy to clean out with a bendy wire or bottle cleaner with a "wet wipe" wrapped around and tied down with rubber bands. Constantly swabbing the interior of the dust channel gets rid of nasty dirt that suction can't move.
   
3. Then I take off the entire hose and lay it in a bath of cold water and 4 tablespoons of bicarb of soda and some vinegar. I let the hose air dry and it can take a period of up to three days to ensure the hose is completely clean and smells clean! Ive also manually dried a hose by continually packing it up with cloths wrapped around a thick stick that won't bend or tear the hose.
4. I don't know if you guys in the U.S get disposable cleaning cloths but they're all the fashion in the UK; ones with Orange oil aren't effective on vacuum hoses and dust channels. Antibacterial and/or non-abrasive coated "wet" cloths are ideal for "sterilising" a vacuum cleaner.
5. Then I do the same to every tool I've used for pet hair pick up, crevice tool, upholstery brush and even lint brush.
   
6. I then take a bendy wire again with antibacterial wipes or similar again and swab the back of the dust channel leading to the hose. You can then dry the inner channel with a dry cloth like a J Cloth. Until all tools and inner hoses have been completely cleaned out, then there's less of a chance that once everything else is installed and dry the reek of pet hair / that puke smell will be banished.
7. Once everything is back in place, I sprinkle a load of bicarb powder into the carpets and let the vacuum cleaner pick it up to put in the bag. In the UK we don't really have the Arm & Hammer coated bags (even Electrolux stopped selling many of them) when it would make more sense to have bicarb/ in a paper bag or canister "live" as opposed to through layers of filter paper before the dirt.
   

 First, take the motor unit off the collection bin and let it run it to establish whether or not the odor still prevails.  If it still smells when it runs off the bin that means the problem lies within the motor unit.  Which may mean wiping out the uppershell and replacing the muffling material at the top of the machine.  That used to be a kind of cotton batting.  I do not know what the new material they use now is but it can be ordered from Filter Queen.

The cleaner that images of have been supplied of has been abused,  Note pic showing dirt inside filter cone. That should not be.  Be advised, if you want to take the vacuum apart, that's up to you however you must remember to take careful mental or written note, step by step, of what you did to disassemble it if you're not of the handy sort and want to get it back together again.

If the smell is not coming form the motor unit itself, remove the sealing ring at the top of the collection bin and hand wash it in warm not hot water with a general detergent of your choosing.  Good old dish detergent is always good.  Do not wash but wipe out the inside and outside of the  collection bin with a wrung out cloth using the detergent of your choice and let the bin dry thoroughly before putting the cleaner back together.  The plastic form for helping position the cone at thebottom may cause further problems by holding moisture underneath. Also do the same with the metal cone form attached to the motor unit.

Replace the hose.

Filter Queens usually are okay if the cones ar mounted properly and it the secondary filter is in place.  A second idea that often works if odors can be determined to be coming for from the motor unit is to place a couple of teaspoons of mot chrystals in the bin and let the cleaner run for a short while.  You may even let the machine sit with the crystals in the bin but by all means do check after a day or so to be sure that no rubber seals or fitting are affected.

For general odor problems, a few teaspoons of borax or baking soda vacuumed up may be very helpful.

Venson

Thank you but ...........this is resolution therapy after the fact not before.  I can see these procedures employed for a 50 year old FQ but a 4 year old dyson DC07?  Still under warranty?  Are these service procs reasonably probable and practical for dyson users on DC07 and 14 models to rid them of musty dirt and pet odors while still under warranty?  I think not.  I think they are unreasonable and even if employed are rarely effective.  Why?  These dyson models have unrealistic filter maintenance schedules [6-9 months for cleaning is too long and prone to hold odors] and the convoluted dirt paths and components on these dyson models.  Once the odors set in these dyson models it is virtually impossible to remove even with your remedies.  Why?  A user/repair tech can't replace/clean all the ports and parts where the tell tale odors remain and are emitted.  Many of which are permament and can't be removed/replaced like the brush bar.  These odor holding places get worse over time.  The users' remedy for these models with musty dirt and pet odors is with dyson, the BAF and the retailers.  Especially while still under warranty.

If you got stuck with one of these dyson models unbeknownst about the odors, what would you do if it were still under warranty.

Thanks,

Carmine D.

Hello Venson:

As you know the fans and motor parts gets coated with dirt.  Cakes on too.  If the FQ vacuum sat unused for any long time the puke perfume smell gets absorbed into the caked on dirt in the motor parts and cavity.  Lingers on forever unless the parts and pieces are completely disassembeld, cleaned thoroughly down to the surfaces, or better replaced out.

Carmine D.

Bingo MOLE.  Thanks.  That pet oil actually serves as a sealant and causes the pet hair to stick on the surfaces and in the nooks and cranies.  Acts as a magnet for pet and dirt build up.  Can't blow that out with air.  Has to be washed and srubbed off of the surfaces.  Problem with dyson DC07 and 14 models with their convoluted dirt paths and parts is that this is virtually impossible because they can't be removed and washed.  How do you clean the permanent dirt path tube into the dirt bin on these models?

Carmine D.

Well Carmine its really not worth doing it as far as a cost standpoint .It will happen again very quickly

Just see what happens when you tell your customers the DOG needs to go.

Hi MOLE:

Not going to happen.  She and family are taken by the dog [after 7 years] but she got taken by dyson after 4.  The dyson will go and more than likely be replaced with a bagged upright vacuum, which she had and used before the dyson DC07 Animal.  She had odors but a bag and filter replacements corrected.  She'll vent to dyson and BAF.  On a positive note, the LV retailer where she purchased the dyson is agreeable to perhaps giving her a partial credit on the original cost of the DC07 for a new bagged upright replacement.

Carmine D.

Here are the illustrious pronouncements you offered here HS.  And not one mention of baking soda?  I thought for sure you'd say throw some cheap Arm & Hammer BS into the luxury toyota and bagless bin to veil the toxic fumes and puke perfume odors.  What happened?  True to form.  You give up on it like you did dyson's DC07.  Smart move.  See I knew you weren't as dumb as you sound.  Next you'll be telling us to put nitrogen in our tires and claiming credit for the brilliant idea.

Seems others here have been bruised in their smellers by dysons too.  Don't take my word, read it yourself:  Better yet have someone who can, read it to you.

Carmine D.

Hi Carmine,

I'm only offering the simplest solutions I can think of in this case.  None of the Filter Queens I've owned goit in that condition as the cellulose cone did amazing things. The filter cones were always seated properly and the secondary filters were always in place.  Never had a problem and everything after the filter cones stayed c;lean as a whistle except for a small amount of carbon dust off the brushes.

However (not meaning to beat a dead horse), from the look of it, the machine in question has been badly mishandled.  Unless you're a real technician, this is the kind of thing you clean up and de-funk as best you can as the cost to set it really right won't be worth it.  For what you'd pay you can buy either a fully fitted out used or re-furbed model in tip-top shape for the same money..

Venson

Hi Venson:  Thoroughly agree with you on this 50 year old FQ AND I would add for HS's benefit on the lady customer's 4 year old dyson DC07. 

Carmine D.

Hi,

This one's around thirty-something.  A year or two prior the model fitted for a PN.  It has the two-speed switch (look just below the attachment crown) and the rug tool has a bumper.  Nonetheless, it is not a rarity and can be found on eBay just about any day of the week.

Best,

Venson

Carmine D.

Thanks Venson:  Like dyson's odor filled DC07, this bagless FQ puke perfumed cann makes a good door stop for a lumber yard.

Carmine D.

I well understand.  I've got two Rexair Bs that I'm going to have made into table lamps one of these years.

Venson

I completely agree with 3 dyson steps since August 2006 when dyson's warranty was extended from 2 to 5 years.  One, the shorter filter cleaning schedules on models like the DC16 and later dysons to 2-3 months from the 6-9 months on DC07 and DC14.  Two, the discontinuance by dyson of the disingenuous claim that these dyson vacuums NEVER clog.  Three, that these 2 dyson models were discontinued just a few years into their production runs.  Did any other vacuum brand with its supposed signature models [launched its brand worldwide] discontinue their models within just a few years of their production?  I can't name one except dyson and these DC07 and DC14 models. 

Products are not made and marketed for the convenience of the product makers and the retailers.  They SHOULD be made and marketed for the convenience and ease of use by the buyers.  Especially when the price is $600 for a vacuum [and $60,000 for a vehicle].  Imagine buying a luxury foreign car and having 4 recalls on it in less than one year and being told by the CEO of the company [AKA The Prince] that the brand is the epitomy of reliability.   Really?  What dictionary is he using?  Like having 3 major product flaws on a signature model [s] and having the company discontinue them while still under the original warranty period.  

Carmine D. 

A postscript:  Add step 4 by Sir James Dyson and his bagless vacuum inventors:  Discontinuance for all time and on all future dyson models of the gawdawful clutches on the DC07 and DC14 models. 

Hi Venson:

Back in the day we vacuum pros called these Rexairs "water hydrants" for obvious reasons.  The only thing I did with them was use them as filler in my store display windows.  I still have the black and white photos somewhere around with them in the windows.

Carmine D.

Someone beat you to it.  The product is made and marketed already.  I think it's called "zorb."  With a name like that it must be Greek....especially since the cost is $109.  I think the money from the sales are going to sure up the bankrupt government.  Tho CR says for the $109 a pack users are better off with using BS or sand!   Maybe HS has some thoughts on the subject.  He's a AH BS cure alls expert.

Carmine D.

Carmine D.

Carmine D.

Hi Carmine,

Rexair and Rainbow's biggest problem is that they didn't/don't allow for spontanaity -- thing that helps user develop a liking for a specific machine.  If you're rug or floor's looking a little ratty, you can't just walk over to the closet and whip out your Rainbow and put it away again.  Not endearing, and certainly not endeariing enough to make either Rexair or Rainbow of nuch interest to the mass market.

Filter Queen is referred to as bagless and it is in the sense that dirt is not collected in a bag of any sort but replacement of a fresh filter cone was required with each emptying. You don't just dump it and walk away.  Because of the need for a fresh cellulose cone after each emptying that rates about the same to me, maintence and expense-wise as having a bagged vacuum.  The cones worked very, very well but dumping the collection bin was probably not too delightful a duty to many stay at home moms or working women, the predominant users of vacuums since back in the day.  The positive side was that FQ has great dirt capacity and you can clean for a good month in the average home befor emptying.  Yet again, due to the convenience aspect, here we have a vacuum that has never bowled over the industry in total but has retained a "following".

Long gone Lewyt was "bagless" too but jumped off the bag wangon relatively quickly and made the switch to the "speed-sak."

Over the years, it seems that people minded shaking out Electrolux and/or Hoover bags far less until the disposable dust bag caught on.

The big issue with bagless vacuums today -- like any others --  is convenience, quality and performance.  If I have to do extra work to get other work done, I look everywhere for the best ways to get around it.  If they can produce a bagless that doesn't require frequent emptying, has collection bin that's easily flushed out and that requires no more than six month filter maintainance under standard cleaning conditions, I could be talked.  Unfortunately, I have seen no such machines.

Best,

Venson

Well said Venson.  I add one more:  All niche sellers.

Carmine D.

Carmine D.

Carmine D.