Vacuum Cleaners Discussions |
|
retardturtle1
Joined: May 16, 2009
Points: 358
![]()
|
 |
Re: bagless kirby conversion
Reply #87 Jan 19, 2010 6:18 pm |
|
Dib-ster: The bagless fad's legacy in the USA, not sure about elsewhere, will be handhelds, sticks, robots, central vacuum systems and perhaps some applications for commercial vacuums/cleaning services. WRT full size household vacuums, canisters and uprights, bagless will be primarily the venue for less expensive, non-repairable and use/dispose brands and models sold primarily through big box stores. Bagged vacuums have been and will continue as the vacuum of choice for the majority of American consumers, households, motels, hotels, hospitals, restaurants and all other applications. Dyson made an ignoble attempt, through slick pitches and claims, to conquer and destroy the bagged vacuum industry as we know it. He tried to make it exclusively bagless. [Why is the question]. He failed. It didn't work. It won't work for all the reasons already detailed here. You should be content in knowing that the legacy of your fave innovator Sir James is this: A high priced bagless vacuum with a niche market in the USA. Sir James will have to work very hard in the future, just like all the other vacuum makers have, to attract and keep customers buying his brand/models. That's dyson's number one goal and mission now. [Not warring against bagged vacuums]. By him reducing vacuum operations from 31 plus global markets to only 6 [US, CAN, AUSTRALIA, AUSTRIA, JAPAN, and UK] in 2010, Sir James and dyson are making a realistic start. Carmine D.
HI CARMINE
Ive yet to see any bagless upright stand up to commercial use.....they come in D.O.A..... ..never returning to work. Bagged is the way to go...ive also noticed that those who once ordered sanitaires w/ shake out bags...hate them and order the bag set up.....the majority of our vac sales are to previous bagless owners...who went bagged then bagless then back to bagged.....within a year or two. Full bag out......new bag in and your done. But i will say that bagless cans do seem to hold up very well....only come in for annual/bi-annual full service.....pretty solid machines from what ive seen.
|
CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
![]()
|
|
|
Re: bagless kirby conversion
Reply #88 Jan 19, 2010 6:35 pm |
|
...or we could turn that argument around and say that some folks here persistently said that Dyson should improve in that area... as soon as they're seen to improve, they're still beating the drum, because they didn't once upon a time...
Hello M00seUK:
Dib-ster is trying to have it both ways. So is Sir James. And you too with the above argument. You want to say that Sir James had it right with the floating head and no adjustments for the reasons he stated: People don't use the adjustments properly anyway. Then, after the defunct clutches and floating heads proved problematic on many USA carpets, Sir James got it right by adding adjustments that require manual setting, save the automatic default to medium when you power up. Perhaps, Sir James is trying for run as a Parliament Member, and practicing being all things to all people. Dyson is by no means the first brand to have fingertip controls for rug height adjustments. The HOOVER Z had them before dyson and so did the EUREKA lux Intensity. These two models have been maligned either by Sir James/dyson fans. The Intensity via a formal grievance with the ASA by Sir James. The HOOVER Z by dyson admirers who impugn its lackluster sales at big box stores. Yet both were good enough to be copied by dyson at least WRT the the fingertip control rug height adjustments. Then too dyson copied the floating head from HOOVER's Dial-A-Matic................from 1963. That's innovative? Quick, get me a dictionary so I can see if the definition changed and no-one told me. Carmine D.
This message was modified Jan 19, 2010 by CarmineD
|
DysonInventsBig
Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454
![]()
|
|
|
Re: bagless kirby conversion
Reply #90 Jan 19, 2010 11:39 pm |
|
DIB I gotta say ,excellent point on the floating head....as i personally prefer the floating head over the manual setting. Never really seen where one cleans better than the other ... turtle1 Thank you. I believe going with a floating head was a genius business-move. Dyson Invents Big
|
DysonInventsBig
Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454
![]()
|
|
|
Re: bagless kirby conversion
Reply #91 Jan 20, 2010 12:13 am |
|
Dustmite,
Just for fun, how does Dyson advise you to pick the height setting? Do they provide working definitions for short, deep, and medium pile carpeting?
As for the ideal system of adjustment, I would think that Sebo/Windsor is close to the ideal with it's automatic height adjustment. Jughead, From the Dyson DC28 manual... For the best cleaning performance Dyson recommends the following cleaner settings:Setting Carpet/floor type Deep pile - Plush, multi-styles and shag Medium pile - Level-loops and lighter plush Short pile - Commercial grade carpets and Wilton styles Bare floor - Delicate rugs/carpets, floorboards, tiling, laminates, vinyl, etc.
|
CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
![]()
|
|
|
Re: bagless kirby conversion
Reply #92 Jan 20, 2010 6:44 am |
|
True.
Dib-ster:
I didn't realize it was a true or false test. I thought the answer was multiple choice and "all of the above." Carmine D.
|
CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
![]()
|
|
|
Re: bagless kirby conversion
Reply #93 Jan 20, 2010 6:53 am |
|
Jughead,
From the Dyson DC28 manual...
For the best cleaning performance Dyson recommends the following cleaner settings:
Setting Carpet/floor type
Deep pile - Plush, multi-styles and shag
Medium pile - Level-loops and lighter plush
Short pile - Commercial grade carpets and Wilton styles
Bare floor - Delicate rugs/carpets, floorboards, tiling, laminates, vinyl, etc.
Dib-ster:
You know what? When the sales person at BEST BUY demo'ed the DC28 to me this past June, she left it on the medium setting after she powered on. I dumped the dirt and debris from a display DC14 bin on the low pile rug and asked her to vacuum it up. She left the rug height setting on medium. She passed over the area one time back and forth and didn't get it all up. I stopped her in the process. I hit the low setting and I made one pass and picked up everything that was left. She saw the result. She said to me I don't like the low setting because it's too hard to push and pull. So I leave it on the medium setting. Gee, that sounds familiar. Let's see. First, people don't read User manuals. Second, they don't set proper rug height adjustments. Third, why bother with them? Give them a floating head and tell them one size fits all. Bingo. I mean EUREKA! The answer. Now, true or false? Carmine D.
|
CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
![]()
|
|
|
Re: bagless kirby conversion
Reply #94 Jan 20, 2010 6:58 am |
|
HI CARMINE Ive yet to see any bagless upright stand up to commercial use.....they come in D.O.A..... ..never returning to work. Bagged is the way to go...ive also noticed that those who once ordered sanitaires w/ shake out bags...hate them and order the bag set up.....the majority of our vac sales are to previous bagless owners...who went bagged then bagless then back to bagged.....within a year or two. Full bag out......new bag in and your done. But i will say that bagless cans do seem to hold up very well....only come in for annual/bi-annual full service.....pretty solid machines from what ive seen.
Hello Turtle1:
Hence, the reason I used "perhaps." As in.... perhaps a floating head is good on most carpets but most definitely not all. Especially if you have a clutch that makes gawdawful ratcheting noises whenever the brush bar is stalled.  Carmine D.
|
CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
![]()
|
|
|
Re: bagless kirby conversion
Reply #95 Jan 20, 2010 7:04 am |
|
Thank you.
I believe going with a floating head was a genius business-move.
Dyson Invents Big
Dib-ster:
Hence the reason Tom G always said dyson needs a vacuum historian who can help him and dyson get it right. While Tom and I don't always see eye to eye on vacuum matters, we do on this one. Didn't work for HOOVER in 1963 and the company quickly added a manual rug height adjustment then self power. Didn't work for dyson in 2002 and FINALLY after 7 years added a fingertip control that other makers already had. Innovation? Genius? Quick, get that dictionary again. Somebody changed the definition and didn't tell me. Carmine D.
|
HARDSELL
Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293
![]()
|
|
|
Re: bagless kirby conversion
Reply #96 Jan 20, 2010 7:22 am |
|
Dib-ster: You know what? When the sales person at BEST BUY demo'ed the DC28 to me this past June, she left it on the medium setting after she powered on. I dumped the dirt and debris from a display DC14 bin on the low pile rug and asked her to vacuum it up. She left the rug height setting on medium. She passed over the area one time back and forth and didn't get it all up. I stopped her in the process. I hit the low setting and I made one pass and picked up everything that was left. She saw the result. She said to me I don't like the low setting because it's too hard to push and pull. So I leave it on the medium setting. Gee, that sounds familiar. Let's see. First, people don't read User manuals. Second, they don't set proper rug height adjustments. Third, why bother with them? Give them a floating head and tell them one size fits all. Bingo. I mean EUREKA! The answer. Now, true or false? Carmine D. Too bad Oreck doesn't have a low setting. They certainly will not pick up in one pass on carpet.
|
|
|
