Vacuum Cleaners Discussions |
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Venson
Joined: Jul 23, 2007
Points: 1900
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Jimmy Dyson does try hard . . .
Original Message Oct 21, 2009 6:59 pm |
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Severus
If my vacuum can remove even one spec of dirt that yours misses, then mine is better than yours - even if there's no proof that mine would have picked up as much dirt as yours...
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 397
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Re: Jimmy Dyson does try hard . . . (older Dysons still working)
Reply #40 Nov 5, 2009 11:12 pm |
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CR first tested the DC07 in '02 and Dyson has been above-average in reliability even concerning cleaners purchased before 2004 (in earlier articles). But regardless of how you want to look at it, the fact that any cleaner can withstand 5+ years' worth of heavy use in the average American household these days is pretty damned impressive. Besides vacuum cleaners, look at how most people treat their homes, cars, washing machines, etc...sure, we can argue that things may not be made as well as they used to be, but the idea of taking care of something so it can last has become a completely foreign concept. Why do that when you can plunk down another $500 (or a few thousand, or 40 grand, depending on what it is...) when it breaks and have a new one? Don't get the wrong idea - I'm not disagreeing with you. My only point is that the value of CR's reliability data is somewhat limited. Unlike the performance tests which are done under like conditions, the reliability data is survey based. As one who faithfully fills out the forms each year, I know that the forms are not as thorough as I'd prefer. I would be surprised if Tom Gasko's Dysons didn't last at least 20 years. Tom is meticulous about maintaining his Dysons.
The smart tyrant writes his own story to ensure that it is favorable. The lazy will repeat lines from the book without fact checking.
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: Jimmy Dyson does try hard . . .
Reply #42 Nov 6, 2009 6:34 am |
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True enough, Severus, but let's assume a 50% return rate, and 50% refurb. That is still new 2,000 vacuums per day, net, 365,000 per year. Not numbers to sneeze at. Not when you are talking about an average purchase price of $400.00 plus When I worked at an appliance retailer that sold Dysons, the retailer had an agreement with Dyson to honor an over the counter exchange for the life of the 5 year warranty. Talk about abused vacuums! People would roll them in cracked, stuffed, and ripped to shreds. All we could do was take them back and issue a new one. I don't know if the agreement is still the same, as I am no longer there, but it was Dyson's nickel, not the store's so we couldn't do anything, because the customer would just scream, and the manager would cave. Not every Dyson came in looking like that, to be sure, and sometimes I think people just wanted a different color. I actually sold a number of the motorhead canisters, because I felt they were better than the uprights.
Hello Trebor:
It's not always JUST what you make [read sales] but what you spend [read expenses]. From posts here by supposed insiders, dyson currently employs 2,200 persons JUST at the Malmesbury plant. Not counting the contract staff in Malaysia. We know from dyson's own boasts that 450 of the 2,200 are engineers and scientists. What do you think the average salary of this group is? $80,000 per year. $100,000 per year? More? Then calculate the payroll for one year: $36 MILLION to $45 MILLION and perhaps realistically even more. How many dysons do you have to sell just to meet 1/4 of your payroll costs? Not counting raw materials, overhead, distribution costs, R&D, marketing, etc, etc. PS: I should have added on another 20-30 percent to the $36-$45 MILLION payroll number for retirement benefits, health costs coverage and bonuses. Carmine D.
This message was modified Nov 6, 2009 by CarmineD
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: Jimmy Dyson does try hard . . . (older Dysons still working)
Reply #44 Nov 6, 2009 6:41 am |
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Here's the exact statement from the CR web site concerning reliability methodology:
"Brand Reliability Kirby and Dyson have been among the more reliable brands of upright vacuums, Electrolux, Hoover and Simplicity among the less reliable. Rainbow and Dyson have been among the more reliable brands of full-size canister vacuums. That's what we found when we asked 156,000 readers who bought a vacuum between 2004 and 2008 about their experiences. The graph shows the percentage of brands that needed a repair or had a serious problem. (Belt replacement isn't included because it's usually an inexpensive fix.) Differences of less than 4 points aren't meaningful, and we've adjusted the data to eliminate differences linked solely to age and use of the vacuum. Models within a brand may vary, and design or manufacture changes may affect future reliability. Still, choosing a brand with a good repair history can improve your odds of getting a reliable model."
Please note that the reliability survey is in regards to recently purchased vacuums - 5 years old or less.
Hello SEVERUS:
At some point I expect Consumer reports to reconcile the quote I highlighted with dysons' belt replacements in DC07 and DC14 models. By inexpensive fix, CR presumes a $2-3 repair cost that in most cases customers/users can do themselves. As I recall, tho dyson claims these belts are lifetime, it recommneds that belt replacements should be done by authorized dyson dealers. The cost of the fix can be $35 to $100 and perhaps more depending on brush roll and clutch repairs that may be needed simultaneously. These clutch models, while discointinued, are probably the preponderence of dyson repairs. At some point the two differemces, CR's take on belt repairs and the reality of dyson belt repairs, will be reconciled into the data reliability data. When it does, what will happen? Carmine D.
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: Jimmy Dyson does try hard . . .
Reply #45 Nov 6, 2009 6:59 am |
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Trust me these reliability ratings are B.S. Having serviced every vacuum cleaner known to mankind, New or old American iron Euro plastic, orient express almost throw aways.
I have a kirby legend 2 small head, a D80 , that are trailer queens They are in mint condition and work propely, would that figure into cr ratings if i gave them that data on their surveys?
Because the BOZOS at Cr are clueless about what these models are or their ages.
Whats to say that the Dyson propaganda machine has not infiltrated CR with bogus surveys like they baraged the msn, and internet review sites.Like i said its all B.S.
O.K. dib show me what you got to rebuke my statements.
B.T.W its nice to see gasko on the forum again,at least he's got a clue on whats really going on with dyson.
REGARDS
MOLE
Hello MOLE:
I've always said if Consumer Reports really wants to get it right, it should factor into its vacuum reliability data survey information received from independent vacuum cleaner store owners and operators who repair vacuums. Carmine D.
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mole
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Location: earth
Joined: Sep 30, 2007
Points: 783
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Re: Jimmy Dyson does try hard . . .
Reply #46 Nov 6, 2009 7:21 am |
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Hello MOLE: I've always said if Consumer Reports really wants to get it right, it should factor into its vacuum reliability data survey information received from independent vacuum cleaner store owners and operators who repair vacuums. Carmine D. Hello Carmine, I agree with you, All macines have their own little quirks if they consulted the real industry pros they probaly would have no reliability ratings at all. It would go something like this,Orecks work and clean great till the belts stretch and the brush stops spinning ,although it still picks up well on hardwood floors,So we will give it a excellent on bare floors but unaceptabe for carpets.WHAT GIVES? Kirby great open area carpet vacuums but real customers hate using them,so we will give them excellent for durability.See where this is going. Raibow a real hightech airpollution device,but only those with a mechanical engineering background can use it.We will give it a fair rating. Cental vacuums THE HOSE IS TOO LONG,people hate taking the hose out of the closet,we will give it an excellent for longevity, Dyson hey what can we say due to the adverising and promotion well give it an excellent rating, Would we actually use one here at CR ? Sorry we cant answer that question, we dont want to piss off the Brits. MOLE
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DysonInventsBig
Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454
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Re: Jimmy Dyson does try hard . . .
Reply #47 Nov 6, 2009 10:43 am |
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Hello MOLE: I've always said if Consumer Reports really wants to get it right, it should factor into its vacuum reliability data survey information received from independent vacuum cleaner store owners and operators who repair vacuums. Carmine D. That’s a great idea. Why don’t you put a proposal together and present it to CR - ASAP. DIB
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DysonInventsBig
Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454
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Re: Jimmy Dyson does try hard . . .
Reply #49 Nov 6, 2009 12:47 pm |
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DIB,
10,000 comics on the streets and you think you're funny? Don't quit your day job.
Because I said it "could" be 51% I am Dyson bashing? Everyone who doesn't think James Dyson is worthy of sainthood, and that using a Dyson is an act of worship is Dyson bashing to you. You didn't jump on my reporting Dyson sales in the US by an industry insider, did you? Did it never occur to you that many of the people purchasing Dysons have never spent more than 100.00 on a vacuum in their lives, let alone properly maintain them. I see you did not respond to my challenge to logically explain why Dysons are to be the preferred brand purchase of a vacuum cleaner. You insult anyone who doesn't agree with you, and not very well, either, no originality.
Trebor,
the 8000 units per day isn't complete without knowing how many are returned, and how many sales are refurbs. There's an awful lot of refurbs for sale in a lot of venues. Venson, Awful lot? Does "awful lot" have a number and face? DIB
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