Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

I received this "teaser email today: http://links.mkt2388.com/ctt?kn=1&m=2735925&r=MTgwOTM1MTgzMTcS1&b=0&j=NzgxMTAyODMS1&mt=1&rt=0
Anyone know what's up with this??

-=Art=-

It’s their Airblade-like bladeless fan.

Direct link to the viral video here:-
http://www.dyson.com/teaser/

Looks possible that it could be said 'bladeless fan'... but even I'm uncertain now!

I received too.  As a dyson customer [I presume].

Carmine D.

http://www.dyson.com/teaser/default.asp?utm_source=teaserN149_US&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=n149

Some good news is that rather than dragging this out for days / weeks, by this time tomorrow we should have confirmation on what the new product is:-
http://media.dyson.com/email/journalist/uk/email.html

MooseUK or Anyone,
Can you go to the launch?  It's RARE that a backyard to billionaire inventor puts-on new and unusual product launches and even more rare to witness this (regardless of the product/s success).

Selfishly, I ask…  Shooting some video and then YouTube[ing] them would be great!

DIB

The invite…

Why does this read like something out of the script of "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory"?

Venson

Venson wrote:
It doesn't.  It reads like a page out of Apple Inc's. product launch script.

UK's Which Magazine is covering this launch live.  Below is copied from Which Magazine "Event Reminder"...
Your Event Reminder

This is the email reminder you requested for the following event:

Live Blog: Dyson launch - find out what's made the cut
Date: Tuesday October 13, 2009
Start Time: 9:45AM WET

When you are ready to watch the event you can click here.
Alternatively, you can copy and paste the following link into your browser:

http://www.coveritlive.com/index.php?option=com_altcaster&task=siteviewaltcast&altcast_code=9d49f74b7b

Thank you.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Sounds like you are comparing apples [no pun intended to Apple] to oranges.  What do fans have to do with vacuums? 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
You should complain to the owners of the site.

DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote:
Nah, I don't have an invite myself... although I did have one for the DC15 'the ball' launch, sent by someone at Dyson who worked on the launch at the time. Dyson staff are said to regularly follow this discussion forum. My very words at the time was it's like having a 'golden ticket' to the chocolate factory! It was a great event. Dyson is that rare beast... a British technology success story, but with (crucially) the positive attributes of American PR / Marketing. The invite link above was posted on the 'Dyson Team' Twitter page today.

I always follow the Apple 'live' announcements with a similar level of intrigue. If it is, as rumoured, something as straight-forward as a new type of 'fan' then it's quite something to get live web casts from the leading consumer magazine, Which?

M00seUK wrote:
Give them a call, get invited (invite yourself) and go!  Tell them your pro-Sir James and UK's biggest contributor here (the largest Google-indexed vacuum cleaner site in the world) – that means something!  Heck they let the foul talking and irreverent (but becoming more reverent) gizmodo.com guys behind the scenes, etc.

Give them a call and Go!


DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote:
Ha, I'm happy to stay where I am on this one! It'll be tough to beat the 'reveal' of James D. pushing a DC15 from the back of the room, up a circular ramp on to the stage and proceed to demo how it works.
I nominate yourself, even though I doubtlessly carry any weight on the issue!

M00seUK wrote:
Well I tried .  You know I'd be there if I could. 

DysonInventsBig wrote:

If Mike W. is true to his word here he'll let a little playtime for diversions as long as it doesn't go overboard.  It doesn't make me no never mind.  Whatever floats your dyson boat.  Fans, pencil sharpeners, washers, lights, hand driers, ball barrows.  All this fluff takes time money and effort away from the core vacuum business.  In good times, a company can get by with these diverse distractions.  In bad times, there is no 'play' money for the non-core products and businesses.  Do you see your brand advertising here lately?

Carmine D.

Dyson Air Multiplier

I'll try be first to say it... $300! For 'a fan'

I thought that the price might have to be defended to a certain degree, compared to fans that are as cheap as anything, but that's quite a jump.

I like it, though. If I had the need and the spare cash I'd likely get one. The initial price can only come down in time, but to how far is anyone's guess. And... I s'pose like a good screen for your PC, if it's something you need most days, you could see it as a fair investment. With no outward moving parts and the digital motor, it would likely last longer than a typical desktop fan. It is pretty unique in what it does and that aways commands a premium... but good luck to them, getting that message in to the press tomorrow.

What's quite interesting is that it will be initially be sold by up market high street retailers, where it will perhaps look quite cheap compared to bespoke artwork... kinda an add-on purchase. It is also said to be being made (assembled) in the UK... presumably plenty of scope for added value at this price. So a good PR 'win' for Dyson against the mostly unfair criticism of moving the vac production overseas ...it's not a huge commitment, but on principle it's one in the eye for those who thought moving a small amount of unskilled assembly overseas was the be all and end all.

You guys are kidding '''''  right, who's the target market for the combination spotlight bladeless fan, The sultan of bunei.This is a joke right.

STOP, JUST STOP, This is really pushing it, do you guys manufacture your own CRACK or something


MOLE

A new confection! As I said before, this is straight out of "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory". All we need now are Oompaloompas.

Okay, so you put a small fan in a can and force its output through a narrowed exhaust vent. (Remember leaf blowers?) Very modern, very cute and very worth $39.95.

If they'd snatched a condenser out of one of those tabletop ice cream makers or wine coolers for cooling and squeezed it in I'd probably spring for throwing an extra 75 bucks into the deal. Who wouldn't want a tabletop air conditioner? Whatever . . .

I can go to bed now, even my dullest dreams are loads better than this. And with that I say, goodnight and God bless you Lord Jimmy. Go talk to Ron Popeil, you might learn something.

Venson

I for one applaud Dyson for producing these things in the UK.   The trick is how do you apply this design to windmills.  The bladeless windmill would be a great idea to avoid the chopping up of birds.  Who knows, there might be a market for such things for parents of small children. 

If Dyson wants to make this a success, he's got to take his inventions on Oprah.  In fact, given the O shape of this fan, it could be the official Oprah fan. 

DysonInventsBig wrote:
CarmineD wrote:
Just do what I do...  When I see your running at the mouth of nonsensical non-vacuum related (there’s plenty of it)....  I just tune you out.  Problem solved.


DIB

M00seUK wrote:

May I assist.  For a desk top fan!!!! 

Okay DIB, tune that out.  And tune out Severus, MOLE and Venson.  $300 for a bladeless desktop fan.  In the worse recession of modern history with no end in sight.  Just the invention that world needs.

BTW, I understand the role players in the clip are dyson employees who were stringed along on the launch too.  Hence the reactions.

Carmine D.

 

Severus wrote:

It is as overpriced as Oprah is overpaid.

HARDSELL wrote:

HS:

Pay toilet shuffle again.  All dyson products are overpriced.  Oprah gets what the market bears.  She's an entertainer.  Apple products get what the market bears.  It's the electronics gadgetry that define society's wiredness.  James fixes the prices on dyson vacuum and non-vacuum products.  No relevance to reality.  As turtle1 pointed out.  Dyson overprices to eliminate competition.  What he [James] doesn't get is that overpricing products eliminates sales.  Especially in hard economic times and non-essential wares [read vacuums and fans].

If, as you say, no vacuum is worth $600 when referring to dyson's products, then by logical deduction certainly no dyson desk fan is worth $300.  Not even in the fantasy land that inventor dyson lives.

Carmine D.

I'm curious if any of the posters here can answer whether dyson's newfangled fan made the Nordstrom's Christmas wish list of luxury gift giving.  A status symbol for the rich.  Anyone know?

Carmine D.

Well I think its a great idea but it is a natural extension to what his Air blade hand dryer does, a fantastic machine if I do say so myself!

They are, at least, acknowledging that this will be far from a mass selling item in the UK. That's why James Dyson is in New York for the launch, which also coincides (I believe) with that start of summer in Australia.

Thinking back to a friend's sister who lives in LA, I'm sure she'd buy one of these with little consideration... well if her husband still has a job, that is. Certainly, many people will put up with a $20 fan that supplies 'choppy' air if means they have money to eat that week... yay, it would certainly been a better seller in the less responsible times.

A few years back I lived in an apartment, in London, which got incredibly hot in summer. I needed a fan, but I didn't want to spend too much on one, since it would likely only be required for a matter of weeks. I went to the supermarket and was pleased to be able to buy a free-standing pedestal fan for something like £15 GBP. The build quality and styling wasn't amazing, but hey, it did the job. One issue was that it was fairly noisy, so I needed to use ear plugs to get some sleep. Something that the Dyson goes some way toward resolving. But, again, if I can save £175 GBP by using ear plugs for a few weeks, I'm happy. Yep, it's certainly a much more viable product in a country which has warm weather most of the year.

The other sales angle is large workplaces, using fans in preference to air conditioning and the cost / environmental savings that can bring. James Dyson is said to be big fa... um, supporter of open windows and fresh air in the workplace... but hey, Dyson's building manager wouldn't have the same challenge of making 500 x £200 desk fans fit a budget. Perhaps they think there should be government environmental subsidy for this type of product? They've certainly developed an 'interesting' product, even if the commercial success is still to be determined.

Dyson air multiplier video >
http://media.dyson.com/assets/press/videos/airMultiplierTech.wmv

vacmanuk wrote:

Guys:

The question with any product that is made for USA consumer consumption is:  Will it sell in Peoria?  This one won't sell in fantasy land in Peoria.  Not for $300.  It's like the Air Blade.  At $1400, its 2X and more than the price of the best hand drier on the market today.  After failing miserably with the commercial market, dyson tried the home consumprtion market.  No luck there either.  In fact worse results than the commercial market.  This Air Multiplier is no different than the Air Blade.  No different than the contra rotating washer.  The ball barrow.  And the ball dysons.  You can't invent for the sake of invention and then force consumers to like it and buy it.  Doesn't work that way in Peoria.

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:
Which Magazine has their Live launch archived (includes a QT Multiplier promo video).
http://www.which.co.uk/news/2009/10/dyson-air-multiplier-fan-launch-186125.jsp

HI DIB:

I excerpted this from your link above:

Not all Dyson products have proven as big a success with consumers – the Contrarotator washing machine being a case in point – but there's no denying that when Dyson takes on a product market you're sure to see something innovative, and the Air Multiplier is no exception. 

Sounds like my post above.  Will it sell in Peoria????

Carmine D.

This appears to be a variant of Jet Venturi fans that have been around for some time.
Difference is the venturi outlet is along the rim of a circle, rather than a tube within the center of a cylinder.

Some articles briefly mention a turbine inside the base provides the air for the venturi.  A turbine is a specialized type of fan, so this is not really a "fanless" device.

What's not been mentioned is if the base turbine has an air filter. 
If not, dust and other junk will build up inside the fan base and ring, requiring a blow out every so often with an air hose or "cans o' air" from your local store.
I'm assuming for $300 Dyson will include a filter, but assumptions can be wrong.

CarmineD wrote:

Guys:

The question with any product that is made for USA consumer consumption is:  Will it sell in Peoria?  This one won't sell in fantasy land in Peoria.  Not for $300.  It's like the Air Blade.  At $1400, its 2X and more than the price of the best hand drier on the market today.  After failing miserably with the commercial market, dyson tried the home consumprtion market.  No luck there either.  In fact worse results than the commercial market.  This Air Multiplier is no different than the Air Blade.  No different than the contra rotating washer.  The ball barrow.  And the ball dysons.  You can't invent for the sake of invention and then force consumers to like it and buy it.  Doesn't work that way in Peoria.

Carmine D.

---

Hi Carmine, your experience differs to my own on the AirBlades - I've been surprised at the variety of places that have them installed; they're more popular than I thought they'd be. At the margins involved and the publicity it gives the Dyson brand, it's proved a success in many ways.

Vacomatic,

 Awhile back I looked up about this bladeless fan and found as you the same thing. What I also found out is there is a difference in the American language and British. We say one thing  and to the British it means another  tho we speak and write English. What I saw in the fan diagram was a blade system tho in UK it is called  bladeless.The system sound great  tho. Will wait to see what it looks like in real life.

                                                                                                   Procare

M00seUK wrote:
I recently read the same from a UK online magazine.  That is, they did not seem to think the Airblade would sell, and now they're all around (the UK).

DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote:
DysonInventsBig wrote:
More Dyson air multiplier videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6A3IM06xgr0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIC_dn40PB4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-Es2ALpZ_s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylgWrLbER3A

I see a dryer coming soon guys.... And maybe even a relaunched washing machine...

M00seUK wrote:

Guys:

How do you know these were bought and sold?  Or gifted in the hopes to spark sales?  These Air Blades don't stay in new condition in the boxes forever.  They have a limited shelf.  Parts deteriorate if stagnated after 3-4 years.  They would have to be re-opened and re-inspected to ensure product worthiness.  These driers don't stay new in the boxes forever. 

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote: DysonInventsBig wrote: DysonInventsBig wrote:
Sir James Dyson enjoying free press (airtime) on CNBC:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232/?video=1293828771&play=1

CarmineD wrote:

Guys:

How do you know these were bought and sold?  Or gifted in the hopes to spark sales?  These Air Blades don't stay in new condition in the boxes forever.  They have a limited shelf.  Parts deteriorate if stagnated after 3-4 years.  They would have to be re-opened and re-inspected to ensure product worthiness.  These driers don't stay new in the boxes forever. 

Carmine D.

---

Hi Carmine, while there's really no concrete way of me knowing the answer... one shopping mall near to where I worked had one installed soon after launch, which I presume was a sample. 18 months later, they appeared to have brought approx. 20 units for the other washrooms around the place. They're quite a good product for pre-sales samples, as they likely aren't an expensive product in terms of cost price as it's all the unique design patents and the added value the a buyer might pay for.

Do you think they really would have such a short box life? Given that they're supposed to built to a high grade of durability? 'Can't personally see it myself...

DysonInventsBig wrote:
My, that's quite a 'free' prime time advert he had there, wasn't it? Roll over while I tickle your belly! You should see the grilling spokespeople like him get on BBC News!
Interesting that he said that while vac sales have gone down in the recession, Dyson's market share has gone up.

M00seUK wrote:
Carmine is confused  ( as Usual ).  He thought they used Oreck belts which do deteriorate on the shelf.

Lordy, what does it matter about shelf life? The Airblade is a new type of hand dryer installed in many public toilets and I find it far more hygienic than the old types.

Well guys instead of trying to convince me how good it is for $1400 why not buy one for your personal use and tell us how you like it?  As they say, put your money where your .............  [you know the rest].   If I were a brit and felt like you all, I would buy at least one to test it out.

Carmine D.

PS:  How many $300 dyson fans are you guys buying?  None.  That's what I thought.  Talk is cheap.  Plunk your money down and then tell me how great it is.  Or wait until Dec 1, and when you get your free dyson products to blog about how great they are, you have to tell us so. 

HARDSELL wrote:

Wrong HS.  I posted about this already.  You're not reading and comprehending.  According to RICCAR/SIMPLICITY personnel, the shelf life of these lightweight vacuums require that they replace the belts upon sale.  Not so with the ORECK's.  They sell quickly and belts are fine at time of sale.  Try and keep up.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote: You are the one who made the first comment about Oreck belts being bad out of the box.  Search back.

CarmineD wrote:
And you own how many wall mount dryers?

HARDSELL wrote:

I did and said they are fresh out of the box because sales are quick and shelf-life is short.  One of the few lightweights for which this is true.  Prove me wrong HS, if you can. 

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

The same number as you.  None are the Air Blade.  My reasons are well documented here already.  At $1400 the dyson Air Blade is too expensive.  The best rated hand drier on the market which beats dyson's Air Blade in every spec/category is half as much in cost at $700.  Why pay twice as much for less performance?   

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

You made the statement.  The burden is on you to prove that you are correct.

Just for thought.  If they go stale on the shelf how long does it take one to go stale in use.

M00seUK wrote:

Figures lie and liars figure.  Sounds like dyson went from his old reliable "largest dollar share of vacuums sold" to a new measure.  Give me the cold hard numbers not the dyson speak. 

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

You forget again I bought 4 new ORECKS and the belts were fine on all of them.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
One of the US networks should have your good self on as a guest interviewer for Dyson one day. Heck, I'd pay good money on Pay Per View for that :-p

Still, back we go to your tried and tested formula of walking around the stores in Nevada...

CarmineD wrote:

You do not represent the world.  Regardless of what you think.

4 is nothing in comparison to total units manufactured.  Remember it was you who suggested that another poster check the belt for in box deterioration.

CarmineD wrote:

You seem to forget that my DC07 was problem free for years.

HARDSELL wrote:

3 years.  Pretty good.  Missed out on the extra year ESP you paid for.

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

Never said I did.  I stand for me, myself and I and the 3 others who were gifted the ORECKs.  That's all that matters.  BTW, each ORECK comes with a spare belt in the undercarriage of the head.  Those were good too. 

Carmine D.

M00seUK wrote:

I welcome the opportunity.  Just one of my many ways.  42 years in the vacuum sales and service business and 15 plus years as an industry consultant.  I've made many professional and personal contacts over the years.  I use them all as resources.  I still keep up a frequent dialogue with the indies here in Las Vegas, and others around the country.  Good well rounded sphere of influence on all matters related to vacuums.  As I say, I get by with a little help from my friends. 

But its not about me here, least it shouldn't be.  It should be about the products.  Much more authentic reviwer opinions when people actually BUY and USE the products that they opine on.  Rather than talk about them ad infinitum and ad nauseum when they never took any money out of their pockets to buy. 

Carmine D.

Guys:

In contemplating a sit down with Sir James I would as a matter of curiosity pose this question and ask the distinguished British inventor to comment on it:

   In an interim report about changing test procedures of iec 60312 it says:  " Multi cyclones are excellent for filtering dust type solids but can have some problems with fibrous materials due to a tendency to agglomerate as they enter the cyclone."  The report goes on to say that a barrier or filter was needed prior to entering the cyclone.  What are your thoughts and comments on this Mr. Dyson. 

Or anyone else who likes dyson speak.

Carmine D.

That Oreck belt in the spare undercarriage is all very well. However to change the roller brush or clean it involves taking off quite a few too many screws on the sole plate. In the UK Oreck seem to think owners should be replacing their brush rolls every year.

CarmineD wrote:
Carmine,
The more you talk the more you expose your true-cyclonic ineptness.  The backyard inventor and his team invented this filter long ago – the perforated shroud.  Sir James and his team discover and develop inventions and then the testing bodies play catch-up.

Do you think quoting the IEC (glowing) report helps or hurts your indie buddies who’s livelihood depends on selling bagged vacuums and the [often exclusive to the indie] replacement bags?

DIB

DIB/Mr. dyson [with a small d]:

All cyclonic vacuums have shrouds including dyson.  Small fibrous materials penetrate the shoud openings and "agglomerate"  in the cyclones impeding suction and filtration.  Cyclones can't filter out.  Need a barrier aka filter. 

Carmine D.

vacmanuk wrote:

6 small screws on the soleplate.  Takes less than a minute to remove them and get to the brush roll.  Takes less than a minute to replace the belt which requires removal of only one screw. 

I have owned and used my ORECK for over 2 years.  The brush is still like brand new.  Haven't had to clean it yet either.   I have a yellow English lab which sheds year round.  No dog hair in and around the brush roll compartment.  I attribute this to fact that the suction is 2 inches from the carpet so it pulls all the dirt, pet hair and debris picked up off the rugs/floors into the vacuum, out of the brush roll compartment, and into the bag.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
 Yes, we know.   This problem is non-existent with the Dyson’s.

Perhaps someday you ought to obtain a non-DC07 Dyson and study how the by-design separation works.  It would make our talks more fun.

DIB

BTW, my grand daughters have toys that require more time and as many screws to remove/replace the batteries.  The toys' batteries don't last as long as the ORECK belts and I use thw ORECK daily.

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

The problem with fibrous clogging is existent with all multi-cyclones including dyson.  I bought and used a dyson DC07 pink.  Before that, used a DC07 All Floors.  Experienced pet hair clogging the dyson shroud openings.  Serviced a few dysons too from homes with pets.  Noticed the same.  Talked to indies who repair dysons and they advised that they encounterered the same findings and agree with the interim report.

Of course, you can tune all this out.  But it doesn't change the reality.  Like an ostrich burying its head in the sand. 

Carmine D.

The thing is though and even if I think Miele and Sebo are the best at pick up, at the end of the day there really is no comparison with dyson. Take a bit of carpet and put in a new fresh bag in your Oreck and go over it. See what the machine picks up. Take a Dyson and go over the carpet after it. You'll still find the Dyson picks up more.

vacmanuk wrote:
Oh no, what have you started now... 

Guys:

It's the oldest trick of the trade in the vacuum selling play book.  The vacuum that goes last always takes more dirt out.  Why?  Dealt with this before here.  You're just not paying attention.  A rug can holds its weight in dirt and still look clean.  You can never get all the dirt out.  Keep going over and over the same area, with the same vacuum or different, and more dirt comes out every time.   It's how many a vacuum was sold back in the day. 

Good to go over these old achived tricks of trade/techniques.  Just when you think everyone has heard about them, somebody proves us wrong.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

A trick that Oreck still uses.  BTW, your carpet must be very very heavy.

Strange, when the Kirby was demoed at my home the salesman had to run it for a few minutes to get dirt on the pad that they use. 

ORECK had enough money to buy up halo after it failed.  That was not trickery.  That was cash.  Wonder who'll be next?

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

The trickery is in the marketing.  Build a vac for $50 or less and sell for $800.  It will however perform almost as good as a $50 vacuum.

BTW, You tried to divert my comment because you know I spoke the truth.

Our local Oreck store went out of business. It was located in the Best Buy strip mall, looks like BB killed them....

DysonInventsBig wrote: DysonInventsBig wrote: DysonInventsBig wrote: DysonInventsBig wrote:
NY News coverage - Dyson air multiplier launch event:
http://ny1.com/9-staten-island-news-content/ny1_living/107332/new-dyson-fan-blows-away-the-need-for-blades

I can think of a brand that produces $500 plus vacuums that don't perform as well a $50 HOOVER TEMPO!   

Carmine D.

Ace:

That might be the first ORECK store ever to shutter.  Unless, it moves to another location?  Probably not the last.

BEST BUY stores aren't off the hook either.  Tho, I have serious doubt that the BB store did the ORECK store in.  I suspect since many strip mall have lost their anchor stores and with them customer traffic, then the rent/lease costs may no longer be warranted.   Remember the advice I gave to turtle1 and others here awhile back.  Rather than spending the $300,000 for an ORECK franchise, find a goodd location for a business/store and use the money to buy it.

Carmine D.

Oh what a load of old shi*, Carmine! Do it on a hard floor and the Dyson will STILL pick up dirt left over by ANY bagged upright.

You use any brand vacuum you want on a hard floor.  When you are done, I'll go back over with a broom and dust pan and pick up everything you left behind.   

That's the oldest trick in the fuller brush sales play book.  Same principle applies.  The last to go is always the winner.

Carmine D.

vacmanuk wrote:
In validated tests conducted by Consumer Reports, most Dysons weren't too impressive at removing dirt from carpets.  While many Hoovers regularly get excellent scores for carpet cleaning (CR scores are:  Excellent, Very Good, good, fair, poor), Dysons with few exceptions only get "good" scores.  One notable exception is the new hard to push Dyson with air muscle technology.  It actually scored "very good" (still below the standard set by the Hoover bagged Windtunnel and $60 Tempo).  Given the same opportunity to remove dirt from the test rugs, the bagged Hoovers did a better job than the Dysons. 

If you did your test both ways, I believe the Hoover would pick up a lot more dirt that the Dyson missed than vice versa. 

That's not to say that your carpeting will be filthy if you have a Dyson.   If you use your Dyson regularly and thoroughly, you can have clean carpeting.  

SEVERUS:

A very savvy poster here once wrote that the HOOVER uprights are the gold standard of carpet cleaning and grooming.  Consumer Reports gets it right on this one.

Carmine D.

vacmanuk wrote: Severus wrote:
VacuumUK,

It seems Venson and Carmine don’t care much for your post.  I do.  FYI - Venson's buddies here are dealer[s] who's livelyhoods depends on selling bagged vacuums and the (often times) exclsive replacement bags (very expensive vacs and bags I might add).

CR on vacuums is worthless (nearly):    If you've read our CR debates here or looked critically how CR tests the lowly vacuum cleaner, bold faced refusal to discuss the benefits to Dyson-cyclonic’s, and their refusal to test real-world tests...  you'll see CR is dirty and their tests and the goofs who run the testing as laughable.  Heck, CR does not pay any federal or state taxes and it's still a financial looser.  They only stay in business because of the millions "donated" every year by individuals who are not affiliated with any corporation.


DIB

Laughable?
L  - photo:  CR showing their readers how uprights are difficult, limited, clumsy and somewhat dangerous to use at cleaning stairs.
R - photo:  Anyone with a 3rd grade or higher education showing how uprights can reach farther than canisters, are fast, simple and safer to use at cleaning stairs (onboard hose/wand made popular courtesy James Dyson).
 

DIB:

I find his posts hilarious.  I didn't realize that in this age and time some of the oldest and most legendary vacuum industry myths are still being circulated and believed.  What's even more hilarious is that if I remember correctly he said he is/was a paid reviewer for vacuum products and worked for Which?  Like they say:  What have you been doing all your life??

So, DIB should we now add Consumer Reports to the anti-dyson conspiracy along with all the indies in the USA? 

Carmine D.

Carmine,

  Earlier you stated that the last cleaner gets more dirt. Ther have been a few instances that I let the owner have the last vacuuming and had a clean bag or bin and they hardly pulled anything. A few times customers said they vacuumed before I came had new bag or bin and wasn't getting anything. One was a  two month old Dyson DC- 14  and one was a new Filter Queen and I really dug the dirt out and shocked the customers. Tri Star told a customer that they could clean the whole house and no one would pull anything behind them. When I went in to demo , they were still there and I beat him out. He tried everything in the book to show me and my trainee up but failed. He had a new man with him. Tried to sell her a new scratched unit and failed. Delivered a new machine next day. I told her and showed her what it would do and didn't cut the other man down. Hired the Tri Star trainee and trained him . Good honest salesman today. I tell people about the so called trick of the trade because I will always pull far more dirt after them . When I go to another area  i ask them to go behind me They hardly pull anything.

             Procare

Hello Procare:

Your post about the Lux and letting dyson go last and getting hardly anything out coincides with Severus' post.  A HOOVER up would pull more out going last than a dyson would pull out going last.  Of course, as Severus says if you stay at it long enough with a dyson EVENTUALLY a DC14 would get some more out.  Perhaps 14/15 passes.  Maybe 27/28 passes back and forth.  Maybe that's how dyson picks model numbers.  But dyson's especially the models discontinued now are equipped with wimpy brush rolls [I mean bars].  James must have had a technological innovatively lazy hour when it came to the old style dyson brush bars.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

As you know I had a DC07 and a Hoover Fusion at thr same time.  The Dyson beat it every time.  The dirt was weighed on extremely accurate pharmacy scales.

The Orecks are embarrased to put a number on all but the XL21.  It has to be run 21 times a week to get a bare minimum of dirt out of carpets.  The others have to be used so many times they chose to elkiminate the number.  XL = Xtremely Long time to vacuum.

CarmineD wrote:
A not so savy poster also once told Hoover that Dyson would never sell.  Look what it cost him.

Acerone wrote:
I'm pretty sure it was Oreck that killed the Oreck Store. Since the new INVESTORS in Oreck the have been selling product cheaply in BOX STORES, on QVC and the Oreck Company INTERNET WEB SITE does nothing for the franchisee. Years ago maybe the "Bag Sales" were enough to carry a small shop but with rents and lower margins it's no longer possible. Taking away vacuum sales and making dealers honor warranties for virtually nothing will be the undoing of Oreck. I wouldn't be surprised if the company tried to buy the stores in larger markets once they have forced their indies out.

Lucky1 wrote:

I think that you are right on Lucky.  Also,  they are beginning to show signs of "desperate for business".

They only have stores in major metropolitan areas.  WM, Kmart, BB, HH Greg and many other big box stores are so much more convenient.  Who is going to buy a vac and have to drive 50, 100 or more miles to take it back to the franchised store for service which is pretty regular.

Great parody!
---

http://gizmodo.com/5382453/

Hello Lucky1

I would never ever pay ORECK $300,000 for a franchise.  I'd take the money and buy a building.  Why be at the mercy of any brand and pay them for it.  It doesn't make sense.  If I want to be my own boss [and I that's largely the reason I went in the business], why would I ever buy a brand's franchise?  I never signed a business contract with any vacuum brand maker in 42 years.  I was an authorized sales and service dealer for 4 major vacuum brands.  We did business based on an handshake, or we didn't do business.  My store, my rules.  If they didn't agree, I thanked them, and  I showed them the door.

Carmine D.

Not realy a parody as much as honesty.  Why buy a $300 10 inch fan, and/or a $330 12 inch fan when a $10 one will do just fine.  dyson has made some real foibles on the invention front.  But this has to be right up there with the dc11.  I can't imagine a single solitary fan sold at this price.  Not now.  Not ever.  Dyson will be gifting them with the purchase of vacuums after they give away all the handhelds.

Carmine D.

Cant think of a solitary fan that would be more expensive than Dyson? What about ceiling fans? In the UK the prices start at £40 and go all the way to £400. Id be interested to see what kind of power the Dyson fan has in terms of air speed/thrust, and secondly even though they don't show it, what level of dust the Dyson incurs when it is used? With bladeless technology that the eye can't see, standard fans often get dusty and end up churning the dust off the impellers back into the room. Surely those with health allergies would appreciate something like the Dyson fan, but again I'm speculating as I'm not too sure what would happen if dust builds up / or if Dyson intends to fit a filter.

I vaguely remember an article from possibly Business week in which someone tested a Dyson DC07, a Eureka Whirlwind dual cyclonic, and a couple of other vacuums.  The author commented that when he followed the Eureka with the Dyson, that there was no noticeable dirt picked up by the Dyson.  However, when he followed the Dyson by the Eureka, the Eureka continued to pick up a lot of dirt.  I suspect it had to do with the brush roll on the Dyson.  The Dyson certainly has comparable suction and arguably a better dirt containment system; however, it had a lousy brush roll.   Dyson has a tendency to over engineer some components of his vacuums rather than using industry tried and true designs, and sometimes gets unintended consequences. 

I'm sure there will be useful applications of this fan.  For example, they may be able to incorporate these fans into the seats on bidets.  Perhaps they will create a direct air vacuum which doesn't have the problem of the debris going through the fan?   Perhaps Kirby's and Orecks will have these fans to prevent fan damage some day?  I'm still hoping for the bladeless windmill design...

procare wrote:

vacmanuk wrote:
Hi vacmanuk,

Ceiling fans here price more according to style. My local Home Depot carries them at varying prices as low $70 and over the $200 mark. This summer I searched for a window-mounted 20" or 22" whole house fan and the one brand and model I liked priced lowest at $188. Depending on where you looked, the price for the same thing rose as high as $400. I'll be curious to learn how they price off-season as it would seem that the first line of business is to gouge -- pardon me, I meant to say sell at what the market will bear.

Venson

CarmineD wrote:

When I first saw and commented on the wimpy dyson brush roll in a DC07 in April 2002, the pro-dyson campers raved about the high 270 air watts.  They argued the unbeaten suction power would make up the difference.  Yeah, right.  They didn't know and understand their vacuum operations.  After 9 years in the US vacuum market and for as many years as Consumer Reports telling us so, most all here, even the hard core card carrying dysoners, agree that dyson's wimpy brush bar and clutch in DC07 and 14's are a farce on US rugs and carpets.  The documented evidence is overwhelming.  SEVERUS posted some of it here as a follow up to the thread question: What has dyson invented now? Dyson finally discontinued both clutch models albeit after too many years of delay.  The refurbs will probably never go away.

Dyson's legacy to the bagless/vacuum industry will most notably be it allowed its competition to outdo it on every turn.  Air watts.  Cyclones.  Shrouds.  Dirt bin capacities.  Filters.   Even today's $100-$200 cyclonic bagless vacuums have shroud filters/screens to keep the fibrous materials from 'agglomerating'  in and clogging the cyclones.  Dyson still hasn't figured it out yet either?  Is it denial?  Maybe its farting around with $300 10 inch fans? Or does it takes awhile for its 500 engineers to reach a consensus?  Just like it did with the early dyson brush rolls and clutches.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
You’ve got nothing.  Playing the hilarious card or the name calling card is your pattern when you’ve got nothin.  With regards to vacuum real-world benefits, testing, costs and functions…  CR is showing it’s lack of intelligence and/or willingness to screw over the public…  either way you love it.  Reminiscent of your vacuum dealing days.

I do enjoy exposing the cons, their tricks and their *qumulative low level intelligence.


DIB


L  - photo:  CR showing their readers how uprights are difficult, limited, clumsy and somewhat dangerous to use at cleaning stairs.
R - photo:  Anyone with a 3rd grade or higher education showing how uprights can reach farther than canisters, are fast, simple and safer to use at cleaning stairs (onboard hose/wand made popular courtesy James Dyson).
 

*forum software would not allow for the correct spelling.

DIB:

$300 for a 10 inch desk top fan!  Hilarious.  Can't wait to read the Consumer Reports reviews on it.  I can see the CR intro now:  Legendary bagless vacuum inventor Sir James Dyson is making quite a name for himself in the UK.  First, bagless vacuums for $400-$800 and now bladeless 10 inch fans for $300.   Jerry Lewis and Dick Van Dyke, please step aside.  There's a new absent minded inventor in town.  He's riding in on a $600 dyson ball vacuum noted for its needle thin defective motor wiring harness and toting a $270 dyson DC30 handheld vacuum that runs 6 minutes at 65 Air Watts of power and 10 minutes at 35 Air Watts.  [Warning:  Actual run times may fluctuate depending on the severity of the clean up jobs.  It's suggested that 2 and maybe even 3 be puchased in order to perform routine household clean up tasks.]  The dyson man is a truly a genius.  Maybe he can figure out how to save the UK budget from its huge deficits.  Perhaps with a new invention: Numberless math. 

Carmine D.

With the upright market pretty much history whats Jimmy gonna do now, The canister is a joke the airblade has been transformed into a overpriced hand vac,well even the combo high tech fan is  bound to be a LOSER, WTF are you guys thinking.

Is Dyson looking for any bailout money?

Is fantom still an option?

Maybe its time for James to step down and stop  himself.The dyson legacy well it worked for a little while, Even the best propaganda machine ever assembled in vacuum cleaner history cant save me now.

Take the money Sir Jimmy and run as far away as you can.While your empire is still worth something.

regards

MOLE

Wow, quite a lot of jealousy here I see!  Once again, if the design of the Air Multiplier was so obvious, why didn't any of y'all think of it first? 

What an awesome fan that is, and watching Jack's (Model2) video demonstrations only makes me want one even more.  I heard about the Air Multiplier around 6 months ago from none other than Tom Gasko.  He was under the impression that it would be a bladeless ceiling fan, and from what I hear there's a ceiling fan in the works, but it now makes sense that Sir James would bring it out as a table fan to gauge the public reaction.  Not to mention giving time to iron out the quirks involved with adapting and producing a light kit for it as well.  And (aside from a select few posts on here and other similar sites...) it seems the public reaction to the AM as a whole has been favorable.  Either way, the AM ceiling fan should be a solution to a HUGE problem that has plagued us for decades...vibrating, dusty, wobbly ceiling fans that produce mostly choppy air, or do not seem to move any air at all on lower speeds.  Offering an optional built-in heater would be a good idea as well, for homes that are either without central heat or overly drafty.  Along with the "jet-engine" appearance, I predict that 40 years from now it will be looked at in the same way we look at "mod" fixtures from the 1960's today.  Sleek, cool, and a perfect combination of design and functionality.  May even add to the value of homes that have them installed!

While we're on the subject of new Dyson innovations, Tom suggested that there are more in the works where this came from.  Among them will be a juice extractor that can juice an entire orange without halving it or adding any of the bitter zest to the juice.  That's been a big complaint of mine for a long time regarding juicing oranges with an extractor and why I've always preferred to use a simple reamer-type citrus juicer.  There will also be a toaster that is completely sealed from the escaping moisture from toasting bread, and a dishwasher that converts hydrogen peroxide into a cleaning agent by means of an ionic charge plate. 

On the vacuum front, the self-propelled MotorDrive is in the process of being test-marketed here in the States.  Not entirely sure what the model will be, perhaps either DC29 or DC32, but I should find out more in the near future.  It is similar in appearance to the DC28 (except no cam actuator to adjust the brushbar), with four motors.  Two DDMs for the suction and brushbar, respectively, and two servo-motors for each rear wheel.  The brushbar will be driven off a simple gearbox, which puts to rest the myth of switched-reluctance motors not being able to produce any torque.  Are they as powerful as traditional carbon-brush universal motors at the moment, no, but they can obviously produce enough torque to drive a gearbox.  In that situation, at least with the DDM, speed is at an advantage, producing enough power off reduction gearing without sacrificing brushbar speed (and subsequently cleaning performance).  The self-propulsion system is what is most unique, addressing the problem of steering difficulty that has plagued Kirby, Hoover, etc.  When the handle is turned either to the left or right, it will engage the respective servo-motor providing effortless power steering.  It is the most responsive and innovative drive system to date, utilizing electronics similar to a joystick to control the drive rather than complex linkage.  Due to the self-propulsion electronics in the handle, this will also be the first Dyson upright not to have the wand in the handle for above-floor cleaning. 

Between Dyson, Tacony, and Miele, it's nice to know someone well-rounded in the industry to provide this great information.

Take care everyone,
MH

P.S. Carmine, I hear where you're going, there will be an amalgam of AM01s to provide air circulation, and DC07s for you, Mole, and David Oreck to clean the place with...what can I say, guess they have good taste in vacuums and fans down there too

Hello MH:

It's nice to know the way of dyson future by way of Tom thru you.  I'll wait to see what comes, if and when it does.  There have been soo many promises made here about future dyson products that never materialize.  We could devote a thread to it. 

On the Air Multiplier press to date, it's been negative primarily for 4 reasons: 

• There most definitely are blades but  are hidden in the stand.
• Very noisey compared with conventional fans.
• Unrealistically high price based on the competition.
• No better for fanned air than a $10 bladed fan. 

These are opinions expressed by the expert sources that review such products and I noted concurred to by the opinions of posters.  Do an internet search and read the latest about the Air Multiplier.  I was kine and gentle by saying hilarious.  Others called dyson more colorful names.

Carmine D.

PS MH:

I should add another poignant comment by an expert about dyson marketing.  And I paraphrase:  Dyson's product approach has been to reinvent existing technology, add a high premium, and watch the cash registers ring. 

I add, with the assistance of others here,:  That may have worked with vacuums [at least up to 2009] which normally cost $200-$300.  But for $10 fans?  That's a huge leap of marketing faith and money from $10 to $330.  Some on the internet have said much less complimentary things than this.  I doubt seriously if jealousy has as much to do with these comments as much as plain old "how will it sell in Peoria" common sense and realism.

Carmine D.

Motorhead wrote:

I won't know first hand what it will be like down there but look forward to the card carrying dyson folks there to let me know.  

Carmine D.

I don't think you're seeing jealousy so much as the stupidity of the new Dyson representative of the forum.  Tom did at least know what he was talking about with respect to the technology.  He might have gotten into a Rainbow like sales pitch at times, but he at least brought something interesting to the conversation.  I do enjoy the updates from Tom, and wish him well in his new job as vacuum cleaner museum curator.  Unfortunately the new Dyson rep is an idiot bore.  Please provide more updates. 

So was the cam used to push the nozzle into the carpet considered a success, or will it be dropped from future models?



Motorhead wrote:

Of course the next benefit that Dyson could take on is a hair dryer. On the basis that most hair dryers have no filters on the back (granted some do) to clean the back fan of dust, the air blade could be used for that, as well as heat producing fans...

vacmanuk wrote:

Really.  No filters in "most" hand held hair driers.  On what do you base your conclusion?   

Carmine D.

vacmanuk wrote:
The next new thing will be the bigger,stronger, supersized ball barrow, there are plenty hanging around not being used,lets see the smart engineers can change the color, maybe use a carbon fibre tub mount a multiplex c d player on the handle. attach the new cordless fan i mean airmultiplier, for keeping the user from overheating, And use the cordless hand vac for the smaller particles that the shovel misses,although you have to get them all in under 6 minuets.

STOP SIR JIMMY JUST STOP., Is goldman handleing the sale to tti...............

regards

MOLE

CarmineD wrote:
A removable mesh 'pre-motor' filter is standard on most hair driers these days. At least the hair drier in our house has such a feature.

vacmanuk wrote:
Not a practical move since hair dryers need all the air they can get especially due to the fact that at least in the U.S. the their big selling point is high-wattage. Also they are devices that people want to use and forget till they are needed again and thus should be kept simple. If you're not accustomed to a maintenance regimen for your comb or brush you're not going to give a moment's thought to a hair dryer. Hair dryers also easily qualify as disposable appliances.

Most that I've seen have metal mesh screens or grills to keep hair and coarse material from being drawn into the area where the fan and heating element are. If patterns are the same as with vacuum owners, users will probably not bother much with the upkeep of a hair dryer with filters for even finer particles. Fine particle filters left uncleaned will quickly lead to decreased air flow thus causing the hair dryer to overheat, catch fire and/or cause the user injury possibly leading to lawsuits. It is not worth a manufacturer's time to "over invent".

Venson

vacmanuk wrote:
Vacmanuk’s idea is genius (if it can be done).  Sir James could be the manufacturer/distributor or he could license it (in a variety of ways).  It’s genius!

DIB

Motorhead wrote:
Thank you Motorhead, the inside scoop is the good stuff!!!  There's some very interesting stuff there for sure.  Share more/elaborate more when you can.

DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote:
I'd imagine that, like with hand driers, that the heating element will most often fail before the fan motor. The same is likely true with a hair drier and heat is important in the task of drying hair. Can you make a case for the health risks of carbon deposits from traditional motors in hair driers? If so, a brush-less motor could be a consideration for people who use hair driers each day, i.e. hair stylists.

M00seUK wrote:

Probable but highly impractical for a dyson product venue.  Why?  Dyson's MO is to reinvent existing technology and add a huge premium: i.e.: ball barrows; contrarotating washers; hand driers; hand held vacuums; fans.  You and others opine that hand held hair driers are a new frontier ripe for the dyson picking.  I disagree.  Why?  My question is: If and when it ever comes to be, at what price will it be?  As with all the other dyson products mentioned, they are so overpriced as to make them obsolete for sale to the general public [even professional hair stylists which is a niche market]:  Air Blade, Air Multiplier, Contrarotating washer, etc.  As Venson and others point out, disposable household products marked up to the sky's the limit price are very consumer unfriendly.  Works maybe for household vacuums, which retail for $200-$300.  Not fans and hand and hair driers.

But that never stops Sir James.  If a $80 hand held gets a dyson price of $270, and an Air Blade hand drier gets a dyson price of $1400, and a 10 inch $10 fan gets a dyson price of $330, what on God's green earth would a hand held hair drier list for?  $400-$500.  Perhaps, especially due to the higher wattage of these products.  Of course, I might be mistaken.  It may be even more.  One thing is sure based on dyson's past product pricing, it won't be less than $400.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
If you take a closer look at what I've written I'm actually sceptical if a hair drier would benefit from brush-less motor. I'm of the conclusion that if the heating element isn't improved on, then it appears a little pointless to have motor which offer the benefit of a greater MTBF. Maybe they could, like with the Dyson handheld, make the casing a bit smaller and if at all possible, reduce the noise... maybe it could in theory work in professional haircare... it sounds unlikely, although I would have thought the same at the prospect of a £200 Dyson fan at one point...

Carmine, as M00seUK points out, there are certain hair dryers on the market that have pre-filter doors on the back so that owners can clean off the blades. My mother has one dating from 2001, a Revlon Jetstream 2000.

However I'm not referring to high hot air being directed or the power behind it, but rather on a health benefitting exercise. If current hair dryers are putting around dust accumulated on the back fans and being directed outwards, wouldn't it make sense to have a brushless motor idea such as the Air Blade to minimise particles from entering the user's lungs? I've already emailed my suggestion to Dyson UK last week, guys and I don't think it is THAT crazy an idea. We are already living in a world where so many manufacturers are producing machines with HEPA filters - Oreck springs to mind with their air purifier for one - Im speculating though and assuming that the Air Blade doesn't whirr back dust like standard fans do. You only need to look at the amount of dust that standard table fans accumulate through use.

Guys:

The professional grade dyson hand held hair drier would be a "possible" seller for the hair industry IF dyson replaced the product free if it failed during a 5-10 year period for any reason.  The product replacement period depends on the initial purchase price.  $400-$500 and dyson would have to give a 5 year free product replacement upon failure.  More pricey and a longer product replacement period is needed.

Obviously this would be strictly a niche product and market.  Targeting professionals in the hair industry.  These folks typically have yearly conferences and training programs which are an ideal venue for Sir James to hawk his product IF it ever materializes. 

Carmine D.

After a dyson's DC07 pink feeble attempts on my carpets including the exchanges with its technical assistance HELPLINE, I emailed dyson in September 2006 with my comments.  I stated that medium pile looped carpets rendered dyson's self-adjusting nozzle head in concert with its clutch unusable.  I advised that the design and operation of both dyson features did not work on these style of rugs and carpets.  I presume the same and worse dyson results with higher pile.  Dyson responded in agreement to my message and said it would refer my comments to its engineering department for future consideration.  The clutch is obsolete and comments and results such as mine were in part the reason for the clutch's demise on all dyson upright models after DC14.

Carmine D.

An air purifier's job is just that -- purifying the air. A hair dryer's job is hair drying. That said, innovation is great BUT if expected to be mass marketable it still has to be affordable, easy to maintain and literally a no-brainer to be used by that motley crew, the public. I believe that practicality sells faster than "innovation".

Small appliances are best kept simple. Filtered air delivery is a nice idea but again potential disaster for appliances like table fans and hair dryers and bound tio cause more problems than they solve.

The actual advantage of the brushless motor as regards power output, power consumption and length of life has, to my knowledge, not been presented here. If brushless motors are effective, affordable to buy and economical to replace, bring 'em on I say. However, that so far has not proved to be the case. When I hear of new-fangled motors I also here of high price.

As well, it has not been clearly stated if these motors are replaceable or easily repairable. If one goes bad in an item I buy, do I take it to MOLE to be fixed or do I dump it? Will the manufacturer replace it? Though I am looking forward to a day when electric motor size is dramatically reduced while maintaining the power average, for most household applications presently in place we appear still better served with standard electric motors.

Vacmanuk, the bigger issue in the home environment is not carbon dust from appliances that we use in ten-minute spurts but ourselves. Stats still have it that we -- by way of the myriad skin cells, etc., (human detritus) that we shed each day -- are the greater producer of household dust.

I'm glad to learn that you mother has maintained and kept her hair dryer for eight years but how have the majority of her neighbors fared with theirs?

By the way guys, I have yet to see an Air Blade here in town. I have seen many new, very fast hand dryers installed in stores and businesses all over the place but have not made one sighting of the Air Blade.

Motorhead, my argument is just about the same here too. Good steering I worry about when I in drive my car. I have used many, many vacuum cleaners over my life and have seen no great difficulty in maneuvering any of them. I learned how to work with the machine I had at any given time.

A vacuum with "power steering" would probably be great for you or me but a disaster on the larger market. There's too much to go wrong, especially in the hands of careless users and those impatient persons who never read user guides. Unfortunately, it is generally accepted that all you need do is plug in your machine and go. To make a vacuum with an electrified steering system could be done I'm sure but to make an appliance that's impervious to it's greatest threat, being in the hands of humans, probably can never be executed in a cost-effective manner. These ideas are probably best left to the robot makers.

New ideas that are anticipated to be salable to the masses have to made for the tech-savvy AND the not so tech-savvy. They should also be priced in close enough budget range for those with challenged budgets to feel the items are something worth reaching for. New innovation priced for the few is not my idea of making good business. The idea of getting some of everybody's money is.

Best,

Venson

Hey Motorhead,
Venson as Severus wants you to believe he’s friendly of Tom and friendly to Dyson.  Severus as Venson sits on his hands as his buddies here attack Tom often and with vigor.  His Dyson position typically is - Dyson inventions are no good, cost to much, can’t make money, don’t solve problems, he’s not buying a Dyson anything, so why bother (Dyson should close their doors).  Although he is a believer that the tired bagged vacuum, in the public domain commodity (vacs his buddies livelihood’s depend on) are exciting, fresh and radically differing amongst the umpteen manufacturers.  A brushroll, a suction generator, a collection sack/filter and mounted on 4 wheels...  I described just about every bagged vacuum cleaner on the planet and since the 1960’s.   *Are you laughing? - I am!

Venson as Severus,
The stupidity title is yours.  Since the forum opened all posters who click the quote link simply write their comments under the quoted text.  Why in the world would you post above the quote, which makes for quoting you and the thread organized.  Or is this a feeble attempt at making yourself appear not as Venson?  Are you laughing? - I am!

DIB


*I support American mfg big time, if they have integrity, if they employee Americans at a fare wage - regardless of inventiveness.

DIB:

More of your usual dyson idiosy and lunacy.  Can't you/dyson accept constructive realisitc criticism of dyson's product foibles, fantasies, and fallacies without blaming and condemning the truthsayers, vacuum indies, non-dyson buying consumers, vacuum industry, and vacuum competition? 

Here's a novel mature approach for you.  Take responsibility.  Be accountable.  Own up to all dyson's product limitations and shortcomings.  Perhaps, dare I say, even address them honestly, quickly and professionally.  This business like and intelligent approach would actually increase dyson's sales rather than lessen them.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
The reason I have so much success in life and much “fruit” in my life is because I refuse to listen to the corrupt words of men.  Since you're of religious status, I understand the many why’s to your many failures.

The Book says to put off the corruptible and put on the incorruptible.  I do not get the religious; I see nothing remotely fun or fulfilling about it?

DIB

DIB:

You proclaim the Book but do so out of context.  There is a huge difference between a leap of faith and a leap of foolishness.  The Book tells us to beware of false prophets and the unleavened bread of the Pharisees. 

Even the Divine Master enjoyed the fellowship of the table with scribes, tax collectors, and whores.  Recall the 12 he chose as the Apostles, bearer of the good news, were weak men prone to sin, greed, lust, lack of faith, lack of hope, and lack of love and mostly definitely cowardice.  One even betrayed Him for money.  All whilst they professed to Him otherwise.  Fortunately they received the gift of the Holy Spirit.  But like all God's graces one must be open to receive it.

They're are none so blind as they who will not see. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Is there a scripture that supports what you do?  Feel free to post chapter, verse and in context, anything that supports the many ways you 1) attack Dyson or 2) hurt the Susan G. Komen Foundation by using the pink Dyson as your personal Dyson-envy platform.

Use the Holy and not Catholic Bible please (I'm not Catholic).

DIB

DIB:

10 Commandments and the Beatitudes. 

With a purchase of a dyson DC07 pink I contributed $45 to the Susan G. Komen foundation.  Never returned the unusable dyson in part so not to renege on the contribution.  I told you that before here several times.  Pay attention.

Use any version you of the Bible that you like, they are all knock offs of the Catholic Bible.   Recall it was St. Jerome, the crouchy Saint, who compiled the first Bible, a Catholic version, in the 4/5 th Century, if memory serves me correctly.  BTW, I read the King James [no pun intended] version in college.  Good, but I still prefer the Catholic.  How about you?  

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:
Hey Motorhead,
Venson as Severus wants you to believe he’s friendly of Tom and friendly to Dyson.  Severus as Venson sits on his hands as his buddies here attack Tom often and with vigor.  His Dyson position typically is - Dyson inventions are no good, cost to much, can’t make money, don’t solve problems, he’s not buying a Dyson anything, so why bother (Dyson should close their doors).  Although he is a believer that the tired bagged vacuum, in the public domain commodity (vacs his buddies livelihood’s depend on) are exciting, fresh and radically differing amongst the umpteen manufacturers.  A brushroll, a suction generator, a collection sack/filter and mounted on 4 wheels...  I described just about every bagged vacuum cleaner on the planet and since the 1960’s.   *Are you laughing? - I am!

Venson as Severus,
The stupidity title is yours.  Since the forum opened all posters who click the quote link simply write their comments under the quoted text.  Why in the world would you post above the quote, which makes for quoting you and the thread organized.  Or is this a feeble attempt at making yourself appear not as Venson?  Are you laughing? - I am!

DIB


*I support American mfg big time, if they have integrity, if they employee Americans at a fare wage - regardless of inventiveness.
*****************************************




DBI,

I always did appreciate Tom's well informed opinions.  that doesn't mean I always agreed with him.  He's could certainly be stubborn at times, and I don't think it's ethical to buy a new vacuum at Walmart, abuse it and take it back for a refund.   He bought UK Dysons and had 220V switches installed in his home to run them.  So he certainly had experience with the vacuums he discussed.    His experience selling Rainbows is I think what caused his perception of reality to be skewed slightly.   But he at least had some common sense - you have none.   I could accept Tom's message, because you could find some substance under the Dyson rose tinted glasses and hyperbole.  Your contribution is about the size of a dust mite's waste product.. 

Unlike you, he did successfully run a vacuum cleaner store.  He did consulting work on the design of the Airway anniversary canister vacuum.    He had a huge vacuum collection, and he was a nationally recognized for his knowledge of vacuums.  You DBI, are no Tom Gasko.  You read an article on the internet, and suddenly you think you are some kind of expert.  

Severus wrote:

SEVERUS, you may recall that Tom boasted about a Kirby salesman who unknowingly plugged his demo vacuum into the 220 electrical outlet, while Tom looked on silently.  It "fried the Kirby motor" to quote Tom's exact words.

Carmine D.

Darn it DIB, why won't you please share some of that stuff you're on? It's so selfish to fire up the pipe and not pass it around! A toot or two of whatever it is that's got you flying might do us all some good too.

Speaking for myself, Tom Gasko is someone I also have high respect for. When it gets down to vacuums, he knows his stuff. He's the only vacuum person I know who can quote a Rexair's place in time just by way of a serial number

In general the cloth of this forum is composed of persons who sell and repair vacuums or have had long involvement in taking note of their history and progression developmentally OR have used them at least long enough to tell one end from the other.

I don't always agree with Tom or MOLE or Carmine or Procare or Mike W. or Dusty or any number of members in this forum but I see no particular reason for prolonged debate on most issues. Why? Because we have had real talks about real vacuums for a number of years at this forum and others before it. I have the greatest trust that their opinions are solidly founded on their experience and knowledge -- not just whimsical fancy.

Venson as Venson

"...A vacuum with "power steering" would probably be great for you or me but a disaster on the larger market. There's too much to go wrong, especially in the hands of careless users and those impatient persons who never read user guides. Unfortunately, it is generally accepted that all you need do is plug in your machine and go. To make a vacuum with an electrified steering system could be done I'm sure but to make an appliance that's impervious to it's greatest threat, being in the hands of humans, probably can never be executed in a cost-effective manner. These ideas are probably best left to the robot makers..."

Sorry Venson but you've totally lost me on this rather large statement. Power steering you say? Like the geared mechanism self drive formula on Kirby vacuums or mostly self driven others that seem to only be high sellers in the U.S? About the only thing that has a similar drive mechanism in most of Europe and UK is of course, the Sebo X uprights or Sebo's commercial uprights - and these have been on sale, in large numbers on the commercial market since the 1970s. Or power steering of another nature?

vacmanuk wrote:
Hi vacumanuk,

I was referring to Motorhead's mention of a vacuum being developed with servo motors to enhance it ability to be turned left or right. Kirby and some Hoover vacuums do not have a steering capacity but are indeed self-propelled in that their transmissions move them forward and backward.

Venson

Venson wrote:

I have a lot to say about you goofs dumping on Tom.  I've learned more from Tom in 20 minutes than the 2 years from visiting and reading vacuum cleaner forums.  Are there any bad-mouthed, big-mouthed want-a-be’s here or elsewhere who prove bigger (close to the pulse) than Tom?...  Anyone here have the top-brass backing from a $200m corporation and the top-brass trust of a $1b dollar corporation?  Like I said, many of you guys are...  Goofs.

DIB


P.S.  I have not talked to the man in a few years, although I enjoy Motorhead’s posts.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

DIB (Dust mite in box),

I think it's great the success that Tom has had.  Tom is a great vacuum historian.  I can admire Tom without agreeing with everything he says.  I would say that I agree with him on more than I disagree with him on. 

I agree that you should find a way to spend more time with Tom so that you could get educated.   

Please explain this stuff about top-brass backing from a $200m corporation and the top-brass trust of a $1b dollar corporation.  What exactly do you mean by backing?   That's the problem with you, you write meaningless fluff.  Tom provides some concrete details.   We need a better Dyson rep on this forum. 

Severus wrote:
Peter Pan,

What you need can only be found with extensive therapy, but that would mean giving up on fantasy, deceiving and playing children's-roles.

DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Dyson DIB:

More proof and a self-admission that you have much more to learn about vacuums and all things related to them.

Carmine D.

News of some inital, positive results in Oz for the mighty Dyson marketing machine:-

Retailers help make Dyson Air Multiplier number one
http://www.current.com.au/2009/12/01/article/WCXCMFVYHB.html

Current.com.au understands the Dyson Air Multiplier has already become the number one product on the seasonal value charts. Cameron said the retailers had been great, supporting the product since the first shipments arrived...

The success of the Air Multiplier has confounded some critics, with observers at launch questioning whether a seasonal product with such a premium price tag could be successful. The lesson to be learned from this experience is that new technology, different technology and well-marketed technology will sell, no matter how expensive it is...

M00seUK wrote:

Hello M00seUK:

Thanks for the update.  Good to hear dyson is experiencing initial success for this product thanks to timing, a warm November, and excellent marketing. 

The vet with birds who shied away from fans with blades and raves about the dyson fan is a good endorsement for the product.

Carmine D.

Hi M00seUK,

Thank you, it was a nice article BUT where are the numbers? Also, for the sake of correctness, this device is a fan without exposed external blades.

Venson

Venson wrote:

Another question M00seUK since you seem to be in the know:  Are they in the USA other than the dyson web site?  I mentioned I was in Orange County, CA and thought due to the warm year round temps, it might be there.  But...No.  Nothing dyson in fact there.  Even here in the desert of LV, where we've had one of the 10 warmest Novembers in weather history, no new dyson fans anywhere.  So, until its here and available for sale, I can't really evaluate its success among retailers and buyers, as Ross Cameron was able to do.

It appears from this Business Week article that the new dyson fan will not be available in the USA until March 2010.  Some other interesting comments by Sir James about the 'failure of the Airblade" and current revenue for dyson $1B yearly.  A systematic yearly decline either a result of aggressive costs for R&D and drop off in unit sales and/or both.

http://www.businessweek.com/innovate/content/oct2009/id20091012_148303.htm?chan=innovation_innovation+%2B+design_product+design

Enjoy. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Strangely they went on sale in the UK today via the Dyson website, despite it being the coldest day of the winter so far! I'm sure they'll still shift a few though...

nick_sub wrote:

The link for dealer info is here: http://www.dyson.co.uk/fans/fanStores.asp

Venson

CarmineD wrote:
So...how much is this dyson fan gonna cost.....in the U.S.

Why was the Airblade a failure? seemed an excellent idea to me.

Trebor wrote:
In context of the article above, it's referring to a failure discovered during the development of the airblade product which lead to a chain of thoughts towards a new desktop fan design.

Venson wrote:
The exact numbers would be lovely, but I think it will be a cold day in hell before Dyson goes public and they're otherwise unlikely to share such data with us. But to say that based on this, their fan sales are looking fairly positive for the moment. If they can carve out a certain niche with those eye-watering margins, it won't be a bad return on 3-year's R&D, building on the digital motor / airblade work. The 'halo effect' PR-wise has to be good for their overall profile and the other product lines also.

Yep, of all the feedback I've seen on the Dyson fan - blog comments, tweets on on Twitter, the most common self-congratual point is the correction that it actually still uses a 'fan blade', just one inside the casing. To be expected, but kinda missing the point that by 'blade less' they mean it doesn't have a large blade up top, spinning in a cage, chopping up the air that's 'thrown' at you. The smaller-sized digital motor makes this part-way feasible, but the additional (crucial) benefit is that overall construction puts out around 15 times more air force than it pulls in via that 'little blade'. That's quite difficult to get across to folks, hence why Dyson has put a lot of effort in to diagrams and animations. It's even supposed to 'feel' better in cooling, as the airflow is more uniform.

retardturtle1 wrote:

Hello turtle1:

If the Business Week article I posted above can be believed, the retail prices of the dyson fans, once they hit the big box stores in the USA, will be comparable to the current competition which sell for $70 or so.  That's a huge decline from the existing $300. 

Carmine D.

M00seUK wrote:

Hello Trebor:

The article is sub titled: Flaw as function.  Here is the crux of the story on the reason why.

Dyson says the device came out of a defect in the Airblade, the energy-efficient hand drier for public restrooms that his company, Dyson, launched in 2006. Despite its jet-like exhaust, engineers noticed that the machine was trapping a lot of air inside. "We had no intention to make a fan," he says. "But the failure made us curious. We asked, What could we do with this high-speed air?"

Dyson and his staff studied the air flow, which was akin to a comfortable breeze. They thought they could harness the wind, but it didn't really apply to any existing products. So they moved on to consider what other everyday household products could be improved if they generated a focused breeze. They decided on the typical electric fan, which uses rotating blades to hack air into pieces that are then propelled at an uneven pace.

Interestingly both the dyson Airblade and AirMultiplier resulted from research and products of other intentions/inventions:  The dyson digital motor [AirBlade] and hand dryer [Air Multiplier].  Business gurus who study and advise on such things, tell us that success with new product development and technologies is tricky if not done properly.  With the best long term results achieved when companies share the new technologies and products with consumers and receive feedback about them.  With the feedback incorporated into the final versions for market.  We were told that dyson did this with his vacuums and in fact used consumers to test and trial his vacuum wares before mass marketing.  We also know that he did not follow the same course with dyson's Airblade and Air Multiplier.

Carmine D.

For those interested, Lev Grossman, the inventions' editor for Time magazine, announces the top best inventions for 2009 in this video.

http://bx.businessweek.com/designthinkingsocialenterprise/view?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.time.com%2Ftime%2Fspecials%2Fpackages%2F0%2C28757%2C1934027%2C00.html

No... dyson does not get mentioned, tho his bladeless fan was part of the mix for evaluation.  Scroll down to the block titled Video: Best Inventions for 2009 and click on more. 

Enjoy.

Carmine D.

Anyone really surprised by this ?

Dyson has not made anything that worked right since the dc07, and that was flawed. Welcome to the real world Mr inventor.

So how long will it take for the airblades to be sold on E-BAY at fire sale prices?

Why dont you guys try a reverse osmosis water system, Good luck, 

We told you so 5 years ago.

Hey DIB have you started your new management job at BURGER KING yet.

Dyson= FAIL

regards

MOLE

mole wrote:

Hello MOLE:

Interestingly, at least to me, dyson's USA site does not provide any prices for its AirBlades.  Instead after navigating through the ads and endorsements, the reader,buyer finally gets this suggestion if desiring to buy:

                                        Dyson Airblade™ hand dryer

                                                      Call 1-888-DYSON-AB now to order.

We know that the original MSRP was $1400 and its cost to produce about $840.  If we can believe the Forbes article in March 2008, and Sir James who was interviewed for the article, 100,000 were sold up thru then and 1000 gifted away.  Haven't seen any updates here to those numbers and as M00seUK suggests we probably won't.  We can only speculate the reasons for the secrecy.  However, knowing what I have read and seen here about all things dyson, I presume if the sales of the AirBlades are doing well, we'd have the news reports, sales and revenue numbers and endorsements saying exactly what they are.  Draw your own conclusions.

I have yet to see any dyson AirBlade anywhere in Las Vegas and/or in my travels in the USA.  While dyson's site says the LA Dodgers in California bought and use them, the equally famous Anaheim Angels Stadium in Anaheim California does not.  As I mentioned, despite all the tourists, baseball fans, and travellers to Orange County CA for the Angels games, California Adventure and Disney Theme Parks nothing there about any dyson products.

Carmine D.

mole wrote:
Mole,

Well, I see you came up for some fresh air and some sunshine.  Don’t over doit so you don’t burn.

I like Sir James’ world.  I bet he sees plenty of "real-world" looking down while flying in his corporate jet...  even the dopes run Who-Cares Manufacturing, which sits adjacent to ‘Door to Door Offload $2000 Worth of Commodity-Crap on the Elderly’ Manufacturing, which of course leases property from ‘All Bagged Vacuums Choke’ Manufacturing, who (on a clear day) can look out their windows and see the corporate giant - ‘Stuck For An Innovation Answer’ Manufacturing.


DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote:

DIB:

Like it or not, and regardless of your ill-will and words toward dyson's competition, dyson's pricing is killing it with the competition.  At half the price and even less, not just on vacuums but dyson's other product ventures, dyson can't compete in the market place, except as a very small niche player.  This is not enough to sustain a company like dyson that wants to be on the forefront of technology with household products.  Dyson needs big sales to keep the dyson infra-structure going.  You don't like to hear that reality but such is the essence of product development and sales in today's world.  Only the strong survive, not the technologically/marketing skilled.  Remember halo.

Carmine D.

Carmine,

The adolescents, DIB and Mole, our acting up again!  Should we make them sit in opposite corners of the room?

Sir James may be in the realm of consciousness of those individuals/corporations without need to boast or prove anything to anyone. Hubris or Humility? It depends on the individual.  I can think of any number of entertainers/sports stars who are very quiet outside of their public profession. Miele does not publish any figures of profit/loss either. Think they're going under?  The brass "in your face", "look at me", "bow and scrape" attitude of those who suddenly acquire money is pretty much an American attitude.  They have money, not wealth. There is a difference.  Regardless of what you think of James Dyson's products or his prowess as an engineer, he does engage the world with grace and class.

In reflecting on the whole Dyson phenomena,  I think he made one major error in judgment which led to several others:

He failed to realize at the outset that his largest markets would ultimately be the US and Canada.

This consequently led to a failure to consider 1) how much more carpet Americans have in their homes 2) How hard Americans are on their vacuums and 3) insufficient prototype testing by American consumers.

He had the success in front of him with the original Fantom. Place the multi-cyclonic bin on the Fantom carpet head, use a larger diameter hose and wand assembly, and bigger wheels. Viola! The first Fantoms were very good vacuums. Lots of them still running today. More complex is not always better. The concession to a manual carpet height adjustment would have saved a lot of Rube Goldberg engineering.

Peace,

Trebor

Trebor wrote:

Hello Trebor:

WRT MIELE, if you view the MIELE video on its web site the narrative states that over 1 MILLION vacuum units were shipped from the German plant last year.  This does not count the outsourced MIELE models of course that are sold in various markets.  At least for vacuums, with one million units made and shipped from Germany last year, that's a perspective on how well its vacuums are doing globally, in a recession global market.

Also, I am taking the liberty of posting a link right from MIELE's web site under the heading Facts & Figures which gives financial data for all years from 2000-2008.  Enjoy.

http://www.mieleusa.com/about_miele/about_miele.asp?nav=1&snav=3&tnav=3&oT=202&benefit=92

Note too that the banner at the top of this site is the MIELE S7 line.

Carmine D.

Trebor wrote: Trebor,

Indeed Mr. Dyson is a humble man, that’s why I enjoyed running some offense.  I might add, Sir James is a Billionaire and the suits owning or heading the older-more established, much bigger-wealthier vacuum corporations...are not.

Of Fantom...
Rube Goldberg?  The floating nozzle is a great consumer friendly setup and a great way of insuring the Dyson masses fill their clear bins. 

James Dyson was a [nearly broke, nearly defeated] inventor-licensor not an owner in IONA.  Per Sir James autobiography, IONA took advantage of an already dire situation and man (the Amway lawsuit - their thieving James Dyson’s inventions) and renegotiated James Dyson’s royalties to a lower rate.  This small time inventor was nearly destroyed (as an inventor and man) by giants.  I know making a difference (making life better via inventions or promoting inventiveness) has little meaning to many of the Dyson competitor suits, but I am fully aware these men appreciate money and chasing after as much money [for themselves] as possible. - Again, Sir James is the self-made Billionaire and they are not.  And yes! - I like saying it and reminding the suits and supporters of these suits just who is who.


DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Hello DiB:

I disagree with your statement that Sir James is a billionaire.  According to the latest article that you posted here about dyson and Sir James, his wealth status has been downgraded in 2009 to multi-millionaire, not billionaire as you write.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-business/article-23765305-dysons-pay-cut-in-profits-slip.do

As I pointed out, Forbes rated Sir James at $2 Billion in 2006, $1.6 Billion in 2007, and $1 Billion in 2008.  We'll have to wait to see what Forbes says in March 2010 for Sir James in 2009.   Typically the magazine rates and ranks billionaires only.  But, based on Forbes richest Americans published in October 2009, Forbes was forced to lower the bar to $997 Million.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Carmine,

I doubt his net worth is less than $1b.  Whatever his net worth is, no doubt he is the richest.

Note:  I always play the 'Who's the self-made and/or richest card' when I see Sir James getting a work-over on here.  Units sold, market size, etc., are meaningless by men who measure themselves by their net worth. - Which most suits and owners do.


DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote:

And that DiB is called an opinion, not a fact, and you are entitled to have one.

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:
CarmineD wrote:
Prove it out - Name bigger names, name bigger worth.

DIB

DIB,

I did not realize the IONA lease/royalty was connected to the Amway.

Nonetheless, the early Fantoms were/are great vacuums.  And I stand by my statement that a manual height adjustment on the Dyson would not have been a terrible thing, and it would have blessed the machine with a level of mechanical simplicity it lacks today.   I visited another of my vac shop friends who recently moved his shop. ( I am loaning him my expertise in space planning)   As I was leaving, I heard him say to a tech on the bench, "It's not a brush motor on that DC25. They don't go bad. You have to open up the dirt tube. There is a circuit board inside. It's in the wiring connection."   DIB, surely I heard wrong.  Why would anyone place any sort of electrical connection in the dirt path?

Trebor

DysonInventsBig wrote:

DiB:

Interestingly, you post a recent article here saying your idol is a multi-millionaire.  Then, proceed to call him a billionaire.  When I call you on the glaring contradiction, you dispute the article's credibilty with your own opinion.  Then, ask me to prove that the article, which you posted here, is true and your opinion is not.  Typical of for your thinking and dyson mindset. 

As I and others have told you many times when you play the Sir James wealth card, it is disingenous.  Wealth/money, call it what you will, is not a measure of accomplishment in business.  Success in business is a marathon not a sprint.  What is more poignant to me [and others] is that Sir James' wealth is declining.  Using your success measure [wealth/money] means dyson's success is declining. 

Carmine D.

Trebor wrote:

Hi Tebor:

I posted here about a defect in dyson's DC25 with the motor harness wiring.  Typically it fails with months of operation.  The news was reported to me by 'the" authorized dyson dealer here in North Las Vegas.  The dealer no longer sells the model.  And refuses to do so until the problem is corrected.

Carmine D.

Kudos to MOLE, and others here who agreed with him, who first noted the potential for problems with the vacuum motor located in the dyson ball.  They were right on.  Maybe they should be the billionares?

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:
CarmineD wrote:

Cameron,

Playing the wealth card is a quick and efficient way to sort out who’s doin what.  When Sir James is lied of, bad-mouthed, robbed, and copied - playing the wealth card has a certain satisfaction and illuminates the losers, has-beens, never-were’s, wantabe’s, lying manufacturers, their no inventive talent engineers, lazy marketing staff, etc.  Did I leave anyone out….  Oh yeah the angry at Dyson because I live in the UK and I can’t get a job and the always jealous.

He’s the richest vac inventor, owner-operator.  Calling me out and saying it’s my opinion and not demonstrating others bigger or wealthier makes you more and more less credible and inept.  Belly up Mr. 55 years of bad-as vac knowledge and history…  prove your theory… prove my statements as being an opinion and not based in [available] facts.  Start with…  who’s richer.  I can care less if he’s worth $700m or $2b.  He destroys them all (all suits and owners) even at $700m.

 

DIB

Purveyors of drugs, booze, sex, real estate and all sorts of other baloney make lots of money every day too. Shall we top-rate them as well?

For consumers, it's never always about how many sold but product that does well at providing the results it's expected to.

The question of what's good will probably never be answered as, the same as with cars, consumers are prone to get caught up in hype as opposed to real understanding of basic function. By all means, do the "I couldn't believe the dirt it got up" test with the brand and model vacuum of your choice. Go back and keep doing it again with the same until you're astonished by how little it picks up. The "answer" as to what's the better buy lies in how few times are needed to repeat the process and reach an obvious state of clean.

Venson

Trebor wrote:

Hey Trebor,

You should get the Dyson story straight by reading his autobiography vice listening to his competitors and/or their reps and/or forum mud-slingers.  Sir James names companies, names suits, names dates, names numbers and not one has taken him to court over it.  It’s based in fact.  After reading it, then compare it to what is being said of him in bagged-vac shops and in forums.  And for kicks go through the Patent offices and count up the earth-shattering patents filed by Dyson competitors and compare it to Dyson and see who’s revolutionized the tired industry and pumped up/brought excitement to the tired vacuum.

 

From memory…  Mr. Dyson licensed his patents to Amway and they paid him an advance (typically against future royalties).  Amway then wanted out of the agreement and wanted their advance money back.  Dejected (after being turned down all over Europe and America) and broke/nearly broke he went to Canada, to a little nothing of a company called Iona.  Struck a deal and all looked good, only Iona saw an Amway dual cyclone (called ClearTrak) in a Sears.  Iona being the wonderful suits they are, wanted to renegotiate Dyson’s royalties to a lower amount and Mr. Dyson conceded (he had to, he was broke and needed money).  Iona made Dyson sue or had him pay for the Dyson v. Amway lawsuit out of his Iona royalties.  Amway settled and a licensing deal was struck and oddly Amway had Dyson patent rights and territories to sell in and Iona had Dyson patent rights and territories to sell in.  When Venson and Cameron lie and say Sir James has a propensity to sue…  it is not based in fact or fairness.

Check out the two differing Amway ClearTrak’s in the Amway cheats inventor page.  One has a screen (shroud) and one does not.  I believe the screenless vac is the infringing model.  FYI – the first HEPA U.S. vac-related patent is seen in this Amway ClearTrak.  Interestingly and typically, Amway wanted to freely rip off Mr. Dyson and simultaneously apply for design and utility patents…  Deep pocketed scumbags!

 

Glad to hear your words of Fantom’s.  I own the Fantom Fury and loved it/love it.  My hose tore and the spines upright locking mechanism broke and I can care less!  It has never clogged, ever!  Coincidentally my mom as a teen used to babysit a girl who became a Walton Character and the actress/spokesperson in the Fantom Fury infomercials/how to use your Fantom Fury video  (Mary McDonough).  I bought my first Fury from the husband and wife vac dealer who were profiled in the infomercial.

 

Here’s one of the wildly exciting pre-Dyson Iona vacuums. > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqBqfTiXLHY

 

Dyson Invents Big