Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

I'm not very impressed with the design, but there's a guy who offers a way to convert Kirbys from bag to dirt canister.  Unfortunately, it doesn't offer dual cyclone or better technology.  It looks like you clean the pleated filter after every use.  I think I'd rather pay for bags than this gimmick.

http://www.kirbybagsneveragain.com/

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Dib:

Your perspective, if its 80 percent bagless, is wrong.  Using one retailer's venue of bagless brands in stock as a standard on which to extrapolate the entire universe, being 20 MILLION new vacuum sales in the USA per year [not counting sticks and handhelds] is equally disengenuous.   The trend to watch, which is supported by bagless users' statements is that new bagless vacuum sales, including your fave brand, have lost total market share year over year in recent years.  While bagged sales have trended higher in the same time periods. 

I admire your enthusiasm to pitch bagless still.  Although, most bagless users are getting tired of them and reverting back to bagged as the need arises.  Sticks and handhelds are the exceptions.  They are gaining ground in bagless sales, as I expected and predicted years ago here. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

An educated guess would be the appeal of not having to buy bags. The thought of having to lay out cash one time for a disposable machine outweighs the negatives. Most people don't stop to think about how messy bagless machines can really be, they only think that it will be easier, faster, cheaper to deal with. Experience tells a far different story in the real world. Most of the high end vacuums that I've seen on the market today require bags, Kirby, Miele, Riccar etc.. . There must be something to this......

I decided to confront Jim Keeler on his shoddy design and the only thing he offered me was a free filter for my trouble. I think that at the very least he should have offered to exchange this less than desirable product for one that wasn't broken on arrival. He actually suggested on the phone that I go out and buy a hot glue gun to repair it myself. LOL, that's customer service for ya. I can tell that he spent a lifetime selling things to people. He is one smooth talker on the phone. See below for a written response from him that I got last night....

I have made a lot of the units and none of the lids have leaked before, that is why I use that canister. I have tried many different jars over the 3 years that I have been building the conversions. Clear shipping tape on the inside and outside will also work. You can use the plastic from a bakery plastic container. Just get a piece that is thick, like the plastic lid from a bakery pie pan. That will work in a pinch and it will accept the glue well. It sound like you know your stuff. Thanks for the input. Jim

----- Original Message -----

From: jhannah

To: Sales at affordablevac

Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 11:01 PM

Subject: Re: Receipt for your PayPal payment to affordablevac

Update: I decided to use Duct Tape until such a time when I can find a suitable piece of lexan to use as a patch. I have the proper glue for lexan that I use to repair the windshield of my aircraft but that glue will not work with the type of plastic you supplied. It will not bond with the plastic at all. I will look for a hot glue gun this weekend or even a Plastic Epoxy (better choice) but my windshield repair glue works well with this canister so finding a suitable piece of lexan for a patch will solve the issue. I've also determined that the air leaks around the rim of the lid are located in the grooves of the twist locks. The air is following those grooves like an escape channel. Without a rubber O-Ring or some such the problem cannot be solved. The Eureka Optima canister that you used wasn't designed with the Kirby in mind. I don't think it can handle the airflow that is being asked of it now. Have you looked at any other canisters that have true root cyclone technology? Perhaps one of those can be adapted and work better than this design. I realize that keeping cost down is a factor as is "keeping it simple" but from my perspective I would rather pay more for a higher quality product. After all, those of us who use a Kirby purchased it because it was the best at any price. It's like buying a Mercedes and trying to retrofit a Toyota part to make it work like one.

jhannah wrote:

Excellent points.  The bagless pitch was superior to bagless experience.  Bagless pitches overshot the benefits.  Users who bought into the exaggerated bagless claims are left disappointed.  Add the costs for pre and post motor bagless filters [easily $50 for both depending on the brands/models] and the time, and effort to wash/dry the filters and constantly having to dump the bagless dirt bins.  Easy to understand the reasons for the trend.  Repeat bagless vacuum sales are falling out of favor while bagged sales are rebounding.

Carmine D.

jhannah:

Jim Keeler tried to capitalize on the bagless fad and perhaps grind an ax with Kirby.  Didn't work.  Perhaps you should tell him to read the thread here.  May be insightful for him in the future.  Tho may not, but at least you ca say you told him to do so.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

LOL, I may just do that. At least I got the last word in and I hope that my experience will help a few others make the right choice before they get taken to the cleaners.

CarmineD wrote:
Carmine,

Since the bulk of handhelds and sticks use a [bagless] dirt cup, your mentioning them only supports my 80% number.  What are you smokin?


Dyson Invents Big

DIB,

I don't know where you get that  80% of the Vacuum Cleaner market is  bagless. All you are looking at is the big box store inventory and not the other venues that sell vacuum cleaners. Out here in the real world people are being turned off to bagless and buying bagged. There are  a generation or 2 that have not relly expirienced the problems of bagless and listen to the hype in ads but when they expirience the problems of bagless first hand they ask -"Is there anything else out there with less headache?"  All the major brands are still selling bagged. If it were so great (bagless) all would sell it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                   Procare

  

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Dib-ster:

I don't smoke and/or drink.  You should try refraining from both too.  May improve your reading comprehension.

As I've said here oftentimes, sticks and handhelds are excellent venues for bagless dirt containment systems.  Full size vacuums for household usage, which sell 20 MILLION new units a year in most recent years, are better suited for bags for all the reasons illuminated on this thread.  For these reasons, full size bagged vacuum sales have gained market share in recent years while bagless vacuum sales, including your fave brand, are losing.  Add all the pros for bagged vacuums by Carpet and Rug Institute, Consumer Reports, and health care professionals for persons with allergies and breathing issues.  You have my friend a dirge for bagless in the future for full size vacuum sales including, your fave brand.

Carmine D.

procare wrote:
Procare,

The 80% number was reported here by Trebor after a conversation he had with Tom G..  Carmine an others pull many anti-Dyson claims out of thin-air which go unchallenged by the bag-sellers and bag-huggers here, so what’s wrong with going with this 80% number?

Who told you Dyson filtration is hype?  Science is not hype, unless one is talking with a competing vacuum bag manufacturer or their representation.  Excluding you, many bag-sellers and bag-huggers cannot get their heads around how to empty a Dyson with little to no dust plume and find reading and/or comprehending and/or following through with the manufacturers maintenance routine even a greater challenge.

With regards to ‘Dyson owner blame-Dyson delusional types’...  these too, find reading and/or comprehending and/or following through with the manufacturers maintenance routine a great challenge.

There are no dust plume or maintenance victim Dyson-owners, but there are some ‘bellyache like a victim’ Dyson-owners.


Dyson Invents Big