Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Seen the new VAX line of bagless yet? better quality and performance?...at a far lower price.

Some say its stolen Dyson tech...some say its VAX xposing Dyson as a rip off [over priced] over hyped vacuum......that dyson is slipping[sinking brand]...that a dyson can be had at a fraction of the cost and with a warranty thats actually useable.......solved all the dyson flaws.....without the dyson shaft at the register. That VAX has zeroed in on dyson and plans to come at him head on.  If this is true ..then some drastic changes are due at dyson ....and another dyson [im a victim] lawsuit will come.......as always.

turtle1

VAX has a storied and starried history in the vacuum industry.  Also, recently acquired as I understand by TTI, owners of Royal, Dirt Devil, and HOOVER.

Thanks for the heads up turtle1. 

Carmine D.

retardturtle1 wrote:

Another compliment for Dyson.  The standard to be compared to.

Ever notice that you can always buy cheaper from a thief.  They have no overhead.  Same as the vac companies that steal design.

HARDSELL wrote:

Why pay cadillac prices [read premium] for an every day average run of the mill ho hum mediocre car and ride?  Isn't this thievery?  Same with vacuums, my friend.  You have said here on many occasions that there are no vacuums worth $600.  I presume you include dyson in your statement?  Or do you consider a premium priced product made in a third world country that has labor rates of one-third the amounts of most industrialized nations as an unworthy brand to be included?

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

You should include Oreck as a mediocre (or less ride) at Mercedes pricing. 

Dyson prices are too high.  They do, however, give back to employees who develop new technology.

Are you referring to Hoover being made in third world country?

HARDSELL wrote:

HS:

Dyson prices are not just high.  They are, as you said in the past, not worth the prices.  Keep the free toilet shuffle.  Dysons are no better than any of the other big box rip off store vacuum brands.  Except for prices which are the highest.  Dyson is made in malaysia, a third world country, by contract staff, who obtain the dyson contract by bidding on it with the lowest labor and overhead rates.  Thievery, HS.

ORECK is made in the USA with a network of 550 authorized ORECK stores nationwide to service/warranty ORECK products.  If it is overpriced for performance, then you should consider the higher price as the same as paying extra for extended service plans.  It's an insurance policy.  You can identify with this concept.  You paid extra for an ESP on your dyson.  Or did you get a dyson refurb free?  Besides, wouldn't you, like most all Americans, be willing to pay a little more for home grown American products to keep jobs here in the USA?   Especially a company like ORECK with a brand name that has been in existence for almost 50 years in the USA. No, I forgot you just bought a HOOVER TTI knock off of ORECK, made in China, for $299, or was it $399?

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Where are those cheapie Hoovers made that you buy in the big box stores?  How about that Fusion that failed to kill Dyson and destroy all your predictions?

I paid $19 for and extended warranty.  Not $500 or more like on the XL21.

Mexico and China HS.  The difference is that they are worth the $54-$75 paid for their performance. 

My ORECK, made in the USA, costs $199 on sale without the giveaways.  Bought 4 like it at the same price.  Maybe you should be a better shopper/buyer for your vacuums. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

What difference does performance matter.  Not made in the USA and not bought at an indy.  You are still a hipocrite

I am a better shopper.  I do not listen to biased opinions.  Would rather make my purchase based on my needs.  I only had to buy 1 Oreck to realize how poorly they perform.  Now you have been through how many Hoovers and Orecks ?

HS:

True to form.  When you lose the argument on its merits, you resort to name calling.  

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

I am not the one who criticizes bb stores and its products.  THEN BUYS THE JUNK FROM THEM. 

You said buy USA made products and then you by imports from those stores that you call rip offs.

Yes. TRUE TO FORM for you. 

HS, it's so simple even you should understand.  The best vacuum brands are sold by indies.  The most popular, most profitable, and best selling vacuum brands are sold by big box rip off stores.  If you want the best brand for the money, buy from a vacuum store.  If you want the most popular brand for the money, buy from a big box rip off store.  I do both for my own personal and professional reasons.   

Carmine D.

I say good luck to Vax for producing good products at low cost.  Yeah I like Dyson but they are overpriced and are not any better then other models out there.  The wands are now made out of plastic so this will be even cheaper for them produce, they are made in Malayisa yet the prices are not going down.  The Vax cylinder which seems to have a quiet noise level is a huge welcome as Dyson are generally noisy.  The metal wands are also a welcome as I dont like the alluminium and plastic wands on Dyson cylinders.  i wish they would go back to using steel like on the DC02 and the first lot of DC05's. 

The last round of Vax bagless vacuums was rather mediocre in the CR evaluations.     If I remember correctly, they were difficult to push and didn't clean all that well.   One of the ways that cheaper bagless vacuums compensate is by forcing the consumer to pay a fortune for replacement filters.  I would want to know the expected cost of filters before I would buy any bagless vacuum. 

If I recall correctly, and its been awhile, the VAX X3 and X5, both pre-TTI ownership, used soft bristle full tuft brush rolls.  I recall opining that this style of brush roll is more suited to Euro rugs and carpets than USA.  The HEPA filter in these are lifetime like the other bagless brand.  The price for the VAX HEPA is $25-$30.  A feature that women find desirable is the scented filter liners for $8-$10 in 4 different fragrances.  I liked the cord winder feature on them.  While initially priced high, the prices came down precipitously, before the big box rip off stores culled them from their shelves.  It will be interesting to see the new line post TTI takeover.  I suspect the brush roll tufts will be a tad more agressive for better pick up and grooming on USA carpets.

On a positive note, while these old VAX models are still available new at reasonable prices, I could not find any VAX X3 and X5 refurbs on the internet.  None.

Carmine D.

Not quite.

Actually, Vax's line up uses a copied system to the Dual Cyclone patent that Dyson's patent of has ran out so it is of no surprise that Vax and any of the other TTI industries owned outfits are all doing the same kinds of technology; even Hoover's Airvolution is similar to the Dual Cyclone on design. However whilst they may well be able to offer the same principle as Dyson, the fact still remains that the new claimed Vax system still demands owners to wash the filters much more than that of a Dyson owner and I've yet to experience ANY of the Vax uprights that are low on noise; their latest builds are not well made and the X3 series is a very old design.

Whilst I never washed my Dyson filters, I admired the low cost of the DC01 in the first couple of years and didn't have to clean any filter shrouds - unlike those of the current Vax line ups. Put simply whilst it may be apparent that Vax have copied the Dual Cyclone idea, Dyson is about 10 years ahead with the latest cyclonic system that betters the Dual Cyclone idea (Root?).

The X3 / X5 series appeared in the UK in 2004/5 under the Bosch brand (of which Bosch paid Vax for) (BUC11700) and as the Vax VX1 and VX3. I think it was then cosmetically altered and updated a little in 2007 when it went on sale in Australia before it came to the U.S late last year. Certainly I can recall when Vax in Australia featured the X series heavily. I used to have one for a short period and wasn't that impressed with it despite having a twin motor system/motored brush roll and a pesky reset button that had to be constantly re-jigged each time the motor belt slipped - that and the lousy elephant's trunk type short metal tube at the front which was always far too short for my liking. However Carmine whilst I agree that the brush rolls were softer I found they didn't pick up dirt on polymer carpets/thin loop pile. The current brush rolls are all manufactured to one standard where Vax is concerned; most of their UK line up is based on old Dirt Devil U.S models so the bristles are quite hard, Chinese made and against most of their prices in the UK, I used to order drive belts off EBay in the U.S for my older Vax uprights (Dirt Devil) which were far cheaper and more cost effective to purchase despite overseas waiting delivery times.

Carmine also predicted that the Vax (and all other brands) would be the demise of Dyson. Dyson is going strong, Vax all but disappeared, and Hoover went busted.

Such a prophet.

HARDSELL wrote:

Dyson won a battle [at BEST BUY stores with VAX].  Not the war.  The war for sales is still being fought at all retailers.  Dyson sales are waning quickly while other vacuum brands sales are rising.    

Carmine D.

Well, long may it continue then because at the end of the day if there wasn't such a diverse line up of brands and products we'd all have to buy a Dyson if we want a cyclonic vacuum.

Off topic here, it reminds me strongly of when Datsun/Nissan entered the UK market with their Japanese saloons; they caused controversy because they were so plainly designed but against the mass brands and the crap of British engineering (my parents were Volvo, Audi and later Toyota fans!) the Japanese motor industry could churn out cheaper priced cars sporting the same features at less cost and reliability to boot. Hyundai and latterly Kia copied this idea in the 1990's and have a much better package in terms of home grown products.

Interestingly though Vax have always been British until they merged with Dirt Devil in the late 1990s and then with TTi. Most buyers in the UK don't even know that but if they did they would probably react in the same way when they discovered Dyson had moved production from the UK to Asia; i.e. a distinct lack of purchase power. Despite the changes in production, as brands Vax and Dyson have always been in trouble with each other. It's not pay back however, but a sign of the times - particularly in the UK - people aren't prepared to pay top prices for quality or new technology especially with a recession on.

The bagged vacuum industry in the USA is not ready to concede victory to bagless brands yet if ever let alone to dyson.  The former is still in the lead among vacuum buyers and users.  The latter are still fighting amongst themselves for the sales venues at the big box rip off stores.  With the schism between both [bagged and bagless] increasing year over year.  This phenomenon as much as the bad economic times are both powerful consumer forces working in concert to beat down the sales of the highest priced bagless brand.  Certainly, not a good indicator for a bagless brand and bagless dirt containment mode that boldly predicted would make bagged vacuums obsolete like the horse and carriage. 

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:
Dyson going strong? Is that fact or your opinion? Those are serious questions on my behalf. The reason I am asking is because of some of the recent discussions on dealer are sites reporting issues relating to financial dealings with Dyson that don't sound normal or business as usual. I am just curious.

Hello Lucky1:

I posted your concerns awhile back under a new topic:  Dyson going bankrupt?  Especially to DIB, but welcome any and all comments.  No responses as yet forthcoming.  As I mentioned, it was an industry rumor.  But apparently you are hearing the same.  You know how these work.  They spread quickly and are usually right.

I saw TV commercials for Saturn cars right up to the same day that GM annouced the deal with Penske fell thru, and the line would be scrapped.

Carmine D.

Lucky1 wrote:

I suppose that 'going strong' is an exageration in today's market.  Oreck as example has has to resort to selling left overs at Costco.

My point is that Dyson has survived better than the Hoover and Vax that was predicted to ruin Dyson.

HARDSELL wrote:

HS:

I detect a toilet shuffle on your part.  Back peddling.  Dyson is faltering big time, my friend, in all its markets big and small.  It has been since quarter 4 of  2007.  HOOVER, VAX,  and yes even ORECK at COSTCO stores as well as other vacuum brands are increasing and/or maintaining sales while dyson sales have slumped.   That's not bickering, HS, these are facts.  You and others here who boasted of dyson's past sales success want to divert attention away from the onerous dyson news which will inevitably come to light here. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

No shuffle Carmine.  Are you saying that all other brand sales are up?

I am not boasting or diverting.  You missed the mark sooo many times on the demise of Dyson.  THat is a fact.

Oreck sales must have slumped.  Why else would they have such an abundance of lefto over models to sell in a national store such as Costco.  Hasn't happened before.  Current models are also available at JC Penny.

HS:

Back peddling on a statement YOU MADE about dyson sales is the pay toilet shuffle. 

I said at several different times that I hear a dirge playing for dyson.  Now, it's not just me saying so, my friend.  I was the first to hit the mark but others here have hit it now too.  It's dyson that is on the respirator HS to use a term that you coined.    Nothing will breathe life into it.  It's too darn late.   

Carmine D.     

CarmineD wrote:

I have said numerous times that Dyson was following Hoovers footsteps.  Hoover already bit the dust and Dyson could very well follow.

HS:

More back peddling with the pay toilet shuffle.  VAX, as in TTI owned, as in owner of HOOVER, is re-entering the bagless vacuum market now because VAX hears the dirge music.    You thought the sounds of the music were celebratory.   You were right.  It is party time for HOOVER and VAX.  The dyson party times are over.  BTW, that's not my line.  And I wasn't the first to use it.  MOLE gets the kudos not me.  

Carmine D.

Well the Mole is talking through a hole in their backside

It doesn't matter what Dyson do in the U.S The fact of the matter is, just because something is "best selling," doesnt mean its the best all rounder. No point in arguing who is cheaper than Dyson because we all know and its due to TTi. However if I was to choose a bagless cyclonic I'd still go with Dyson and that's simply because of the fact that I know I won't have to clean the filter every 3/6 months and that the tools are up to the job plastic PVC or not. Dyson tools are legendary in being slightly better designed than most of the TTi copied stuff

CarmineD wrote:

Hoover's pinada was busted (by Dyson) and the party is over.  VAX disappeared after all your bragging how it was taking over at BB.

Could it be that TTI will have to buy Oreck and salvage their name also?  Heck, they may be able to get it to clean carpets.

HS:

I see the point you are making while you are doing the pay toilet shuffle.  It's okay in your opinion for dyson to go belly up because it's following the HOOVER example.  I don't buy into your song and dance routine.  Dyson should follow the examples of good business actions and companies in the industry, not bad.  If it doesn't know the difference, then it's dyson sales and business that suffer, not the competition.  There's no one else to blame and point to except dyson.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Carmine, I am not blaming anyone but Dyson for its failure.  Now go back and look at all the excuses that you made when Hoover failed.  Hoover had more opportunity than Dyson to follow those same good business actions.  A century of experience, made in the USA, name was a legend.  Greed and stupidity at the top ruins the best of them. 

Did you ever think that we would be that close in our opinions?

HS:

I've said many times here that HOOVER's decision to kow tow to the big box rip off stores in the 1960's at the expense of the indies, was it's downfall.  Took almost 4 decades for the truth that I spoke way back then to come to full fruition.  That said it doesn't take away from the fact that HOOVER is and always will be the gold standard for rug cleaning and grooming. 

Dyson has it's own long list of problems.  The least of which is trying to emulate HOOVER.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Actually Hoover and most everyone else has tried to emulate Dyson.  The list of Hoover problems may exceed Dyson's.

HS:

If I read this topic correctly, VAX, owned by TTI which owns HOOVER, is introing a new line of bagless vacuums that compete directly with dyson at the big box rip off stores and are considerably less expensive.  Explain to me please how this is a problem[s] for VAX, HOOVER, TTI, rather than dyson?  As I see it and said it, VAX is reentering the bagless market with new products because it sees an opportunity among disgruntled big box retailer and customers with dysons.  Why?  It hears a dirge playing for dyson.

Carmine D. 

CarmineD wrote:

Hoover tried for years to emulate Dyson.  VAX tried and failed.  They were not a problem for Dyson at the time.  You predicted both would be the doom of Dyson.  Neither you nor I know what the future holds for any of these.

Now they are trying to unseat Dyson with bagless machines. not bagged.  Please explaine who is emulating who in this scenario.

How are sales for the Hoover Z and Fusion?

HS:

Your lips are flapping while your feet are shuffling but the pay toilet is locked and occupied.  Dyson's problems are of its own making.  Period, end of story.  VAX sees an opportunity, hears the dyson dirge playing, knows the big box retailers' rap on dyson sales, and is going for the dyson jugular.   Many buyers/users of both VAX and dyson prefer VAX and always have over dyson.    To each his/her own.  May the best product for the price win. 

Carmine D.

Hi guys,

I'm at a loss here. Which Vax machines are we talking about? I checked out the American Vax site but found nothing new, just the same machine they produced for several years.

Is the new line composed of models already on market in Europe? Check out the following link:


http://www.vax.co.uk/shop/catalogue/upright-vacuum-cleaners/mach-upright

Venson

Hi,

Also check out the "30th Anniversary Range" link at the UK website.

Venson

CarmineD wrote:

Yes.  However, more users prefer Dyson as evidenced by Dyson pushing Hoover into bankruptcy and pushing VAX out of BB.

You may also be interested to know that many users prefer Dyson over Oreck.

HS:

Your facts like you are skewed.  HOOVER and VAX are not bankrupt nor ever were.  They were both bought in arms length above board business transactions by TTI.  Why?  Save that for another discussion at another time. 

The issue here, as I see and said it, is not who likes which brand better and why.  I'm sure many current buyers and users enjoy their dysons and if they could would probably buy another.  Except of course you.  You liked your DC07 so much you sold it and didn't buy another new dyson.  Why?  You told us you don't like any dysons as much as a DC07.  Others here like you have said dysons are no better than any other bagless brands and not worth the higher prices.  Dyson has cheapened them and charged more.  [You went to a bagged instead.  Go figure.]  I'm sure there are lots of vacuum users and buyers like you and others who bought and used dysons and returned them for other bagless brands.  Or want to upgrade their dysons after 5-6-7 years but don't want to pay the higher dyson prices now vice when they bought.  These are the customers that VAX is targeting at the the big box rip off retailers.  

Now, research VAX refurbs on the internet and let me know what you find, if anything. 

VAX/TTI is on to something with their above strategy and that's dyson's jugular. 

Carmine D.

Hi Venson:

Rumors are circulating in the vacuum industry that VAX has enjoyed such huge success in the UK [dyson country] despite the economic malaise that TTI wants to add a new bagless VAX line in the USA.  The questions you raise are valid.  The answers are that we have to wait and see when and what comes out.  I have to think that based on the mediocre rug ratings VAX 3 and VAX 5 received several years ago in the USA that TTI will opt for a more USA rug/carpet suitable brush roll than the EURO.  And of course at less expensive prices than dyson.

Carmine D.

Venson wrote:
Howdy big V, i looked at the uk link.

Cant make heads or tails out of these,look like old hoover machs to me.The old vax's were old bosch siemens pieces that were sold at the box stores in the states.What a huge mistake that was.Although the girls in the advertising were not bad looking.

regards

MOLE

mole wrote:

Hello MOLE:

As you know TTI produced the FUSION and FUSION plus for HOOVER and the big box stores even before TTI bought HOOVER.  These were huge selling successes primarily due to their prices.  These along with the Mach's that superceded and the current line of VAX cleaners in the UK all share the same look.  The VAX name, history and past bagless products, including association with bosch/siemens, adds competitive clout and interest to a new bagless VAX product line in the USA market.  Again, primarily targeting big box retailers where customers are growing weary of dysons.  But never know, maybe indy models too, especially if the female models come with.

Carmine D.

"...Rumors are circulating in the vacuum industry that VAX has enjoyed such huge success in the UK [dyson country] despite the economic malaise that TTI wants to add a new bagless VAX line in the USA..."

Right. Here's a brief history of British Vax as it was known until the mid 1990s because as far as I can see the U.S website is a lot of marketing and not much history of the actual British company. In turn if you think having the Bosch/Siemens clout seems to add a gold like halo, think again; Bosch ceased the upright vacuum because it was unpopular, heavy and not reliable.

Right up until 1990, Vax were solely British and sales relied upon their canister vacuums that could wash carpets through suction only floor-heads that put wash solution into the carpet at the same time as sucking out the dirt. These became known as "3 in 1" canister vacuums, three things they could achieve ; pick up dry dirt and a large canister paper bag, pick up water and pick up the carpet cleaning function. These machines had been going since the 1970s and Vax were initially a door to door sales enterprise before getting in the main market. Their canister vacuum has hardly changed since the 1970s although they are now made in China, less well made and have lighter components making them better at lifting. They are still a bit of a pain to change over to wet function and because of their suction only floor heads a bit of a sore back in the making when sucking out all the water out of the carpet. Amidst the canisters Vax also went into production of carpet shampoos and some Chinese built cordless hand vacs and stick vacs started to appear. If you thought Dirt Devil's cordless Broom was their own design, think again - that design was actually by Vax and it wasn't a particularly well thought out cordless "vacuum" by any means.

Vax did try an upright vacuum but it was largely unsuccessful because Vax tried to put a water tank on it to make it in the same way as their canisters, known as the "New Wave". The tank leaked and on dry pick up only whilst the vacuum was okay at performance a lack of sales and some problems with plastic build quality rendered the model useless. We had a Vax canister for 19 years and it is still going, now given to a friend of mine who owns a shop and adores the dust capacity. However bought brand new it was solely used for washing carpets. Whilst it was good and better than anything on the market (Vax successfully won/ took Hoover UK to court over infringement and copying with their Aquawash canisters) at 12kg it's a mighty heavy old canister vac that due to its height fell over quite a few too many times.

Around 1990 Vax entered a partnership with Dirt Devil U.S brand as the UK brand of Dirt Devil was owned by another private party and had very little associations with the U.S company. As such Vax became best selling because it was churning out the paper pleated cone fitted cyclonic uprights and cylinders thanks to Dirt Devil - almost all of their cylinder and uprights have been Dirt Devil designs including the awful Swift uprights (I had one!) and this was based on what is currently selling as the "Dirt Devil Breeze" series.

Now their new 30th Anniversary models are exactly as Mole describes - they are the re-hashed Hoover Mach models and only differences are tooling and of course the name. Whilst I don't condone badge engineering, Vax aren't a particularly good company in my experience and their new TTi merger can only be of good news to keep sales afloat rather than be unique, which they once were thanks to their ingenious original canister vac in the UK.

Confusingly, Hoover UK also have a series of Dirt Devil uprights as their own models.

VacmanUK:

Do you know the VAX sales numbers/VAX percent of new vacuum sales per annum?  From perusing the internet, VAX models appear to be in all the major UK retailers with a larger presence than dyson.  What conclusions should we draw of the wider VAX product line availability?

Post script:  I don't see any VAX refurbs on the internet for sale.  What conclusion/comments should we draw on the lack of VAX refurbs for sale? 

Carmine D.

hey are in a larger abundance because:

1) Dyson were never a catalogue / home shopping brand but went head first into mass sales, a fact that is documented in Dyson's Book. Thus, Vax spares and models are high up in the catalogues and a proportion of UK buyers still prefer the idea of paying by week or monthly /Hire Purchase deals than buying an appliance outright. This is how Vax has become more wider known for buyers on a budget.

2) Vax are cheap and cheerful; they do their job and most models are cheap to buy and run and whilst they break easily; some customers wont think twice when value for money comes to mind and would probably buy another Vax again based purely on price; supermarkets here also sell a high proportionate amount of Vax models too.

3) From perusing the internet, visit www.ebay.co.uk Here are the current statistics:
For Dyson there are 917 vacuums for sale and in that list there are obvious reconditioned models or as you put it, refurbs also included.

For Vax the number is 856 which Im sure you'd agree isn't that far off from Dyson on Ebay.co.uk

For Oreck the number is far less at 217, Miele at 84 and Sebo at just 67.

Now for refurbs in the UK EBay is one of the highest sellers.

Frankly Carmine, you don't need rocket science to work out that despite Dyson being the more popular, Vax are also as popular and yet have a high proportion of refurbs on sale.

However I dont see why you need refurb info to assume that by having that data it necessarily points to poor reliability or otherwise?

http://www.which.co.uk/reviews/vacuum-cleaners

This currently shows that there are three models in the Vax family under Which? UK's consumer reliability records as being the best. No prizes for guessing that the ones featured just happen to be Hoover's Mach series, albeit TTi and not the previous Dirt Devils that Vax still sell, here in the UK.

Let's see if I can recap your data into a synopsis of salient points:

• VAX is a popular selling brand of vacuums in the UK and has been for 30 years.
• VAX has widespread availability in all the UK retailers.
• VAX models rate highly with WHICH?
• VAX is marketed to the budget minded and frugal consumers as an alternative to higher priced vacuums.
• VAX is reliable and worthy enough to warrant a substantial resale market in refurbs rather than meet with a junk dump fate.

In summary, as a mass marketed and sold vacuum brand VAX competes equally on all accounts with the bagless brand that is the UK icon and in first place for yearly new vacuum sales.  As well, as Electrolux which is in second place.  Did I miss anything?

Carmine D.

VAX was the best selling vacuum cleaner in the UK from 1987 thru 1993, selling 80,000 machines on average every month in 1989.  When the River Severn flooded near VAX hqtrs, VAX staff helped residents to clean up with the VAX.  Nice piece of VAX vacuum history.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
This fact I didn't know until now - nice PR opportunity!

Spot on there Carmine, however for some buyers having a rebadged vacuum that's made by someone else just won't do.

When I had my vacuum store [over 42 years], I was amazed at the number of customers who came in and didn't know the name of their vacuums and/or were wrong with the names they thought. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

HI CARMINE

Nothing has changed.....but what really blows me away is when they dont know if they have an upright or canister.....or the color....gotta love it.

turtle1

How right you are 'turtle1."  Men were the worse.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

HI CARMINE

So true..but i wouldnt have it any other way....lightens up things on a busy day.....hard to beat a good  laugh with a customer.

turtle1

Actually Carmine having a look at your salient points there is some truth in them and some not so near enough the truth. For example;

Point one - Vax is a popular selling brand of vacuums in the UK and has been for 30 years.

Only in terms of its canister tub vacuums which are completely different to the uprights - the sales of their canisters were hit badly when Numatic's Henry came onto the market in a domestic version and fully internationally available from 1990 onwards. Consumers only bought Vax canisters because of their carpet shampoo patent; Electrolux and Hoover et al remained more popular for compact sledge pull along cylinders and upright vacuums.

Point two - Vax has widespread availability in all the UK retailers - yes completely true but unlike Hoover and Electrolux, Vax have limited models in UK retailers so you can't always get the same model and research on one you want may be difficult.

Point three - Current Vax models from the TTi era (recent) have not been rated Highly on all grounds of performance but in terms of the models Vax had initially before their involvement with Dirt Devil, they rated poorly on performance by Which?.

Point four - If Vax was solely marketed towards the budget minded / frugal consumers, their new Mach series from Hoover U.S wouldn't be so highly overpriced. Current Mach 7 costs around £200 which puts it into Sebo/Miele and Dyson terriotory. Other cylinder vacs in their family are also too over priced for what you're getting; compared to Vax rivals.

Point Five - Most Vax canisters are reliable because they are BAGGED; the bagless Dirt Devil inspired designs have had less reliability due to the main wear parts, those awful paper cone filters and clogging not to mention brittle plastic quality.

And my point on VAX history and the Severn River?

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Perhaps you did get 1 correct.

Still dancing the pay toilet shuffle.  No perhaps about it. 

Carmine D.

MM i dont think sucking water out of offices would make many consumers buy a Vax upright vac these days, maybe to promote their wash canisters, but thats about it!

Sunday I walked into the Church and noticed a pronounced smell of coffee.  Not unusual to smell but more so than normal.  After making a quick visit to the sanctuary and the Tabernacle, I headed right into the Church kitchen.  There was the Hospitality gal and a youngster looking perplexed and frustrated.  Apparently the 3 huge coffee urns, commercial size, were brewing and the person making the coffee forgot to ensure the handle spickets were closed.  One was open.  Fresh brewed coffee everywhere.  Counters, floor.  Guess what I used to get the bulk of it up before Mass started in 30 minutes?  I was the proverbial hero.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
I give up – did you use a straw?

Agreed, you’re the proverbial hero to an audience of one…  you.  Humble too.  After this heroism and “saving the day” did you then twirl your straw and safely place it back into your holster?  Good goin cowboy, now the townsfolk can sleep safe.


DIB

P.S.  Perhaps your role-playing cohorts here will be mighty impressed too…  being the [their] proverbial cowboy hero.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Close DIB:  Be more specific:  Paper or plastic straw?  

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:
Straws do not work for Carmine.  Too much spewing out of the mouth (and another body orifice). If the truth be known he probably slipped and absorbed the coffee in his clothing.  At least the coffee stayed hot from all the hot air he spews.

HS:

LIke DIB, you have no appreciation for the truth because you hide behind lies.  Too bad.  There is much more to the Sunday event that you will never know and appreciate.  Remember, if you can, that you never find glory by looking for it.  It comes when you least expect it.  And it is always by self-sacrificing for others and not by self-serving at the expense of others.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
You keep stealing lines.  Your deed was not so great to others reading here.  Like so many of your other boastful feats.

HS:

I never said the deed was great.  That's for others to decide.  I said you don't find glory by looking for it.  It comes when you don't expect it.  How?  Glory is achieved by self-sacrificing for others and not self-serving for yourself at the expense of others.  Since you don't know the Sunday story, you can't judge what the outcome and results are.  You're out of the loop, as they say.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Why don't you share the whole story with us? Being your usual self you only tell enough to try and boost your ego.  Which by the way exceeds your exagerations. 

Answer the question I posed in the original post sincerely and I will be happy to share the rest of the story.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

I already answered it.  You busted your ash and mopped the floor with your clothes.

As usual HS, wrong.  Too bad. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Does anyone really care?

Only if you let 300 cups of coffee spill over evrywhere. 

Carmine D.

Mm interesting reviews appearing on Amazon.co.uk - it seems that not even the Mach 7 on average can get a five full star rating and that's from (what I've read up on just now) consumers who have either had Dyson or considered Vax before Dyson.

CarmineD wrote:
When your rip all-things-Dyosn...  would this be self-sacrificing or self-serving?

DIB 

CarmineD wrote: HARDSELL wrote:
HS, you’ve got me laughing.  I don't read them all, but these last few "exchanges" are pretty funny.

DIB:

Sir James has made a career, at least up to now, out of reinventing existing technology, not enhancing it, and charging a huge premium for it.  If you proclaim this as technologically innovative you have as much comical chutzpah as Sir James by declaring Air Multiplier fans as bladeless and charging $300.  Such overstated claims are self-serving because they are untrue.  If the self-server impugns others for disclosing the untruth, then he/she/it is the perpetrator of a lie [albeit hiding under the disguise of righteousness].  That is, indeed, no laughing matter.  Except perhaps to the evil one. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
I think that by blade-less they mean that it's not at the fan opening as is the most case with most fans.   As a student of physics, surely you enjoy seeing demonstrations of fluid mechanics principles.   This is the kind of silly thing that can spark interest in science by children who wonder where the fan blades are. 

 While it's not practical enough to be sold at a vacuum store, once can appreciate invention for the sake of invention.  I certainly agree with you that  $300 is a ridiculous price for a fan.  However, put the application in a military or medical setting, and perhaps there's something there.  The market will decide if there's an application for this product. 

Severus wrote:

Hello Severus:

Agree.  In fact Roomba did this with its robotics.  For 10 years it made robotic bomb detectors and detonators for the military before applying the same principles to household robotic vacuums.  When it did, Roomba sold over 500,000 robotic vacuums in just 6 months of launch in October 2002.   

Wonder what happened to the all the buzz about the dyson robotic that was floated here by the dyson  "insiders" in the know.  M00seUK had it right in 2004 when he said it was probably too late for dyson to enter this market.  Roomba had the lock on it from the get go.  In business it's not just about the product and price.  It's about market timing.  Dyson was too late.

Carmine D.

Severus wrote:

Ah yes, the Venturi effect.

CarmineD wrote:


Hi Carmine,

Is this the way a vacuum's sprayer attachment operates?

Venson

Venson wrote:

EUREKA!  Perfect example. 

Carmine D.