Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

I'm not very impressed with the design, but there's a guy who offers a way to convert Kirbys from bag to dirt canister.  Unfortunately, it doesn't offer dual cyclone or better technology.  It looks like you clean the pleated filter after every use.  I think I'd rather pay for bags than this gimmick.

http://www.kirbybagsneveragain.com/

Being a gadget freak I decided to buy one of the upright tornado cyclonic bagless conversion kits for my Sentria. It took Jim keeler exactly a month from the time I paid ($79.00) for it to the time it was delivered to my doorstep. Upon opening the box it was readily apparent to me that this thing was slapped together in a hurry. There are gobs of excess glue around the hole where the pipe was fitted to the canister, very low quality black paint on the PVC pipe and black magic marker used to fill in the spots where the paint didn't stick. The pipe on my unit was attached near the top of the unit almost touching the green cap which is not how it was pictured in his ad on ebay. BTW, he is no longer selling on ebay and has deleted his account. With the tube attached so high up on the chamber/cup it blows directly onto the filter which will cause it to clog faster IMHO. Since this bagless canister was designed for the Eureka it has a rectangular hole near the top opposite where Jim drilled the hole for the PVC pipe to be inserted. This rectangular hole was covered with a piece of cut out plastic and super glued into place. The glue holding this plastic patch in place was not very good and when I gently rubbed it with my finger it promptly fell off. I had to get some super glue and re-attach the patch to the hole before I could even try out the bagless conversion. When I attached it to my Sentria I observed that it rides about 2 inches off the floor at the most. The exhaust blows straight down onto the floor which is why this model isn't recommended for bare floors as it would just blow all the dirt around before the Kirby could suck it up. Another thing I noticed is that the green cap has no seal at all and air was blowing out around the cap. It was also escaping from the square patch area where it was glued because I didn't seem to get it sealed any better than Jim had. I ran the vacuum over my entire house and the thing that I don't like about this bagless conversion is that it allowed small amounts of dirt to escape through the leaky lid and patch. I know this to be the case because cat hair from my 2 cats was sticking halfway out in several spots on the patch and around the lid. Overall, I think my money would have been better spent on a 2 years supply of genuine Kirby bags. Now that I've seen Jim's idea in action I think I may tinker around and see if I can come up with something better using a root cyclone canister from a Dyson or Hoover. Sometimes keeping it simple as Jim Keeler proudly exclaims is NOT the best way to go, stupid.

Hello jhannah:

Thanks for the review and comments.  We know now thanks to you in large part how and why Jim Keeler got the price down from $150 to $79.  So much for the outstanding ebay reviews, and choruses of applause for a man who beats to his own drum and owes noone, KIRBY and/or his bagless converter customers, anything in the process. 

Carmine D.

Update, my super glue didn't hold the patch and it fell out again. I'm going to try PVC pipe glue and if that doesn't work then I'm going to give up. Jim Keeler got me good on this scam.....

Hi jhannah, Hmm . . . another bright idea for the "Don't Buy" list. Sorry to hear about the bad experience but somebody had to test it and, rest assured, we applaud you. The whole idea is tantamount to someone making a disposable kit for a Rainbow -- something that was never intended. Better to seek out a good bagless machine in the first place. Is the add-on doodad returnable? Kirby's are klutzy, heavy and old-fashioned BUT they are well put together and well thought out as I have to say the G series can clean like the dickens. I've always felt this bagless add-on thingy was totally unnecessary. Both versions of it lend nothing to making the cleaner easily mobile in tight surrounds. Best Venson

Venson wrote:

I don't think I can return it. I'm not really all that upset because I didn't expect much from this thing to begin with. I really like my Kirby bag and all. I know it's not the most maneuverable or agile machine but as you say it cleans like the dickens and it's built to last. This conversion was just a toy for me to play with and I think I'll explore using the root cyclone canister of a Dyson or Hoover just to see if I can beat Jim Keeler at his own game. Honestly I don't really like a bagless. They're just messy when you dump the dirt out. A bag is far easier to work with if you ask me. Just something to pass the time......

jhannah wrote:

I hear this more and more from bagless customers.  The bagless vacuum pitch is superior to the product.  With time and experience, vacuum customers learned what vacuum pros knew and told them all along: Bags are beautiful.

Carmine D.

jhannah wrote: CarmineD wrote:
Carmine,

If more and more bagless users are complaining, then why is the market share becoming more and more dominated by bagless?  One of the posters here said 80% of the [consumer] market is bagless.  My local Target retailers reflect this number (only one tired bagged vacuum remains).  Outside of commercial, the bagged vacuum is proving more and more of a looser, and on many levels.


Dyson Invents Big

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Dib:

Your perspective, if its 80 percent bagless, is wrong.  Using one retailer's venue of bagless brands in stock as a standard on which to extrapolate the entire universe, being 20 MILLION new vacuum sales in the USA per year [not counting sticks and handhelds] is equally disengenuous.   The trend to watch, which is supported by bagless users' statements is that new bagless vacuum sales, including your fave brand, have lost total market share year over year in recent years.  While bagged sales have trended higher in the same time periods. 

I admire your enthusiasm to pitch bagless still.  Although, most bagless users are getting tired of them and reverting back to bagged as the need arises.  Sticks and handhelds are the exceptions.  They are gaining ground in bagless sales, as I expected and predicted years ago here. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

An educated guess would be the appeal of not having to buy bags. The thought of having to lay out cash one time for a disposable machine outweighs the negatives. Most people don't stop to think about how messy bagless machines can really be, they only think that it will be easier, faster, cheaper to deal with. Experience tells a far different story in the real world. Most of the high end vacuums that I've seen on the market today require bags, Kirby, Miele, Riccar etc.. . There must be something to this......

I decided to confront Jim Keeler on his shoddy design and the only thing he offered me was a free filter for my trouble. I think that at the very least he should have offered to exchange this less than desirable product for one that wasn't broken on arrival. He actually suggested on the phone that I go out and buy a hot glue gun to repair it myself. LOL, that's customer service for ya. I can tell that he spent a lifetime selling things to people. He is one smooth talker on the phone. See below for a written response from him that I got last night....

I have made a lot of the units and none of the lids have leaked before, that is why I use that canister. I have tried many different jars over the 3 years that I have been building the conversions. Clear shipping tape on the inside and outside will also work. You can use the plastic from a bakery plastic container. Just get a piece that is thick, like the plastic lid from a bakery pie pan. That will work in a pinch and it will accept the glue well. It sound like you know your stuff. Thanks for the input. Jim

----- Original Message -----

From: jhannah

To: Sales at affordablevac

Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 11:01 PM

Subject: Re: Receipt for your PayPal payment to affordablevac

Update: I decided to use Duct Tape until such a time when I can find a suitable piece of lexan to use as a patch. I have the proper glue for lexan that I use to repair the windshield of my aircraft but that glue will not work with the type of plastic you supplied. It will not bond with the plastic at all. I will look for a hot glue gun this weekend or even a Plastic Epoxy (better choice) but my windshield repair glue works well with this canister so finding a suitable piece of lexan for a patch will solve the issue. I've also determined that the air leaks around the rim of the lid are located in the grooves of the twist locks. The air is following those grooves like an escape channel. Without a rubber O-Ring or some such the problem cannot be solved. The Eureka Optima canister that you used wasn't designed with the Kirby in mind. I don't think it can handle the airflow that is being asked of it now. Have you looked at any other canisters that have true root cyclone technology? Perhaps one of those can be adapted and work better than this design. I realize that keeping cost down is a factor as is "keeping it simple" but from my perspective I would rather pay more for a higher quality product. After all, those of us who use a Kirby purchased it because it was the best at any price. It's like buying a Mercedes and trying to retrofit a Toyota part to make it work like one.