Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

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Venson wrote:

HI VENSON

I see your point...and very well made at that. ....so true.

turtle1

retardturtle1 wrote:

Hello Venson, 'turtle1:"

The economics of the market place dictate the prices of the products, whether dyson likes it or not.  This is especially true [as you pointed out Venson] in the current economic downturn.  Dyson chose the big box rip off stores as the primary sales venue for dyson products.  Then proceeded year after year to increase its prices of the latest dyson vacuums brought to market.  In a downward spiraling economy?  Globally!  A formula for product sales disaster [even if the products were worth the price and there is considerable proven evidence they are not]. 

Look at the facts:  In 2002, dyson's flagship upright model DC07 All Floors had an MSRP of $439 and quickly dropped to $399 with many retailers offering 10-15-20 off.  The market set the prices at  $321-$360.  Still high for big box rip off stores but consumers were spending freely with a euphoria of perceived wealth from easy credit card buying with delayed and interest free payments, stock value appreciations and skyrocketing home appreciation values. 

Fast forward to 2009.  World of difference.  Record breaking house foreclosures, record high unemployment rates, ever tightening credit, and a severe stock market slump.  Dyson's latest and greatest DC28 is priced at $600, the next lower model is a DC27 [a regurgitated DC17] is $479.  Even with 10-15-20 percent off, these models range from a lo end of $360 to a hi end of $480.  Much too high for the buyers in the market place [big box retail stores] to bear in the current economic conditions that began in the fall of 2007 and continued worsening up thru and including the foreseeable future.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Those rip off big box stores thrive on Flip floppers like you.   FLIP FLOP FLIP FLOP FLIP FLOP.

Hello HS:

Flip, flap, flip, flap, flip, flap.   Your lips are moving but you aren't saying anything to dispute the facts of my post.  Own up for once here and admit that dyson did itself in with bad judgment and poor timing.

To make the connection of my last post to the thread topic, dyson made the same missteps with its handhelds as its uprights.  In 2006, dyson introduced a  DC16 handheld for $150-$200.  At the time, the highest price for a handheld on the market.  It is by all measures a failed product totally unworthy of its price.  Even at $80 it is unworthy.  At least dyson hit the market at the right time despite the poor product performance. 

Fast forward to the present and the worse time for bringing an expensive handheld to market.  What does dyson do?  Launch a $220-$270 handheld.  Dyson just doesn't get it!  The same failed past practices get the same bad results.   

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

My topic was you and not Dyson.  You flip around telling all about the great sales at big box stores.  Then you flop around and call the big box stores rip offs.

Fish flip flop when removed from water.  You have smelled fiushy for a long time.

Hello HS:

You're jealous of me here because I know and appreciate all the facets of the vacuum industry: Indys and big box rip off stores.  And I have reliable knowlegeable connections in both venues.  Like you and your lawn mower shop only me with vacuums rather than lawn mowers. 

BTW, thank you for making me the subject of your posts here rather than the vacuum products and retailers who sell them.  I'm honored to be so important. 

Now, do you have anything else to say about my post and dyson's ill fated product/marketing strategy at the big box rip off stores?  Or just more of your lips going flip flap flip flap.

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

HS:

You smell your fave vacuum brand going down the toilet.  Like DIB look before you flush!

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Actually Carmine I don't recall mentioning anything about a real comparison. All I said was that in reflection to what Dyson's hand held offers the B&D is lower powered. I'd still consider it over the Dyson in terms of it's general design. Infact in terms of Dyson's pricing consumers in the last three years have bought nothing else but the Dyson hand held certainly here in the UK and it has nothing to do with brand preference; many UK buyers felt let down when Dyson shifted manufacture to Asia leaving the UK out in the cold. Sadly even though it may well be expensive; buyers will get what they think is the best, regardless of the price.

Hello Vacmanuk:

Which? made the comparison of these the two brands/models: B&D Flexi handheld and dyson DC31.  James Dyson made the comparison of the B&D pivot handheld and DC31.  Both comparisons have their limitations.  Something Consumer Reports appreciates when comparing handhelds. 

WRT consumers buying what they believe is the best regardless of the price...........I concur..... UNLESS the price is way too high for the category of products.  Then they think twice, three and four times before purchasing.  Dyson's DC31 for $220-$270 falls into that category, IMHO.  You may very well be right with consumers and a DC16 at $150-$200.  Some, not many, consumers would buy at that price IF they believed a DC16 is really better.  It's fair and correct to say that dyson launched the DC31 in large part as an improvement of its DC16.  Sadly, customers burned by the purchase of a DC16, like you, would be the likely consumers to buy and now are hard pressed to buy a new improved version [as promised by dyson] for almost $100 more.  Even if they had money to burn, and I can't imagine many handheld consumers fall into that category.   Too many other handhelds, like B&D, on the market, just as good or better, at less money.  And just as importantly, other vacuum options too at $220-$270.  Consumers will most probably say rather than limiting my options with a $250 handheld, buy a full size vacuum that has tools to accomodate the cleaning needs of a handheld. 

Dyson may very well be counting on the new brushless motor to warrant the exorbitant price of its DC31 and the increase in price over a Dc16.  I wouldn't and don't.  Customers are not impressed with hyped technologies that don't have a direct effect on product performance when the price is considerably higher than the competition.  A cleaner exhaust on a handheld is not a riveting improvement for the environment and users.  Not when it runs for 5-10 minutes at a time and is a handheld vacuum.

Carmine D. 

Carmine
Some good thoughts here; however neither of us are in a position to truly judge what the world are buying and certainly when I worked for Which? (Many years ago and found them to be flawed because companies like Hoover and Vax went to the bother of blackmail money to promote their products), there tended to be a balance between what is in the market already (existing) and newer products claiming to do a task better.

I hear what you are saying about how Dyson has a cheek to charge more money for what is effectively a slight improvement but it's not as if it's an industry where marketing and design go hand in hand ALONE; each time a car manufacturer announces a facelift it raises the prices accordingly and owners of the older model are forced to think if they really should go to the bother of replacing their existing model with a new one. I can think of a perfect example at the moment such as Volvo's new C30...(I have a C70!)

If what you are saying is entirely correct then most buyers then would be buying the best Miele vacuum money can buy; yet the best selling model in many European countries is their S5 Cat and Dog model as it comes with different floorheads against the high flying Revolution model and as you know that comes with an electric power head. The same could be applied to many other brands where the most expensive isn't the best. However in terms of actual brands this thought can be easily reversed; high end products in the Electrolux range (UK where we have Eureka models, Boss and anything else under the U.S Umbrella marketed purely as an Electrolux) tend to be better made than the cheap end of the market and buyers don't always buy on the best suction but models that have a generally overall and universal appeal based on many merits such as weight, noise, ease of emptying and so on.

I don't however see your point when comparing a full size vacuum cleaner with a hand held, regardless of the price. What will happen when the user may need to clean something high up? Balance the upright/cylinder on a chair? Cordless hand helds will never replace main size vacuums so it is a bit unfair to suggest so and in some ways you seem to miss the fact that cordless hand helds have slightly different cleaning tasks compared to full size vacuums. At least try and compare like with like to emphasize your argument.

At the end of the day with the variety of products on offer, Dyson has every right to charge whatever price the company feels but the company are not alone in doing this.

"...Customers are not impressed with hyped technologies that don't have a direct effect on product performance when the price is considerably higher than the competition.."

That same statement could well be applied to the Kirby vacuums that are £1000 in the UK and remain the highest and most expensive vacuum we can buy domestically. However in my mind it is not the best for smaller countries and at its weight and numerous attachments that most UK buyers seldom use, the Kirby cleaning system is a bit of a waste of money unless you're literally sucked in by all the marketing that goes with it.