Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Shot this video with a Dyson and placed it on youtube. It might be of interest to those thinking of buying a bagless vacuum. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnad0yuASec

Lucky1 wrote:

Hi Lucky1,

First thing I want to know is where I can get the Miele apron.

Your demo depicts the deciding factor for me in regard to bagged versus vacuums in my household. When it comes to cleaning, it feels great to know you've done a good job. It's also equally great to know your cleaning tools are equally clean and/or easily cleanable.  Old school cleaning principles deem a dirty mop as bad as a dirty floor.

That is why I've become almost totally disinterested in bagless and water-type vacuums -- too much effort is needed to keep them clean. 

Thinking economically, I place great value on my time. Depite  the cost of disposable bags and filters, the few seconds it takes to remove a full disposable bag and replace it with a fresh one is far less a draw on time than the time it took to clean up either the Rainbow or the Kenmore Iridium bagless I owned. I made it a habit to frequently wash my Iridium's dust bin along with the pre-filter not just to assure best performance but because the bin really looks crappy it you don'y keep it clean.  Just dumping it out never lent to keeping it looking spiffy.

Back to bags, I get great cleaning, I get great filtration and dust containment and popping out and putting in a bag about once a month calls for just a minute of my time until the next time.

Venson

This video shows shy bagless vacuums should be designed for wet cleaning.  The dust build up in the cyclones will eventually develop a stinky smell exhaust smell. 

Severus wrote:

Hi Severus,

I'd almost agree but would think that a bagless vacuum that can also do wet pick-up would have to be further designed to ensure user safety if it should over fill or be tilted past a certain degree. 

To my mind, it would be best if bagless were still designed for dry pick-up but  had internal airways that were treated with teflon or some other anti-adherence substance that would allow them to be easily flushed out at a sink with plain water.  This would also mean rethinking design by making dust collection and filtration components -- cyclonic chambers, shrouds and collection bins --  conveniently sized and easy to separate and assemble again for faster, easier drying.  For those who don't mind, even dishwasher safe plastics for these parts might  simplify matters of maintenance. 

As for odors, several years back, LG the maker of the bagless vacuum my Kenmore Iridium was cloned from used plastic within which nano-silver was embedded for the collection bins of certain bagless vacuum models.  The nano-silver is claimed to be anti-bacterial.  I also recall that the same substance has been used in certain food storage containers for the same purpose and has also been claimed to widen the use-window of fruits and vegetables once home from the store.

http://www.nanobiosilver.com/applications.html

Venson

The idea of washing, further contradicts the pervasive opinion that Bagless vacuums are maintenance free. Customers buy it thinking there is no further cost and no maintenance worries. The crowd that is buying a bagless (note: on purpose in deference to many who are buying because thats ALL they are given the choice to buy) would best be suited to be sold a disposable vacuum...use it, fill it and throw it out. LOL

Venson wrote:

In my haste i was sloppy earlier.  I intended to say that the bin, shroud, etc., should be designed so that it can be cleaned at regular intervals.   I may be mistaken, but I believe the great Dyson enthusiast Tom Gasko once said that he cleaned his dyson dirt container - shroud and all.  He could likely provide some insight into how to do it without doing any damage to the rubber seals. 

Unless the dirt builds up a bad odor, I'm not convinced that it's a problem.  I'm sure that there's dirt in the hoses/dirt pathes of all vacuums.  Some of the better vacuum makers provide carbon filters and other methods to hide the smells.  Rainbow is likely one of the best for getting rid of the musty smell, and you can buy the water perfumes. 

Perhaps Dyson can develop a dry powder that you can pick up with your dyson that does something like "sandblasting" away the dirt. 

Lucky1 wrote:

Hi Lucky1,

I thoroughly agree as to many shoppers believing all their problems have been solved with the purchase of a bagless vac. Yet, I can't get a handle on how some people have slipped into suspended reality.  How anyone can believe you can buy a vacuum that you don't have to take care of is pure indulgence in fantasy.  What goes up still has to come down some time and there are no free rides.

I didn't mean to infer that a bagless vac be washed out with each use but, instead, be given a good cleaning when its obvious that a lot of residual dust has gathered on its essential components.  The clear bin on my Iridium made it impossible not to see dirt build-up in its airpaths after several uses and I'd find myself getting sick of looking at it. To its credit, the machine cleaned and filter quite well as long as the little tubes around the bin wall were kept clean and debris wasn't allowed gather and build up in the shroud area.

Since consumers are showing less and less desire to be concerned with maintenance, a disposable vacuum cleaner just like toss-away cameras and razors might not be a bad idea.  However, ecologically, we can't take the heat any longer. We're up to our ears by way of the fallout from disposable items.

Venson

I guess it would be interesting to see how much dirt you could blow out of a central vacuum hose.  Dirt sticks to the blades of ceiling fans, and pretty much everything. 

In the late 1990s when Hoover UK first launched their first series "Cyclean," and "Hurricane," bagless uprights, the company ironically made see through food bag type dust bags that could line the actual dust bins. It made no sense having to buy them when the idea of a bagless vac rules out bags. Needless to say the bags weren't a good seller.

Also if that video on you tube had been done in a darkened room or something with light paper behind it, you'd get a better chance to see what's actually on the shrouds.

Severus wrote:

Hi SEVERUS:

Not the same analogy.  At worse, if the build up of dirt in the hose is a concern, and I doubt it is unless there is a clog that can't be fixed, you buy another hose and start over brand new again.  What do you do with build up in the cyclones?  Buy new cyclone assemblies regularly?  I suppose so.  I suspect hose dirt doesn't affect suction power unless a clog develops.  This requires introduction of a foreign object like a nail, hair pin, clip, sock etc in addition to dirt.  Not true with cyclones and normal and gradual dirt build up.  Never clogs, never loses suction?  Now just a mere marketing myth.

The dirt build up on most surfaces can be vacuumed up.  Not so with closed and sealed cyclones.  You have to blow them out regularly.  Air and breath pollution.  I suspect the MIELE draped mechanic in the video was/should have been using a commercial grade face mask.  Lucky not to be cited and fined for air pollution [no pun intended].  All the blowing in the world never ever gets cyclones clean and completely dirt free.  The more in operation, the more the dirt build up.  Bagless is bogus. 

Carmine D.

Hi,

I'm not sure, but isn't plain old uncooked rice used to help clear central vacuum hoses of clinging matter?

Venson

CarmineD wrote:

As the Miele clad person, my purpose was to illustrate to the unaware, the amount of dust retained in a bagless vacuum, more so than my method of cleaning the machine. (As for the method, In addition to air I also wash as many of the parts as possible).

Lucky1 wrote:

From what I see and hear your methods for bagless cleaning are pretty standard industry wide.  The concern with these methods, especially the power blowing, is the air pollution and risk to doers like you.  Back in the day, cloth bags posed these problems too and in large part the efforts to clean/keep clean were the reasons for paper bags and their huge popularity  among users.  Quickly becoming the standard industry wide.  Bagless is a reversion to the worse of the vacuum dirt containment systems very similar to cloth bags.  Just as cloth bags were hyped as less expensive than bags, bagless is hyped as less expensive too.  The argument fails once put to the users' test.  Sounds good in theory, not in practice.  Just as the argument for cloth failed the users' test of popular opinion, bagless is too.  Except for household hands and sticks and wet/dry.

Carmine D.

I overheard  my vac shop managing friend engage in the following dialog with a customer:

"Why don't you sell NEW bagless vacuums?"

"I only make 10.00 selling one. I make 30.00 every time I service one. Plugged filters and hoses are not covered by the warranty. I don't want to be the person who sells a product that creates that much unhappiness and frustration."

"But you service them, right?"

"Yes, they need servicing quite often. I sell the filters, brushrolls, belts, whatever you need to keep your vacuum running."

"Why are the Mieles so expensive?"

"They are not expensive. They just cost more upfront"

"What do you mean?'

"That Miele Callisto is 899.00 with the large powerhead, a free pack of bags and a HEPA filter."My average Miele purchaser buys THREE bagless vacuums at an average cost of 130.00 each first. That's 390.00.  Each one will be serviced three times at a cost of 30.00 each time, that's 270.00, and each one will have an average of two to three filter replacements, call it 2.5 times at an average cost of 30.00 each, give or take) depending on how many filters are in the unit,that's $75.00  times three, so $225.00 and three belt changes, at 3.00 each, that 9.00 times three, so 27.00, so total cost for those three bagless vacuums is $912.00, and at the end of that time, you still need another vacuum cleaner.  A 5 pack of Miele bags lasts the average household a years. Some people get smart after the first throwaway purchase, some never do, and we cheerfully keep fixing their Wal-Mart vacuums at 30.00 bucks a pop

Just then THREE customers come in to pick up a total of FIVE bagless vacuums and fork over a total of $150.00 exclaiming "What fast service! I just dropped this off yesterday/this morning!"

"Would you like to take home a Miele of your own today?"

"My husband would kill me if I spent that much on a vacuum!"

"Would you like to look at our selection of used vacuums?"

"I don't want a used vacuum.  I think I'll head on over to Wal-Mart"

"Here's our card with our hours.  Our turnaround time on most vacuums is one day, sometimes same day. See you in six months."

"Why six months?"

"Six months is the average length of time it takes for a customer to bring in their new bagless vacuum and tell me it doesn't pick up, either at all, or on the floor. And for them to tell me after I explain the filters are clogged that, "There are no filters in that vacuum!"

"Six months is still under warranty!"

"For defect in the product ma'am, not failure to maintain it properly."

"Are the Mieles easier to maintain?"

"Yes. They are durable, stop the brush when it jams, have a thermal overload protector, tell when the bag needs to be changed. In 20 years as a Miele dealer, I have seen less then half a dozen motor repairs. period."

"Maybe I'll bring my husband in"

"Please do, I'll be happy to show the both of you the Miele advantage."


After she left, I asked him how he could be so cheerful and patient. He replied, "She's another Miele customer, she just doesn't know it yet.  For every sale I do at least three demos to the same customer before they part with the money.  There is a reason I specialize in Sanitaire and Miele. There are maybe six other new vacuums in my shop ,total, all proven sellers, that meet a specific price point and specific need. I fix their vacuums quickly, reasonably, and competently. That's how I earn their trust. I don't flit all over trying this thing and that. They see the same brands featured each time they come in. They don't see the vacuums I sell with repair tags on them. Eventually, it sinks in. And if it doesn't, there's still the 30 bucks a pop. I can dismantle, wash, disinfect, and shine up a bagless vacuum in under 20 minutes. I keep a supply of used filters blown out and ready to go. With selling belts, I can turn 100.00/hr.  WHY would I do it any other way?   He's found a way to make the BBR work for him.

Thanks for the laughs guys.  Hilarious!

I asked an old-time dealer once...  “What percentage of dealers do you think lie?”  He replied...”They all do.”