Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Hey guys I saw this pair online - what do you think?

HeyVerne wrote:
Vern, your link did not work.  Here is the fix...  go back re-edit/redo the hyperlink (pair online).  Firefox never puts links correctly the first time, you have to post once and then go back and re-edit the hyperlink.  When you go back you'll see some javascript language there, just erase this and past the original URL again.


Example:

Dyson - how it works without a re-edit.

Dyson - how it works after a re-edit (posting once and then going back a second time to re-edit).

DIB:

Thanks for posting the dyson Web Site.  I scrolled down and noted as I posted that dyson is now sold in only 6 countries worldwide:  UK, USA, CAN, JAPAN, AUSTRALIA and Austria.  I note the change is as of January 1, 2010.  If I recall correctly, maybe not, dyson retrenched from over 31 countries at the height of its sales curve back to 6 now.  I suspect the cut back is in hope of reducing expenses and costs, primarily transportation which are high for appliances like vacuums, and improve profits by eliminating markets that are not profit makers, but losses, for the company.  Have to wait and see if the move by Sir James is successful and to what degee. 

Carmine D.

Dib-ster:

The upshot of dyson's retrenchment of global markets sadly is that more than likely employees will probably have to be let go.  Not a good thing for dyson and its workforce.  Hopefully, other vacuum companies will pick them up and/or the layoff will be temporary.  If the economic tsunami abates perhaps they will be re-employed and/or reduced to part time employees rather than unemployment. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Not sure what your news on Dyson sale being restricted to 6 countries is based on, but going by the web site drop down on the Dyson web site, it's products are shown as being sold in the following locations :-

• United Kingdom
• Japan
• Australia
• Austria
• Belgium
• Canada
• China
• Cyprus
• Czech Republic
• Denmark
• Finland
• France
• Germany
• Greece
• Hong Kong
• Indonesia
• Ireland
• Israel
• Italy
• Mexico
• Netherlands
• New Zealand
• Norway
• Poland
• Portugal
• Russia
• Singapore
• Slovakia
• Slovenia
• South Africa
• South Korea
• Spain
• Sweden
• Switzerland
• Taiwan
• Turkey
• United Arab Emirates
• USA
  

With regards to Dyson's own view on recent performance, they provide the following text on recent press releases, etc. :-

Dyson began fourteen years ago with James Dyson and a handful of engineers questioning everyday products, thinking differently and making them better. We are now the world's number one vacuum cleaner manufacturer in the UK, US, Tokyo, Western Europe and Australasia.

• The headquarters at Malmesbury, Wiltshire is home to around 300 engineers and scientists who constantly strive to develop new and better technologies.
• Over the last five years, Dyson has quadrupled the amount it invests on RDD

The other day, the following statement was issued:-

Dyson Plans To Expand Facility In Malaysia
LONDON, Jan 16 (Bernama) -- Dyson Limited, the world's largest vacuum cleaner manufacturer, plans to expand its production facility in Malaysia, said its International and Commercial Director Sir Richard Needham.

The company had just closed its manufacturing facility in China, and was taking steps to move them to Malaysia, particularly for its new products, he told reporters here.

Dyson controls 35 per cent of the world's vacuum cleaner market by value and is the number one seller in United States, Europe, Australasia and Russia and number two in Japan.

...its Malaysian facility in Johor also produced the bladeless fan which had sold out its three month production in Australia in merely one week.

---

No mention of radical action being taken in the face of supposed falling sales...

M00seUK wrote:

Hello M00seUK:

While I'd really like to believe you, sadly my drop down shows 6 countries only and has since January 1.  This conforms with rumors I heard that dyson planned a huge cut back in markets that were severely hit by the economic global malaise.   Perhaps with the dyson downsizing, closing the factory in China, which I understand was the model of sophisticated robotics that built the DDM, is a logical business move.  It will take time, money and effort to rebuild and assimilate those operations into the existing/expanded Malay plant.  Probably months.  It would have made more sense from a business continuity approach, if the China operations were phased out over time while transitioning to the Malays.  When cost cutting is key, dyson like other companies doesn't have the financial luxury to overlap costly operations at 2 different sites at the same time. 

WRT dyson's self-reporting on its status, I'm suspect.  It's like asking the Democrats last night on the eve of the Senate election in Massachusetts if Martha Coakley would be victorious.  They all, starting with President Obama down to Speaker Nancy Pelosi, predicted a Democratic win.  They would have been right too except after all the votes were counted, Scott Brown ended up with more by a margin of 52% to 47 %.  Strange too, because only 30 days ago, Coakley at a 30 point lead in the polls.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Hello Carmine - I think you're mistaken. It only show the 6 locations you've stated when you click on it, but if you click and drag down the box on the right-hand side, you should find it scrolls and reveals the ones I've given above. Let me know if you can confirm that and we'll put that part of the conspiracy theory to bed.

I agree that the Dyson statement that they're shut down production in China and are in process of moving to Malaysia sounds revealing. If I recall correctly, the Dyson Digital Motor and Airblade production took place in China. The Dyson Digital Motor V2 (the smaller version, used in the handheld vac / air multiplier) is shown to be produced on a largely automated production line. Not sure if this is in China or not, but it's modular design makes it look like it could be packed up and shipped anywhere at a moments notice - however I would suspect that this is already in Malaysia. In turn inventories for the DDM V1 and Airblade might be relatively stable, with the downturn in the construction market and it not being subject to seasonal demand, making a move for this line feasible. As ever, lots of speculation on what we don't really know in reality.

If Dyson truly did sell it's 3-month production of blade-less fans within one week at around 200 GBP a pop, then it certainly sounds like it well on it's way for RoI for that product. The sales margin must be crazy.

M00seUK wrote:

Sorry M00seUK.  Unless you have a Mighty Mouse and I have a weakling I only show 6 countries with all my clicking and dragging.   I hope I'm wrong and dyson is going great guns worldwide with sales.  But I have no verification of that at this time.  In fact, just the opposite.  Prior to the Web Site change on January 1, 2010, I read accounts on the internet of falling dyson sales, by non-dyson sources, in foreign countries that showed year over year declines that put at risk keeping the markets open.  Ireland is one country/market that comes to mind off the top of my head.  Tho you show it as still available.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Moose is correct Carmine.  Maybe your computer is like Oreck.  Poor performer.

Here is a likn for Belgium  http://www.dyson.be/    -  Czech Republic  http://www.cz.dyson.com/

There are many more as Moose stated.

HARDSELL wrote:

Hello HS:

Your link works as well as the dyson site drop down.  I'll stick with my ORECK, thank you. 

The irony of bad financial news, especially for companies use to having and reporting just good news for years, no matter how they couch it, twist it, spin it, and attempt to corroborate it in a good light, its still bad news.   

For bad news, here is one dyson user's account.  There's more too.  Carmine D.

Non sequitur (pronounced /nɒnˈsɛkwɪtər/) is Latin for "it does not follow." It is most often used as a noun to describe illogical statements.

Non sequitur may refer to:

• Non sequitur, an irrelevant, often humorous comment to a preceding topic or statement.
• Non sequitur (logic), a logical fallacy where a stated conclusion is not supported by its premise.

Hi M00seUK:

I thought the same after reading your and HS's posts.  Vatican 11 scrubbed Latin as the official language of the Mass in favor of the the vernacular.  While I prefer Latin myself, I must admit that the masses have rallied around the Masses in their native tongue.

However, with Sir James keeping news, especially bad, close to his vest, whether he used Latin or not, it would not matter.

Carmine D. 

CarmineD wrote:

Being an honest company Dyson does not edit out the negative reviews.  Oreck on the other hand seems to only allow positive reviews on their site.  We know that all users are not satisfied with Oreck.  I just did not bother to post on the Oreck site.

BTW, I ask again.  How do all the vac shops make a profit since most do not repair Dysons?  Do you think the vac shop referenced by the lady above made his living repairing Dysons?  I suspect all depend on all the other brand repairs to make their profits.

If you really want to add meat to your argument why not tell us the % of negatives vs positives on Dyson reviews.  They receive more stars on any site I have visited.  Keep trying.

HARDSELL wrote:

HS:

I've suggested before and again:  Jon Huntsman's book: "Winners never cheat."

As Katherine I from Mass notes in her comments about her dyson repair:  If dyson said on TV:  Never clogs, never loses suction, it must be true, right?  Sadly, wrong.  For Katherine and other dyson buyers who bought into the superior dyson pitch [some even say lies] over the product performance.

Carmine D. 

HARDSELL wrote:

HS:

That is a soup question worthy of answer.  Correcting you:  Most indies do not sell new dysons.  Most do repair them and as you see from above the standard dyson fee charged at least by this shop is $53-$80 +, depending on whether one/more of the lifetime dyson filters need replacement .  Some would say the cost of a new HOOVER TEMPO with a ONE year unconditional warranty, which by chance Consumer Reports consistently rates over any/all dysons ranging in price from $400 up to $600. 

Gee!  I think I just answered the SEVERUS question to you:  What vacuum gives the most bang for the buck.  See what you can do even without a doctorate degree in Philosophy.  Provide meaningful information with answers to questions.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

HS:

That is a soup question worthy of answer.  Correcting you:  Most indies do not sell new dysons.  Most do repair them and as you see from above the standard dyson fee charged at least by this shop is $53-$80 +, depending on whether one/more of the lifetime dyson filters need replacement .  Some would say the cost of a new HOOVER TEMPO with a ONE year unconditional warranty, which by chance Consumer Reports consistently rates over any/all dysons ranging in price from $400 up to $600. 

Gee!  I think I just answered the SEVERUS question to you:  What vacuum gives the most bang for the buck.  See what you can do even without a doctorate degree in Philosophy.  Provide meaningful information with answers to questions.

Carmine D.

You corrected nothing.  I never said that inides sell Dyson.  I simply implied that all the other brands have so many problems that the indies make good profits keeping them running.  OTH, Dyson seems to be non profitable because repairs are too few to support an indie.

More would say that the throw away Tempo is not as good as Dyson.  Some also say that Oreck gives the least bang for the buck.  I told Severus that cleaning performance (to me) was the most bang for the buck in a vacuum.  I suppose I added another refurb t the Oreck list.

CarmineD wrote:

HS:

I've suggested before and again:  Jon Huntsman's book: "Winners never cheat."

As Katherine I from Mass notes in her comments about her dyson repair:  If dyson said on TV:  Never clogs, never loses suction, it must be true, right?  Sadly, wrong.  For Katherine and other dyson buyers who bought into the superior dyson pitch [some even say lies] over the product performance.

Carmine D. 

You are only assuming the problem was Dyson's.  You did not see the condition of the vac.  If it was overfilled I would expect the cat hair to be trapped.  Most pet owners are not savy enough to know that the hair can clog.  Why not contact the shop and see what they say? I would suspect that most vac problems are user related as they are in most consumer goods. 

HARDSELL wrote:

HS:

Probably a mix of both user and product related problems.  Consumers don't read manuals and follow directions correctly.  The more complicated/expensive the vacuum brand, the higher the repair and maintenance costs: i.e dyson repairs.  As Tom G and others stated, dysons really need to be demoed properly to customers. Dysons, as bagless vacuums, require meticulous care to dump the dirt bin faithfully and clean/wash the filters regularly.  In a way, just like Rainbows.

The simpler/easier the vacuums, the less expensive the repairs.  It would take 5-10 ORECK/TEMPO repairs to make the profit from one dyson repair.  Factor this into the SEVERUS question:  What vacuum[s] provide[s] the most bang for the buck?  Brands with less expensive repairs and/or user friendly repairs: i.e repairs that can be done by users like ORECK and HOOVER TEMPO rate higher grades for customers than dysons which rate lower grades.

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

HS:

While it appears less likely to toss a $500 vacuum versus a $50, I have seen as many dysons in city dumps and trash as HOOVER Tempos.  The decision to toss is a personal/people one based on costs to repair not necessarily a product one.  Certainly from my own personal research, the brand most likely not to be claimed both before and/or after repair is dyson.  Hence, the huge and pervasive sale of dyson refurbs.  As you noted in the example, the vacuum store clerk said if the dyson repair exceeded $80, the customer would get called to get an okay to proceed.  The dyson repair if filters were needed easily would have cost $120.  $53 for the service and another $60 for filters for a total of $113 before tax.  The price of 2 new Tempo's and one rebuilt Oreck.

Carmine D. 

CarmineD wrote:

HS:

While it appears less likely to toss a $500 vacuum versus a $50, I have seen as many dysons in city dumps and trash as HOOVER Tempos.  The decision to toss is a personal/people one based on costs to repair not necessarily a product one.  Certainly from my own personal research, the brand most likely not to be claimed both before and/or after repair is dyson.  Hence, the huge and pervasive sale of dyson refurbs.  As you noted in the example, the vacuum store clerk said if the dyson repair exceeded $80, the customer would get called to get an okay to proceed.  The dyson repair if filters were needed easily would have cost $120.  $53 for the service and another $60 for filters for a total of $113 before tax.  The price of 2 new Tempo's and one rebuilt Oreck.

Carmine D. 

Spend  a few $ and continue using the Dyson.  The problem would not occur with Oreck because it would not pick up enough to clog.

Buy an Oreck to use electricity and live in filth.  Buy a Dyson and maintain a clean home.

Or buy a Tempo and Oreck to half ast do as much as a single Dyson. 

HARDSELL wrote:

HS:

Using both a HOOVER TEMPO and ORECK XL Classic for rug/floor cleaning, I replace the paper bags in each about every two months.  When I do insert a new bag, I opine that the full paper bags contain about 5 times more dirt [conservatively speaking] than a full DC07 dirt bin.  I wouldn't expect 20 percent of the dirt I normally pick up with my $75 HOOVER TEMPO and/or $150 ORECK to clog any vacuum let alone one that retails for $400 plus like dyson.   I must admit however I might be wrong.  Maybe it can.  Perhaps that is the reason you sold your DC07 after 3 years and bought/currently use a HOOVER Platinum bagged Lightweight.  Having used both these models, HOOVER bagged Platinum light and DC07 pink, I would vote for the HOOVER too just as you.  The bag has a usable capacity comparable to my ORECK and slighly more than my HOOVER TEMPO.

Carmine D.