Vacuum Cleaners Discussions |
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ArtieV1
Joined: Jul 30, 2007
Points: 1
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"What has dyson invented now?"
Original Message Oct 11, 2009 11:23 pm |
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I received this "teaser email today: http://links.mkt2388.com/ctt?kn=1&m=2735925&r=MTgwOTM1MTgzMTcS1&b=0&j=NzgxMTAyODMS1&mt=1&rt=0
Anyone know what's up with this??
-=Art=-
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: "What has dyson invented now?"
Reply #165 Dec 4, 2009 3:37 pm |
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Cameron, Playing the wealth card is a quick and efficient way to sort out who’s doin what. When Sir James is lied of, bad-mouthed, robbed, and copied - playing the wealth card has a certain satisfaction and illuminates the losers, has-beens, never-were’s, wantabe’s, lying manufacturers, their no inventive talent engineers, lazy marketing staff, etc. Did I leave anyone out…. Oh yeah the angry at Dyson because I live in the UK and I can’t get a job and the always jealous. He’s the richest vac inventor, owner-operator. Calling me out and saying it’s my opinion and not demonstrating others bigger or wealthier makes you more and more less credible and inept. Belly up Mr. 55 years of bad-as vac knowledge and history… prove your theory… prove my statements as being an opinion and not based in [available] facts. Start with… who’s richer. I can care less if he’s worth $700m or $2b. He destroys them all (all suits and owners) even at $700m. DIB
dyson DiB:
You're not playing with a full deck. You're comparing apples to oranges. Dyson is a privately held and owned company, by Sir James and family. All his competition in the big box stores are publicly held corporations. Sir James keeps all the leftovers, after paying expenses. Corporations pay out dividends to the stockholders and stakeholders and the rest goes back into the Corporations' net worths. Now if you dare, compare the net worth of any of these vacuum corporations, dyson's competitor brands in the big box stores, with the net worth of Sir James. Then tell us who/which is the largest of all. Hint: It's not your idol. Carmine D.
This message was modified Dec 4, 2009 by CarmineD
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DysonInventsBig
Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454
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Re: "What has dyson invented now?"
Reply #166 Dec 4, 2009 4:15 pm |
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Cameron, Playing the wealth card is a quick and efficient way to sort out who’s doin what. When Sir James is lied of, bad-mouthed, robbed, and copied - playing the wealth card has a certain satisfaction and illuminates the losers, has-beens, never-were’s, wantabe’s, lying manufacturers, their no inventive talent engineers, lazy marketing staff, etc. Did I leave anyone out…. Oh yeah the angry at Dyson because I live in the UK and I can’t get a job and the always jealous. He’s the richest vac inventor, owner-operator. Calling me out and saying it’s my opinion and not demonstrating others bigger or wealthier makes you more and more less credible and inept. Belly up Mr. 55 years of bad-as vac knowledge and history… prove your theory… prove my statements as being an opinion and not based in [available] facts. Start with… who’s richer. I can care less if he’s worth $700m or $2b. He destroys them all (all suits and owners) even at $700m. DIB dyson DiB: You're not playing with a full deck. You're comparing apples to oranges. Dyson is a privately held and owned company, by Sir James and family. All his competition in the big box stores are publicly held corporations. Sir James keeps all the leftovers, after paying expenses. Corporations pay out dividends to the stockholders and stakeholders and the rest goes back into the Corporations' net worths. Now if you dare, compare the net worth of any of these vacuum corporations, dyson's competitor brands in the big box stores, with the net worth of Sir James. Then tell us who/which is the largest of all. Hint: It's not your idol. Carmine D. I covered my bases and you still managed to twist... so what else is new? Then tell me ‘O most dishonest one’, name a vac-suit that comes close to paying himself anything close to what Sir James makes. And if you choose to dodge the who's paid more than Mr. Dyson question, then tell me ‘I've got 55 years of mind-numbing vac knowledge’... who is the smartest and/or mightiest and/or greatest visionary of all the tired vacuum-suits? Dyson Invents Big Patent fact and a matter of public record: Dyson carries the tired vacuum industry.
This message was modified Dec 4, 2009 by DysonInventsBig
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: "What has dyson invented now?"
Reply #167 Dec 4, 2009 4:22 pm |
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Hey Trebor, You should get the Dyson story straight by reading his autobiography vice listening to his competitors and/or their reps and/or forum mud-slingers. Sir James names companies, names suits, names dates, names numbers and not one has taken him to court over it. It’s based in fact. After reading it, then compare it to what is being said of him in bagged-vac shops and in forums. And for kicks go through the Patent offices and count up the earth-shattering patents filed by Dyson competitors and compare it to Dyson and see who’s revolutionized the tired industry and pumped up/brought excitement to the tired vacuum. From memory… Mr. Dyson licensed his patents to Amway and they paid him an advance (typically against future royalties). Amway then wanted out of the agreement and wanted their advance money back. Dejected (after being turned down all over Europe and America) and broke/nearly broke he went to Canada, to a little nothing of a company called Iona. Struck a deal and all looked good, only Iona saw an Amway dual cyclone (called ClearTrak) in a Sears. Iona being the wonderful suits they are, wanted to renegotiate Dyson’s royalties to a lower amount and Mr. Dyson conceded (he had to, he was broke and needed money). Iona made Dyson sue or had him pay for the Dyson v. Amway lawsuit out of his Iona royalties. Amway settled and a licensing deal was struck and oddly Amway had Dyson patent rights and territories to sell in and Iona had Dyson patent rights and territories to sell in. When Venson and Cameron lie and say Sir James has a propensity to sue… it is not based in fact or fairness. Check out the two differing Amway ClearTrak’s in the Amway cheats inventor page. One has a screen (shroud) and one does not. I believe the screenless vac is the infringing model. FYI – the first HEPA U.S. vac-related patent is seen in this Amway ClearTrak. Interestingly and typically, Amway wanted to freely rip off Mr. Dyson and simultaneously apply for design and utility patents… Deep pocketed scumbags! Glad to hear your words of Fantom’s. I own the Fantom Fury and loved it/love it. My hose tore and the spines upright locking mechanism broke and I can care less! It has never clogged, ever! Coincidentally my mom as a teen used to babysit a girl who became a Walton Character and the actress/spokesperson in the Fantom Fury infomercials/how to use your Fantom Fury video (Mary McDonough). I bought my first Fury from the husband and wife vac dealer who were profiled in the infomercial. Here’s one of the wildly exciting pre-Dyson Iona vacuums. > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqBqfTiXLHY Dyson Invents Big dyson DIB: WRT dyson's litigousness, the facts speak for themselves: Kenneth J and the ASA. Sir James is 1 and 1. He won against the poor engineering student who represented himself against the dyson's high powered, high paid NYC lawyers with 3 names and 3 piece suits. Kenneth James lost on a technicality. Dyson lost against Eureka-Lux with the ASA over the claim that an Intensity with a full dirty bag outcleaned by 50 percent a DC14 with an empty bin. Carmine D.
This message was modified Dec 4, 2009 by CarmineD
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: "What has dyson invented now?"
Reply #168 Dec 4, 2009 4:37 pm |
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I covered my bases and you still managed to twist... so what else is new? Then tell me ‘O most dishonest one’, name a vac-suit that comes close to paying himself anything close to what Sir James makes. And if you choose to dodge the who's paid more than Mr. Dyson question, then tell me ‘I've got 55 years of mind-numbing vac knowledge’... who is the smartest and/or mightiest and/or greatest visionary of all the tired vacuum-suits?
Dyson Invents Big
Patent fact and a matter of public record: Dyson carries the tired vacuum industry.
dyson DiB:
You forget that Sir James sets his own yearly compensation for himself and his family members who are employees. This pay compensation would never fly with publicly held corporations where a board of independent business directors with a majority vote of the stockholders have to approve the pay of CEO's. Dare to compare net worth of dyson company to other company brands? Carmine D.
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Trebor
Joined: Jan 16, 2009
Points: 321
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Re: "What has dyson invented now?"
Reply #169 Dec 4, 2009 5:47 pm |
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Carmine and DIB,
Forget about Mole, you two need to be in time out.
As to the lawsuit against Amway, I knew about that, perfectly justified. I was unaware that it related to IONA. Against Hoover UK, I would say the same. When you get into peeing contests over advertising claims, it is always shaky ground, and the wind can blow either way, as James found out in the litigation over the "ballbarrow" name. Those sorts of things aside, there is the matter of the engineering student, who lost on a 'technicality'. I'd like to know about that one before passing judgment.
If he really was wronged on a mere technicality, then it was one of Sir James less-than-stellar moments. But the law has to have lines of demarcation, and sometimes the spirit of the law is trampled by the letter, hopefully not too often. As to the matter of using patents which have expired, IT IS NOT STEALING! What theft are you referring to, DIB? The law is the law, and since patents are unlike copyrights which are renewable, they have time limits, and once the time is up, they are public domain. Think what you will, but it is what it is. But please stop accusing manufacturers of theft. If they were stealing, Sir James has proven he has what it takes to sue and to win. If you meant something else, please explain, DIB. But you really hurt your case for being considered rational when you insist on repeating accusation which are not true. If you guys are intent on taking moral potshots at each other, you shouldn't cry 'foul' when the other makes a hit.
DIB, I was referring to the original Fantom, the one later called the Thunder. It was the best. A motor with a little more suck, a larger diameter hose and wand, a little easier to push, and the multi-cyclone, bottom empty dustbin, and viola, an vacuum ahead of its time even today. DIB, what do you have to say about the wiring harness in the dirt tube on the DC25? And the problematic clutch in the DC07 and 14?
Let's not forget 8,000 Dyson vacuums find their way into American homes each and every day, and it shows no sign of abating. Dyson has to continue winning an increasing share of the market to sustain that figure, however. The vacuum buying market has yet to decide what the least acceptable life-cycle is for a 300.00 to 500.00 vacuum. That is everything. If is say, 5 years, and people are repeat Dyson buyers, then Dyson's future is secure. If not, something has to change, reliability/longevity must go up, or prices must come down, or both. The market rules.
Trebor
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: "What has dyson invented now?"
Reply #170 Dec 4, 2009 6:39 pm |
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Hi Trebor: I took a time out. After 55 plus years of being self-employed in the vacuum cleaner sales and service business and an independent consultant to the vacuum industry, I retired. Can't take more of a time out than permanent retirement. BTW, I've read your posting of 8,000 dyson units sold several times now and I must say it sounds too good to be true. You know what "they" say when something sounds too good to be true. It usually is. With 55 years plus of experience, I get that trust but verify feeling with that number. What can you offer to assuage my feelings of doubt? Carmine D. |
CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: "What has dyson invented now?"
Reply #171 Dec 5, 2009 6:39 am |
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Purveyors of drugs, booze, sex, real estate and all sorts of other baloney make lots of money every day too. Shall we top-rate them as well?
For consumers, it's never always about how many sold but product that does well at providing the results it's expected to.
The question of what's good will probably never be answered as, the same as with cars, consumers are prone to get caught up in hype as opposed to real understanding of basic function. By all means, do the "I couldn't believe the dirt it got up" test with the brand and model vacuum of your choice. Go back and keep doing it again with the same until you're astonished by how little it picks up. The "answer" as to what's the better buy lies in how few times are needed to repeat the process and reach an obvious state of clean.
Venson
Hello Venson:
I support your standard for success in business. Is your product better than the competition? With vacuuming products, as you cogently say, does one/two passes do the job where others take 4 and/or 5 and more but still don't get it all like the one did with one pass/two. That's the test for vacuums. The argument from the other side [dyson DiB-ster] is always "bagless is better" because it's invented by a billionaire with 500 engineers. Really? Who cares, except the dyson employees and relatives? What can your vacuum, hand drier, fan, do in comparison to the competitors? When the competitors are one half and less in price than the "d" brand. Sir James' net worth is declining as consumers gets fooled once and do not continue to buy into the hype. Success is a marathon not a sprint. Carmine D.
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Trebor
Joined: Jan 16, 2009
Points: 321
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Re: "What has dyson invented now?"
Reply #172 Dec 5, 2009 10:58 am |
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Carmine,
That figure of 8,000 Dyson vacuums/day US comes from none other than Ton Gasko who no longer owns or manages a vac shop, and in fact works for one of the three vac manufacturers who 1) offer American made (not just American assembled) product, and offer multiple models and types of vacuums as well (The other two being Oreck and Aerus/Lux. He has no reason to lie in any regard, and has been much more objective in his evaluation of Dyson product and design. He has met James Dyson, and while I do not think he wants to see Dyson fail, he has no vested interest in seeing him succeed either.
That's do a little math, shall we? 8,000 x 365= 2,920,000. I have not seen total unit sales of vacuums in the US for 2009 thus far, but if we take 18,0000 as a conservative figure, that is 15% -16% of all new vacuum sales. If you consider that nearly 50% of all household vac sales in the US are at a price point of about $100.00 out the door, then it means Dyson has nearly 1 in 3 sales of new vacuums over 100.00. This is really the relevant figure since all Dysons even the hand vac sell at 100.00. Since 100% sold will not stay sold, lets assume a hefty return of 1/3, still nearly 2,000,000 vacuums/ yr, nearly 10% of all new vacs sold in the US and nearly 20% of all new US vacs sold OVER 100.00. ALL EIGHT of the vac shops here in town sell new Dysons, because they figure they CANNOT afford NOT to.
If someone comes in wanting a Dyson, they will buy it somewhere. If they need service, they will bring it back to the store where they bought it. If they ask, "What do you think of Dysons?" The answer of "I carry them because they are popular" will either result in a sale, or more questions from the buyer. An unhappy Dyson owner will find a shop offering Dysons and other brands more credible than one who does not. Again the response: "I carry them because they are popular"
All in all the figures are quite plausible.
Trebor
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: "What has dyson invented now?"
Reply #173 Dec 5, 2009 1:19 pm |
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Hello Trebor: Where did Tom Gasko get the number? If that is the foundation of your figures, and it is, I call it junk math. Carmine D. PS: Trebor, here's how my junk math goes with vacuums FWIW. I would put the number of new full size vacuum sales in the USA from April 2008 to May 2009, latest credible and complete numbers, at 20 MILLION units. With 17-18 M as new ups and the rest new canns. HOOVER TTI easily has 35 plus percent of the market share. BISSELL 15 percent, perhaps a tad less. Eureka/Lux about 20 percent. DIRT DEVIL/Royal easily 15 percent plus. ORECK 10 percent or less. All other brands, RICCAR/SIMPLICITY, door-to-door like Aerus, KIRBY etc, and imports like dyson, MIELE, Sebo etc. account for the rest. These are all small players in the new vacuum sales market but niche sellers that are fairly consistent year over year, unlike the above big box store brands and models. A reason in part RICAR/SIMPLICITY, whose products I like, are planning to build canns in the USA. Taking a page from ORECK for USA made. Canns are on the increase in sales in the USA. Of the 2.5-3 M canns sold, Kenmore owns easily 25-30 percent of the market. RICCAR/SIMPLICITY wants a share of that market and thinks the Kenmore cann market is ripe for the taking. I wouldn't swear to any of the above on a bible. But I'd say these are pretty close to actuals for the time period. As I posted to you, MIELE prints its yearly units on the Web Site: One MILLION made and shipped yearly in 2008. It is the top seller of high end canns in Europe with 2/3 of the 1 MILLION sold there. It too, like RICCAR/SIMPLICITY, wants more of the USA cann and even upright market. It wants to dominate the high end vacuum market in the USA. As MIELE succeeds and it has, and RICCAR/SIMPLICITY too, they pull sales from high price makers/sellers like quess who!! Yep, dyson. Reason that dyson market share/net worth going down. MIELE/RICCAR, SIMPLICITY have gone up. And perhaps the reason Tom G. is no longer in the dyson camp and instead beds down now with RICCAR/SIMPLICITY. Sound plausible????? 
This message was modified Dec 5, 2009 by CarmineD
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