Vacuum Cleaners Discussions |
|
procare
Joined: Jul 16, 2009
Points: 192
![]()
|
 |
What makes the vacuum cleaner inustry so important?
Original Message Sep 4, 2009 1:20 pm |
|
Since I have been coming to this site I have seen bickering about Dyson, Hoover and a few other brands. But to me it is why is this industry important and why all the different brands and models. My feeling is that they are necessary to maintain a way of life. Cleanliness, health, and just plain keeping everything nice. We started with dirt floors, went to rock and wood floors. Floors were kept up with brooms for hundreds of years. With the advent of electricity the vacuum cleaner came along with elecrtic motors. Just so you know , I am aware of the types of early sweepers from the late 1800's. So the question I put to you is why is it so important to be a bagless society of Dyson? Why Bagged? Why a particular brand over another? Give me and anyone that comes to this site some answers as to why and how is one better than another? I am watching and listening. Procare 54 years in the business and still going strong. |
DysonInventsBig
Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454
![]()
|
 |
Re: What makes the vacuum cleaner inustry so important?
Reply #102 Sep 11, 2009 4:38 pm |
|
Severus (and not Venson),  Re: Hard workers. Well, at least we agree on something… the lack of 100% integrity coming from many vacuum cleaner independent dealers. You did not describe the greatest attribute amongst men, that is - “integrity” - and rightfully so. Many of these hard workers are only as honest as needed. Hard workers + less than 100% integrity = A drag on society. I can picture a conversation going like this… Hello, I’d like you to meet my friend who is a hard worker and can be trusted 80% of the time. Cons are friends with cons. Thieves are friends with thieves. The self-serving are friends with the self-serving and on and on. You’re a loyal friend to these “hard workers”. Re: “their customers”. When these hard workers move people into products they carry and profit from (becoming “their customers”) by unfairly and untruthfully bad-mouthing or doing junk science demo’s against their competitor’s products, it ain’t much of a business now is it? These types deserve what they get… to work their butts off and for little. DIB So now it's unfair to pit a Dyson against other brands in head to head tests because the Dyson will look bad? Please explain. I'm afraid that i have a difficult time following the logic of your rants against independent small business persons. You impugn their integrity with no explanation. You make the faulty assumption that its a mistake for anyone to buy anything but a Dyson. Absolute hogwash. A good salesman sells the consumer the product that best meets their needs. Certainly Dysons are good matches for some people, but for many people they are not. It's amusing that you think Dyson products are above criticism. No product is above criticism. The higher the price, the greater our expectations should be as consumers. James Dyson is as much a salesman as he is an inventor. He wrote his autobiography, to make sure that his story was told the way he wanted it told - No different than the US politicians who write books about themselves - to put themselves in the best light possible. There are certainly many positives to say about James and his products. However, those of us with open minds can see flaws in his products as well. Severus (and not Venson), No, you cannot rewrite my history (create a pseudo-history), because it is already public (documented). I’ve said plenty on how I applaud small business owners, the risks and the courage it takes to go it alone. I’ve also said plenty that many and certainly NOT ALL vacuum independents are dirty. Many (not all) are envious too. Am I a shrink? No. - Their Dyson bellyaching and whining screams jealousy. [In house, independent] “Test?” No. A forgone conclusion? Yes. He who controls the pseudo-”tests” also controls the pseudo-”results.” In your many decades of vacuum enthusiasm and internet prowess, you could surely link here a “test” by an independent (by name and city) that demonstrates (by way of measurements) wether Dyson filters as advertised and wether bags choke as Dyson advertises. DIB P.S. If you cannot get a video linked showing a Dyson v. bag filtration test, surely one of the 200 or so collectors or one of North Americans 18,000 or so independents could belly up with said test.
|
Severus
If my vacuum can remove even one spec of dirt that yours misses, then mine is better than yours - even if there's no proof that mine would have picked up as much dirt as yours...
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 397
![]()
|
|
|
Re: What makes the vacuum cleaner inustry so important?
Reply #104 Sep 11, 2009 5:22 pm |
|
Severus (and not Venson), No, you cannot rewrite my history (create a pseudo-history), because it is already public (documented). I’ve said plenty on how I applaud small business owners, the risks and the courage it takes to go it alone. I’ve also said plenty that many and certainly NOT ALL vacuum independents are dirty. Many (not all) are envious too. Am I a shrink? No. - Their Dyson bellyaching and whining screams jealousy. [In house, independent] “Test?” No. A forgone conclusion? Yes. He who controls the pseudo-”tests” also controls the pseudo-”results.” In your many decades of vacuum enthusiasm and internet prowess, you could surely link here a “test” by an independent (by name and city) that demonstrates (by way of measurements) wether Dyson filters as advertised and wether bags choke as Dyson advertises. DIB P.S. If you cannot get a video linked showing a Dyson v. bag filtration test, surely one of the 200 or so collectors or one of North Americans 18,000 or so independents could belly up with said test.
Now we're getting somewhere - you've provided one source of your confusion. The primary function of a vacuum cleaner isn't to maintain suction; it is to remove dirt from the rug. You accuse independents of using deception, yet the test you advocate is a deception. You fail to understand that a vacuum performs using both air flow/suction and agitation. The nozzle design is also important. Bagged vacuums continue to be effective as the bag fills with dirt. If bags clogged as Dyson suggests, they would actually blow up once all of the pores were filled. Yet, that doesn't happen in practice in normal household conditions. There are documented cases of users neglecting to empty bags until the bag is completely filled and the dirt fill tube is completely clogged. How could this happen if bagged vacuums are supposed to lose all cleaning ability when they are less than 1/2 full?
Using your definition of dirty, James Dyson is a dirty con man. He only tells part of the story. Certainly he focuses on the advantages of his vacuums - just as his competitors do. He is no better than they are. His vacuums have many weaknesses, and an honest independent salesman will gladly point them out to you.
The smart tyrant writes his own story to ensure that it is favorable. The lazy will repeat lines from the book without fact checking.
|
DysonInventsBig
Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454
![]()
|
|
|
Re: What makes the vacuum cleaner inustry so important?
Reply #109 Sep 14, 2009 12:12 pm |
|
Why Dyson (society?) over bagged... Dyson can guarantee No Loss of Suction (strength) for a period of time (1 month to many years). There is not a bag vac manufacturer or a bag manufacturer (including the mighty 3M) that can give this guarantee. Dyson owners like the convenience and/or looking at how much they have collected in their clear bins vice a concealed bag. Dyson owners enjoy not having to locate and the costs associated with collection bags and/or filters. Dyson Ball owners like having more maneuverability-choices/flexibility when saddled with the chore of vacuuming. Dyson owns broad patents on the Ball, and only Dyson has the legal right to manufacturer this type of steering (best in the world steering) vacuum cleaners.<BR><BR>Dyson owns broad patents on the Core + Root filtration and only Dyson has the legal right to manufacturer these type of separators (best in the world filtration w/DDM) vacuum cleaners. Dyson DDM DC22 owners enjoy having what looks to be the strongest suctioning, smallest footprint canister in the world vacuum cleaner. Dyson owners enjoy the convenience of quick bin dumping (although they have not figured out or been taught how to [mostly] eliminate the dust plume, a shame).
DIB
MM some interesting statements there, DIB.
Dyson can guarantee No Loss of Suction for a lifetime, dependent on the maintenance that the owner puts in for caring for their machine. This doesn't mean that after three years if the filters haven't been touched owners can moan about why their vacuum isn't picking up the way it should. People have become lazy which is why the bagless idea works well - no need to get out of your house and find bag replacements. Bags work differently because they all clog with dust but some are different from others because of their sealing textures (cue Miele and Sebo) so can last longer than standard 2 ply paper bags.
And filters by Dyson have to be replaced eventually so there are not always 'lifetime guaranteed" again dependent largely on the matter of dust picked up per owner and their homes. This is why Dyson filters are washable but even the most washed filter can begin to lose its strength compared to one that hasn't been tainted.
Not all Dyson owners like to see what they have collected. Would you like a see through toilet in your home? I know I wouldn't! How convenient is it really to see what you have picked up from your carpet?
As for the patents, let Dyson have as many as they wish. The strongest suction is all very well on hard flooring but I wonder just how much pull a Dyson has in terms of destroying actual carpet textures coupled with an additional brush bar?
Dyson owners may well enjoy the convience of quick bin dumping but most report (in reviews especially) that clouds of dust re-enter the homes or their lungs. How healthy is that? In this respect despite the older reliance, paper bags are better for keeping all that dust in. VacuumUK, Re: Clear bin: Well, you’re nit picking. Here’s some nit-picking back-at-ya…. Where are the studies and what percentages of Dyson owners dislike the clear bin? I would question the intelligence or logic behind owning a clear bin Dyson and then disliking what it does – show’s users the results of Dyson-filtration/Dyson ownership, when the bin is full/time to empty, etc. Sir James Dyson tells the story of the focus group debacle - when this group denounced his clear bin before launching the first Dyson. And he also enjoys telling his dislike and distrust of focus groups and enjoys telling how many Dyson owners love the clear bin. I’d guess that the number of clear bins manufactured (copied from Dyson’s design and success) number around 100m worldwide and growing. Dyson not listening to this focus group has made many competing manufacturers rich. Re: Looking before [flushing] emptying: When Sir James was invited to speak at Yale, MIT and Stanford and while speaking at Yale he received a big laugh from the crowd when he said people did indeed like “looking” at what they vacuumed up. He went on to say it was like taking a look before flushing. Everybody (except you?) “looks”, and that’s why it got a big laugh. Re: Patents: Only a fool would become a vacuum manufacturer without strong proprietary patents. Up until the recession, these patents provided (directly or indirectly) Sir James an annual net of around $110m-$120m per year. Re: “clouds of dust re-entering homes or lungs”: Well, this a lame claim. Dyson has filed a lawsuit over Oreck’s deliberately (infomercial) “dusting out a home” when emptying a clear bin. Again, I’d question the intelligence of emptying a clear bin inside a home as Oreck did and as CR does. I’d question the reasoning and logic of emptying inside a home as you suggest. And I’d question the intelligence of not following the example Dyson gives in their instruction’s (using a plastic bag). If vacuum dealers and collectors were as smart and unbiased as they claim, then they would gladly show how a simple water mist lined plastic bag can/will grab much of the floating dust. Re: Bags v. bin dumping: Only because bags choke and leave dirt, dust and debris behind in carpeting’s do folks forgo bag vacuums. I’ve read that 46% of the UK are using bin’s vice bags. DIB Note: Venson (who’s not Severus) - No need to write a reply on deliberately dusting a home when emptying a bin. We’ve had this conversation before.
This message was modified Sep 14, 2009 by DysonInventsBig
|
|
|
