Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Since I have been coming to this site I have seen bickering about Dyson, Hoover and a few other brands. But to me it is why is this industry important and why all the different brands and models. My feeling is that they are necessary to maintain a way of life. Cleanliness, health, and just plain keeping everything nice. We started with dirt floors, went to rock and wood floors. Floors were kept up with brooms for hundreds of years. With the advent of electricity the vacuum cleaner came along  with elecrtic motors.

Just so you know , I am aware of the types of early sweepers from the late 1800's.

So the question I put to you is why is it so important to be a bagless society of Dyson? Why Bagged? Why a particular brand over another? Give me and anyone that comes to this site some answers as to why and how is one better than another?

I am watching and listening.                                                                  Procare           54 years in the business and still going strong.

          

Procare:

WRT bagless and bagged vacuums: When we came up through the vacuum ranks, cloth bags were the norm and paper bags were being introduced and used on some models.  While I was a paper proponent from the beginning, I never discouraged cloth if customers insisted.  And many did.  You remember the reusable paper in the HOOVER uprights 60/61/and 62.  Waste of time and money.  Not HOOVER's best hour.

I classify today's bagless in the same category as yester year's cloths.  Same benefits and drawbacks.  Cost factors are the same, dumping the same, smells and odors are the same.  More attention needed for the pre and post motor filters.  Bagless is a fad.  Paper bags are here to stay.  Convenience of not dumping daily is a commodity that people will always pay to get.  Bags provide it.

Back to the dyson bickering:  Dyson's biggest failure, if you can call it that, is its inability to persuade vacuum users that bagless is better.  After 7 plus years of telling customers how bad bags are and how much better bagless are, paper is still the predominant media of dirt collection among the better vacuum products made and sold:  MIELE, SEBO, LINDHAUS, ORECK, KIRBY, RICCAR/SIMPLICITY, AERUS to name the top selling indy/door-to-door brands.

Carmine D. 

Its all about lifestyles and making things easier for the folk! I remember my gran with her washing machine that had a basin at the bottom. Now everything is electric, you no longer need to collect the dirty water because the machine does it for you.

She also owned a very effective and robust Ewbank (UK built) mechanical carpet sweeper before she ever considered a vacuum cleaner again and to replace her old rusty mechanical sweeper she bought a mains corded, Chinese built carpet sweeper which I adored. It was blocky, functional and built to last even though most owners in the UK really thumped them about. To catch the dirt, there was a little cloth bag that covered the main dust channel and all you did was shake it out and give it wash every now and then. Simple. Effective and very easy to keep over time. For her, the premise of a mains corded, no suction but motor power brush roll meant it was easier for her to glide on the floors than getting her main upright vacuum cleaner out. Mains corded electric sweepers were therefore judged purely on the lighter aspect making machinery better and more versatile for the needs of the consumer.

The reason to why there are so many brands now and types is different lifestyles and market forces. It has nothing to do with the thought that why should we have these machines when a carpet sweeper was completely effective? People can't be bothered to remove their rugs to beat outside with a stick anymore; certainly the wet weather in the UK has stopped all washing to be hung out. Times have changed and for the better!

Dyson haven't failed on any inability to sell the idea of bagless; the point isn't just that it stops purchasing of bags, but that the 100% suction (and we all know that after a time it doesn't function but I rather think most owners over use their Dysons to a point of obsession as well as using them for outlandish applications to see if they work, like vacuuming the garden!) is still 100% when the bin is packed full of dust. This is why I like Dyson; I don't care very much for the oodles of different models; I do like the idea of the 100% suction "all the time," rather than realising the dust bag is coming to an end thanks to little suction coming out of the hose or on other bagless rivals that the main filter has to be tapped clean i.e. coming into contact with dust. Hoover in the 1990s tried to copy Dyson and failed but they did introduce clear plastic bags to line the bins of their Vortex uprights which kind of missed the point completely regarding the use and purchase / necessity of extra consumables.

In my opinion though Dyson went a bit too far promoting his technology and priced his first offerings too high. If only his first uprights DC01 (not the pink Japanese horrors) that went "mass production" had a sealed internal toothed belt similar to Sebo, it would have made better sense than reverting to the old ways of rubber drive belts, thus allowing the consumer to do very little to the actual vacuum cleaner when it went wrong aside from de-clogging or cleaning the filters.

Hello vacuum gurus.

Heres my take on this industry. I know i sound like Venson  but here goes, The way things are in todays economy the person or consumer is looking for the best bang for the buck,

These people are getting tired of  broken promises and iffy claims by manufactures,suppliers,dealers,wholesalers, This whole business has turned into a ponzi scheme,
 I for one refuse to play that game,Hence business has been GREAT better than ever,

As most of you know we hit real hard on service and repairs and parts availability,this is where the sales only concerns are really lacking,

With most manufactures parts,and service training is put on the back burner or even non existant,To them its not inportant,Well quess what this way of thinking has now bitten them in the behind.
I for one are glad that they are now being exposed for what they really are,WANNABES

Example, Should the whole high tech latest high winding vortex motors be replaced because the carbons have worn out? Or a $3.00 bearing has gone away,

The consumers that seek out the industry pros are not afraid of laying out the cash they just to be treated right and taken care of when the time comes.

regards

MOLE

mole wrote:

Thanks MOLE.  Glad to hear business is booming.

HARDSELL:  Note the highlighted part of MOLE's post.  Do you get it yet?

Much has been said about consumers avoiding the high price vacuums at the big box retailers BECAUSE of the bad economic conditions.  That may be true.  But many consumers with the do re me are shopping and buying at the indy's because they are tired of educating big box store staff in the products they are selling.  Oftentimes these sales people say things about the products that are blatantly untrue and wrong.  It's biting them in the butt too.  Consumers are returning to the retailers for refunds and credits.  Retailers are returning to the makers.  Oops there goes another refurb.

Carmine D.

procare wrote:
Why Dyson (society?) over bagged...

Dyson can guarantee No Loss of Suction (strength) for a period of time (1 month to many years).  There is not a bag vac manufacturer or a bag manufacturer (including the mighty 3M) that can give this guarantee.

Dyson owners like the convenience and/or looking at how much they have collected in their clear bins vice a concealed bag.

Dyson owners enjoy not having to locate and the costs associated with collection bags and/or filters.

Dyson Ball owners like having more maneuverability-choices/flexibility when saddled with the chore of vacuuming.

Dyson owns broad patents on the Ball, and only Dyson has the legal right to manufacturer this type of steering (best in the world steering) vacuum cleaners.

Dyson owns broad patents on the Core + Root filtration and only Dyson has the legal right to manufacturer these type of separators (best in the world filtration w/DDM) vacuum cleaners.

Dyson DDM DC22 owners enjoy having what looks to be the strongest suctioning, smallest footprint canister in the world vacuum cleaner.

Dyson owners enjoy the connivence of quick bin dumping (although they have not figured out or been taught how to [mostly] eliminate the dust plume, a shame).


DIB

So DIB, what's your explaination for all the dyson refurbs?  If new dyson sales are going back to retailers and dyson sells them on its Web Site AND there are hundreds of pages of them on the internet something's wrong!  Give us your insight as to why.

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

BULL.  I just repaired a 4 year old DC07 animal used once/twice a week tops and it needed a new post-motor filter.  $40 bucks.  And the pre-motor filter [$20] was shakey.  Could have been replaced.  $20.

Carmine D.

DIB:

I can tear apart each of the silly points you made about dysons with incontrovertible proof.  I choose only one, probably the biggest dyson selling myth propagated:  No cost for bags and lifetime filters.  Yeah, right!  I'll spare others here reading my redundancy just to prove you wrong again and again.  You refuse and ignore the truth about dyson.  It's no better than any other big box outsourced brand made vacuum on the market today, bagged/bagless.  Just much more expensive [at least for now but prices are dropping].  Sooner or later you'll gat your head out of James' butt and you'll have to come to terms with the truth about your fave brand.  Mediocre performance at best at exorbitant prices.

Carmine D.

Thanks Vacmanuk:

I enjoyed your post.  Reminded me too that I still have several very old, just like me, cordless carpet sweepers.  A few date back before the turn of the Century: 20th.  They all work marvelously.  And still look pretty good too for their age and use.  Great conversation pieces.  Young/old these war horses of  a by-gone era in our history are the talk and interest of all who see and use.

Carmine D.

Hello Venson:

Thanks for your insights on the vacuum industry.  We share many of the same perspectives on vacuums, the industry and most importantly the vacuum consumers.  Most vacuum buyers/users, like my engineer friend and her dyson, could care less about the patents and 500 engineers.  They want to turn it on, use it, put away and move on with the busy-ness of their lives and families.  Only when they can't, like her, do they care about their vacuums.

After I demoed the dyson's finer points of care and use, she was very quiet.  I waited for a response.  Carmine, she said, in 4 years you can expect another call to do another service on my dyson.  I just smiled.  At my age, it's always nice to have something to look forward to.    Before you get the wrong idea, she makes wonderful lasagna.  A lost art in today's world. 

Carmine D.