Vacuum Cleaners Discussions |
|
Venson
Joined: Jul 23, 2007
Points: 1900
![]()
|
 |
Jimmy Dyson does try hard . . .
Original Message Oct 21, 2009 6:59 pm |
|
|
dusty
Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Points: 264
![]()
|
 |
Re: Jimmy Dyson does try hard . . .
Reply #31 Nov 4, 2009 6:58 pm |
|
It's just that I continue to see so many Dysons come into my friend's shop for repair. Many people spend in excess of 100.00 to fix a vacuum less then 5 years old because the repair is not covered by warranty. Huh? Many say they will not buy another Dyson, but the repair is the same as a Big Box vac, and they do like the performance, and they don't want to shop for another vacuum, so they fork out $$$ for the repair. People do abuse their vacuums, and I would say the Dyson is more vulnerable to damage from abuse than many. Seeing the dirt seems to be a big deal. Maybe people vacuum more, and slower when they see the dirt swirling around. But if Dyson really is selling 8,000 cleaners a day, if they are in financial distress it has to be due to poor management, not an uncommon phenonemon
Hi Trebor, Hoover uprights and Electrolux canisters are our biggest source of repairs. I would offer that it's not because they are poor product but simply because there are so many of them out there. If Dyson is selling 8000 vacs in the US in depressed times I can only imagine how many have been sold in years previous and would expect to see a fair amount in for repair. As Dyson has only been in Canada for 3 years (and at last report still had the largest sales by dollar volume) we have yet to see many with problems. From our own experience, we've sold 112 units since January 1st of this year and have had 4 warranty claims. 2 DC24's with bad motors, a DC23 with a short in the power hose and a DC23 used to clean up a construction site (so it doesn't really count) All in all, it's not much different than our Sebo, Eurekalux, or Riccar lines. Like anything else on the market (except maybe Europro products IMO) as long as you take care of your equipment you're likely to have if for a long trouble free life. Dusty PS Customers love to see dirt swirl...makes them feel like the housework is worth it.
|
Trebor
Joined: Jan 16, 2009
Points: 321
![]()
|
|
|
Re: Jimmy Dyson does try hard . . .
Reply #32 Nov 4, 2009 9:39 pm |
|
DIB,
10,000 comics on the streets and you think you're funny? Don't quit your day job.
Because I said it "could" be 51% I am Dyson bashing? Everyone who doesn't think James Dyson is worthy of sainthood, and that using a Dyson is an act of worship is Dyson bashing to you. You didn't jump on my reporting Dyson sales in the US by an industry insider, did you? Did it never occur to you that many of the people purchasing Dysons have never spent more than 100.00 on a vacuum in their lives, let alone properly maintain them. I see you did not respond to my challenge to logically explain why Dysons are to be the preferred brand purchase of a vacuum cleaner. You insult anyone who doesn't agree with you, and not very well, either, no originality.
|
Severus
If my vacuum can remove even one spec of dirt that yours misses, then mine is better than yours - even if there's no proof that mine would have picked up as much dirt as yours...
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 397
![]()
|
|
|
Re: Jimmy Dyson does try hard . . .
Reply #33 Nov 5, 2009 1:38 am |
|
DIB,
10,000 comics on the streets and you think you're funny? Don't quit your day job.
Because I said it "could" be 51% I am Dyson bashing? Everyone who doesn't think James Dyson is worthy of sainthood, and that using a Dyson is an act of worship is Dyson bashing to you. You didn't jump on my reporting Dyson sales in the US by an industry insider, did you? Did it never occur to you that many of the people purchasing Dysons have never spent more than 100.00 on a vacuum in their lives, let alone properly maintain them. I see you did not respond to my challenge to logically explain why Dysons are to be the preferred brand purchase of a vacuum cleaner. You insult anyone who doesn't agree with you, and not very well, either, no originality.
Trebor, the 8000 units per day isn't complete without knowing how many are returned, and how many sales are refurbs. There's an awful lot of refurbs for sale in a lot of venues.
The smart tyrant writes his own story to ensure that it is favorable. The lazy will repeat lines from the book without fact checking.
|
Trebor
Joined: Jan 16, 2009
Points: 321
![]()
|
|
|
Re: Jimmy Dyson does try hard . . .
Reply #34 Nov 5, 2009 10:03 am |
|
Trebor,
the 8000 units per day isn't complete without knowing how many are returned, and how many sales are refurbs. There's an awful lot of refurbs for sale in a lot of venues. True enough, Severus, but let's assume a 50% return rate, and 50% refurb. That is still new 2,000 vacuums per day, net, 365,000 per year. Not numbers to sneeze at. Not when you are talking about an average purchase price of $400.00 plus When I worked at an appliance retailer that sold Dysons, the retailer had an agreement with Dyson to honor an over the counter exchange for the life of the 5 year warranty. Talk about abused vacuums! People would roll them in cracked, stuffed, and ripped to shreds. All we could do was take them back and issue a new one. I don't know if the agreement is still the same, as I am no longer there, but it was Dyson's nickel, not the store's so we couldn't do anything, because the customer would just scream, and the manager would cave. Not every Dyson came in looking like that, to be sure, and sometimes I think people just wanted a different color. I actually sold a number of the motorhead canisters, because I felt they were better than the uprights.
|
Motorhead
Joined: Nov 2, 2007
Points: 409
![]()
|
|
|
Re: Jimmy Dyson does try hard . . . (older Dysons still working)
Reply #35 Nov 5, 2009 1:27 pm |
|
Hello Everyone,
I spoke with a long-time acquaintance in the vac biz yesterday, none other than Tom G. He told me that Dyson USA is still selling 8,000 vacuum cleaners in the USA!
Since Tom is now employed by Tacony, and is no longer a vac shop owner, I have no reason to doubt his word. He is curator of a vacuum museum consisting of primarily his own vacuums, which he leases to Tacony. He gets to shop the 'net for antique vacs, (talk about your dream job!)
But I digress. According to Tom 85% of all vacuums sold are still bagless! People like seeing the dirt, and they hate having to remember to buy bags. People who buy a Dyson tell people, who buy one, and so on. People who buy any other brand don't tell nearly as many. ( I have to think if someone shelled out for a Kirby they would mention it to a few people.) I asked Tom about the longevity of the Dysons as in 'how many are still running after 10 years?' He replied, "Most of them." Of course 'most' could be 51%. Since Tom G. is no longer a Dyson dealer, and he works for one of the primary contenders in the marketplace, has access and time to research as well as being privy to inside info, I have no reason to doubt his word.
It's just that I continue to see so many Dysons come into my friend's shop for repair. Many people spend in excess of 100.00 to fix a vacuum less then 5 years old because the repair is not covered by warranty. Huh? Many say they will not buy another Dyson, but the repair is the same as a Big Box vac, and they do like the performance, and they don't want to shop for another vacuum, so they fork out $$$ for the repair. People do abuse their vacuums, and I would say the Dyson is more vulnerable to damage from abuse than many. Seeing the dirt seems to be a big deal. Maybe people vacuum more, and slower when they see the dirt swirling around. But if Dyson really is selling 8,000 cleaners a day, if they are in financial distress it has to be due to poor management, not an uncommon phenonemon
Carmine, I laughed so hard at the idea of you and I being the same poster I nearly fell off my chair! We are what, 15 years, 1500 plus miles, and a wife and child apart? But why stop at one? You, me, Severus/Venson, could all be the same person! I could just be a figment of your imagination! Or whoever is the real person's imagination. Not all multiple personalities are aware of each other, so (gasp) I could be DIB's alter ego and not even know it! This whole line of thought is moving me into the existential vacuum, and I'm unsure if it's bagless or not.
Trebor The facts don't lie, even CR ranks Dyson as one of their more reliable brands. For every Dyson that has had problems of some sort there are at least 10 still going strong and serving their owners faithfully. Speaking of Tom G., it is worth noting that he owns a prototype US DC07 from 1999, 2 years before Dyson "officially" arrived here. In the 10 years he has had it, it has not had a single repair, and for 9 of those years it served as the store vacuum for his old store. To say that it has received heavy, daily use there is an understatement. I also saw the machine over at the Museum in September, and when I spoke to Tom last week, he said he was still using it regularly there as well to clean the acres of carpeting in each historical section. That says a lot about performance and longevity...plenty of brand new, perfectly good Riccars and Simplicitys around and the trusty Dyson wins out every time for routine cleaning! For another example of Dyson longevity, look to the another cleaner at the museum, the 1983 Cyclon. Not only is it still perfectly functional, it does a surprisingly good job. Same can be said with the many British Dysons from the 1990's (DC02, DC03, DC05, et al.), nothing wrong with them at all. And while not necessarily Dyson per se (but very much Dyson designed and related), look at all of the 10+ year-old Fantoms that are still in use all over the States. Obviously, when any appliance is abused, it is not going to last as long, and even a well-engineered cleaner like the Dyson is no exception. Going back under the rock now and watching- MH
|
CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
![]()
|
|
|
Re: Jimmy Dyson does try hard . . . (older Dysons still working)
Reply #36 Nov 5, 2009 1:45 pm |
|
The facts don't lie, even CR ranks Dyson as one of their more reliable brands. For every Dyson that has had problems of some sort there are at least 10 still going strong and serving their owners faithfully.
Speaking of Tom G., it is worth noting that he owns a prototype US DC07 from 1999, 2 years before Dyson "officially" arrived here. In the 10 years he has had it, it has not had a single repair, and for 9 of those years it served as the store vacuum for his old store. To say that it has received heavy, daily use there is an understatement. I also saw the machine over at the Museum in September, and when I spoke to Tom last week, he said he was still using it regularly there as well to clean the acres of carpeting in each historical section. That says a lot about performance and longevity...plenty of brand new, perfectly good Riccars and Simplicitys around and the trusty Dyson wins out every time for routine cleaning!
For another example of Dyson longevity, look to the another cleaner at the museum, the 1983 Cyclon. Not only is it still perfectly functional, it does a surprisingly good job. Same can be said with the many British Dysons from the 1990's (DC02, DC03, DC05, et al.), nothing wrong with them at all. And while not necessarily Dyson per se (but very much Dyson designed and related), look at all of the 10+ year-old Fantoms that are still in use all over the States.
Obviously, when any appliance is abused, it is not going to last as long, and even a well-engineered cleaner like the Dyson is no exception.
Going back under the rock now and watching-
MH
As more data became available, Consumer Reports consistently rated Fantom uprights' reliability as the worse among all the brands exceeding 15 percent failure/repair rates year after year until CR dropped it from the survey.
Carmine D.
|
Motorhead
Joined: Nov 2, 2007
Points: 409
![]()
|
|
|
Re: Jimmy Dyson does try hard . . . (older Dysons still working)
Reply #37 Nov 5, 2009 2:29 pm |
|
As more data became available, Consumer Reports consistently rated Fantom uprights' reliability as the worse among all the brands exceeding 15 percent failure/repair rates year after year until CR dropped it from the survey. Carmine D. Hi Carmine, As with any "average vacuum owner" we can probably take into account that a lot of these Fantom owners had no idea how to properly use and care for their machines, either. The first Fantoms (and the previous SC Johnson Wax Vectron off of which the Fantom was based) did not have an exhaust filter...that was only added afterward, probably after the complaints of fine dust spewing from the machine while they were vacuuming with a much-too-full bin! Incidentally, the Fantoms I referenced have all been well-cared-for examples...just goes to show you that anything, when not abused, will have a long and useful life. These were also all Thunders, I have noticed that the Furys and Lightnings were not nearly as reliable as the Thunder seems to be what is mostly left nowadays. You do bring up a good point though in the sense that Fantoms left a lot to be improved on, and Dyson learned from that. I for one find them to be overly complicated and difficult to work on, and the brushroll was a weak spot for some (although there are plenty out there with good brushrolls, go figure!). With this I am referring to the original Iona Fantom/later Thunder, I have limited experience with the Fury and have not had a Lightning apart, though I have used several since they first came out around 12 years ago. I recently found a Thunder (from early '97) at the Goodwill and since it looked like it was in good shape I grabbed it. The motor ran fine but it had a nasty blockage in the dirt path that required disassembling the entire machine to remove. The original HEPA filter was also packed with dirt so it immediately went in the garbage. After cleaning the machine entirely, I can't believe how well it works for a 12 year-old cleaner. Also found out I didn't really need the exhaust filter, simply emptying the bin after each use as intended and not allowing it to become full eliminates that. Once again, it all goes back to proper care. -MH
|
Severus
If my vacuum can remove even one spec of dirt that yours misses, then mine is better than yours - even if there's no proof that mine would have picked up as much dirt as yours...
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 397
![]()
|
|
|
Re: Jimmy Dyson does try hard . . . (older Dysons still working)
Reply #38 Nov 5, 2009 5:45 pm |
|
The facts don't lie, even CR ranks Dyson as one of their more reliable brands. For every Dyson that has had problems of some sort there are at least 10 still going strong and serving their owners faithfully.
Speaking of Tom G., it is worth noting that he owns a prototype US DC07 from 1999, 2 years before Dyson "officially" arrived here. In the 10 years he has had it, it has not had a single repair, and for 9 of those years it served as the store vacuum for his old store. To say that it has received heavy, daily use there is an understatement. I also saw the machine over at the Museum in September, and when I spoke to Tom last week, he said he was still using it regularly there as well to clean the acres of carpeting in each historical section. That says a lot about performance and longevity...plenty of brand new, perfectly good Riccars and Simplicitys around and the trusty Dyson wins out every time for routine cleaning!
For another example of Dyson longevity, look to the another cleaner at the museum, the 1983 Cyclon. Not only is it still perfectly functional, it does a surprisingly good job. Same can be said with the many British Dysons from the 1990's (DC02, DC03, DC05, et al.), nothing wrong with them at all. And while not necessarily Dyson per se (but very much Dyson designed and related), look at all of the 10+ year-old Fantoms that are still in use all over the States.
Obviously, when any appliance is abused, it is not going to last as long, and even a well-engineered cleaner like the Dyson is no exception.
Going back under the rock now and watching-
MH Here's the exact statement from the CR web site concerning reliability methodology: "Brand Reliability Kirby and Dyson have been among the more reliable brands of upright vacuums, Electrolux, Hoover and Simplicity among the less reliable. Rainbow and Dyson have been among the more reliable brands of full-size canister vacuums. That's what we found when we asked 156,000 readers who bought a vacuum between 2004 and 2008 about their experiences. The graph shows the percentage of brands that needed a repair or had a serious problem. (Belt replacement isn't included because it's usually an inexpensive fix.) Differences of less than 4 points aren't meaningful, and we've adjusted the data to eliminate differences linked solely to age and use of the vacuum. Models within a brand may vary, and design or manufacture changes may affect future reliability. Still, choosing a brand with a good repair history can improve your odds of getting a reliable model." Please note that the reliability survey is in regards to recently purchased vacuums - 5 years old or less.
This message was modified Nov 5, 2009 by Severus
The smart tyrant writes his own story to ensure that it is favorable. The lazy will repeat lines from the book without fact checking.
|
|
|
